[JOE]:
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This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 477. If you just found this podcast I am so glad that you are here. I would love for you to rate, review, and subscribe so that you don’t ever miss an amazing episode. We have some great episodes coming up that I can’t wait for you to hear. People from Michael Hyatt’s Platform University coming up. We have more about finding a supervisor, how to get national media attention, all sorts of different things coming up that I don’t want you to miss out on. And those are all coming up in the month of August. So really excited today to have my friends Billy and Brandy Eldridge. You know, I met them at Killin’It Camp in 2019. They were all signed up to speak at the 2020 Killin’It Camp which we had to cancel the live version of, but they started this podcast, the Beta Male Revolution, they’re going to talk all about that. I think we hung out every night at happy hour at Killin’It Camp. It was just a great way to get to know them and now they are rocking it out with their own podcast and really, in less than a year are influencers in the field. So, without any further ado, I give you Billy and Brandy Eldridge

Well today on the Practice of the Practice podcast we have Billy and Brandy Eldridge. Billy is the owner of Olive Tree Counseling and they are two Killin’It Campers that also are doing the Done For You podcasting with us. Billy and Brandy, welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast.

[BILLY]:
Thanks for having us, Joe.

[BRANDY]:
Hey, Joe.

[JOE]:
Man, you know, at Killin’It Camp, we hung out… I think every night we ended up hanging out together. It was so much fun to get to know the two of you, and why don’t we just start with you guys came to Killin’It Camp – what were your goals? Why’d you come? And what was it like for you?

[BILLY]:
Well, I had been in private practice for a few years and was just running into obstacles on how to structure it, how to build the business side. I love counseling, but all the extra stuff just was overwhelming to me. And I was an early subscriber to your podcast, found it early on, back in the days when you were talking about handing out glasses at the ACA conference and…

[JOE]:
Oh yeah.

[BILLY]:
Way back in the day, and that was so helpful, and I just had to go to Killin’It Camp, and I wanted Brandy to come with me. And we came up there as a couple and we learned so much. I like to say I’m probably not your best student because I only plug in about 10% of… because I’m just really bad at change. But you’ve challenged me to change, and you push me to change, on adding things. And it’s changed the overall outlook of my business.

[JOE]:
And Brandy, kind of fill in some context for the listeners as kind of your role in coming to Killin’It Camp because you’re not a therapist, but it was great because we had, I think three couples that came as couples. Tell us a little bit about your background so the people kind of understand how you fit in.

[BRANDY]:
Well, my first reason – I have to tell you that when Billy was nerding out on your podcast back in the day he made me listen to ’em. And I was like, Billy, I don’t have time to listen this guy, like, I get it. Great. I’m glad you found somebody. But I don’t really have time, and Billy goes, no, no, no, it’s like, you gotta listen to this. And he would get so excited and make me listen to pieces of your podcast. And so, I kind of got to know you through that. And so, when Billy said, I want to go to Killin’It Camp, you know, it’s Joe Sanok. I was like, well, you should go. Absolutely. But it’s in Colorado. Well, then I should go with you. And Billy is… and we’ll talk more about that later, but he’s more of a beta male. So, he’s slow to change. He’s risk adversive. You know, he’s not one that’s going to take challenges and risks. And so, when he started listening to you, I started to see a change in what he was doing in his own practice, and a change in him of wanting to do things differently. And so yeah, I wanted to go on board with him and help him in any way that I could to make those changes,

[JOE]:
And what kind of changes did you see just from listening to the podcast? And then maybe we can talk about post Killin’It Camp, what that looked like.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, for me, just utilizing a lot of the services you pointed me to like adding Grasshopper and adding TherapyNotes and building systems that allowed me to free up some time, giving me permission and freedom to bring on other people because I was totally bootstrapped. Hiring an accountant and giving me permission that that’s not your specialty. Go get somebody who’s really good at that, and you do what you’re good at. I was trying to carry everything and…

[BRANDY]:
And he still is, like, don’t let him… he still is.

[BILLY]:
Like I said, I’m a tough sell on change and I’m realizing how controlling I am, and to let things go is very hard. So, I look at and I listen to people who’ve changed and like, man, they listen to your podcasts and in a year’s time they’ve switched over everything. It’s been about a three-year process for me.

