Dr. Taunya Lowe is a Riot Starter | PoP 283

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Dr. Taunya Lowe is a Riot Starter

Are you wanting to start a private practice, but are fearful to take the leap? Do you want to leave a legacy, but don’t know how? Do you need the courage to go after your dreams?

In this episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Dr. Taunya Lowe about her journey into private practice, and then consulting.

Podcast Sponsor

Earlier this year, we launched Next Level Practice. Next Level Practice is the supportive community that helps people start practices. Over time, we are going to continue to add content around growing and scaling a practice but, for right now, it’s just for people that have said to themselves, “I want to start a practice!” And, they got it going, and maybe it’s not going as well as they want.

There are so many different things that are part of this. We have live webinars, live Q&A, you get matched up with a one-on-one accountability partner, you get put into a small group of other people starting practices, and you get the support of me and my whole team – Alison, Sam, and Emily. We give away tons of free stuff, and we have competitions in there to help you take really great steps towards starting a practice. Things like: updating your Facebook page, making sure that your website looks good, and making sure that you’re attracting your ideal client.

So, if you are starting a practice and you want the authoritative, supportive community to be surrounding you so that you can be successful, head on over to practiceofthepractice.com/invite.


Meet Dr. Taunya Lowe

Author, Podcaster, Strategist, Consultant, Trainer and Americas’ Favorite Mindset Coach!  Dr. Taunya Lowe, ‘The Riot Starter’ is an innovative, insightful, change agent who understands the concept of adding value to others. As a trainer and presenter, she is witty and engaging while offering practical solutions, healing the pain points around team progression and productivity, succession planning, and professional development using DiSC and 360 assessments, customized training, and coaching in organizations. A national and international speaker, trainer, mindset coach and consultant. She is the founder and driving force behind the Riot Starter movement which consists of programs, products, retreats, and trainings. She is inspirational, transformational and your partner for individual and organizational success.


Dr. Taunya Lowe’s Story

Dr. Taunya Lowe used to be involved in public health. However, she also found that people were always coming to her to talk to her about their problems. So, she decided to study and get involved in counseling. Since then, she has worked in developing substance abuse, domestic violence, and anger management work. Now, she is a consultant to private practice owners.

In This Podcast


In this episode, Joe Sanok talks with Dr. Taunya Lowe about her journey from public health into private practice into consulting. She started the ‘Riot Starter’ which teaches people how to start ‘riots’ in their lives and businesses in order to leave a legacy.

Start a Riot

“When you step out into something that you consider a huge risk, you tap into areas of knowledge that you don’t actually use.”

Don’t limit yourself! If you want to do something you’ve never done, start thinking about it. There is a huge demand for people with our skillset in almost every industry.

Even when people think you’re crazy, start your own riot for your life, your business, and your legacy. People are watching you and if you don’t step out in faith, your friends and families won’t step out either. Being a riot starter is about being innovative, standing up for what you believe in, and influencing others.

Mindsets That Get in the Way of Starting a Riot

  • Fear
  • ‘Can I really do it?’
  • You don’t need permission
  • Needing support from family and friends
  • Worrying about failure


Useful Links:

Meet Joe Sanok

private practice consultantJoe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.






Thanks For Listening!

Feel free to leave a comment below or share this podcast on social media by clicking on one of the social media links below! Alternatively, leave a review on iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

File: PoP 283 Dr. Taunya Lowe is a Riot Starter
Duration: 0:45:10:20

Joe Sanok: Earlier this year, we launched next level practice. Next level practice is the supportive community that helps people start practices. Over time, we are going to continue to add content around growing of practices and scaling it, but for right now it’s just for people that have said themselves, “I want to start a practice,” and they got going and maybe it’s not going as well as they want. So there are so many different things that are part of this. We have live webinars, live Q&A. You get matched up with the one and one accountability partner. You get put into a small group of other people starting practices and you get the support of me and my whole team. So Alison, Sam and Emily. And we give away tons of free stuff, we have competitions in there to help you to really great steps towards starting a practice, things like updating your Facebook page, make it sure that your website looks good, making sure that you’re attracting your ideal client. So if you are starting a practice and you want the authoritative support of community to be surrounding you so that you can be successful, head on over to www.practiceofthepractice.com/invite.


Joe Sanok: This is the Practice of the Practice Podcast with Joe Sanok, session #283.


