Joe Sanok 00:00:00  You're someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You're also someone who would prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else's story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. Again, that's practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Sarna session number 136. I'm Joe Sandbach. You're hosting. Welcome to the practice of the practice podcast, where we're helping you build a thriving private practice you absolutely love. And for me, part of that is really just learning from business experts and other people that are different from myself and how they work with teams, what they're teaching people on teams.

Joe Sanok 00:01:22  even just if you look at the last, say, 20 or so episodes, we had people from my team do a ton of just really awesome, podcast. So for example, starting in early November, we had Nicole talking about what to do when referrals are slow. And then Andrew talked with us about HR basics, and then we had a whole series on client retention and another series on scaling. these are all team members that are consultants with the practice practice team. So if you're interested in potentially doing consulting with one of those team members or with me, you can apply over at practice of the practice.com/apply, Maybe as you were listening to some of these shows, you're like, oh my gosh, I want to work with Nicole or Andrew or Ash. so there's just a lot of great teachings that you may have missed over the last month. So go back to episode 1114, and we've got all of last month where members of our team doing all sorts of teachings in a variety of different ways. well, I am so excited today.

Joe Sanok 00:02:21  today we have Samara Zelnick who is joining us. Samara helps leaders unlock their potential through coaching in emotional intelligence, communication and resilience. And after a decade in fashion, she shifted to coaching VP and C-level leaders in various industries and is a partner at the coaching and consulting firm evolution CE certified and founder of the Shift Academy. She's been featured in Forbes, Business Insider, and more. Based in LA. Samara also hosts wellness retreats and works with high performing women. Samara. Welcome to the Practice and Practice podcast.

Samara Zelniker 00:02:59  Hi Joe, thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Joe Sanok 00:03:02  Yeah. Me too. Well, I got to start with a decade in fashion and then switching to coaching. How that happened.

Samara Zelniker 00:03:10  So, you know, I grew up with a family in the fashion business and it was kind of always around me. My brother and I often joke that growing up in our household was like receiving an MBA, because both of our parents were entrepreneurs. And so it was always kind of the there in the backdrop.

Samara Zelniker 00:03:27  I actually studied psychology and dietetics in university and, you know, decided to go into the family business and do that for, yeah, a little under a decade. And as I mentioned, you know, ultimately I learned so much about what it meant to run a business. And I'm so grateful for that because there were so many different facets, from sales to marketing to, you know, running a profit and loss setting and budgeting and traveling. And, you know, it had kind of all those trappings of success and ultimately was being groomed to take over the company. But I realized actually, I was traveling for a sales meeting in Brazil, and I stepped down. I was at the airport to board my flight home, and I broke my foot completely out of nowhere. And what that did for me was it made me realize how important health and wellness was in my life when I couldn't move, right when I couldn't be active. And that set me on a journey of self-discovery. I ended up enrolling in a yoga teacher training once my foot was healed, and from there starting to teach yoga.

Samara Zelniker 00:04:33  I was a typical A-type person who I was like, oh, I'm not going to actually teach. I'll just get better at yoga. I had a practice for ten years that was never spiritual. It was only ever physical. And once I did that training and then I did a service mission in Africa, I was like, wow, this is.

Samara Zelniker 00:04:52  So.

Samara Zelniker 00:04:53  Powerful because a lot of it was actually really rooted in leadership development, and it created such a massive shift in me. And then just the experience that we had with all the other teachers and the participants, and the program was so significant that I ended up leaving my job in fashion and starting my company, Mindfulness Matters. And that was like over a decade ago. So I think, you know, it was a bit of life experience. It was a bit of allowing and giving myself permission to do what was there. You know, a lot of the work that I do with clients now, I always call it a unlearning as opposed to a learning.

Samara Zelniker 00:05:31  Right? Because a lot of times we put so many conditions on ourselves of what we think we should do or be. And so my natural path was to work in this business and take over this company and, you know, have X, Y, and Z. But that wasn't like my truth. And so I think part of that was the allowing process and what it took for me to get there.

Joe Sanok 00:05:53  Yeah, I think that's awesome. no, I think a lot of people, when they when they start to shift into something different, you know, especially therapists, you know, they feel like, you know, I have to go to school. I have to get all the trainings, I have to do all these things. And then sometimes, it's just as much people, you know, and opportunities, you see when you are starting to, to shift towards doing coaching with VP and C-suite level leaders. was that something that you knew you wanted to do pretty quickly? Was that something that you had to kind of build credibility in that space? Like what did that look like?

