Joe Sanok 00:00:00 Hey there, practice of the practice community. Are you ready to take your private practice to the next level? Then mark your calendars for September 16th through 19th, 2024, because Level Up week is back and bigger than ever. Insert rocket emoji here. Join us for four days of live webinars, interactive panels, and exclusive resources tailored just for counselors, therapists and private practice owners. Whether you’re looking to fill your caseload, hire your first clinician or scale your group practice, we’ve got you covered. This is your chance to level up while others give up. Don’t miss out on this game changing event. Register now at practice of the practice. Com forward slash level up and get ready to transform your practice. Remember September 16th through 19th Level up week your ticket to practice success. Register today and let’s level up together. Practice of the practice. Com forward slash level up This is the practice of the Practice podcast with Jo Sang, accession number 1056. Welcome to the practice of the practice podcast. I’m Joe Santos, your host, and we are here every day hanging out with you, helping you build a private practice that is thriving, that you absolutely love. Joe Sanok 00:01:29 We want you to do both of those things. We want you to thrive, but we don’t want you to kill yourself in the process. We want you to have a great culture, have great operations, a great mindset, but also impact the people you want. And at the end of the day, we want you to love what you’re doing. for me, I am so excited that I get to do what I love. I’ve said this before. I’m sure I’ll say it a million more times. So many of my report cards as a child said Joey talks to his neighbors too much. Joey distracts his neighbors when he’s done with his homework. Joey needs to stop talking to his neighbors like it was. He doesn’t stop talking. And now I get paid to talk. I get paid to hang out with people like H.R. Huntsman, who we’re going to be hanging out with today. And just. I get to be curious. I get to dig in. Now, if you haven’t checked out all the amazing shows we’ve had, and this last month has been insane, we talked about solving psychiatric access back in 1044. Joe Sanok 00:02:27 we talked with Zig Ziglar, attorney Scott, Reeb about how to shatterproof your practice. We talked about your nervous system. We talked about the laws of connection. We talked with Iranian refugees. we talked about parental estrangement, positioning yourself through writing a book, Better mental Performance, and a nonprofit that is funding psychedelic therapy. There’s tons that we’ve covered this month. So go back, find some of the episodes that really are interesting to you. Also, September 16th through 19th, we are having level up week yet again. We’re going to have tons of live webinars about every single phase of practice. So if you’re confused, if you’re not sure what to do, if you just want some help, come hang out with us. We are going to be doing ample Q&A. You’re going to get time to figure out exactly what you need to do to leave with a roadmap totally free, so you can register for that over at practice of the practice.com/level up. Now HR Huntsman is no stranger to the show. He was on the show about a year ago. Joe Sanok 00:03:24 He’s the founder of Leaders Edge. He’s also a business and leadership keynote speaker, organizational strategist, author, business executive, coach, and business leadership consultant. HR. Welcome back to the practice of the Practice Podcast. Joe. HR Huntsman 00:03:38 It’s a pleasure to be back. Thank you so much for having me, my friend. Joe Sanok 00:03:41 Yeah, man. When we were talking before we started rolling, and I said, how are things going? And you’re like, we’re hosting all these people out on 20 acres doing axe throwing and team building. I’m like, oh my gosh, that was my world. Pause. Don’t tell me anything more. I want to record. So tell me about how things are going for you this summer and that that work you’re doing with all these leadership teams? HR Huntsman 00:04:03 Yeah. You bet. so all the things that we teach in our workshops and our performance engine program, creative conflict, conflict resolution, strategic thinking, critical thinking, problem solving, all those things that we teach, we’ve baked into this adventure course. HR Huntsman 00:04:20 We bring our teams out here. I think we have 14 different companies coming out here this summer. Very busy for us, it’s not an obstacle course. You have to think your way around the course using map and compass and building a fire and throwing axes. You’re competing against teams from your own organization and watching people put into practice. The things we teach in our workshops in a fun environment is a blast for us. Joe Sanok 00:04:45 So awesome. Now, did you have a background in team building? Low ropes, high ropes, orientation, things like that? HR Huntsman 00:04:52 No, I’m an outdoor kid, grew up in New Mexico, spent all my childhood out in the deserts, in the mountains with my my dog scamp. And I just love the wilderness. I love the outdoors. That’s why I live out here on 40 acres, out in the middle of the woods. And so utilizing it to do teambuilding