Holistic Psychiatry with Dr. Fred Moss | POP 793

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A photo of Dr. Fred Moss is captured. He is a holistic psychiatrist serving in many capacities: telepsychiatrist, speaker, psychiatry expert witness, telehealth educator, mental health coach, and filmmaker. Dr. Fred is featured on the Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

What are some common issues in modern psychiatry? Are there common pillars of wellness that anyone can have in life? Can authentic conversations help to heal mental illness?

In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks about holistic psychiatry with Dr. Fred Moss.

Podcast Sponsor: Noble

A an image of Noble Health is captured. Noble Health is the podcast sponsor to Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

Our friends at Noble have run their own clinics, worked with thousands of clients, and have seen firsthand the burnout and stress that can come with heavy caseloads, difficult topics, and a lack of time.

With these issues in mind, Noble built their app to support therapists by making between-session support easy and offering an opportunity to earn a passive income. Now, with new CPT codes coming in 2023 that will allow therapists to offer reimbursable remote monitoring support, Noble is revolutionizing remote patient monitoring.

The team at Noble has built a program that you can quickly implement to allow you to reimburse code 989X6 for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) remote monitoring.

This is so exciting for therapists and clinics!

This new CPT code, which is coming into play in January 2023, will allow you to make more money per hour and earn passive revenue. Noble’s system provides everything needed to reimburse:

  • Objective data gathering device integration
  • Assessment and data stream, display, measurement, and integrations
  • HIPAA-compliant integrations into other EHRs
  • Real-time and immediate interventions for elevated symptoms

If you would like to discuss adding their “plug-and-play” remote patient monitoring for 2023 so you can reimburse the new CPT codes, schedule a time to talk with Eric, their CEO at pop.noble.health

Meet Dr. Fred Moss

A photo of Dr. Fred Moss is captured. He is a holistic psychiatrist serving in many capacities: telepsychiatrist, speaker, psychiatry expert witness, telehealth educator, mental health coach, and filmmaker. Dr. Fred is featured on the Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

Dr. Fred Moss is a holistic psychiatrist serving in many capacities: telepsychiatrist, speaker, psychiatry expert witness, telehealth educator, mental health coach, and filmmaker. A desire to help people has been the force leading him to various settings and roles as a psychiatrist over the years and compelling him to continually look for better, more effective ways to provide the highest quality care.

Visit Welcome to Humanity, listen to the podcast, and connect on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

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In This Podcast

  • What is holistic psychiatry?
  • Common problems in modern psychiatry
  • Pillars of wellness to have in life
  • Dr. Fred’s advice to private practitioners

What is holistic psychiatry?

I no longer use diagnoses and I no longer use medications at all to help me get where that goes. I don’t see people as having psychiatric conditions. Instead, I really work towards leveling the playing field.

Dr. Fred

Dr. Fred prioritizes and believes that communication, conversation, creativity, and specifically the human connection lies at the heart of all healing.

You become a healer rather than a doctor when you notice and work with human connection and the root causes of an issue instead of caring for the symptoms.

Common problems in modern psychiatry

If the way that you are using psychiatry is working for you, great, don’t stop!

However, if you have had challenges with it in the past regarding diagnoses or medications, some things may need to change.

That’s the number one problem in psychiatry, the idea that if you’re feeling bad, [that] that’s your fault.

Dr. Fred

People do not look at the world enough to see that the world causes them a lot of problems. They often only put blame on themselves, and overlook how much dis-ease and discomfort are created by a world that can often be unhealthy, toxic, and unkind.

We have so many diagnoses … in fact, what if we really [said], “The reason you feel terrible is actually because there are reasons out there to feel terrible.” Or maybe you haven’t been taking good care of yourself.

Dr. Fred

Life is difficult, and it will be challenging, but you do not label the person as the problem when they have a “normal” response to a challenging aspect of life.