[BRANDY]:
And you’re halfway there.

[BILLY]:
But I have to realize that’s okay too. It’s my personality and giving myself, you know, I’ll start the comparison game and be like, man, I’m really not listening, you know, start beating myself up, but then I realize, this is my pace and that’s okay. And I’m using some of the stuff and it’s allowed me to move a little more freely in my practice and freed up things, and there’s still a lot of things I need to do. I like to say I fail forward.

[BRANDY]:
Also, finding your specialty. I think that was a huge leap for him because he was doing all of it. He would take anybody. And really, what is he? He’s good at a lot of things when it comes to counseling. I believe he is the best counselor out there. But really working with adolescent male teenage boys that are angry or having issues, and then the parents, and the men that don’t like counseling; that’s kind of what he started to hone in on with you. And that’s made a big difference.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, clarifying the message was really important.

[JOE]:
And then when you left Killin’It Camp, what were some things that you took away from it either as a couple or individually, that you felt, wow, this really helped shake things up for us.

[BILLY]:
Oh, going back to that, clarifying the message, and finding out who and what I want to be, do I even want a group practice? I always thought that was the goal, that I had to have this huge group practice with lots of people working for me. It’s the first time I was sat down and asked the question, is that what you really want? Do you want to have employees? Do you want to have… what do you want for your future? What do you want your life to look like? And beginning to script that out was very important. And then the second most important thing – I loved every topic we went over, I loved every breakout session, but the relationships I built there that I still have today. I still meet with a guy once a week. We hold each other accountable, go over our goals, help encourage each other, that I met up there, our friend, Brett Sweitzer.

[JOE]:
Oh.

[BRANDY]:
He found another little… yeah, his little beta brother.

[BILLY]:
Yeah.

[JOE]:
That’s awesome.

[BILLY]:
So, every Friday, we have an hour long conversation on, how well are we following the goals we set for ourselves at Killin’It Camp, and encourage each other in areas that we need to grow, and give each other a hoorah for where we’re killing it.

[JOE]:
That’s so cool. Well, Brandy, I want to go back to a little bit of your backstory, because we went into kind of how you supported Billy, and listened to the podcast, but just tell us a little bit more about yourself. You are, in your own right doing some really amazing things. So, talk about kind of the research and that sort of stuff that you’re working on.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah. So right now, I’m a doctoral student at the University of Southern California, and I just submitted my final pitch to study happiness… happiness in the workplace. I’m really excited to be able to do that. I’m an executive director of a nonprofit. And we deal in child abuse all day long. Every day. We have about 25 people in our building and the fact that they keep coming back every day to do this work, and deal in trauma and child abuse, and see some of the most horrific things that you could see a child go through, we have a tenured staff, we have people that come back, we have people that want to work there, and they’re happy – majority of the time.

[JOE]:
Can we just pause there, because I was a foster care supervisor, and I started applying for other jobs after nine months of being a foster care supervisor. And I think the average foster care worker at least in Michigan, stays nine months I want to say it is. And it’s like, the training alone in Michigan is like a two-month process. So, you’re constantly, as a supervisor, dealing with people that have no idea what they’re doing with some of the most important cases in that family’s world.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah.

[JOE]:
So, the fact that you have tenured staff that want to work there, like, just talk a little bit about that. How did you, or how do you retain quality staff, build happiness? I mean, how does that all work in that world?

[BRANDY]:
I’m so glad you asked because I could nerd out on this for a really long time.

[JOE]:
Please do.

[BILLY]:
This will be fun, Joe,

[BRANDY]:
But in talking with different people that are the gurus in this, and I’ve been really lucky to be able to talk to some crazy, wonderful people that have been studying this for a long time. Dr. Paul Corona is one of my favorite people. And I’m excited because he will be on our podcast in June. But I’ve asked him that question…

[JOE]:
Wait, at the time of the release he has been in your podcast.

[BRANDY]:
Sorry, I’m sorry.

[JOE]:
{Unclear] couple of weeks ago.

[BRANDY]:
Oh, I shouldn’t have said that. Yeah, sorry.

[JOE]:
No, it’s all good.