and creative thinking. Problem solving is just a a mixture of two things that I love. Joe Sanok 00:05:17 Yeah. You know I was in the Boy Scouts and did Eagle Scout and have always loved outdoors. Joe Sanok 00:05:22 So all through graduate school like every paper I would write was about wilderness therapy, outdoor therapy things like that. But then I realized if I ever wanted a family or a partner, that disappearing for 30 days into the wilderness probably wouldn’t be the lifestyle that that I wanted to live if I wanted both those things, but got super involved in the Association for Experiential Education, which there’s a lot of, you know, therapists that are involved in that and high ropes, low ropes type stuff. but yeah, I did this program where I took kids sailing on this 50 foot wooden, sailboat. They looked like a pirate ship. And then we do therapy on the sailboat, and just. I feel like there’s just something about adding activity into learning that just solidifies it in a way that that it’s almost like nothing else can. So when you think about, like, activity and learning with these teams, like, what do you see happen when they’re involved in this kind of training? HR Huntsman 00:06:13 Well, for one, and I think your audience can relate to this. HR Huntsman 00:06:16 It expands the way they think. They’re they’re so used to thinking in a rut. And one particular way they do the same thing day after day after day. And it’s rote. And so to challenge their brain to expand and try new things and experience creating creative thinking in a new way, or problem solving in a new way, and especially when you get grounded in the out of doors, whether it’s sailing or camping, getting grounded in those areas, having fun with your team, it just releases those endorphins and you get a dopamine rush while you’re practicing the things that they need to work on to make their business and their teams even more successful. Joe Sanok 00:06:54 Now, what do you do when there’s always got to be somebody that’s sort of the more skeptical, arms folded person? do you have any strategies of how you engage them in the process if they don’t seem like they’re fully bought in? Or maybe you’re lucky and all the teams are fully bought in and prepped and ready to go. HR Huntsman 00:07:10 Well, the leadership certainly is. HR Huntsman 00:07:12 I mean, to bring their team out here, they’re bought into team bonding and things. But there’s always going to be, you know, maybe 1 or 2 people in a given week that are like, why are we out here? We could be at work working right, grinding and making the widgets, getting them involved, asking them questions, you know, helping them lead something. Maybe they’re strong at logic puzzles or tying knots. And so really finding an area where they have a strength and then calling them to the forefront is how we work to get people engaged and involved. Yeah. Joe Sanok 00:07:45 Now take us through just like, what is some of this look like? You don’t have to go through the entire curriculum, but, I think that there’s therapists that maybe, you know, I always love to expose them to what other people are doing, and then maybe thinking through the lens of, you know, as a therapist, could you do this sort of stuff? So, like, what is a day with a team typically look like? HR Huntsman 00:08:03 So they come out and have lunch. HR Huntsman 00:08:04 So we have a nice Traeger. They get tri tip and salad. And during that time we talk about some of these principles. They’re going to be tested on the course again creative conflict, conflict resolution, problem solving, good communication. What’s really important to us is watch and make sure that leaders help the quiet people come forward and people aren’t too dominant, and they learn how to really communicate as a team with good listening skills, active listening, asking good questions. So we we we give that in our preview. And the setting is 1840s fur trappers here in the Pacific Northwest. So they’re taking on the role of an 1840s fur trapper and practicing the skills that the fur trappers and the Native Americans would have to have in these areas. And so they’re out on the course deciding which way to go, which activities should they do first? How do they respond to change? We’ll throw in a broken wagon wheel or a cracked femur here and there to upset the applecart and make them think creatively. And and all those things happen in business. HR Huntsman 00:09:08 So they’re making their way around the course, trying to strategically think while overcoming challenges that are thrown their way, just like every one of us has to do in business. Joe Sanok 00:09:19 Yeah. And you know when people work together in that sort of area, what are some of the common realizations moments like team connections that you know you see over and over. HR Huntsman 00:09:31 There’s always a tension between passivity and proactivity. And this is true in the workplace as well. What we notice is people have a hard time making decisions because they don’t want to step on anybody’s toes. No one wants to be too strong. And so that can lead to inaction and just a passive wandering around, which we also see in business. On the other hand, we see that the