Joe Sanok 00:00:00 What are you doing? October 1st through third. I want to hang out with you just south of Nashville, Tennessee. Down in Franklin. I’m going to be key noting the Mental Health Marketing Conference, and I would love for you to be there. We are also sponsoring the clinical track, where there are going to be tons of amazing trainings, all for you in private practice. This is the national gathering for marketers and clinicians in mental and behavioral health. You’re not going to want to miss this awesome conference. It’s the one conference I’m keynote this year and you can read more over at MH marketing. Org. Also, Steve over at Mental Health Marketing has given 25% off to any practice of the practice. Listeners that want to come to this, whether you’re coming in person or online, you’re going to want to use promo Code Joe at checkout to get 25% off. I would love for you to come in person for my closing keynote on Thursday, October 3rd at the Mental Health Marketing Conference, but if you can come online, that works as well. Joe Sanok 00:00:56 Can’t wait to hang out with you in Tennessee again, that’s MH marketing. Org and use promo code Joe at checkout to hang out with me October 1st through third 2024. This is the practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sana. Session number 1021. I’m Joe Cenac, your host, and welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. You know, we are here every day helping you build a thriving practice you absolutely love. We want you to thrive. We want you to have those operations and the staff and the things that make it not be a headache for you, and be serving people that you love working with, that you show up at your practice and you say to yourself, I can’t believe this is my life. I can’t believe I get to do this. And you know, it’s funny because when I’m recording, it’s often way before when the episode goes live. So at the time of this recording, it’s actually before episode 1000, even though, you know, we’re at 1021 for this episode. Joe Sanok 00:02:06 so it’s interesting how time is. And right before this I was going through pictures and videos, that Miranda, our head of podcasting was going to be putting together for our thousandth episode. And I found this picture of me the first day that I had my mental illness counseling office, that I upgraded to this four office suite with a corner office view of the water. And I remember that place just, you know, as I decorated it and got to think about what do I want this to look like? I had been subleasing before that, even though I had three other clinicians working for me. but I didn’t have any control over the decorations, over how the place looked. And then to to look at this place and say, okay, I get to think about the lobby. I get to think about the welcome sign, the little refrigerator with tons of, you know, great drinks in it and all those things to level up into a group practice. And it was just like a fun thing to look back on and to find these pictures from. Joe Sanok 00:02:58 You know, when I did the Brewers practice event down in Asheville, or the most awesome conference out in California, and to just go through and bring that together and say, well, practice the practice. And you as a listener have been through a lot over the last thousand episodes. So, you know, a lot of those lessons learned when you’re starting a practice, you fumble through it. You do your best. You don’t know what you don’t know. and that’s where talking with people, whether it’s through this podcast or through consulting or joining one of our membership communities or someone else’s, can be so helpful to speed that up, to be around other people that have done this sort of thing before, which is why I’m so excited to have Nicole McCants, who is a psychologist that’s retired turned business coach for therapists, who is focused on scaling to a group practice. She expanded her private practice to 55 therapists and multiple seven figures in three years with toddler twins at home. Nicole sold her clinic in the fourth year and then retired as a psychologist in her fifth year. Joe Sanok 00:03:59 Now she teaches therapists how to help more people make more money and have more freedom following her proven method. Nicole, welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. Nicole McCance 00:04:07 Happy to be here. Joe Sanok 00:04:09 Yeah, I love hearing those kind of stories of starting a practice, scaling it, and then choosing to sell it. was that your vision when you went into starting your practice, or was that something that kind of crept in, or tell me about how that that went? Nicole McCance 00:04:24 Yeah, not at all. This was my baby. I literally had a vision of my kids. The twins are seven now working for me one day, like we do with our kids, right? Like I had this visualization that they’re going to help me scan the assessment files and all these things. But a psychiatrist approach me. You see, I help people build automated group practices that are revenue generating