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[JOE]:
This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok session number 458. When you’re in private practice, it can be tough to find the time to review your marketing efforts and make improvements where needed. Whether you are a seasoned clinician whose current website needs to be revamped, or a new therapist building a website for the first time, Brighter Vision is here to help by first, understanding your practice and what makes it unique, Brighter Vision’s team of developers will create you a custom website, catered to your specific marketing goals. Better yet ,they provide unlimited technical support to make sure it stays updated and professional, search engine optimization to make sure you rank high in online searches, all at no additional cost. To get started ,for $100 off, head over to brightervision.com/Joe. Again. That’s brightervisioncom/Joe.

I am so excited that you are here today. I hope that your quarantine time is going well. I know here in the Sanok family, we have maintained our daily walk for, I’ve lost track of the weeks, but we said to our girls that no matter what the weather, we’re going to do a daily walk as a family. And we said this, I first heard it as this kind of sailing term, it might be a camping term, but there’s no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing. Plaid. Ugh, you know, I hear people talk about how it feels like Groundhog’s Day and you know the same day over and over. And so, no matter how you are living your life, I hope that you’re staying strong, hope that you are doing your best to enjoy this time with your family, and have a positive attitude. I know that a lot of people are dealing with a lot of different things out there. But, you know, hopefully this podcast and thinking about your business is a great distraction/goals/way to help you level up. As I mentioned in previous podcasts, I recently was signed as a Harper Collins author for a book I’m working on. Right now, the working title is “Thursday is the new Friday.” And it’s been a lot of fun to really just sort through what do I think about just the way that I do business in regards to how I work three days a week and have four-day weekends, but then work really hard when I do work, and when do you outsource, and slow down to speed up, and looking at a lot of research. There’s just some really cool things out there and I really can’t wait to share it with you as we get more that we’re going to release. So, we’ll let you know as that grows. wanted to let you know though, if you head on over to practiceofthepractice.com/100kwebinar, that’s the number 100k webinar, and we have all sorts of master classes and webinars coming up that we’re going to be doing. The next one is on June 23, at one o’clock Eastern, 12 Central, 11 Mountain, and 10 Pacific. We’re going to be covering everything you need to know about insurance, and billing, and the software you need. We have Jeremy Zug, coming in from Practice Solutions, to take us through what you need to know about insurance and billing, and I’m really excited about that, you can register for that. We’re also going to be releasing at least monthly free master classes to really help you level up your business. So, make sure you register for that, that’s coming up here soon. And today on the podcast, we have Adam and Kerry Anderson, and they’re talking about how they almost killed their family with their business and their business with their family. So, without any further ado, here is Adam and Kerry.

Today on the Practice of the Practice podcast, we have Adam and Kerry Anderson. Adam and Kerry had a business that almost destroyed their marriage and their marriage almost destroyed their business. After 19 companies, two kids, and 16 years, they’ve learned how to use business to empower their family and to have their family provide a reason for the business. Welcome to the Practice the Practice podcast.

[ADAM]:
Thank you so much for having us. We are psyched to be here.

[KERRY]:
Yes, it’s a pleasure.

[JOE]:
Yeah, well you’re psyched because you were doing dance music before I came on here, listening to some Eminem. Which Eminem song were you jamming out to?

[KERRY]:
I don’t remember. It was on a Spotify channel, it just came through and we were just hyping ourselves up for you.

[JOE]:
That is awesome. You know, when Kesha’s song, Blow, comes on, I lose my mind. I swear, like, I actually, so, I bought, for my 40th birthday party, I bought 20 silent disco headphones for a party that we hosted at my house. Have you guys ever done silent disco?

[KERRY]:
I actually, we have, we’ve done them at conferences.

[JOE]:
Awesome. Yeah, so I bought some for our house, and my friend is a DJ. And so, he took that song, Blow, and he added like the Practice of the Practice theme over the top of it and took my voice and spliced it and it was just amazing. So, I knew right away we would get along when you said you’re jamming out before we jumped on the podcast.

[ADAM]:
Everyone needs a DJ friend, he can mix their voice into a song. That should be a requirement. If you don’t have that, make sure you go find them.