[BRANDY]:
He has been doing this for a long time. And his answer to that question was relationships, that it all comes back to quality of relationships. And how are you – in your workplace – how are you with your coworkers, the people that are in your life all the time? What are you doing to work on those relationships? Because relationships will keep people in a workplace. And so that is one thing that I had no control over, it was done before I got there. The people that work there were best friends and they had each other’s back. And there was this family atmosphere, but it was like even deeper than that. It was like these were their ride and die people, you know, like we got your back, like we will cut somebody for you. And we continue to foster that, and we also continue to play. And I believe that is super important. And that’s kind of where the research is going for me, is play and fun at work. So that when you come out of a forensic interview, and you’ve heard a child tell what has been going on in their life, and you have games that are being played and competitions that are being played, and it’s really funny to watch just the difference that’s made in our organization, but then it is that sense of humor, that lightness, that not being offended easily. So, it comes down to your relationships at work and finding a purpose in what you do. And that gives a sense of empowerment to people and it keeps them coming back. And I don’t think it has to be something that’s world changing. It doesn’t have to be helping with child abuse. It can be anything that you feel I am making a difference, or I feel this is my calling. And when you have that sense of purpose, it drives you to keep coming back and you show more productivity, you have more engagement, you have more loyalty, you’ll see an increase in productivity and engagement when the person is bought in to purpose and relationships at work.

[JOE]:
It’s funny when you say relationships, because my experience as a foster care supervisor, there were relationships and I would love to know how you help develop healthy relationships because on my team, there was a 60 year old retired cop turned foster care worker, who he ended up having an affair with someone else that was a 30 year old woman that then they ended up getting married and it was just like, there was all these relationships that were very toxic. And it sounds like a lot of these people on your team are good friends, and so it’s already healthy. What can teams do to develop healthy connections that also, in that world don’t turn toxic?

[BRANDY]:
Well, that’s a good question. And I will say that I have done a lot of things wrong. So, if you asked the employees that same question, their answer would probably be very different. What I feel is one, we have a no gossip policy. That’s one, and I’ve broken it. And I’ve had my staff come and call me on it, like, hey, this is what you said, and you set it around people, and you shouldn’t have done that. And you’re one to say that we don’t need to do it, and yet you did it. So, there is that communication of we start holding each other accountable. Because we know when gossip is in the workplace, it’s toxic, it spreads very quickly. There is a lot of open communication and apologies, of owning our part, and that’s one thing that Billy has taught me is own your side of the street, clean your side of the street. I just had a thing this morning where I made a mistake and had to email the staff out and say, that is my fault. I did something wrong and I shouldn’t have, and I apologize, I made that call too quickly. And so, there is a lot of eating crow on certain things. But just being honest that we do make mistakes, and we are in relationships just like a marriage or with our kids, and we’re going to mess up. But we always say, but we have to give grace, we have to give grace.

And when we mess up too much, and it becomes habitual, or it becomes not willing to change, then your place is not here with us. You need to move on and go somewhere else where you can do what you need to do, because here we have a high standard because we have to check our egos at the door. We’re here to help kids. We’re not in it for ourselves. We’re going to play hard; we’re going to have a good time. It’s also taking care of your employees. So, I think there is this higher up – I know that sounds bad. I hate that term. But if it’s not coming from the leadership and you’re not willing to make mistakes and show that it’s okay to make mistakes, and it’s okay to apologize, and it’s okay to have a bad day, I think that’s letting people know that you’re human, you’re not perfect. Being transparent about a lot of stuff. And in my case, I’ve made the mistake of being too transparent sometimes and I need to be a motivator. So, it’s constantly this self-actualization and working on ourselves. And that’s something we implement in our monthly meetings and weekly meetings is, how are we working on ourselves and self-care?

[JOE]:
You had mentioned kind of early on that Billy helped you with understanding the importance of owning your mistakes. How has that helped your marriage in regards to just the way you relate to each other?

[BRANDY]:
Oh, I don’t do it in my marriage. It’s always…

[BILLY]:
Yeah, she’s always right.