Pillars of wellness to have in life

Even though there is a lot in life to be anxious or stressed about, there are things that you can do to help yourself move through it:

  • Realize that life will be difficult at times but that the tough times will also pass
  • Be mindful of your eating habits
  • Be mindful in general by using meditation and spending time in nature
  • Prioritize a healthy community and form loving relationships with people in your life
  • Be in service and work towards helping those around you in life
  • Learn to speak your “true voice” and express yourself genuinely and authentically

Fred’s advice to private practitioners

Listen, listen, listen! It’s possible that mental illness can be helped with true conversations because people just want to be heard. They need to be seen, and they want to be heard.

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Meet Joe Sanok

A photo of Joe Sanok is displayed. Joe, private practice consultant, offers helpful advice for group practice owners to grow their private practice. His therapist podcast, Practice of the Practice, offers this advice.

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

Thanks For Listening!

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Podcast Transcription

[JOE SANOK] This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 793. I’m Joe Sanok, your host, and welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast, where we cover everything about starting, growing, scaling, and exiting a private practice. We cover all sorts of clinical issues, marketing, business, all sorts of things around what you need to have an awesome private practice. We have been doing a ton of different series lately, and in the last month we’ve been interviewing just a variety of different folks but back in August we did a whole level up month of people who had leveled up in unique ways. Back in July we did in a series that was all about people who got through difficult times. If those series sound interesting to you, go back into the archives just a few months and you’ll find some really interesting series that we just did. Well, today we have Dr. Fred Moss, who is a holistic psychiatrist serving in many capacities, telepsychiatrist, speaker, psychiatry, expert witness, telehealth educator, mental health coach, and filmmaker. Desire to help people has been the force leading him to various settings and roles as a psychiatrist over the years, and compelling him to continually look for better, more effective ways to provide the highest quality of care. Dr. Moss, welcome to the Practice of the Practice Podcast. [DR. FRED MOSS] Thank you for having me. It’s really great to be here, Joe. It’s a pleasure to speak a little bit about what really matters in my world and who I become and how I can make a difference. It looks like that’s what we’re headed for so I’m looking forward to our conversation today. [JOE] Yes, well you and I were just talking about the term holistic psychiatry. Why don’t we start with what’s good about that term and what needs some revision? [DR. MOSS] Well, I’ve been a psychiatrist officially since approximately, let’s say 1989 so we’re talking about 33 years as a psychiatrist, and then nine years before that in mental health as a childcare worker so, 42 and a half years or so is deeply embroiled inside this field called mental health, or often called psychiatry. Psychiatry itself has, what I have found is I now have backed out of conventional psychiatry after having 40,000 patients of my own, having written well over a hundred thousand prescriptions to my own, which I no longer write any prescriptions for anyone, by the way and I no longer diagnose anybody with anything, any anymore, either, Joe. I don’t have it that diagnosis or the treatment, or frequently the medications that are utilized by psychiatry are in any way naturally or reasonably helpful to most anyone. Now, before we go further, I really want to say to your lovely audience a couple things. Number one, if you have a psychiatric diagnosis and you’re happy with your diagnosis, you’re happy with your clinician, you’re happy with the treatment plan, you feel, feel like it saved your life, you wouldn’t want it any other way, and you really are committed to saying that you have that diagnosis, and that’s the way it goes, thank goodness for all that, you found your peace. By all means, I mean, and I really mean this, by all means, like more power to you don’t even think of shifting off of that. If you have found something that actually resonates with you inside the world of psychiatry, mental health, mental illness, and the treatment plan as well as the clinical interventions, good for you. Please don’t change horses in midstream based on anything I say today. My conversation today is for the hundreds of millions of people who don’t feel that way, and there are hundreds of millions of people who don’t feel that way, feel psychiatry has cheated them, or feel psychiatry has wronged them, feel psychiatry has misrepresented or misdiagnosed them, and in many ways, maybe even mistreated or perhaps even wrongly, or even caused a worsening of their primary symptoms. This is why I like to switch away from the word psychiatry. Now, I can’t help it but tell you that I’m a psychiatrist, I’m