[JOE]:
And I mean, he’s a friend who I met him because he’s our neighbor and, when his chickens got out, so his chickens really roaming around and he’s trying to wrangle them. It’s just one of those friendships that just seems like the beginning of a movie that’s gonna lead to ending up in Thailand or something.

[KERRY]:
Yeah, I know, chickens, disco…

[ADAM]:
…and Chiang Mai and Bangkok. That’s how it progresses.

[JOE]:
Yeah, that’s how we roll. Well, so you two have had some businesses, you’ve had some business failures, you’ve had some family failures. I feel like we can start in a lot of spots, but where do you think we should start?

[ADAM]:
Well, I love to talk about the why and usually the why starts from a place of discomfort and pain. So why don’t we start by maybe, kind of filling you guys in on kind of the journey that we’ve taken over the last little while. We can do it quick, make it a three minute or less kind of thing. And maybe that’ll spark the conversation.

[JOE]:
Sure. That sounds awesome.

[KERRY]:
So, Adam and I have been together for what seems like forever. We have owned, run, and closed down, several businesses. And the 14 years or so that we’ve been doing entrepreneurship, and so it’s been quite a ride. And it definitely took its toll on our relationship, on our family. Entrepreneurship has some very, very specific stressors, I believe, that can add to the stress that a family in a relationship are under. And for us, it got really bad. It got really, really ugly. But we did come out the other side. Yay. And we learned a few things and we just have been really, really passionate about sharing those things with other entrepreneurs, and figuring out how to help them create lives of success, without regrets, without turning around one day and wishing you’d gone to, you know, that dance recital, or been able to be there for that parent who got really sick, or had not missed your wife’s birthday, or even if it’s just like living a life of purpose and being able to build a business that really matters to you. So, we’re really super passionate about how best to provide that for other entrepreneurial families like ours.

[JOE]:
I use the term “ugliness” – take us into that ugliness a little bit more, like what were some examples of how things were just not clicking along for you?

[ADAM]:
Well, the one that jumps out, and by the way, that’s a long conversation, but one of the things that jumped out at me is, I was responsible for bringing money into the household at this time in our life, Kerry was at home with kids and I was going off and doing things and we call her the CFO – that’s the Chief Family Officer. So, she was running the house. And, my two-year-old baby boy would call me “Adam”, not “Dad”, because I was gone so much. And I would parent with FaceTime over my phone from, you know, hotel bars, while you know, I’m doing sales calls. And so, the ugliness really got to the point where I was completely obsessed with the business, she was completely obsessed with the family, and we began to resent each other and build really toxic relationships inside of this family. Because we weren’t looking at it from a holistic point of view and when your entire identity is wrapped up in a business, and you’re the man, and you’re making all the things happen, and then you come home and the one person that you want to be a giant fan of yours is not, it’s a real blow. And I’m sure vice versa as well.

[KERRY]:
Yeah, I think for me, it was also that and, you know, there’s always some question about whether we work with entrepreneurial couples who work together or who, where one is the primary entrepreneur and one is not involved at all, or where one is sort of like the boss of the other. And the answer is, uh huh, yes to all of those things. I think that what we do kind of stretches across the board. But, when it was us, I was not very involved in the business at all. So, and in fact, it was like the business was the sun and the rest of us orbited around it. We had to completely build our life around what the business needed and one of the things that it needed was for me to be primarily at home, which meant that I had to give up my own career. I say that like, I don’t mean to martyr myself, I did that, I agreed to that. But at the end of the day, it ended up causing some resentments that I wasn’t expecting and it made me more and more resentful towards Adam, towards the business, we weren’t a priority to each other and it was exactly what he said, it was toxic.

[JOE]:
Wow. What helped? I guess before I say ask what helped? Was there kind of a breaking point where it all came to a head, or was it one of those kind of slow-moving accidents?

[ADAM]:
It was a slow-moving accident, but then it went in fast forward. Right. So, it took a long time to get to the point where we were checking out, but once it was there, it became it was there was definitely a breaking points. I remember Kerry making the call that she had decided not to leave me, and I was like, oh crap.