[JOE]:
{Unclear] if that’s her business thinking, you know, maybe if she does it in business, she’ll bring it home.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, you know, Joe, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? That’s what I was told long ago. No, vulnerability. It’s not easy. It’s not always the easy path. It’s sometimes easier to stay guarded and stay withdrawn. But that’s not where the most alive, fulfilling relationships flourish. You know, vulnerability is that soil where good relationships grow, and it cost us something but it’s always worth it. And we try to go there, and like Brandy said, we don’t do it perfect. But just me getting to sit back and listen to her talk and admiring her for who she is in the world and what she gets to do and be impressed by my wife – that’s a good feeling. That’s a cool… being able to say that, and being able to say, I don’t have to be the guy everybody admires, man, shine a light on my wife, let her do her good stuff in the world.

[JOE]:
So, Billy, I want to hear more about when you discovered the term beta male because you guys have started this podcast, the Beta Male Revolution, and we’ve worked together on it, so I know a lot of that backstory. But talk about, like, for you personally, why do you resonate with the term beta male?

[BILLY]:
Well, it started out tongue in cheek and kind of as a joke. And then it’s gotten a little more serious. And then it goes back to being a joke again. But Brandy would always say, I’m her beta male. We had these friend groups, and we would always see kind of the more alpha partners group together and hang out and talk, and the more beta partners. And so, we saw how the group separated in conversations and we’re over here as the betas talking about emotions, and feelings, and relationships. And they’re over there planning our next adventure and what we’re going to do, and it was just kind of a clear distinction, and for the longest time for me, being a guy growing up, anything beta was not masculine. And so, I tried to fit in this world early on, in metal fabrication and construction, where it just wasn’t me. I was a square peg in a round hole. And I thought I had to be this bravado, loud guy who just came charging in, and that never wore well with me, it never fit well, it was always awkward, always dealt with that in very unhealthy ways and trying to be that kind of human being. And somewhere along the line, through a lot of mistakes, and addiction, and alcoholism, and recovery, someone gave me permission to be a beta male, and I began to admire people like that in the world that I would consider more beta, like Carl Rogers and Fred Rogers. and seeing how…

[JOE]:
All the [unclear].

[BILLY]:
Yeah, how these guys were bad asses in their own right, and they weren’t less of a man. They were…

[BRANDY]:
Different.

[BILLY]:
They were just different, you know, what does it even mean? You’re a person. And trying to be your best self, what does that look like? And me, learning who and what I am in the world and being that and being comfortable in that.

[JOE]:
And when you started to find comfort in that, Billy, was that before you and Brandy were married, or was that within, like, were you already married when you started to, like, accept that identity or embrace that identity?

[BILLY]:
Hmm, that’s probably been in the past seven years. So, after we met, and, yeah, after a lot of struggle, and a lot of dysfunction, and a lot of uncomfortable situations and conversations. The same way with growing a practice, I usually change when things get painful enough that I’m kind of forced to change. And I don’t know why that’s always kind of been the main motivator for me, discomfort, and pain and struggle, but I had to get to that place. So, I’m grateful for it, to have the energy to make the changes I needed to make to be who I am today.

[JOE]:
And Brandy, what was that like for you to watch that happen, where he kind of embraced that beta maleness while you were in the relationship?

[BRANDY]:
I think it’s still happening. And it’s an adjustment for my mindset because growing up with very alpha dads, and being around alpha men, it’s still… I’ve realized how much has been ingrained in me about what a man should be. And I have to still work on that. So, when he doesn’t fix something in the house, like there’s a leak and he doesn’t fix it, I get immediately ticked off, like, why aren’t you fixing this? This is what men do – fix it. And I have to work on myself. So, I think that’s been what’s really changed, and watching him change is making me change, and making me more aware of traditional roles that I put on him. And that was a lot of the strain, was I was asking him to do things he wasn’t comfortable doing and wasn’t naturally something he wanted to do. And watching him become a father, and how he parents our kids is beautiful, because I’m the one that’s like, hey, let’s go outside, let’s do this, let’s get this done, we’ve got these projects to do. And he’s the one sitting there talking with them and making them feel safe and comfortable and having that ear. So, it’s a learning process still for the both of us.