a, I got the license, I’ve got the credentials, I’ve got the history. Yes, I’m a psychiatrist, but who I am now more than anything else is some of the things you talked about. I’m a transformational coach. I’m a restorative coach. I’ve put together a program called Rapid Restorative Healing. I no longer use diagnosis, and I no longer use medications at all to help me get to where that goes. I don’t see people as having psychiatric conditions. Instead, I really work towards leveling the playing field to really getting the communication, conversation, creativity and specifically human connection is at the heart of all healing of all conditions. Once I started doing that, and I did start doing that on, about halfway through my now three decade or plus career of psychiatry, that’s when I started becoming an actual healer rather than a doctor. That’s when I started bringing my own true skills, my own newly found ways of helping people source their brilliance of getting that there is something called humanity there that really allows for feeling miserable as part of the experience and really acknowledging that and treating people as people that I’ve been able to finally get make a difference in the world of podcasting, in the world of expert speaking, in the world of teaching people how to find their true voice. I’m finally aligned with who I am, but it’s been a long, strange trip, Joe, I’m not going to lie. It’s been a long, strange trip to the heart of the beast. I was in the belly of the beast for quite a while. I was a world renowned psychiatrist with thousands of patients. Here I am outside of the maze looking in, and I feel very honored to be on your show and to be able to speak to what it really means to heal another person, which you can do really, frankly, even in one major conversation. [JOE] Now, Dr. Moss what would you say are some of the major problems of psychiatry today in the way that people view diagnoses and the psychiatric approach to diagnoses? [DR. MOSS] Well, there’s a lot of, you could say that they’re problems, but again, I want to bracket off the people who think that there’s not problems and they’re happy with the way things go. I can’t embrace them large enough, and I no way am here to diminish their own personal experience but for the hundreds of millions of people out there who use psychiatry in ways that are not working so well for them. I think one of the biggest problems is that psychiatry is a place where you can come to and declare that your unhappiness or your dis-ease, your discomfort, your unpleasantness, maybe you’re just not, your misery or your troubles, all of those things that there’s something wrong with you if you’re experiencing. That’s the number one problem in psychiatry, the idea that if you’re feeling bad, that’s your fault. The idea that we have something that somehow is geared towards maybe rebalancing your chemical imbalance, maybe we have something like a biological psychiatry or better life through chemistry, and frankly, that’s just not the way the field goes. So we relinquish responsibility frequently for the mistakes that we are frequently making or the troubles that we’re having, getting along with others or getting along in this have you noticed it’s crazy out there world? Instead of really acknowledging that that’s part of this wildlife that we’re living and we’re all human when we’re doing that we walk into the psychiatrist’s office trying to find out what’s wrong with us, as if there is something wrong with us. So, oftentimes we relinquish responsibility for our own life by coming up with an acronym, ADHD, BAD, MDD, narcissistic personality disorder, autistic spectrum disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, sociophobia. We have so many diagnoses and they’re coming up like dandelions every day. In fact, what if we really just got, oh, the reason you feel terrible is because there’s actually reasons out there to feel terrible or maybe you haven’t been taking very good care of yourself. Maybe you’ve been taking in toxins through your eyes, your ears, your mouth, and you can stop doing that. Maybe there’s a way to silence yourself so that you can start seeing that, oh, yes, oh yes. At the baseline, this is a crazy world and the way I’m dealing with it is, okay, even if I feel crazy. One of the unique aspects of humanity, we think we’re unique, so interesting. Like, in order to be normal, we think that we’re uniquely abnormal. It’s really a beautiful thing to start getting that none of us know what the hell is going on at all. None of us, not even you, not me, especially stuff that I think I know, that I know about, I don’t, that’s even worse. When we start walking into the world as brothers and sisters who have no idea what the hell’s going on, frankly, and we have no idea what the future’s going to bring, there’s a new level of unification and a new level of socialization, a new level of camaraderie, some resonance and connection. From there, I have found that is the soul space for human healing to take place. Psychiatry is the only field if you really want to encapsulated. The only field I know about in medicine that if the patient walks into the office and if you tell the patient that they’re, well, they just get furious. They just get like, they’re like, they