and run without them. And what happens when you build something like that? People come and knocking, and I wouldn’t have sold it to just anyone, but it was a psychiatrist that was important to me, healthcare professional who was able to actually provide even better things to my team, like pension plan, like benefits, like education fund. Nicole McCance 00:05:06 And that’s when I said, okay, you know what? If they’re going to be okay, then maybe I just have this ultimate freedom. Joe Sanok 00:05:13 Now I want to kind of dig into that mindset of building it automated outside of yourself, which I love. And so many of my consulting clients or people in group practice. Boss, their argument is the reason that this practice has thrived so much is because of my personal touch, because of my the DNA that I’ve put into this practice that, you know, it’s all about Nicole’s practice, that people know Nicole. they trust Nicole. And if Nicole’s not there, then, you know, the practice may just fall. so tell me about that kind of discrepancy and how maybe people tend to think about it. And then the reality of creating an automated operational practice. Nicole McCance 00:05:54 Yeah. So I think the first step and I so I as you know, I sold and I was sitting by my pool and going, oh my God, what do I do now? And then I said, wait, what if I become a business coach and teach them every single thing I did? Give them the marketing plans, give them all the systems. Nicole McCance 00:06:09 And that’s what I do now. But a lot of people come in to my six month business coaching program and say the exact same thing. Nicole and I was the same. My reputation was everything. It was literally my name that brought the people in. But what I help people do is shift from you to the brand, and that requires systems and it requires a whole process. But it is possible systems will set you free. So the shift is really important because if it’s only relying on you, then you don’t have an automated practice at all. You have a bit of a job. Joe Sanok 00:06:44 And what would you say in regards to mindset shifts that need to happen for people that think that I, as the owner, need to be hyper involved? Staff won’t stay engaged if I start to disappear, if I have all these operations, like, what would you challenge in regards to that mindset? Nicole McCance 00:06:57 Well, I think the word disappear is let’s talk about that for a second. You can let go of seeing the clients, and I help people with a bit of a process to do that. Nicole McCance 00:07:12 And your team is seeing the clients. But I think it’s really important in your SEO role to be very available to your team, that they’re your clients now. So you might not be doing therapy anymore, but you’re you’re connecting to your therapist in such a way that you know their personal goals, you know their career goals. Maybe they want to be a supervisor one day or do psych assessments. And if you can help them reach their goals within your group practice, why would they ever leave? So it’s definitely not disappearing. It’s just a shift where you can work from home more and have a way more time freedom. But you’re you’re still really connected because connection is everything when it comes to culture. Joe Sanok 00:07:59 Now if you’re connected and then eventually like you sold to a psychiatrist, how did you transfer that connection when you’re selling. Nicole McCance 00:08:08 Yeah. They look at three things when you’re selling. Just you know, one they look at profit. Obviously they’re not going to buy something that’s not sustainable and profitable to they look at team. Nicole McCance 00:08:18 Are these people going to stay. Well one predictor is how long have they stayed so far. So they go into the contract. They they look under the hood like all the things. And three is it systemize if you leave, will it run without you. But will the people stay. I think here’s the thing. I worked really hard at my team connecting to the vision. It was less about me and more about the vision. We’re in this big ship together and where are we going and what is our ultimate goal? And as long as they’re tied into that, then I can step away. Do you see that? Because it’s no longer about me. And that takes a whole lot of work. Joe Sanok 00:08:56 Yeah. Joe Sanok 00:08:56 Now, I know one thing that your practice did was really focusing on converting clients with consulting calls. and I hear a lot of discussion in our membership communities around this where some people say it’s a waste of time. Other people are arguing, you know, you don’t plan to talk to your primary care doctor if you’re switching to a new one to do a consulting call with them to see if they’re a fit, you just sign up for your your new appointment. Joe Sanok 00:09:20 and then on the other side, I hear people talking about, well, you know, it has that personal touch. It helps you connect. And, so tell me where you landed in regards to consulting calls and why you think that’s important? Joe Sanok 00:09:31 Yes. Nicole McCance 00:09:32 