[JOE]:
I had a moment last night where my betaness came out – it was in improv. So, I’m in an improv troupe, and right now, we’re doing it all online. And we were just checking in as to what we did. This one guy, who’s hilarious and funny, and I don’t… I know he does a lot of kind of fix it up type of stuff, but he said, today, I climbed down into a well and repressurize the well for the house. And I was just like, what did you climb into? And then he used all these terms like, that we all should know and like, half the people, you know, and it’s male and female, were like, oh, yeah, I know what that is. And I was just like, I don’t even know what that sentence means, and I have no desire to know what it means. I would rather pay somebody to fix my well then to figure that out on a Saturday.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, yeah, I always tell Brandy, I’ve got a guy, or a girl.

[BRANDY]:
I’ve got a person.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, I’ve got a person; they can come help us out with that.

[BRANDY]:
I think that was in our marriage vows. Like he wasn’t going to ask me how much I spent on my hair. And he vowed to me that he would make enough money to where he could always call somebody to fix something, because that is not what he did.

[JOE]:
Oh, man, that’s awesome that it’s like, in the vows.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah.

[JOE]:
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[JOE]:
So, let’s kind of break down like, what a beta male is, because I think that may be a new term for a lot of people. And I know that you’ve spent a lot of time as a couple as you’ve launched this podcast, of clarifying who are the beta males and their partners that you’re attracting on the podcast, but then even outside of that with your course and everything else you’re doing. So, like, what is a beta male? What would be some of the quick bullet points of what defines a beta male so that our listeners can say, oh, I think I have some beta males that I’m working with.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, I think it’s guys who move through the world in a bit of a softer way, and a more gentle way, and have more of a gentle spirit and see things more empathetically and emotional… they’re kind of emotionally attuned, they tend to be super empathetic. They’re feelers, so that can be a great benefit sometimes but it also can be a negative attribute on the other side of the spectrum where they tend to get their feelings hurt a little too much so, you know, learning how to balance that in the world and do that. But yeah, it’s guys who like to sit down and listen, and get into the emotional side of things. And I realize not everybody’s like that, not everybody wants to do that and that’s okay.

[JOE]:
And what are some of the challenges typical beta males run into? Maybe Brandy, kick off this one for us.

[BRANDY]:
Well, I think part of it is they don’t tend to be very aggressive, and not necessarily go getters all the time. They may need a push; they may need a shove. I think more sensitive is a thing; they are the feelers. And when you are not in a relationship where the other person is necessarily that, there’s a struggle there. And I think there’s a struggle for beta males with all alphas in their life if it’s not healthy, and that’s really what we kind of talk about, is the healthy and the unhealthy. And we all have tendencies of both, every one of us have tendencies of both, but some just are on the spectrum and lean a little bit more towards the beta, and some lean a little more towards the alpha. And it’s really trying to become healthy wherever you are and notice those triggers. So maybe sometimes too sensitive, not getting things done when they need to be, less aggressive when they should be, too much in their feelings. What else, Billy? I’m trying not to make it personal against Billy.

[BILLY]:
No, dig in. We just talked about vulnerability, authenticity. We can dig in there, you know, moving towards health. I really think at the end of the day, we kind of split the two in two, and it’s dualistic, and one’s on one end and one on the other but when both get healthy, I think they’re right there in the middle and they look a lot the same. They want the same things in the world. What do we want? We want happiness, we want peace, we want good self-esteem. We want to move in the world in a way where we’re our best self, but we also look out for others, and we take care of our neighbor, and we do those types of things. And I think both can get there, and then you really can’t tell the difference.

[JOE]:
I’d love to hear how you went from just this being a discussion about maybe Billy’s personality to saying, we should start a revolution. We should start a podcast and get this out there. I want to hear about the behind the scenes conversations of how that happened, because we talked a little bit about it when we were at Killin’It Camp, but it really seemed like things… like, I don’t know how that went from, we’re talking about a beta male, to we want to start a podcast and have this be a whole new arm of what we do.

[BILLY]:
That’s kind of funny because Brandy… it was really Brandy’s idea and sitting down with you…

[JOE]:
The alpha had the idea? Shocking.