just like send you to the cleaners and they go next door to find out where they’re sick. That does not happen in other fields. If you were told you were well by the cardiologist or by the gynecologist or by the pediatrician, you’re really happy to hear it. But in psychiatry, when someone tells you you’re well, you just can question their competence. [JOE] Yes, it sounds like one of your, it sounds like one of your core premises is the idea that life is hard, that there’s pain in the world, and that right now in psychiatry, a lot of folks are trying to say, no, you should be happy all the time. You should feel all these gleeful feelings. Is that accurate, an accurate reflection of what I’m hearing? [DR. MOSS] Well, I don’t know about happy and gleeful, but you should feel steady. You should feel okay. You shouldn’t feel disturbed. You should, if you’re disturbed, we’re going to call that an illness. If you’re disturbed, we’re going to call that humanity. So yes, in some ways but you’re saying I’m not sure that they’re saying you should be happy all the time, but I think they are saying is that if you are unhappy, we got an app for you. It’s called a pill. We got a pill who’s not only is likely not to make you better, but frankly likely to perpetuate the symptoms it’s marketed to treat, and in more serious cases actually cause new symptoms or the exact same symptom that you came for to exacerbate. Siddhartha, he came up with the same thing, dude I mean, there’s a lot of people who have come up with the same thing. Life, it’s got some misery and embedded in it. No one ever told you you’re going to get through this life without misery, because you didn’t, because you’re not going to. In fact, you’re not going to get through today without misery. When we can finally really, seriously, honestly look at that square in the face and really get that your experience and my experience includes like a very significant amount, a misery trauma, like confusion, unmet expectations, et cetera and that our thinking itself leads us down some pretty serious deep rabbit holes, when we can start getting that, then that’s when that resonance takes place. Frankly, like I said, I’m not sure it’s happening to you right now, but I know that when I connect with another person about this, there’s an exhale, there’s a realization that somehow it is going to be okay, even if it isn’t okay. And not like it’s going to get better. I don’t mean that, I mean that we’re all in this together in the same foxhole or in the same war zone, and it’s okay. It’s okay. Like just let’s play the game with the rules of the road on the table. Once we do that, the whole idea of mental illness starts to fade away as being a relevant issue. I’m going to do it for a third time, but I promise I won’t have to do it a fourth time, which is give that disclaimer to the people who are happy with their mental illness. Gosh, please keep going. If you found a place where you’re happy anywhere in life, any one of you that it’s really working, then by all means hang on to that horse for a while because it’s quite an achievement to get through this life and find a place it works. [JOE] So if there’s someone that they’ve been told the traditional approach, they have depression, they have anxiety, maybe they’ve been on medications or maybe they’ve been in counseling or doing some good self-care types of things, what would you say from your perspective, needs to adjust in regards to their approach to relieving some of those symptoms? [DR. MOSS] Well, again, it’s not so much a matter of relieving the symptoms. We think we understand the difference, for instance, between depression and anxiety. You have your inner sense of what the difference is simply between those two words. Back in the day we made it clear back, when I was learning in residency, we made it clear that there’s a very foggy line between those two things these days. The average person thinks they’re talking about something when they’re saying either of those terms as if they have something called clinical depression or clinical anxiety. If you’re not nervous right now, what rock have you been living under? if you’re not scared, if you’re not depressed, if there’s nothing here that’s depressing you in your life, either at home or in the world at large like how did you, what makes you think that’s okay? It’s like there are seriously depressing things here. There are seriously anxiety producing things here. Now, they don’t, what they don’t have to do is they don’t have to paralyze you once you can acknowledge that being depressed, being scared, being anxious, being nervous, being either terrified or uncomfortable in any way is part of the aspects, part of the central aspects of being a human being in the present world and in past worlds for that matter, once you start getting that, there’s no need to alleviate those symptoms. There’s need, if you will, to acknowledge, incorporate, and in some very weird way, welcome those experiences as being part of the pori of what it means to be a human in a human being’s life and not having to push aside the things that are deeply uncomfortable. I, like any of you, I’m not eager to have my next very uncomfortable moment, and I have plenty of them where are deeply, deeply, deeply uncomfortable. I’m not eager