Okay. So let’s talk about converting using free consult cause you’ve worked so hard to bring them to your website. You paid for the marketing. They’re on your website now. I teach people to have book Now buttons and allow them to book a free consult call online You see, here’s the thing. We’re living in a world where people wait way too long for therapy. By the time they’re on your website, it’s actually far gone. You know that yourself, Joe, right? Like our arm is falling off by the time we’re like, I should call the chiropractor kind of thing. And so what I help people do is, okay, give them the dopamine hit, let them book themselves and book online, but book a free consult. But here’s the thing. Nicole McCance 00:10:15 Probably those that don’t love doing the consult calls don’t have some sort of system to convert. So here’s what I suggest one. Allow them to book on online and remove the admin. Remove the bottleneck. Don’t have them email. You see, somebody is much more likely to show up for the free consult call if a human being, if they booked it themselves and they know it’s with the human being, then just an email or contact form where it’s like the next day I’m actually feeling okay. And then they don’t respond to you. Yeah, allow them to book when they’re heightened and sitting in their own pain and they’re like, I need help now. Boom, I just booked my own appointment. That’s step one. Joe Sanok 00:10:54 So are they booking with the therapist they’re going to be working with, or are they booking with like an okay. And then so they’re booking with the therapist that they want to work with. My first question is if they don’t know who they need to work with or want to work with, what happens? Nicole McCance 00:11:10 I love Jane app. Nicole McCance 00:11:11 I’m in Canada, I work with 70% Americans, but I love Jane app because the online booking, it’s a practice management software that I’m converting a lot of the Americans do. And the reason is, is when they go to the online booking, they see faces. Warm faces are really important. It’s kind of like a mini psychology today. And there’s a bio right there in the online booking. Now, if you use therapy notes, simple practice, put in a feature request. Maybe you know you can turn that on. I think that’s really important. But they’re picking they’re reading the bios and they’re like, oh my gosh, just like Psychology Today this person is perfect for me and booked him Okay. Joe Sanok 00:11:48 So someone always books with a therapist. They don’t have like a general like I’m not sure who I want to work with. Nicole McCance 00:11:54 That’s a bit of a bottleneck. We tried both and I’ve, I’ve coached now over 600 people in the last two years. And here’s the thing. What ends up happening is you’re paying an admin. Nicole McCance 00:12:03 And by the way, if they’re booking themselves, you’re not paying an admin. So that’s extra cash flow that you can invest in more marketing. But what was happening and I don’t know if you noticed this is they’d still want the free consults. So they would speak with the person matching them, the intake coordinator. And then they’d say, can I have a consult? And so it was just allowing it was stretching out what I call the sales cycle. I know we hate sales, but just hear me out. So what’s happening is if you let people book on their own, they’re going to book faster. They’re going to get the help faster. You’re going to have that revenue flow in faster, remove the bottleneck. Joe Sanok 00:12:38 Now, I guess my next question would be, you know, when I think about my pre consulting calls for our team, I tried for a while having the individual consultants do the calls, and they were converting at like 40%, and I typically convert it like 80 to 90%. And I just realized it was just worth it for me, as the owner is the face of practice to practice the podcast or to do that now that’s different than, you know, say in a practice where the owner doesn’t need to be that face as much. Joe Sanok 00:13:05 But different people have different abilities to. I don’t like to use the term close, but like, how are you training all of your therapists to know how to do a good consult call? Nicole McCance 00:13:16 Oh my gosh, so important. Please don’t let them do it without training. Because guess what happens? Either they just don’t book or they do therapy. Like they don’t really know what to do, like you do, but you know what to do. So I teach people how to close. Let’s just use the word close for a second on the console call. But they I give them the system I can give. I can tell your people how to get it in a second. Number one, it really should be 20 minutes. The first 15 is rapport building, getting a sense of where they are, where they want to be. Sharing your approach the last five minutes, which is really key, is where you book not one, but four appointments. Allow them to commit to the whole month, and now your therapist is like they’re booked for that month. Nicole McCance 00:14:02 This is where you mentioned cancellation