[BILLY]:
Go figure. She made it to a pop-up session that you did at lunch in Estes Park, and she came back with this idea and it just kind of rolled off her head. And she’s like, you know, her beta male and talking about her beta male, and then through working with you, and consulting, and you challenging us to grow in these ideas, it became Beta Male Revolution. And it’s kind of funny that a beta… it’s kind of a play on words because what beta male is really going to start a revolution? We’re not revolutionary, in and of ourselves, but I see every revolution starts with pain. But if it’s going to be sustainable, if it’s sustained, it’s through healing. So, the pain is, where do I fit in the world? Who am I? What’s my identity? Is it okay to be this way? And then, you know, we sustain this ongoing conversation through healing and how do we become our most healthy selves? But I’ll let Brandy talk to the fact of sitting down at lunch and, you know, it was just kind of that intuitive idea that popped in her head.

[BRANDY]:
Well, I really never thought he’d go for it because it’s change. And it’s risky. And I thought, I’m gonna say this to him, and he’s gonna be like, no, no, no, I can’t do that.

[BILLY]:
I probably listed all the reasons why we shouldn’t.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah. And he was like, yeah, let’s do it. But it came from your pop-up session. I was…

[JOE]:
Let me define what those are. So, at Killin’It Camp anybody can host a pop-up session. And so, the idea is that, you know, you go to music festivals or things like that, where people will have a drum circle at their campground, or they’ll be jamming, or whatever. There’s all these things that aren’t on the schedule. And I wanted that feel at the conference where if someone’s inspired to talk about blogging at lunch, that they can say, hey, if anyone wants to talk about blogging, if anyone wants to talk about podcasting, like, we’re going to be talking about it. So, then we would announce that at Killin’It Camp and say, here’s all the extra things not on the schedule that are happening. And so, one of those was me hosting a discussion on podcasting, because at that point I was thinking, do I want to do some more consulting on that? Do I want to launch this eCourse? Is there even a market for it with these people that are here? And wanting to get some good quality information. So that’s what Brandy is referencing when she says pop up sessions.

[BRANDY]:
Yes. So, we went, and everybody was kind of asking you questions and giving their ideas. And I’d had this in the back of my mind, because I always refer to Billy as a beta male, and so does our friend group. But he has just fantastic stories, and he’s funny, and he’s kind and good and has this… sometimes I call him my little Buddha, because he just can have these nuggets of wisdom. And I thought, why isn’t he sharing it? But I knew in the back of my mind, if I didn’t do it with him, he would never do it. And so, I was trying to find this twist of like, how to get him talking. And so initially, I thought, well, I’ll do My Beta Man, so that he could come on and I could just have him tell his stories and talk, and kind of share his good advice or his good wisdom in counseling. But then it turned into something else which I love, is that when we work with you, we watch how it forms and where it goes. And it’s this living thing that breathes and morphs and changes. And so, it’s just kind of been a journey from then on.

[JOE]:
Well, I think one of the things I observed early on was when it was My Beta Male, it was kind of positioning Brandy as the leader. Whereas your power as a couple is the dynamic of the polarity that happens, and it’s hilarious and it’s engaging, and you guys can go really deep, but you guys can go really light. And I just think that if your title positions it that it’s sort of Brandy’s podcast, then that just doesn’t give the same oomph as this is the two of you sorting out your crap publicly, and exploring things with other experts and other beta males and other couples, like, it’s just so engaging of a podcast. I’m really excited to see how it continues to grow.

[BILLY]:
Yeah.

[JOE]:
Early on I remember it being kind of challenging to work together. I think you guys said something like this is bringing out the worst of our marriage, or something along those lines. I’m interested in why you think that happened, but then also how you got through that.

[BILLY]:
Well, I think we knew it was going to be a challenge. But Brandy is very busy in her work, I stay very busy in my work, we have three young children. I teach at a university and Brandy has other things she does in the community. We had all these things pulling us apart in our life, and it seemed like we were getting further and further apart. And the thing that really excited me, being the emotional guy, the feeler was, this is something that’s gonna pull us together; put us in a room face to face. And I thought it might be tough, but I didn’t realize how tough, because there’s probably a lot of conversations we had not been having over the years that this forced us to have. It’s been a healing process. It’s been good. It’s been hard. There’s been ugly days where things got nasty. But one thing I love about Brandy, and us, is that we always come back around to, at the end of the day, we’re here for each other and we have each other’s backs and we sit down and have conversation.