for the next experience of that way, but what I am suggesting is I know that you do too, and so does everyone. Wouldn’t it be great to somehow just acknowledge that at a new level, that there’s nothing wrong with us when we’re experiencing that? In fact, it may be exactly accurate given the circumstances that we’re experiencing to have those deeply uncomfortable feelings, deeply uncomfortable thoughts, because that might be the fuel necessary to actually step in front, become a leader acknowledge your discomfort and really just step into our power together. [JOE] So if people are feeling those feelings that they don’t prefer and they acknowledge them and they say, yes, there’s a lot going on in the world that warrants feeling sad, warrants feeling anxious, or any of those things, do you suggest they just accept it and then that’s just life or are there other techniques that you would say no, change your eating habits, improve your exercise, be outside more, be in community? What would you suggest to people? [DR. MOSS] All three of those things are really great, so changing your eating habits, being careful what you eat, you actually literally become what you eat when you eat it. So go ahead and enjoy those Cheetos, but understand that you just became a bag of Cheetos and go ahead and enjoy those tacos and then you became a taco. It’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with Cheetos and tacos. You just became them when they became part of your body. So when you start eating well, when you start drinking enough very clean water, when you start really being careful about what you’re putting into your system, reducing toxins, you can indeed improve your life incrementally and sometimes rarely profoundly by monitoring your own detoxification, not just through your mouth, but through your eyes, through your ears, and through your experiences, what you touch, et cetera. So yes, of course. And mindfulness is another way when you do any mindfulness work where you’re able to quiet that mind of ours, that rolling mind that creates feelings, thoughts, and emotions, when you can do some work that studies that and can see yourself at frankly like an observer, like a hover over the top, even if it’s just a few minutes a day, 20 minutes is the common time that people use for this thing called meditation, well, when you can do that, it’s amazing how steadying of an influence that is, that has you then being able to incorporate the discomfort with the comfort. You also mentioned community. That’s a beautiful space. I wrote a book called The Creative 8 and The Creative 8 talks about eight different ways to self-express that are over and above the vocal ways that you’re using with me on this particular podcast. They’re obvious to people, but I have them listed as art, music, dancing, singing, drama, cooking, writing, gardening. Then there was two more that got added on nine and 10 which was photography and cleaning. Finally the 11th one, which is the trump, if you will, of all of them, which is help anybody do anything or like you said, be in community and be of service. What I noticed is that when I’m doing those things, not just watching art for instance, not just listening to music, but actually making music or doing art, doing drama, doing cooking, like actually being a creator, then the negative experiences tend to wash away while I’m in that process. Now they make, they may so-called come back, and then we have to look at the what happened to have them come back. We may think that we’re like afflicted with a depression. Maybe that’s not so, maybe there’s not a cloud over us that has afflicted us with depression. Unfortunately, sometimes the treatment and the medication does actually perpetuate, accentuate or even cause those symptoms. So we have to be a little bit weary of that. But what really is here is there are practices when we move, like you said, exercise, when we move, when we stretch, or when we do training like walking or running or weight training or those kinds of things, we can create a healthier system here. We can create a system that is cleaner in our listening, because in our listening comes our gift of speaking our true voice. Now, what am I meaning by true voice? This is the technology that I’ve developed over the last three to five years called the True Voice Technology. I’ve taught people how to go from zero to podcaster. I’ve taught over 50 people how to do that. They all have killer podcasts at this point. What people want more than anything Joe, is to be heard. In order to be heard, you’re going to have to speak and in order to speak, you’re going to have to speak your voice. In order to speak your voice, you might as well speak your true voice. So I give people access, deep access using the Creative 8 and other proven methodologies to f come in touch with that authentic self and then actually deliver it into a world that is eager to hear it. Because if you don’t speak your true voice, no one will ever know you and that would be a tragic life to go to your grave with your song unsung as Henry David Thoro said. But what’s really here is the ability to make decisions that are healthy for ourselves and when we make unhealthy decisions or make mistakes, actually restore ourselves back to center court as soon as