Samara Zelniker 00:06:26  Well, I started my coaching practice, so I, you know, I got into the wellness space, as I mentioned, through yoga.

Samara Zelniker 00:06:31  And, you know, when I got in through that modality, it was it was very rooted in leadership development. So although there was an awesome hour of movement practice, it was also like, how are we shifting the way you're thinking about things and ultimately your actions and ultimately your life? And I you know, I from there? did you know, I believe very much in education as well. And I studied, quite significantly through the Institute of Integrative Nutrition and then search Inside yourself, which is the leadership development program at Google. And I think that as coaches and practitioners, there's always more to learn. And then there's also like trusting your intuition and your gut that like, I have a lived experience and I'm also taking this education and I'm bringing it forward. And so the shift, which is the program that I created that helps high achieving women create a shift and change in their life started because I did that with my life. Right. So it started from my own personal experience and my own self-discovery.

Samara Zelniker 00:07:32  And then I was like, once you know better, you do better, right? And so if I was able to shift my life and get all these things that I've wanted and like dreamed up for so long, it feels only right to help other people do the same. And so it started that way, and it started simply of like, hey, I have this thing that you want. And, you know, I always advise clients to work with people, especially in the coaching space that have something that you want, right, and like allow you to that will help you get there. And so that started it started like that. You know, it started like, okay, I'm working with these high achieving women because that's who I am. I'm working with this A-type women because I'm a recovering A-type woman. You know, I'm a recovering someone who is a people pleaser or put so much pressure on myself or suffered from perfectionism or, you know, analysis paralysis or things like that. And so once I started working with a steady stream of, I would say, mostly women, there's some men in there, too, but a steady stream of women who I saw the impact and the shift that it created in their life.

Samara Zelniker 00:08:40  It just continued to create confidence in my abilities and what I can do. And then Coupling that with, as I mentioned, you know, the background that I had in fashion and running businesses. And, you know, I worked at a health tech company in San Francisco and just it was very gradual. But I think that because that was my background, it made sense to then want to work with that level of person as well, from a place of really taking like accountability and control of your life and, and, and also seeing the impact that when you do work with people in an organization, it affects the whole organization. You know, it's like when I work with individual people, which I love, I'm not also necessarily coaching their partner or their mom or their sister or their friends. Whereas in an organization, you get to work within a system and you can coach several executives. And so it all kind of has an impact on each other. And so there's there's a power in that.

Joe Sanok 00:09:38  Now you have an approach when you're working with teams that I'd love to dig into.

Joe Sanok 00:09:43  I we hit? will you break that down for us? And then maybe we can dig into different aspects of it?

Samara Zelniker 00:09:49  Sure. So as as you mentioned in the bio, I'm a partner at a coaching consulting firm called evolution, and we work off of, several different philosophies, one of them being Fred Kaufman's philosophy around conscious leadership. And that encompasses this I we in it I meaning, you know, in order to create any sort of shift or change, we it starts with us, right? It starts with like turning that mirror around and looking at how we're operating our mindsets, our ways of being, our belief systems. you know, the, the interpersonal work. And once we've done that work, then we get to look at the we okay, how are we relating to other people if we're a manager or a leader within the organization, how does that rub off on our team? You know, what are the systems that we're putting in place or how are we giving and receiving feedback? Or what is it like to hold space for somebody or to help them grow in foster within their career, or to motivate others or to be empathetic? you know, so so we were on that component and then that shifts into the it, which is really like the business functionalities.

Samara Zelniker 00:11:03  And you know, I mentioned a little bit about the systems, but this is a lot of like the systematic ways of approaching business and understanding that like that ultimately starts at the individual level. Right. And if we want to see success there, how do we track it back to ourselves? Because everybody matters when you're working within a business or an organization. And so those systems or performance reviews or like strategic way of looking at things, all are affected by how we're relating to others, which ultimately are affected by how we relate to ourselves.

Joe Sanok 00:11:36  Now, what are some things when we're looking at that? I, before we move more into the kind of the we and it. that that really like when we're focusing on ourselves in this model. are there specific ways as we walk into leadership when we, when we're helping build our team and have them focus on the AI? are there specific exercises or mindsets that are helpful to bring us back to ourselves?