Joe Sanok: Well, this is the practice of the practice podcast. I am so glad you are here. If you are brand new to this podcast, welcome. We came so close last month to hitting a 100,000 listings and I know that this month we are with all of these five fierce women. Actually, by the time this goes live, that will be February and it will be in the past. We are headed towards spring, which is hard to believe because I batch record these. So it’s actually right now the time of this recording. It is February 1st and I got a lot of these done ahead of time and it is snowing like crazy in Northern Michigan. I can’t even see the water and it’s two blocks away from here. Actually a block and half away from here. Well, I told you about that next level practice that has kicked off and it is so exciting. I am so invigorated by that. The people in there are saying that it’s the community that they want. They were going at a fast enough pace and some people are even saying we are going too fast, but what’s really cool is whenever you launch something new, you really want to try to kick it off without putting too much money into it and so we really wanted to just see if people are interested in this and then as we have gone with this first cohort, it has been great because we have got feedback from them on what they want. So for example, I did a survey and said what would you want to have me in it, who would you want me to interview. So I put out all these different ideas of things that I thought and the two that I didn’t think people are not going to be ready for, that actually got the most number of votes was the first most exciting one for them was that they wanted to hear from people who have seven figure practices. So million dollar practices or larger and how to set it up now so that we can get there. So we are having Kasey Compton who is in one of my Next Level Mastermind groups. She is going to be on it and I may show that recording with you in the future at some point. But that actually happened this past month. Well, right now today is February 1st. It will be happening later in February, but when this recording was live, it will be in the past. Ooh, time work. So she and I are going to have conversation over how to set up a million dollar practice and these are people that I got tuning that have just started their practices and Kasey got to that level in 3 years, and so we are going to picking her brain. And the other they wanted to know about was how do you set up the practice now so that it eventually can be a group practice. So I was thinking, wow, like people are going to want some basic stuff when starting a practice, and the things they wanted was okay, how do I get to a six figures fast. How do I get to seven figures fast. And so we hear what you are say and we develop that as people vote on it and say what they want. And over time as we develop these trainings, what’s really cool is we are going to be placing them up into an e-learning platform so that you can really go at the pace that you want to go at as you learn these things and grow and over time obviously we are going to be doing a lot more with this. So, it’s so exciting, it’s so fun to see people they just got to sign their accountability partners in their small groups and they are getting going and doing their Google Hangouts and it’s just such a fun community to have. And if you’re interested in that again, that’s www.practiceofthepractice.com/invite and we would love for you to go through it either with friends or on your own or cohort of people from your old college. Yeah, that’s just like I’m super excited about it because this has really kicked off well and [00:04:38.06] actually just this competition where everybody updated their Facebook page and tried to get one post that he got shared to get the most views. And so Sam then reviewed everybody that participated in the competition. She did a review of everybody’s Facebook pages and said what they are doing well, they could improve on, and then she picked a winner of people that had a brand new Facebook page. So never had one before. Got a winner there that gets half an hour of consulting with Alison and then someone who had an established page, but then got one of their post to be viewed the most number of times. Then they won a free 30 minutes with me. So we are doing some fun kind of game [00:05:16.12] to just make sure that you know this is a lot of work and let’s have fun together as we do it.

Well, today though we have Dr. Taunya Lowe and I am not going to tell anything about her because it’s such an awesome interview, the one, the only Dr. Taunya Lowe.


Joe Sanok: Well, today on the practice of the practice podcast, we have Dr. Taunya Lowe and she is a national and international speaker, trainer, mindset coach, and consultant and is a founder and driving force behind the Riot Starter movement. Dr. Lowe welcome to the Practice of the Practice Podcast.

Taunya Lowe: Hello, Joe. Thank you for having me. I am excited.

Joe Sanok: Oh, Taunya, we were just talking about like who much we have in common and I so excited to have you here. You are someone that was trained as a therapist. Then you started training therapist and now you have gone outside of that field and are doing mindset work and man, I can’t wait to talk to you about that, that movement within your career. What don’t you start with… tell us a little about your background clinically in regards to your private practice when you are back doing counseling work.