possible so that we can get up and do it again. Now, is it fun? Is it helpful? Is it useful? Is it pertinent or is it futile? Well, it might be futile, but so what if it’s futile, so what if it’s futile? You got a choice of living a futile life uncomfortable or a futile life slightly less uncomfortable. I like to say that when we connect with other people, that’s where the magic is. That’s what we get to share. That’s what we get to learn from each other. Our curiosity and our wonder and our unification and community is quite brilliant. I think you know that, that’s why you have 700 plus podcasts here, because you already know that interacting with people is where the magic rises as form. [NOBLE] Our friends at Noble have run their own clinics, worked with thousands of clients, and have seen firsthand the burnout and stress that can come with heavy caseloads, difficult topics, and a lack of time. With these things in mind, Noble built their app to support therapists by making between sessions support easy and offering and opportunity to build passive income. Now with new CPT codes coming in 2023, that will allow therapists to offer reimbursable remote monitoring support, noble is revolutionizing remote patient monitoring. The team at Noble’s built a program that you can quickly implement to allow you to reimburse code 989×6 for cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT remote monitoring. This is so exciting for therapists and clinics. This new CPT code, which is coming into play in January, 2023, will allow you to make more money per hour and earn passive revenue. Noble’s system provides everything needed to reimburse objective data gathering, device integration, assessment and data stream display measurement and integrations, HIPAA compliant integrations into other EHRs, and real-time and immediate interventions for elevated symptoms. If you’d like to discuss adding their plug and play remote patient monitoring for 2023 so you can reimburse the new CPT codes, schedule a time to talk with Eric, their CEO at pop.noble.health. Again, that’s pop.noble.health. [JOE SANOK] Now, when you think about your own personal habits, I always love to hear how teachers will manifest in their own lives, what they’re doing, what’s some of your weekly schedule or habits that you have that for you enact what you’re talking about? [DR. MOSS] Well, I like to drink 96 ounces of water every day. I don’t always get that done, but I really like water. Water seems to wash away all the toxins that I get from my training. I do very vigorous training at least five times a week. I have a trainer who I meet online and walks me through some of the craziest shit ever, including about two hours ago, I had an a wildly powerful training. With that, I think that that’s important to stay hydrated as well. I love to meditate. I’ve already meditated today. I love taking those 20 minutes and really taking a peak of my life through, I do transcendental meditation, but you don’t have to do TM. There’s many, many ways of just sitting quietly. The other thing is I have a beautiful wife and my wife and my connection with my wife is that we’re out on the edges creating relationship. She’s a terrific artist and so our contribution is hopefully in the world of helping people stay steady in their own selves. So I get a tremendous amount of reinforcement by helping other people. It’s what I came on this planet to do when I arrived 64 years ago. I’m told that the family that was there to accept me, including my two brothers and my parents were in a fair amount of chaos and disarray, and my job was to bring joy and love and communication and fun and pleasure into that family. So I’ve been doing this. I punched the clock that first second when I arrived, and I get so much value out of somehow positioning myself to be able to help others. So whether that’s through the one-on-one counseling or which I don’t even call counseling anymore, it’s more along the line of coachings, but I don’t want to get washed up in that either. So it’s maybe transformational, restorative mentoring, et cetera, given that I’ve been in the field so long and can really help people find their steady space. I do that also through The True Voice podcasting where I’ve just created a course and the course is hot off the press. It’s a six-module, 18 lesson, 54 prompt 22 videos and a full scale work book as well as a mastermind that’s associated with it. You get my two books and you get a bunch of cool stuff, VIP stuff as soon as you sign up. They can find that at truevoicepodcasting.com. That’s a place where I can finally bring my authentic self and my walk through this world to other people who are maybe eager to find what are, find a way to say that which they know is on the tip of their tongue that they don’t say, because frankly, these are fearful times. People are afraid of being censored or canceled. So I really love sourcing other people this idea like you called it community, I call it service or helping anybody do anything in Creative 8. I think that’s where the greatest magic is, is in some ways getting in these conversations and saying outright what really matters and doing so unabashed and unapologetically, and at the same time, listening very carefully, very, very carefully to what the world is