[BRANDY]:
Okay, that’s very nice. But let’s get down to… what it came down to is, I like things done one way and he likes things done one way. And our first huge argument was because he wanted everything to be perfect.

[BILLY]:
I wanted to be in the moment.

[BRANDY]:
And he wanted to feel the podcast, and mine was like, you just gotta suck it up and do it sometimes, we’ve got to rip it. And he was like, I need to feel connected. I need to feel at peace. I need to… and so, I kept waiting, like okay, we need to record, we need to record, and he was like…

[JOE]:
Like, the muse has to arrive.

[BRANDY]:
Yes. Yes.

[JOE]:
{Unclear] idea in writing, where you just write every day just to get the bad stuff out and you don’t wait for the muse to show up. But then other people are like, I want this muse to tell me what to say.

[BILLY]:
And that’s where consulting came in, and why it was so important because we sit down and we talk with you, and I ended up getting called out. And it’s kind of like, you can’t always wait for the feeling to show up. Sometimes you just have to step in there and go for it. And if I wait… and that’s my problem – waiting. I’m waiting for the perfect moment. I spent a lot of my life waiting. But this is really challenging me and calling out deeper parts of me to step up to the plate and learn how to just get things done. So, the process is so much more than just a podcast. It’s a learning exercise in how to be in the world.

[JOE]:
Yeah, and there’s so many more things I think that we could cover. So, it’s a good thing that you have an awesome podcast people can listen to. Just a couple other things I want to ask is for people that are considering doing a podcast, what are just a couple quick tips that you have for them in regards to mindset, in regards to doing it? What would you advise them? Because we have a lot of people that have huge skill sets that the world needs, but they’re still only seeing people individually. And in my opinion, we need more high-quality people out there podcasting and giving good content to the world because there’s so many unlicensed coaches and people with just crazy opinions that do podcasts. And it’s not that well-grounded, research-based type of podcast, or type of education. What would you suggest to people that are considering a podcast?

[BILLY]:
You know, it’s going to be more difficult than just plugging in a mic and talking into it. So, I would always encourage people to find someone with a system, a consultant, and accountability. I know we really needed that to allow it to be sustainable, to work through our fears, our insecurities, to have people to talk to. So I mean, you have to find some system to work within where you have people who support you, encourage you, tell you how to do the little things that you just don’t know how to do, like, get your sound right. You know, how do you add in music? All these overwhelming, confusing things – it probably would have shut us down early on, had we not had people who had already been there and helped walk us through it.

[BRANDY]:
I would say, sign up for one of your…

[BILLY]:
Podcast Launch School?

[BRANDY]:
I think too, Joe, when we had an idea, we were able to come to you and it would have been very easy for you to say, yeah, that’s a bad idea. Like, that’s not gonna… but you’ve got the experience and you’ve got a network and you’ve got… and I’m not plugging it. I am. But I’m not. Because we wouldn’t have been where we are if we wouldn’t have had somebody that knew what they were doing. So, we had an idea. I didn’t know if it was good or bad. And when I talked to you, you’re like, yeah, it could go in this direction, it could go this direction. I was like, oh, we might have a good idea. And we may still not, I don’t know, but I think it was a good idea. And so, when you have experts in the area, use them. It’s hard to go out there on your own. But when you’re doing it with a group of people, when there’s accountability, when there’s people that have expertise and have been there before, you have somebody to ask questions to.

[JOE]:
Well, thanks for that shout out. That wasn’t something I expected, but I definitely appreciate.

[BILLY]:
Just being honest, Joe.