Samara Zelniker 00:12:01  Yeah, I mean, there's so many different there's so many different things that I think it's specific to, you know, what it is that you're dealing with or what it is that you're wanting to.

Samara Zelniker 00:12:14  I don't know, of course, correct is the right word, but optimize is a better word. You know, when I look when I do that work with clients, it's like looking, taking like an audit of their life and looking at different areas and seeing like, what is feeling good right now and what isn't right. And anything from like home environment to your relationships, your relationship with money to your physical wellness, to, your social life. Right. And so it's like really kind of looking at things from a holistic point of view and getting a sense of like what feels good and what is it, because so much of the time we're on autopilot, right? Like we are just going through the motions and doing things in a, in a way that we've always done them, because that's what's easiest. And sometimes we don't even realize that that's what we're doing. But it's just the reality. And our brains are these crazy supercomputers that are doing so much for us all the time that they want to take the path of least resistance.

Samara Zelniker 00:13:13  And sometimes that path of least resistance is a story we've been telling ourselves for 20 years, you know, and as a result of an experience that happened when we were at this foundational age of 2 to 6, and maybe our parents or someone didn't pay attention to us in the way that we wanted, and we made that mean that we're not valuable or we don't have that level of self-worth. And so part of it is the excavation process of understanding. Like where am I telling myself a story versus what's real? And then also, you know what? Where are my actions supporting that? You know, I work with a lot of women who are like on the verge of burnout or are in this place where they haven't set boundaries at work because they don't feel like they can, and they think that they're in that place for a reason. And although that belief has gotten them to a certain place, it's also not what's going to get them to the next level because it's not working right. I used the example often.

Samara Zelniker 00:14:12  If you have too many tabs up on your computer, it's just going to start to run really slowly and ultimately will conk out. And so it's getting a little bit more clarity on some of those behaviors that you've adopted and ways to do that. So like practices are, you know, not reinventing the wheel. I say this to everyone. It's like people have been doing this for thousands of years, but it's introspection practices, right? It's like adopting meditation or journaling, or making sure that you're getting time alone, or getting out in nature or moving your body, you know? And so it's it's coming back to some of those fundamentals in order to get a little bit of space.

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Samara Zelniker 00:16:15  Yeah, absolutely. So you know, if we if we look at the we component of things, it's like we're all especially when you're working within a team or an organization, it's like we're working together.

Samara Zelniker 00:16:26  We don't want to work in silos. Right. That's the whole point is that there's collaboration. There's cross functionality between different teams, and that it's like all of us working together that create this final product or service or whatever it is that we're really proud of, and having that, piece or that component to what we're doing, like all sync up has a lot to do with our self-awareness practices, right? It has a lot to do with, like, how we're approaching things. Because ultimately, as someone in leadership, let's say you're managing a team. There are going to be situations where you're feeling triggered or there are going to be situations where there's miscommunication, especially if you're working in a hybrid workforce, which so many of us do in this day and age. And things can be misconstrued. And, you know, all of that happens. And so it's coming back to, okay, well, we'll how do we want to approach this? And what does it look like to like almost like step into an observer mindset and understand like what's happening as opposed to like only taking something personally or reacting in a way that we're not proud of.

Samara Zelniker 00:17:35  yeah. So there's you know, that's kind of just one example, but things like that happen all the time because what makes up a business is people, right? And what's making it people is feelings and emotions and ways of being. And like I said, stories and deciding between fact facts versus fiction and just having a little bit more clarity there.

Joe Sanok 00:17:53  Now when we're looking at kind of bridging the wi, what are some kind of things that especially therapists that have private practice teams. So we're talking they may have, you know, ten clinicians, 20 clinicians. so it's kind of starting to get maybe a little squirrelly, you know, the things that they did when they're growing from 0 to 5 or 5 to 10. a lot of that's kind of bootstrapping when they start to look at larger teams. You know, a lot of our practices may max out of 50 to 100 clinicians. You know, what can they do to to focus in on that? We a little bit more.

Samara Zelniker 00:18:25  So when we think about the we it's really also coming back to, you know what results do you want to have? You know what is fulfillment feel like? How effective are you for your clients? Or, you know, depending on the service or product that you're offering? And so I think it's it's that comes back down to the I and and the we, which is your values and your systems and ways of thinking about things.