policy. This is where you take the consent for their visa and put it in the file and set them up for success. So that’s number one. But within there there’s actually a script. Yes, a script like a bit of an outline where I suggest you give your therapist and actually Joe, if, if you’re good with it, if your audience wants to send me a DM on Instagram, Nicole McCann’s method, just drop, like send me the word consult call script and I’ll send it to you. I’ll literally give you my proven script. That got me to 55 therapists. DM me Nicole McCann’s method. Just the word consult call script. But basically it’s a script where This may sound weird. I think the biggest thing that activates people to take an action and actually book four sessions, believe it or not, is getting them to sit in their own pain, the pain that they avoid all the time. So the script you’re going to see, that part of it is getting them to talk about agitate the pain that they’re in now, and then create the gap and let them talk about, well, where they want to be. Nicole McCance 00:15:10 So this is all in the script, and you want to train your people in it. Joe Sanok 00:15:14 Yeah I think. Joe Sanok 00:15:15 That’s, that’s really smart because so often our tendency as a therapist is to normalize, help people feel good and help them feel like they’re leaving and saying, oh my gosh, I got so much out of that consult call which has its place, but also they’re going to go back to that pain. They’re going to go back to how their marriage is not where they want it, that they’re going to go back to. They’re frustrated with their kids or where they’re at in life or whatever their thing is. And so to allow them to really talk about that pain and to see the need for counseling and see the need for coming in now. I love that you’re having them book four calls. I think that’s a great thing, having them, you know, secure it with the credit card on file. Now, are you paying the clinicians for that time, or is that kind of part of the onboarding? And they it’s a free call. Joe Sanok 00:15:57 And, you know, they take the hit. How does that part work. Nicole McCance 00:15:59 Yeah. So out of I had a really big team out of the 55 the majority were contractors. So we’re not paying them I know you call them 1099 if you have W-2s. Of course, every time a W-2 works, if they’re hourly, they need to be paid for that time. so but they would be paid an admin rate. you see, is it clinical? I think we could debate that. A lot of the therapists were like, you know what, just pay me my admin rate for a half an hour because it is a lot of admin. I’m following a script, I’m booking appointment, I’m going over cancellation. but that admin rate, that half, half the admin rate that you’re paying is well worth it because of course they’re motivated. If they get paid hourly to book that call because they only grow when you grow. Joe Sanok 00:16:43 Right, right. No. And I think having that non-clinical rate for therapists is smart. Joe Sanok 00:16:48 We’re seeing and tell me if you’re seeing this too, in regards to structure, that the percentage based model seems to be attracting people that actually want their own private practice. Whereas if you have a flat rate model where their hourly of counseling doesn’t fluctuate based on, you know, if the insurance is higher or lower or, you know, if different payments go up and down, are you seeing that as well, or are you still seeing a lot of people doing the percentage based model? Nicole McCance 00:17:14 I was 100 private, 100% private pay, and I help people grow seven figure private pay. Now in Canada, we’re just private pay over here. I’m in Toronto, by the way, but I help. So I would say about 70 now, maybe about 60% of my members are private pay and they are percentage, but it’s way easier if you’re in-network just to do a flat rate for sure. Joe Sanok 00:17:39 Yeah. We’re just seeing and I always like to ask other people in this work if they’re seeing that trend too, that even the private pay practices that are saying, you know, here’s the flat rate, that as a clinician you get, and then if you decide that you want to, you know, increase or decrease prices, that that’s on you as the owner and then people aren’t running that percentage in their heads saying, why am I giving them 50% when I could start my own practice and all that? Now I love. Nicole McCance 00:18:04 That, and in the end, though, it is a percentage like a flag. It is, you know? But yeah, I like that. But the marketing or like the way it’s messaged is flat rate. That’s good. Focus on like yeah, what they’re actually making. Joe Sanok 00:18:23 As a therapist, I can tell you from experience that having the right EHR is an absolute lifeline. I recommend using therapy notes. They make billing, scheduling, note taking, telehealth, and e-prescribing incredibly easy. Best of all, they offer live telephone support. It’s available seven days a week. You don’t have to take my word for it. Do your own research and see for yourself. Therapy notes is