[JOE]:
I didn’t know that was on the table.

[ADAM]:
Whoa, that escalated quickly.

[KERRY]:
You’re welcome?

[JOE]:
Congratulations.

[ADAM]:
Yay, I have a feeling this is gonna be a longer conversation. But, you know, and so she said I decided not to leave you and I decided to love you, as you are today, but I need you to know that I’m not living this way anymore and I’m going to take steps to, you know, heal and to become the person that I can like again and you’re welcome to join me Adam. Of course, I did not. Kerry went and did some self-work.

[JOE]:
That wasn’t enough for you, what she said? You’re like, I’m gonna keep on going in that direction?

[ADAM]:
Well, you know, logically, we understand things, but our habits, our behaviors, our beliefs, are so ingrained.

[KERRY]:
Our coping mechanisms.

[ADAM]:
Oh my goodness, I had so many unhealthy habits, so many different destructive behaviors that were ingrained and I believed that they were there to keep me safe, but they were the very things that were causing harm. It’s very hard to leave that stuff. But, what did get me was she went and got healthy and was having a great time. And I looked at her for a year, waiting for her to come back to being unhealthy. And she’s like, nope, you’re drowning in the ocean, I’m on the beach. I got a towel laid out next to me, you should totally come and hang out but I’m not going back in the water to drown with you. And she led by example, she led with compassion, she lead with wisdom, and eventually I clued in that there was a better way. And that whole journey, she ended up writing a book called “In Bed with the Business: The Entrepreneurial Spouse’s Survival Guide.” And I gotta tell you, it is not 100% complimentary towards me, but it is true.

[JOE]:
But at least it’s honest.

[ADAM]:
It is honest. And it’s a, and I tell you what, it was a very, very uncomfortable time in our life. But, what it’s taught us, and Kerry, you can jump in and shoot holes in this if you want, but what we have learned is that pretty much no matter how bad it is, we can get through it.

[KERRY]:
And also, what the other thing that we learned is that, and we really genuinely had no idea, that we’re not the only ones. So, after I wrote the book, it became more and more apparent that this lifestyle has a particular set of stressors. And that it’s really hard for us to get the right kind of help, because people don’t fully understand those stressors and what they mean for an entrepreneur and their family.

[JOE]:
Yeah, sort of reminds me of the book, The Scream Free Marriage, I forgot the guy’s name who wrote it, but he said that relationships like a campfire because oftentimes you hear well, I want my spouse to change so I change, or I’m gonna change so that my spouse changes, but he makes the point that if you change one element of a campfire, it changes the entire dynamic. So, if you stop putting wood on it, or you stop giving it oxygen, it changes and it may change for the better for the worse but, if one person goes to the beach, you know, like you did Kerry, that disrupts Adam’s world, and he then has to make a choice of do I want to stay separate from that beach? Do I want to stay where I’m at? Do I want to kind of explore that and work through it? And you’re just saying, I need to find a healthier version of myself and I hope you come along with me.

[KERRY]:
Yeah, exactly. There were some times when I looked in the mirror and I really could not blame him for wanting to be on the road 100% of the time, because I was a screaming banshee, and nobody wants to live the screaming banshee, the honest, and by the way, if you don’t know this, that doesn’t get you what you want. I know, I’ve tried it every single way possible. So, at the end of the day, what ended up happening was, the stress turned me into someone I didn’t like and that person was the person who didn’t like Adam. The other person that you know, I’d met 16 years ago, loved the guy and I would not have changed a thing. So, what I had to do was get back to me before I could get back to him.

[JOE]:
And what did you do to do that? I mean, did you get therapy? Were there books? Were there conferences? Was it just sitting on the beach meditating? What helped you with that?