Samara Zelniker 00:18:51  And so it it all ties in one to the other. And so it's, it's a way of getting clarity when you're looking at it from a strategy perspective of like, what would success look like? And how do we base this on the things that are important to us?

Joe Sanok 00:19:07  Now, now when we're looking at kind of building that DNA as a team, what are some of the things that kind of help leaders be able to identify that? You know, because I think that, you know, the vision maybe I had for my counseling practice before I sold it. you know, I had this view that this practice, people can show up, they can make money, they can go home. We're not going to be some, you know, family that hangs out and wastes a whole bunch of time outside of the actual kind of billable hours. And in retrospect, I think I missed out on some relationships that I missed out on. You know, more emotional connection with my team, probably. You know, people are more willing to just jump to another business because of that.

Joe Sanok 00:19:43  but as the team grew and grew, you know, different people had different ideas for for what the DNA of the team should be. You know, what are some ways to navigate that sort of thing?

Samara Zelniker 00:19:53  Well, I think it's really important to, like, set foundational work at the beginning of starting any sort of business. So that's like a vision values mission. Right. And so that can be something that like if it's your business, you create, I always suggest doing something with like a founding team, right. Because ultimately when you get clarity on values, mission and vision, then you can apply that to things like hiring and onboarding. You can apply that to things like performance. You can apply that to things like, you know, management processes or technical formats. And so getting clarity on that from an early on stage with your founding team is important, because then you're making sure that what you're putting out is like what they're picking up, so to speak. And then as your team starts to grow, you're attracting and other people who are in line with those philosophies as well.

Samara Zelniker 00:20:56  And so I think it's really like anything, it's about setting a really clear groundwork and then reevaluating. Right. Like coming back and like, you know, maybe in your mind, like you said, hey, I wanted to create a space where people didn't have to stay extra hours, and we were putting that time and energy into billable hours. But maybe the people on your team actually, like, really wanted to feel a sense of belonging or like they were a part of something, or like they did have this family dynamic, or maybe they didn't. Right. But that's where you get to check in and see and then have an understanding of do I want to adjust this and do I want to bring that back into like the interpersonal or the we piece of it where our communication style changes or we're creating more of a culture internally, or the quality of our relationships are deepening because that's actually what people want. And so it's a foundational process that we're constantly iterating.

Joe Sanok 00:21:50  And then what's the it from the I we it.

Samara Zelniker 00:21:54  So that's more of like the technical piece right. Like I said like the management process, the systems that we use, you know, it could be a little bit more of like the clinical or business aspect of things when we're approaching strategy, how are we doing that? And so, you know, when we think about like it comes back to like what we then have as a business, right, like the results that we're creating or the effectiveness that we're having on the market or that level of fulfillment. So it's a little bit more of like the businessy side of things that has to do with the AI and the WI.

Joe Sanok 00:22:31  So when people maybe aren't focusing on IUI, it what does that look like when they're doing it poorly.

Samara Zelniker 00:22:39  Well I mean I think with anything if we don't have like a proper plan in place or like, you know, there's a quote from Alice in Wonderland of, like, if you don't know where you're going, many roads will get you there. And so when we think about that and like that, we actually use that quote often when we're setting up OKRs with companies or like objectives and key results is you just it may not look the way you thought it was going to.

Samara Zelniker 00:23:07  And that's also okay. But there may be issues with hiring and firing like you're not attracting in the right people. They're not the right fit. You know, there's like time wasted. People aren't feeling like they're a part of like a culture or a zeitgeist that they're really proud of. Ultimately, that's then affecting the results on the clients or the patients, right? Because there's a misalignment in values or in systems that you're using. And so I think that a lot of time can be wasted. I think that there's, like a miscommunication ultimately to the end user, I think that the people that are on the team can also not have a strong identity or a sense of connection to the work that they're doing. So I think it just kind of becomes a little bit more chaotic from a cultural perspective.

Joe Sanok 00:23:58  And what are some examples of, of teams you've seen do this really well?

Samara Zelniker 00:24:04  Well, you know, there's so many different like, I have a lot of clients that I work with personally who are investing in this work and who have seen such a difference in their own leadership style by like investing in coaching and also investing in, doing leadership development as a team.