the number one highest rated EHR system available today, with a 4.9 out of five stars on Trustpilot. Com and on Google, all you have to do is click the link below or type promo code Joe on their website over at Therapy notes.com and receive a special two month trial. Absolutely free. Again, that’s therapy notes.com and use promo code Joe on the website. Joe Sanok 00:19:12 If you’re coming from another EHR therapy notes will also import your demographic data quick and easy at no cost, so you can get started right away. Trust me, don’t waste any more of your time and try therapy notes. Just use promo code Joe at checkout. So what are some of the things that when people like, you know, you had 55 clinicians? I think in the intro it said, you said, I mean, that’s an enormous amount of people. so what are some of the the mindsets? Because I feel like if we can change our mindset, we can change our behavior a lot easier. What are some of the mindsets that get in the way of people getting to that level? And let me just start with some of maybe what mine would have been. You know, I get up to 13 clinicians. When I sold my practice, I knew I just didn’t want to grow it, I was done. so some of the mindsets probably for me would have been like, like my, my community can’t handle a 50 person practice that’s like too big for my community. Joe Sanok 00:20:10 I would have probably thought like, oh, that’s too much management. I’m going to lose control of kind of the day to day. what other mindsets maybe you agree or disagree with what I just listed? what other mindsets tend to get in the way of clinicians going from five to 10 to 50 clinicians in their practice? Nicole McCance 00:20:30 Yes. Oh my gosh, Joe, honestly, if you were to tell me it happened in three years with my twins, like it was just a whole lot. But if you were to tell me, Nicole, you’re going to grow that big, I’d be like, oh, my God, that sounds exhausting. But here’s the thing. Go with the market flow. I literally had eight offices, and then the market said, no, we you know, we you want to I was listening to the market. They needed autism assessment, psycho neurofeedback, family therapy, child therapy. So then we went to 16 offices, but it wasn’t boom to 24 offices. It was eight. Nicole McCance 00:21:06 And then they were full. Then it was 16. And that helped with the overwhelm too, because it was like the pie is this big, okay. Now it’s this big. And I think that’s number one. But I became a master delegator. What if you could have something big and you could also have the freedom? Truly, if you create and delegate but find the best people, I think my best coaching is actually helping people find other people. And that’s using objective measures. because if you don’t trust your leadership team, then you won’t have the freedom. But if you put the systems in place and have a system to find the best people, then you, you know it will run without you. Joe Sanok 00:21:50 Yeah. Now when you, when you think about some of those early things you delegated maybe when you were at the, you know eight offices and you’re starting to grow. what were you delegating and what made it easier to delegate. Because oftentimes when I’m talking with consulting clients, they’re, they’re not even sure how to outsource. Joe Sanok 00:22:10 They’re not sure what they’re doing. It’s all in their head. What what helped you delegate quicker? Nicole McCance 00:22:15 First of all, we are so lucky. How did people do it in 1995 with no. Oh my. Joe Sanok 00:22:19 Gosh. Nicole McCance 00:22:20 Yeah. Oh my gosh. So it was like lean on that. I’m obsessed with loom loom loom. Com Google it. Yeah. What I did is I put everything in a Google drive. But here’s the best part because I know your audience is so busy, they just don’t have a moment to sit and take everything out of their head. So what I started doing is when I did a process that was new, let’s say it was we had a 48 hour cancellation policy or processing payment. I would do a loom as long as it wasn’t confidential info, a video of me doing a task I was going to do anyway, and then guess what? My admin, please hire an admin that’s going to get you to where you’re going faster. They would throw it in the Google Drive. Nicole McCance 00:23:04 So just literally as you go, the first thing I systemized was opening the clinic. And Joe, it was. So it was like number one, here’s a checklist. Turn on the salt lamp, turn on the diffuser, make sure there’s Kleenex in every room. Like literally it was like I give my members this because it’s all done for them. But it it was like just like moment by moment what people should do. But once you do that once and you delegate it to your admin, guess what? She’s now taking ownership of that manual and it’s not yours. If you answer a question, guess where the answer goes in the manual? Don’t answer a question twice. Joe Sanok 00:23:41 yes. Joe Sanok 00:23:42 And I feel like manuals when it when it’s not active, when it’s not engaging like a loom video is sometimes those policy and