dominant leaders that don’t hesitate to run over people’s opinions and their advice giving. And so we have to call that out as well. So somewhere in the middle between overly dominant leaders and passive teams is what we see a lot. And then when we do our debrief, we as their guides call those things out and talk about how did they see that back in the workplace and action steps to to level that out and what we can work on in our next workshop. Joe Sanok 00:10:24 Now I know one of your specialties and things that you’re seeing with a lot of these businesses is retaining top talent and attracting top talent. I know therapists across the nation are like I’m bursting at the seams, I need more help with mental health access. I just can’t find people that I want to hire that are good, that meet all the qualifications and also, you know, kind of have have the hood guts to really do a good job here. what are you seeing when it comes to, first retaining your top talent? We’ll talk about kind of some acquisition strategies in a minute, but with the team you already have, you’ve got good people. You’ve got maybe people that aren’t great. what are you seeing? Is working with retaining top talent? HR Huntsman 00:11:07 Yeah, you’re right on, Joe. I think first and foremost, talent acquisition and retention is the. Is the fight right now for any business. you know, the talent market is limited compared to the need for employers. And so building a culture that retains and attracts top talent, I think is a top priority. HR Huntsman 00:11:28 Everywhere I go, I preach this next thing that talent acquisition and retention is more important now than client acquisition and retention, because having a top notch team is the key to taking great care of our patients and our clients. So wherever we go, we teach five things for business owners, CEOs, executives to really focus on when it comes to a highly attractive culture. And we always started with radical clarity. Great leaders, great organizations preach and practice radical clarity, making clear everything that can be clear roles, responsibilities, expectations, deliverables, who buy when pay structures, bonus structures, reporting protocols. Everything that can be made clear is made clear by leadership, and we have the forums and groups settings to make sure things are clear. That’s where an empowering culture begins. Joe Sanok 00:12:30 So radical clarity your like making sure as much as possible as communicated clear transparent all of that. What else goes into making a great culture. HR Huntsman 00:12:40 Second thing after clarity we talk a lot about authentic connection So after radical clarity and right along with it, they run parallel is create authentic connection. HR Huntsman 00:12:51 We teach 3ds poor leaders diminish average leaders direct great leaders develop. They really take the time to develop talent. They listen. They ask questions. They lead more by curiosity than by order giving. And when when that authentic connection is created, people feel seen, heard and valued. And like all of your providers know as therapists, that’s the human condition. We want to be seen, heard and valued. And that is just as true in the workplace as in the home life. Joe Sanok 00:13:26 Yeah. So they’re developing leadership. And you know one thing that we do in practice, the practice is at least once a year. And my hope is that it’s embedded in, in all we do in conversations is you know, we have a conversation around what are you doing now that you really enjoy doing in your job. what do you hate doing that you would love to offload to someone else? To be able to just stop doing it? That we’d train someone else, hire someone else. And then where do you see yourself developing? Like, do you want to get training in video editing? Do you want to get training in operations or iOS or other things? it’s been amazing to see, you know, I think about Sam, our COO, she started as our slow down school conference planner. Joe Sanok 00:14:07 She came in for a three month contract with that. Then she said, you know, I’m really interested in podcasting and doing more of the back end. So she developed a whole flow there. And then from there, she’s like, you know, I really want to kind of get into some operational things. So we put her through some training around, you know, becoming a CEO. And, you know, over the last seven, eight years, she’s gone from just being a conference planner to being our main, top like, operations person. And so thinking about, you know, developing that talent, what else do top leaders do to build their culture? HR Huntsman 00:14:40 And the key with the example you just gave the real life example, Joe, is that you ask questions and we see that leaders who lead through inquiry, you know, what do you think? What would you do? How would you approach that? That’s what helps bring that connection. I just read an article not that long ago that gave the stat it was staggering that 77% of Gen Y and Gen Z feel, and I quote moderately to severely isolated, and us taking a look at that in the workplace is incredibly important in drawing people out through questions. HR Huntsman 00:15:11 The third thing that we teach on the heels of