[JOE]:
Yeah. So, any of you listening that are interested in our Done For You services, the quick version is that we do all… we have four sound engineers, we have a whole show notes team, we have a transcriber, a copywriter, everything is done for you, except for, you know, the speaking and I help coach you as to how to do that. We build out an entire email course for you. And we only take on four people at a time. That’s why you haven’t heard me talk about it is we do cohorts of four so we can have podcasts that really we can invest in. And so, if you want to apply for that, I’ll jump on a phone call with you over at practiceofthepractice.com/apply. Also, if you’re looking for just an ECourse that will guide you, where you can put all the time in yourself, podcastlaunchschool.com, you can head on over there and get access to that as well. So, Billy and Brandy, the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

[BILLY]:
Oh, man, it’s something I learned early on in recovery. They told me, rule 62, don’t take yourself so seriously. I don’t know what the previous rules were, and I don’t know why it’s rule 62…

[JOE]:
You got 61 rules to get there.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, I have no idea. And I learned early on, don’t ask questions. Just listen to the old guys who’ve been around a while, and you’ll learn more than you realize. But they taught me not to take myself so seriously. And that’s where a lot of my pain came from, was in this deep brooding seriousness I had. And I learned to take on the lightness in the world, and the laughter, and the dance, and the fun, and the play. I mean, I don’t get too caught up and I’m a therapist, and I help people do this and that, yeah, I do that in the world. But at the end of the day, I’m just being me. And I try to hold that pretty lightly. That’s for me. What about you?

[BRANDY]:
I am not a therapist, but I will say, living with one, I will say the thing I love that you say to your clients, that I love that you say to people who need help, is that you’re one of God’s kids, and he’s crazy about you. And just know that people are okay, and you’re loved.

[BILLY]:
Yeah.

[JOE]:
Wow. Well, if people want to listen to the podcast, and you also have a course you’re giving free access to, so tell us a little bit about that course and then how people can get access to the course and to the podcast.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, betamalerevolution.com, and you just click on the link and go down to courses. You can put your information in, and you’ll get our emailed course sent out to you. And it’s just about learning how to live in authenticity. It’s creating a community where we can learn to be our best selves. So if you relate to being a beta male or if you have one in your life and you want to know about it, if you’re a therapist and you’re working with some guys like this and you want to know how to relate to them, I think it’ll be good information just to pick up, to learn about other people. Or if you need to learn about yourself and get comfortable in your own skin, sign up for the course.

[BRANDY]:
There’s a quick quiz you can take…

[BILLY]:
Oh, yeah.

[BRANDY]:
And see how far on the beta scale you are.

[BILLY]:
That was real high-pitched.

[JOE]:
I was totally gonna call you out on that, Billy, but then you called yourself out.

[BILLY]:
You know, I know where it’s about to come from. I get a look from Brandy like, yeah, that was a beta voice there, what’d you do?

[JOE]:
And honestly, you just call it out. It’s just like improv, you know?

[BILLY]:
Just roll with it, man.

[JOE]:
It’s even funnier when you call out your own self. So, betamalerevolution.com, you can go there. Also, you can search on iTunes or your favorite player of podcasts. Thank you so much, Billy and Brandy, for all the work you are doing, and for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast.

[BRANDY]:
Thank you, Joe. We appreciate you.

[BILLY]:
Thanks, Joe. Thank you for everything.

[JOE]:
Don’t you just love their dynamic? I just find that so entertaining on their podcast, how they just get along, but they push back and they… it’s just really entertaining. And so, if you want to listen to their podcast, you can go over to betamalerevolution.com and you can listen to their podcast, search for it on whatever social media player you like the most. And special thanks to TherapyNotes; TherapyNotes is the premium electronic health record out there. Use promo code JOE if you want to get those extra months for free. If you want six months for free, and you join Next Level Practice, just once you purchase, forward that over to me, and we’ll forward that on to the people at TherapyNotes that we have a contact with. They don’t actually provide us a code because they don’t want it to get out there it’s so valuable. We do all this negotiation for Next Level Practice to get all sorts of free things with, like, Brighter Vision, and Social Genie, and TherapyNotes, and Gusto, so that you get all these extra kind of addons as part of your hundred bucks a month that you pay – actually less than that, because it’s $99 a month. If you are interested in that, head on over to practiceofthepractice.com/invite. We do have a cohort that’s opening on August 24th. So, make sure you jump into that; it’s only open for four days. And we are only opening it in August, and I think in late 2020 one more time. We’re only launching it three times a year now. So, if you want to be in Next Level Practice you’ve got to jump in during those times. Thanks so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have an awesome day.

Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music; we really like it. This podcast is designed to provide accurate, authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.