procedures, they get printed out, put in some place and nobody ever looks at it. Whereas when it’s agile, when it’s active, when it’s very clear, here’s the exact steps. It’s just so much more functional for people. Joe Sanok 00:24:02 I know for myself, typically I recommend that people start hiring when they’re about 60% full, with the rationale that, you know, it may take you a month to go through interviews. It may take another month for onboarding that you may be like two months out. Yeah. what numbers did you use as kind of triggers for hiring. Nicole McCance 00:24:23 As I was scaling. So I always suggest your first person should be a mini me, your very first person, because people are expecting a similar experience that you provide them. Right. And I made that mistake of hiring people different. And my clients didn’t want to move over. They were they wanted a bit of a clone of me. So that made it easier. But what I did is I paid attention to the market. And when we got inquiries, do you offer child therapy? We would begin to track. I always go based on data driven decisions and that would inform my next hire. But to your point, if we were hiring a person doing the same thing, let’s say a second eMDR person, we would hire exactly what you said around the 60% mark, where it’s like, okay, this person’s at the 60% mark, perfect. Nicole McCance 00:25:09 And expect it’ll take about a month or two to find your perfect person. Joe Sanok 00:25:13 Yeah. Joe Sanok 00:25:14 How did you deal with, the feeling of there’s always something to do. I think that early. Joe Sanok 00:25:19 On. Joe Sanok 00:25:20 A lot of group practice owners have a mindset of, at some point I’m going to feel like I can be on cruise control. And maybe they do. Maybe they say when I get to ten people and they’re full, I’m just going to hang tight for, you know, six months. Take a sabbatical. Who knows what they want to do? For a lot of people, they realize the potential and then they’re like, oh my gosh, our child therapist is full and we keep getting calls. I need to hire someone else. How did you personally deal with or how do you recommend people deal with that idea of, there’s always something to do in the business. Nicole McCance 00:25:48 When you’re in a growth phase, by definition, there’s always something. You’re climbing the mountain and I climb that mountain hardcore for three years and got to 55 therapists, but if I was to do it over again, Joe, I think I would cruise. Nicole McCance 00:26:02 I’m still learning that cruise control button of not found it yet, but like it’s not in my personality actually. But I wish you know there’s like enjoying in the mountain, just finding that one peak and being like, you know what, let’s just stop for a moment at 25 people and take a bit more vacations and slow down, you know what I mean? But for me, I was really committed to be home with my kids because I the reason I started a group practice was to be home with my twins earlier and and I held that it was like tied to what? Why am I doing this if I can’t leave out for. So every day I was in my hot tub by four, and then the kids got home right after. And so I was like, meticulous and so committed to that for me. But I think, part of it I want to pause right there. Joe Sanok 00:26:49 I want to pause because I think it’s so important to have those clear life boundaries. And so so I live a few blocks from the school that my daughter goes to. Joe Sanok 00:26:58 her school starts at 850. My sister lives in the neighborhood. So my earliest meeting is at 930, because I want to walk my daughter to school every day. I want to do it with my sister and my nieces. and then I want to walk down and pick her up. So she gets out of school. I have to leave around 345. So same sort of thing that I’m I know that there’s bookends to my day that when I’m working, it’s 930 to 330 and that’s the bookends. And I think that’s really important because then it forces you to do less. Even if you enjoy the work. And if you’re an achiever that, always sees the potential of doing more. because we can work all the time. But if we don’t have those clear, like, I’m going to be in the hot tub by four every day before the twins get home, and then it’s like, I four days a week, want to cook healthy meals. And, you know, one day a week we go out and like having those patterns in our life that feel as important as a counseling appointment or as a meeting with our team, I think is so important. Joe Sanok 00:27:55 So I just wanted to, like, pause you and underline what you just said there about being in the hot tub by for. Nicole McCance 00:27:59 Yeah, without question. Like there was no question that I would be there and everyone kind of knew. Yes. Because again, what is the point then? Are we just here to work and work and work? What is the point? So really the enjoyment and I was a better mom when I did that. I was a better leader when I did that. And so that was really key. If you tie it to that, it’s more motivating. Joe Sanok 00:28:20 Yeah. Yeah. Joe