clarity and connection is don’t be afraid to set high expectations. Great organizations that retain top talent, believe it or not, have high accountability protocols and high expectations. And that goes against what we hear a lot in our culture. No one wants to work anymore. Everyone’s lazy, genuine Gen Z, they have no work ethic. We are seeing the opposite with the top performing teams. Now, let me clarify. You’re not going to get high accountability unless you first have the first two. Clarity and connection. And the problem is, many organizations try to get the accountability and high expectations without the clarity and connection. And you must go in that order. Joe Sanok 00:15:57 So then what else do we need to do to build that culture. HR Huntsman 00:16:00 So clarity connection high accountability. And the fourth one is our specialty that we see pretty rarely. And that’s the willingness to debate and disagree. We call this creative conflict. And in in psychology circles people talk about the disputing personal conflict or personality conflict and task conflict we call task conflict idea conflict, the the debate over ideas not getting things personal, and the organizations that can minimize personality conflict and increase idea conflict. HR Huntsman 00:16:35 Those are high performing organizations, but that takes a lot of work. Joe Sanok 00:16:40 Yeah, absolutely. I am so excited about alma. When I had my private practice I struggled building my caseload, attracting the right clients, managing the business side. And honestly, one of the reasons I didn’t take insurance was it was so difficult to navigate. So many of my consulting clients deal with these problems as well, and almost supports clinicians in building rewarding private practices with simplified insurance credentialing in under 45 days, enhanced reimbursement rates, and guaranteed two week payback, plus a free profile in their searchable, filter able directory. Making easy for clients who are the right fit for your practice to find you. Learn more about how alma could support your private practice at. Hello, alma. Com forward slash Jo. That’s. Hello, alma dot com slash Joe to learn more. Now, what does that look like to have, a little bit more, idea conflict and allowing people to have different opinions because they think that some owners or founders, they can do things intentionally or unintentionally, that that mute opposition that just creates a yes, you’re you’re the smart one. Joe Sanok 00:18:06 You’re the owner will just go with it. what can we be doing to openly allow for better and different ideas? HR Huntsman 00:18:15 You use a keyword there, and that’s being intentional. It’s learning to set timers. We always teach two things. You have to have two things safety and space. Space being space on the calendar. Proactively, intentionally creating time in the calendar time in the week to have these conversations. And it could be about a challenge that’s coming up. It could be about our strategy for the next six months or how we’re going to approach this opportunity. So space and something your audience is going to know very well at psychological safety. And that is laying eagle aside that power differential lane keeping that at the door, putting rank at the door, taking your rank off when you enter the board room or the conference room. Having space and safety to to willfully and respectfully disagree. You know, raise your hand, Joe. I don’t think that’s the way we should go. I have this idea or I don’t know. HR Huntsman 00:19:12 Could you explain that further? I’d like to see us try this and having those types of conversations. But we have to work hard because we’re not really good at conflict in our culture. We haven’t been taught in the home, so we don’t practice it in the workplace. And it’s up to the key leaders to give the opportunity to practice that and help make sure everyone feels safe in their disagreement Joe Sanok 00:19:37 Yeah. So then then what’s after that. HR Huntsman 00:19:41 the fifth that we teach is they reinforce a profound purpose. I just read an HBR article yesterday. As a matter of fact, it shows that there’s a 30% increase in innovation in organizations that live by purpose and not by task orientation. I find that to be profound. Joe Sanok 00:20:02 and tell me, what does that look like? HR Huntsman 00:20:04 It means we don’t always talk about the weeds and putting out the fires of the making of the widgets and the organization and the task at hand. And that’s where most leaders, they get caught up. What do we need to do today? What’s our checklist? How do we hammer things out rather than reminding the team what our vision is, what our mission is, what our purpose is, reinforcing our why, reinforcing our values, celebrating our values when they’re displayed consistently, bringing to the forefront of front stage, the center stage why we do what we do. HR Huntsman 00:20:39 Telling that story again and again and again. That’s a big separator in innovation and creativity. When people, especially nowadays more than ever, people want to go to a work that has meaning and purpose, where their their skills and their time are highly valued to make great change in their