wanting to bring forth. So some people mistake true voice for just getting on the top of a mountain and telling your mother-in-law how much you hate there but that’s not true voice. True voice is about listening to what’s being called for and then delivering effectively so that you can move the needle forward and move the conversation progressively forward. That takes some skill and some creativity to do that. We make mistakes and then when we make mistakes, you just get up and realize, okay, that was human. Let’s try this one more time. And that’s life. No wonder Sid Arthur came up with the idea that maybe misery is irrevocable. [JOE] Well, Dr. Moss, the last question I always ask is, if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? [DR. MOSS] Well, I think the thing that I would want them to know is that mental illness, the way it’s described right now, is not only a variable, it’s different. It’s culturally specific, meaning it’s different in different countries. When you have a broken arm, you have that everywhere. You have a broken arm, you have it in Tahiti, you have it in Tokyo, you have it in Singapore, and it doesn’t matter where you go, it’s still going to be a broken arm. As far as mental illness, that’s not true. Mental illness is a variable depending on the circumstances that you surround yourself by. Therefore, mental illness is just a conversation. It’s just a conversation that has a very supportive, prevailing agreement around it, and therefore is accepted as a truth. The fact is that mental illness is transformable entirely because it’s a made up conversation and once we start shaking that jar a little bit, we can start seeing that maybe the people that we think are mentally ill, or the people that we think are wrong or out there or crazy or whatever we think aren’t so crazy after all. What they want, just like what we all want, is just to be heard, just to be heard for who they are. It’s unbelievable how many times in the prisons, in the jails, in the inpatient units, all that I’ve had to do was actually hear someone differently than they’ve been heard for decades and a new person arises like, oh my God, I’ve been heard. Like, there’s someone here. So it’s like, listen, listen, listen, listen and it’s possible that mental illness is simply a conversation and thereby transformable through conversation to be something entirely different as we share a human experience together. [JOE] Thank you so much for being on the show today, Dr. Moss. If people want to connect with you or follow your work, where’s the best place to send them? [DR. MOSS] Well, the best place to connect with me is my email, which is [email protected]. You can also go to my website, which is in construction, but it is called welcometohumanity.net. There you can get a copy of my book, Creative 8 is there the welcometohumanity.net/creative. We’ll get you an audible book of that, and there’s also a PDF available at phil/creativeeight. Finally, one another good space to come, and I’ll give your audience a free copy of this book is the findyourtruevoicebook.com. That’s my newest book. I’m really proud of the book. It’s easy, it takes a deep dive into the importance of finding our true voice and delivering it effectively. Findvyourtruevoicebook.com is where you can get a free copy of the actual book. I’ll send to you and I’ll even cover shipping. Then if you want to talk a little bit further about me giving other talks elsewhere, if you know somebody who wants to hear me, my message or about working with you or someone then probably the best way, at least these days to get ahold of me is to come directly to [email protected]. [JOE] Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast. [DR. MOSS] It’s been my pleasure. Thank you so much and really appreciate it. thetruevoicepodcasting.com, I think we mentioned that earlier. That’s another space, of course, if you want to really dig in and get all the goodies that come with that program. Thank you so much for having me, Joe. [JOE] All right. We have a lot of great stuff coming up here. Killin’It Camp is right around the corner. That’s going to be in Cancun, Mexico this year, kicking off on October 20th. If you have not grabbed your ticket yet, you are definitely going to want to grab your ticket for Killin’It Camp because it’s the place where all of us private practitioners come together. We’re going to be having some sessions indoors, but having a whole lot of poolside networking breakout sessions to just enjoy time outside and in a beautiful environment. It’s going to be at the Club Med there in Cancun, Mexico. We were able to negotiate all-inclusive for under $200 a night. Incredible. Make sure you grab your ticket for that over at killinitcamp.com. Also, we couldn’t do this show without our sponsors. Our sponsors is Noble who has been so supportive of the show. Our friends over at Noble have exciting news to share. Their goal is to help mental health professionals serve more people in less time, support a worthy cause and earn passive income. They’re on a mission to add 50,000 mental health professionals to their platform over the next few months. You can join totally for free over at pop.noble.health. Again, that’s pop.noble.health. Thanks so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.