Sanok 00:28:21 Well, the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know. Nicole McCance 00:28:28 I’m going to share my mantra. Do it. Scared? If you’re like, oh my gosh, I, I’m so overwhelmed in my solo practice, I really want to hire and do this group thing. I know I’m meant for it. Do it. Nicole McCance 00:28:40 Scared. Successful people are terrified when they do the things I was to. But fear stops us and we tell ourselves, oh, I’m scared, so I should stop. But what if it meant that you could do it scared and get to where you’re going? Joe Sanok 00:28:54 Love that Nicole. If people want to connect with you, if they want to follow your work where should we send them. Nicole McCance 00:28:59 I have a free masterclass every single week if you want to come and hang out with me live, it is a level up to a thriving group practice. In six months or less I will give you the link. It’ll be in the show notes and I have a podcast you probably like podcast. It is called the Business Savvy Therapist. Joe Sanok 00:29:18 So awesome Nicole, thank you so much for being on the practice of the practice podcast. Nicole McCance 00:29:22 Thanks for having me. Joe Sanok 00:29:33 You know, I think this is such a good example of collaborating with people that do something similar to you. sometimes I hear people say, well, like, but that therapist also does eMDR. Joe Sanok 00:29:45 To me, it’s so important to just get to know people that are in the field. And Nicole’s serving group practice owners, we’re serving group practice owners. It’s important to disconnect and learn from other people. and there’s going to be folks that listen to the show and they say, oh my gosh, I resonate with what Nicole says, and I hope you work with Nicole. I hope you join her programs and level up and say, oh, I heard about her on the Practice and Practice podcast, but I ended up working with her instead of practice. Practice. Great. There’s people that resonate with you or with someone else differently. and the idea that we need to be territorial in our practices or in our level up work outside of our practices, to me, is such a myth that the work. If if Nicole and I each talked about group practice, there’d be things that we would have overlap on. But the examples, the approach, the the ways we think about downtime and boundaries and all those things is probably different. Joe Sanok 00:30:40 And that’s why it’s like, don’t even worry about if there’s a bunch of clinicians in your town, you’re going to stand out in the way you stand out. The more that you and your practice can really be authentic to that mission, to that that DNA of what you’ve created. I love what Nicole said about if you can get people to buy into and to think about a vision that’s broader than you as the owner, then they’re going to stick around after you sell. They’re going to do that beyond you as the big motivator or cheerleader in the practice. And so take that to mind. There’s a lot that Nicole shared today that that to me, I think is great to think through in regards to how we operate with practice, the practice and, and just, you know, the focus that she has. So, we’d love for you to go over to the show notes, read those things. We’ve got some really awesome podcasts that are coming up soon. so we have Melissa, our newest consultant, who’s going to be doing, three episodes coming up in just a couple of weeks here, and then we’re going to be doing replays of our level up, which we did in the spring, because a bunch of you missed that. Joe Sanok 00:31:41 you missed the chance to get those recordings. We wanted to make sure that you really can, just dig into some of that teachings. we have episodes going through all of August, one that’s on psychedelic assisted therapy with MDMA, which is going to be, have a new status change in August of 2024, with the FDA. we’re going to talk about figuring out your ROI on tasks. We’re talking about staying motivated. We’re hanging out with Steve Turney from the Mental Health Marketing Conference, which I’m going to be noting down in Nashville, in early October. we’re going to be talking about how to effectively transition yourself out of the day to day and scaling your business. We’re going to talk about, you know, what’s working, gratitude shaming and imposter syndrome, all sorts of things coming up in August Remember we’re doing four episodes a week now, so that’s a lot of content for you to listen to, to think through. To take action on. Don’t just consume. Make sure you go take some action on what we’re talking about. Joe Sanok 00:32:36 And we couldn’t do the show without our amazing sponsors. Therapy notes is the best EHR out there. We love them. They integrate so well into the way that you run your practice, the way that you have your credit cards on file doing online therapy. Check them out over at Therapy notes.com, use promo code Joe at checkout. And so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band silence Sexy for that intro music. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.