[KERRY]:
A little bit of all of those things. And a lot of it was me trying to get myself out of the role silo that I had put myself in. Because in the play that was our life, and the main character was the business, I was just like an accessory character. And so, I basically had to kind of step out of that and start taking control of my own life, and not blaming Adam, and not blaming the business for everything that I didn’t have. That’s nobody’s fault but me. Nobody cares about my hopes and dreams more than I do. And I actually turned around one day and didn’t have any. I genuinely had completely lost touch with everything that I thought I wanted. And so, I had to kind of start over, and it started in some weird places. I got certified in Zumba, that was a weird thing I did. What else did I do? I made hair bows for a little while, trying to reconnect a little bit with my creative play self and ended up putting me in the sphere of other really creative, supportive people who just made me better, and once I created this community for myself, Adam saw that I was in a healthy community, he sort of kind of gravitated towards some of that as well. And then sort of accidentally on purpose, we became leaders in this community, which just kind of again showed us that we had something worth sharing and had to put it out there in the world.

[JOE]:
Wow. So, then, you said there’s some kind of particular sets of stressors that happen for entrepreneurs. When did this start to shift where you’re teaching other people and what were some of those kind of key things that that have helped people find that balance between kind of family, and business, and all of that that goes into entrepreneurship?

[ADAM]:
Yeah, so, I was Entrepreneur in Residence at Clemson University’s MBA program for about three years. And during that time, the most common question I got was, “How do I convince my wife to let me start a business?” That’s like the wrong question brother, that’s not what you want to be saying. But, we ended up hanging out with them, we ended up, Kerry would come and talk to the spouse, and I would talk to the entrepreneur, and we would coach them up. And it was just a natural progression. And we also then began to do these things with established business owners and some of our communities and before you know it, we’ve coached and helped over 100 entrepreneurial families. And we look back over that, and we found that there were three common hidden stressors. There was a feeling of alone, feeling of stress, and feeling of scared and we could have said isolation, stress and fear but A.S.S. is a lot more fun to say on stage when talking to people. So, we found that entrepreneurship had hidden pains in the asses.

[KERRY]:
Alone, stressed and scared.

[ADAM]:
Alone, stressed and scared. And so, once we discovered that there was a theme, and by the way, both people in the relationship are feeling it. The entrepreneur was isolated and the spouse was isolated. They were just coming at it from two different sides. And when we found that that was the truth, that made it so that was really easy to move forward. Because then it meant, what’s the opposite of these things? Alone, stressed and scared? Well, we can build communities, we can teach people how to reconnect with their personal identity and their major themes of their lives to learn how to refill themselves. It is shocking how many people, after working so long on something, have forgotten what makes them happy. And they’re just on autopilot.

[KERRY]:
Yeah, I mean, Adam talked earlier about his own obsession with his business. And we find that that is very common with many business owners and entrepreneurs. That is priority one and it takes priority over care of themselves, care of the important people in their lives, and even affects how they spend their money, what they do with their money. I mean, like it permeates every part of their life. And so, when we start talking to people, and trying to help them get healthy, that’s one of the big places that we start exactly what is your purpose? And are you bringing your best self to that? But are you also bringing your best self to other parts of your life? Are you staying healthy? Are you communicating well with your partner? Are you showing up for your kids and your friends? And are you that person across all areas of your life?

[JOE]:
And I think that sometimes it’s just a bad use of time that these entrepreneurs, you know, if you have to work 90 hours a week to make your living, maybe you need to figure out what you’re doing wrong. You know.

[KERRY]:
Yeah, you just gave yourself a job. That’s not a business.

[ADAM]:
You gave yourself two jobs if you’re doing 90. Come on now.

[JOE]:
Yeah, and I mean, for myself, having really clear boundaries around my time has been so helpful to say, you know, I’m not going to start the morning till 09:00 or 09:30. So, I can get a workout in, drop off the girls at school, maybe, you know, hit the hot tub or something like that before I start working, and then I feel like ready to take on the world after I listen to, you know, some Kesha or some Eminem. And, you know, to end by 15:30 and say, okay, I’m done, I’m going to hang out with my kids, we’re going to do this and to do that Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, forces me to drop the ball. And so, then I can say, okay, I spent my time on the highest things that I can work on, you know, showing up for a podcast, I’m not going to outsource that to have someone else do my interviews for me. To do my consulting, I’m not gonna outsource that. But you know, checking my email, yeah, my assistant checks my email and just stars the ones that only I need to read or that I need to respond to. And so, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, they feel like their time, well, I can just do it, I might as well spend my time doing that, versus no, I’m gonna hand that off to somebody else, to a system, to a person, or just eliminate the task, and then allow myself to do the best use of my time.