Samara Zelniker 00:24:21  So like what that's doing is it's creating a shared dialogue, right? Because like often when we're team members, you know, we think a sometimes we think we have to know everything, right? Which is like totally not true. Also, we can be like promoted to a role or position or be brought on. And we may be really good at the technical aspect of it, of like doing that, like digital marketing or doing that, you know, specific title or role. But we're less good at managing people because we never really learn how to do that. Right. Or we're less good at sharing our own vulnerabilities or asking for help when we need it, because we weren't really taught to do that. So a lot of the times it's the technical skills that may get you in the door, but it's really the learning on EQ that helps you rise. And so it's teams that I see that are investing in this kind of work and willing to get vulnerable with each other and saying like, yeah, okay, we never really learned this stuff.

Samara Zelniker 00:25:21  And like, we have, you know, an overarching goal that we want to continue to grow and learn and expand, and we want to do that together. And so we're making this a priority. And yeah, like an evolution. You know, we've worked with really big systems like Slack and Dropbox and radiology partners, to to smaller businesses to like, you know, we work with Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and, you know, I'm working with a great ultrasound tech school right now called Smith Chase in college. And then another organic chicken farming company called Pasture Birds. So there's just, it kind of runs the gamut of small to medium sized companies who are doing this and doing this well, because they understand that it's such a viable part of creating culture, which ultimately leads to so much positive within the business.

Joe Sanok 00:26:14  well, the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Samara Zelniker 00:26:21  I think it would be something about getting out of your own way.

Samara Zelniker 00:26:25  So I think that as practitioners, we are vessels, you know, and we're there to hold space for people. And anyone who's chosen this career path is clearly someone who's empathetic and wants to help and like, wants to see their clients thrive. And I think that sometimes we can, like, get in our own way of that by thinking we need to, like, know the answer to everything, or, you know, say the right thing or whatever that looks like. And I think that like having some humility, like if you don't know the answer, even though clients are rarely coming to us for answers and really just coming to us to hold space or be that sounding board, it's just owning that and sharing that. And then also like understanding that people don't always get this opportunity to just like, share their innermost thoughts and dialogue with somebody else. So that in itself is just such a.

Samara Zelniker 00:27:15  Powerful.

Samara Zelniker 00:27:16  Tool and practice and it's enough, right? So I think it's just a reminder that, you know, getting out of your own way, what you're doing is amazing.

Samara Zelniker 00:27:25  You're creating and holding this space for people, and there's always more to learn and more to do. And as I mentioned, you know, I'm a big fan of education and continuing that. But it's also powerful to stand in your truth and to own what you do now.

Joe Sanok 00:27:39  So awesome. Samara, if people want to connect with you and follow your work, where should we send them?

Samara Zelniker 00:27:44  Yeah, so I'm most active on Instagram. I'm at Mindfulness Matters, also have a LinkedIn profile, which is my LinkedIn and my name, first and last name Samara Seliger. yeah. That's that's where you can find me. We have a mindfulness toolkit on our website, which is Mindfulness Matters. Okay. Which is a great way to kind of just get to know us a little bit better. And then we have wellness retreats that we host. So we have another retreat coming up in Costa Rica, next year around this time. so you can sign up. You can apply for that if that feels resonant to you.

Samara Zelniker 00:28:18  And yeah.

Joe Sanok 00:28:20  Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the practice of the Practice podcast.

Samara Zelniker 00:28:24  Thanks so much for having me. It was a pleasure.

Joe Sanok 00:28:35  So no matter your phase of your team, I hope you're going to apply that I we it, it's a great framework to kind of think through where you're at personally, where you're at as a team, where you're at with your infrastructure. speaking of infrastructure, I don't know about you, but keeping track of progress notes and where the team is at can be quite a struggle. if you don't have the right EHR therapy notes is our recommended EHR for your electronic health records. They help with billing tele therapy. It's so seamless to switch over. I actually have a group practice I'm working with right now. that's switching over, and it's been such an easy transition for them. So if you are ready to switch over, maybe you are sick and tired of, you know, a lot of things going on in your EHR. the breaking point for my client was that their their clinicians went online and it said the system has been overloaded and the person couldn't do their counseling.

Joe Sanok 00:29:30  They had to jump into zoom, and it just was a nightmare. that shouldn't be the case with your EHR therapy notes that that doesn't happen. So use therapy notes.com. Use promo code Joe at checkout. Your feet get a couple months for free. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band Silences Sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter cover. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.