organization, in their community. So the leaders that bring that forefront to the center stage, those are the organizations that have a fantastic culture. Joe Sanok 00:21:09 Now when people have that culture and they’re through that culture, how does that connect with retaining top talent? Why does that work as the main strategy to retain top talent? HR Huntsman 00:21:21 Again, people people want to know that what they do has meaning behind it has purpose behind it. Besides just earning a paycheck or helping the business owner fund their house in Hawaii. They they want to know their time and their talent. Their energy, their blood, sweat and tears is going to something larger. I believe most of us, the human condition, is we want to be part of things that have purpose and meaning behind them, and the leaders that continually tell that story. HR Huntsman 00:21:51 That helps create a place where people feel valued and important around community change, around culture change, around family change, and helping marriages and helping people emerge from brokenness and dysfunction. And the leaders that tell those stories beyond just the what and the how and the reinforce the why. They create that attractive culture that most people want to be part of. Joe Sanok 00:22:15 it’s so awesome. when when you’ve created that culture, you’re retaining top talent, and then you’re trying to find new clinicians to join your practice. How do you articulate or market or get the word out that you’re different than other private practices? You’ve got a great culture. I’m sure there’s some word of mouth from people that already work there, but what else can you be doing that can really attract the top talent? Because I feel like that’s like the retention side definitely is a problem right now. But finding people that are really good, that seems to be a really big challenge to. HR Huntsman 00:22:49 So the, the organizations that have a really fantastic culture and attractive culture, a, a culture that minds for excellence, that minds for creativity and innovation, the people on that team are the greatest spokespeople for that organization. HR Huntsman 00:23:06 And they are going to say, this is a great place to work. No one knows the organization better than them. No, indeed, AD is going to be as vocal and as persuasive as those teammates, so reminding them that they are part of the marketing team for recruiting for talent and great leaders do that. They get their team together and say your your circle, your people, your sphere of influence is the greatest place where we can find people. Because you know who will succeed here? You know what we stand for. You know our core brand values. So beginning with that. And that could be referral incentives or just reminding people that we are looking for talent. So we start there and then, you know, going to the the ad world or the recruiting world, what we help people do is develop what we call a talent profile, and that is developing an avatar that is the perfect person that can work at our clinic or at our office. So let’s let’s define and describe what that person looks like, how they carry themselves, how they view our work and what we do. HR Huntsman 00:24:07 So those are the first two steps getting your team to be your best recruiters, and then defining a talent profile that we can then develop all of our marketing messages around as we’re looking for talent in the digital space indeed. And ladders and everyplace else. Joe Sanok 00:24:25 Yeah I think that just that idea of using your team as your best spokespeople, I mean they’re the ones that are part of informal groups that know other therapists, other quality talent even. That’s right. When I look at growing our South Africa team, it started with one person saying, oh, there’s someone down the hall that is a great, really organized person. And that’s where we found Sam, our CEO. you know, years ago. And then, you know, someone knew someone else that owned a website company. And it’s amazing how when you get good people, they usually know good people. HR Huntsman 00:24:59 That’s right. That’s exactly right. They’re going to be your greatest evangelists for what we’re trying to do for the culture and the people that we’re trying to serve. Joe Sanok 00:25:09 Now, are there any traps that people fall into after they get their culture down? Like maybe where they get lazy, where they stop paying attention as much because I don’t know, like I think about when I was, when I was working at the community college every year there’d be like the thing of the year. So one year it’s strength finders and every team goes through strength finders. And, you know, everyone’s supposed to talk about their strengths, and then the next year it’s, you know, something else. and so it felt like there was always a lot of energy, you know, initially around kind of new projects. So I could imagine that when you’re like, we’re going to make our culture better, we’re going to go through these five things. We’re going to focus on all five of them. that after a while, maybe, you know, they need a booster shot or, you know, they get a little bit lazy. Are there are there areas that you would say, here’s how you really sustain