[ADAM]:
Yes, and I resonate with so much of that. We noticed the same kind of thing, that it isn’t necessarily that people don’t know what to do, but they are, I call it the entrepreneurial circus. There’s so much to look at, and so many things to do, and I can be all duh duh duh duh, and you forget the fact that you’ve got your family in the circus with you. And the idea that we kind of stumbled on is, what people really needed was a methodology. What they really needed was okay, if you want to make a change from moving as fast as you possibly can, doing 90 hours a week to you take control of your schedule, you’re dropping the kids off, you’re picking the kids up, you’re living a whole life. They need a step-by-step guide. They need a methodology to practice. And again, when I talk about methodologies and systems, I don’t care which ones you use, pick one, ours is great. You should use that one. But, if you got one, just do something and systemize the behaviors. The thing that Kerry discovered that was mind-blowing to me was she said, “Adam, you use business processes and systems all the time to scale and make your companies efficient. Why aren’t you doing the same thing in your life?” And I was like, dang girl. Yes. So, she created all of these things that are basically running our family like a business and then giving the business the purpose of the family. And it has changed absolutely everything. It’s so easy to set priorities when you know what you’re all about.

[JOE]:
So, what does that actually look like for your family and for your business? What are some practical examples? Like for me, it’s, you know, I don’t work on Fridays and Mondays, except for maybe an hour of email, and that really allows me to kind of get the house prepped or whatever before the kids come home or leave for the week. What are some of those practical here’s what it looks like in Kerry and Adam’s house.

[KERRY]:
Because we work together, here from our home, oftentimes, there are several opportunities throughout the week for us to kind of touch base. But the thing that we got started doing before we were working together is having a weekly stand-up, what we call a family business meeting, and that was just an opportunity that was basically no longer than 30-minutes long or so that was just our quick stand-up touch point, just like you would do in a regular business, about the schedule, about the money, about what was going on in the multiple businesses that we that we were involved in, what was going on with the kids, and then an opportunity to say what went really well that week and also like ask for help. I can’t ask you for help because you’re so busy, but here’s where you could help me, because oftentimes we were not building in those opportunities to practice good communication. Oftentimes it would just kind of blow up at the end of the, after a few weeks of these things not ever being talked about or being swept under the rug or whatever. So,, we kind of tried to get ahead of conflict before it happened. And then if something came up, that was a bigger issue, we would chunk some time out for it so that we both kind of had some time to think about it and process it before it turned into a big issue. And then around that we also really protected our weekends. Our weekends, we really try to leave for our kids. You know, our kids are a little bit older so, we had, I mean, it was a complete juggling act to get one to theater, to get one to soccer, to get one to a math tutor, you know, whatever the case may be. So, I mean, it was like we were just ships in the night sometimes. So, we honestly just like you said, we had to delegate a little bit. We had to pull in some outside help, we arranged for there to be sitters at certain times of the week to help us with things so that we weren’t just running ourselves into the ground. And we made that a priority and made it happen so we could buy ourselves some time back.

[ADAM]:
And the other thing that was super important, so a weekly meeting where you can identify the stressors and then go get help with those stressors, only works if before you did that you got on the same page. If you share a same vision and a same goal. I’m sure we’ve all been in a meeting before where we’re not on the same page and two different people have two different goals, the meetings not very effective. So, we actually just got back from a personal retreat to a spa in Asheville, North Carolina, where we took three days to talk about our individual vision value and goals and bringing those together to say, hey, what does 2020 look like? So…

[KERRY]:
And again, we’ve been we’ve been together 16 years, we’ve been married 14, and we’ve really changed what our values are. From the time we got married, to the time we had kids, to now here our kids are older. And I mean, you know, things are changing. As they get older, we need to be able to adapt and change as well. So, it’s really important to stay on top of those things and update them so that everybody’s on the same page.

[JOE]:
Ah man, I feel like we could go all day on this and that’s probably why you have so many teachings and extra resources. The last question I want to ask each of you is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? And Kerry, why don’t we start with you?