that culture over the long haul. Joe Sanok 00:25:58 Like they could be habits that people do weekly or monthly or annually or like, how do you sustain it? HR Huntsman 00:26:03 Yeah, absolutely. One of the phrases we teach everywhere we go is consistency is the key to mastery. I’ll say that consistency is the key or the foundation of mastery. It doesn’t matter if you’re a golfer or a dancer or a musician. Practice your scales, practice your steps. Practice your putting. Every day, every day, every day. I did some martial arts for a while. I did some MMA and some, cage fighting, and my jiu jitsu sensei talked to me about a white belt mentality and that there’s two things to that that is always learning, always striving, always open mind. And then practice the basic fundamentals every single day. So we teach that wherever we go, there are certain consistent behaviors that high performing teams do. And that is they have fantastic meetings. They make sure their meetings are short, concise, powerful, and they’re set up for success. They have good accountability structures who buy when. HR Huntsman 00:27:07 What are your deliverables? They have those creative conflict meetings that are on the schedule, and they just practice these things again and again and again and again. And they’re always open to learn and listen. So there are things that these organizations do on a consistent basis that sets them apart from average organizations that are inconsistent They just follow the the new hot trend and they don’t do the basic fundamentals just again and again and again and again. Joe Sanok 00:27:36 I love that I love that. Well the last question that I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know. HR Huntsman 00:27:47 I would want them to know that there is likely more talent on your team than any of us are even aware of, and as a leader, it’s our responsibility and our privilege to set up a culture and an environment where that comes to fruition. I think the greatest waste in human history is the waste of human potential. And if we as leaders can set up an environment to call that greatness forward, I’d love your listeners to create the space and the safety, to ask those questions, to bring that greatness to the forefront. Joe Sanok 00:28:23 So awesome. Well, if people want to connect with you, if they want to connect with your business, where should we send them? HR Huntsman 00:28:28 sure. Yeah. Just email me directly. I just love to have a chat with anyone who wants to reach out H.R. At your leaders, Edgecomb. Or you can just check us out. Of course, on our website. Your leaders. Edgecomb. Joe Sanok 00:28:40 So awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the practice of the practice podcast. HR Huntsman 00:28:45 Thank you. Joe. I appreciate you having me again. Joe Sanok 00:28:56 Well, don’t forget to register for Level Up Week. That is September 16th through 19th. It’s right around the corner. you’re going to want to sign up for as many of those free webinars as you want to attend. we have all sorts of small groups. We have discussions. We’ve got, some things that are a little more formal, a little less formal presentations. Sign up for what looks good for you if you’re just getting going in solo practice. Joe Sanok 00:29:20 Or maybe your solo practice isn’t kicking it like you want it to come to some of the solo practice webinars are. If you have a growing group practice, or maybe you aren’t sure what to do first. We have people from group practice launch that are going to be joining us that in the last six months have hired their very first person. So people that are in the thick of it, they can talk through, how do they decide 1099 versus W2? What did their onboarding look like? How do they get them full? All those things that are so confusing. And then, man, when you have ten or more, clinicians, it’s sometimes hard to know with a group practice how you can get there or how you can keep growing and scaling. And so we’ve got people that are going to be doing a group all around what they’ve done to grow as well, where you can just ask questions. It’s going to be super interactive, totally free. Again, that’s over at practice of the practice.com/level up. Joe Sanok 00:30:12 I was going to say level up week but practice practice.com/level up on my brain. stopped working for a second there. We’ll just leave that in because you know it’s a podcast and you can see that I screw up all the time. Also, we couldn’t do this without our awesome, awesome sponsors. Alma is our sponsor for today. They help support clinicians in a way that I wish I had had when I started mental wellness counseling. They do simplified insurance credentialing in under 45 days. They get you better rates and get guaranteed to get paid within two weeks. Head on over to hello alma.com/joe. You can download your free guide to identifying and connecting with the right clients for your practice, and they’re going to help you out over at. Hello alma.com slash. Joe, thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band Silences Sexy for that intro music. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. Joe Sanok 00:31:08 It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.