[KERRY]:
Sure, I often compare what it has been like for us, and this is not to minimize in any way shape or form anyone in the military or their sacrifices or anything, but I often mirror what it’s like to be an entrepreneurial family to that of being a military family. We both assume a high level of risk, we both are kind of, on-call to get up and do whatever the job expects of us, not just not just the person who’s doing the business, but the family as well. And it can be very scary and risky as well. But, you know, unfortunately, we don’t have a base that we can move to where we have a community who understands us and can support us. We don’t have the kind of mental health, or support, or anything like that. So, if I had to say anything to practitioners who are having to deal with these particular things, especially if it’s a couple who has to work together, to really, really, really emphasize on keeping those things in mind, those particular stressors, but also really, really having an emphasis on communication and how to transmit information to each other in an effective way that doesn’t strike conflict.

[JOE]:
Oh, that’s so awesome. And Adam, what about you?

[ADAM]:
If I had everybody listening to me, first off, I would feel very important, and now I do, thank you. But, the thing that they need to know is that what you’re doing is incredibly important. The idea that you can heal by helping, the idea that you can have an impact to someone’s life, and the idea that you can do it while generating a living for yourself that creates amazing things is just so important. And it is so very, very hard, but I want to encourage you that at the other side of it, it is amazing and eventually, you can get to the point where the ride is amazing too and you don’t even have to worry about trying to get to the destination. So, if you’re just getting started, and you’re just doing these things, I just want to encourage you, you just keep at it, eventually it’s going to get better, it will, it will become something that you can love. If you’re in the middle of hating it right now, just hang in there, find a community to join, connect with people, and keep it up.

[JOE]:
So awesome. And Kerry and Adam, you have a free assessment and email course that can help people take some next steps. Tell us a little bit about that free course.

[ADAM]:
Right. So ,what we’ve done is we’ve taken the 10 major teachings that we share with people and we’ve summarized them in the email with a couple of YouTube videos. So, we’re basically giving that away and folks can just subscribe to it. And over time we’ll deliver the messages and you can watch the stuff and it’s, it’s the easiest way to come up to speed on what we’re talking about, without having to jump in with two feet. And the assessment is to determine how well you and your spouse are understanding the three C’s the chill, communication and community, and how each one of you are doing. This is what causes fights, by the way, because you think everything’s fine, and now the assessments done, and you look at each other and you go, oh, maybe we have some work to do.

[JOE]:
Awesome. And where can they get those?

[ADAM]:
Yeah, you can get them from wlemission.com/practice. We were kind enough not to make you spell entrepreneurship for WLE stands for “whole life entrepreneurship”. So that’s wlemission.com/practice.

[JOE]:
Awesome. Kerry and Adam, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast.

[ADAM]:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This has been a whole lot of fun.

[KERRY]:
Yes. Thank you for having us.

[JOE]:
You know, when I do pre-consulting calls with people, exploring whether or not consulting with me, or Alison, or Jeremy, or Whitney, would be a good fit. One of the big things I ask them is, “If this was really successful, how would that change things?” And, you know, it’s one thing to say I want to make more money, or I want to have more time off, but to really understand what’s the heart behind somebody’s goals? That just makes it a lot easier to get behind, for the person and for me, because we then figure out okay, here’s the big driver here and it has nothing to do with just the bottom line money. It has something to do with something much bigger. And I think that idea of having your family support your business/your business support your family is a really important idea. And it’s really at the core of kind of what I teach and hope for, for you. So, also want to thank Brighter Vision for being a sponsor. They have been a long-term sponsor, they have the best websites for therapists out there. It’s so great because it’s just a monthly fee and it includes everything: your IT support, your building of your website, the hosting, great SEO, getting it all set up. It’s really amazing. I visited their office, obviously not during quarantine, but visited their office when I was in Colorado last, and to just meet the team and see all these people that are supporting thousands of therapists is really amazing. So, head on over to brightervision.com/Joe so you can access that deal we talked about at the beginning of the show. And thanks so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain, have a great day.

Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music, we really like it. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered, is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests, are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional you should find one.