Taunya Lowe: Okay, so I am here at Atlanta, Georgia. And I started out Joe in Public Health. My undergrad’s in public health, worked in public health for about 8 years… cancer, tobacco. All of that good stuff and then I wanted to go back, got my masters and I wanted to stay on the public health track. I didn’t get into public health school, but I was ready to go back to school. And so I thought, you know what, people are always coming to me to talk to me about their stuff and you know I will look at this counseling thing. I got in and started, and the whole time I was in graduate school I was fighting it. And my colleagues they laugh at me today because my whole thing was I am getting back to public health, I am getting back to public health. So many opportunities started presenting themselves that sucked me in. It sucked me in and so…. so got my masters in counseling and psychological services. My first job off the gate, they were looking for someone with the public health and a counseling background… well, look at that. So I started coordinating a HIV program in a 28-day program. And my career in the field just really kind of grew from there. So I was able to use my public health background mixed with my new counseling skills and then from there started coordinating a regional women substance abuse program from there, started running all of the State wide substance abuse programs for the State. And kind of shifted outside of that and started doing domestic violence, anger management, and some substance abuse work on the side – kind of like in a private practice. So I was at practice inside of a practice. And I did that for about 8-9 years until it was time for me to start working on the dissertation where I had to start letting everything go. And was really, really looking at where I want to take my career. I knew that I wanted to be in consulting. Once I finished my doctorate, I made a shift in my business because like I said I was doing some counseling on the side. I really started being a consultant to therapists, being a consultant to providers who had State contracts helping them, telling them the things I couldn’t tell them when I was on the other side. So helping them to truly develop their practices, helping them hire better, helping them with their leadership development, and so lot of that. A lot of what I did in the foundational part of my business, really… really kind of moved me to what I do most today. Today I still [00:09:40.16] [CROSSTALK]…

Joe Sanok: Let me pause you there. So I want to go back to when you made that jump from private practice to consulting because so many of whether it’s my consulting clients or Mastermind members or people in our community, they will have their friends that are other counselors, private practice owners and they are like, hey, how do you do that, how do you do Facebook ads and they give all these informal advice. But making that jump into consulting where you actually get paid for it is often a hired jump for people that make. So what did you do that helped you move from just people wanting to get like pick their brain over lunch to actually getting a pay check that made it worth it to that instead of some counseling?

Taunya Lowe: So Joe, I’ll tell you and I’ll be honest with you. My plan was never to stay in counseling for ever. I started really growing and looking at how I could make that a part of what I really wanted to do which was be a consultant. I loved teaching people and helping people to grow and develop and create things. And so I rode that wave of learning and creating contacts and relationships because a big part of any type of transition is relationships. And then also having a good track record when you are in your private practice or if you are not private practice [00:10:58.27] thinking about it wherever you are in your employment. So for me it was, I always wanted to have a consulting practice and I used my experience and I used my knowledge to really just kind of step out because I’d grown so much in the field of addiction here in Atlanta, it was nothing for me to really just hang my shingle and say I am consulting now because then you get [00:11:29.21] [CROSSTALK]…

Joe Sanok: So for you it sounds like you really… you went into with that mindset of I want to be a consultant. So you didn’t have the baggage a lot people have where they are like who I am to consult and who am I charge my peer. You didn’t have to worry about any of that?

Taunya Lowe: No, no. I didn’t. But I tell you this. A lot of the clients that I work with and help them, they have that and I want your listeners to know that you are qualified, you are more than qualified [00:11:56.09] [CROSSTALK]

Joe Sanok: I know. I have to say to people that statistically about eight percent of the US has a masters degree. So if you were in a room with the, kind of, average US population, eight people would have masters degrees in that room or higher, and then of those eight, how many of them are most likely going to be in the counseling or clinical field – probably you. And so I think often as we go to conferences and we these great leaders that are doing amazing research, we think of who am I, but you are comparing yourself to a bunch of people that are in your field versus the average population, you know the most in almost any setting.

Taunya Lowe: Exactly. You know Joe, just a couple of weeks ago, well, actually about a month ago, I was called in to be an expert witness on a case around addiction, and so I would tell folks that are thinking about kind of easing into the private practice, start doing some research. Find out how you can be an expert witness. That’s easy. It’s easy-breezy. You’ve got [00:12:52.05]. You are the expert and you get to provide your clinical expertise on a case, and that’s… I tell a lot of people to kind of start there because it also gets you connected with people outside of your field, building those relationships outside of your field.

Joe Sanok: Now, how did you get your first consulting clients. Did they reach out to you? Did you have some sales funnel or… tell me about how you got going?

Taunya Lowe: Oh my God. So when I started, I knew nothing about funnels and all of that. Everyone they knew me around the State. So when they knew that I was no longer a part of the State Government program and let them know, I just kind of hung my shingle and say, hey, I started my own business and I can help you with your charts and your staff and your practice… help you with your practices. And so they loved that because they knew that I had the information that can help them, that could help them, now that I was on the other side. like a sheer information to help them. So I made lot of phone calls. I mean phone calls, I sent emails. Yeah, I was old school, and again this was eight years ago where I really started doing all of that. And so I would say probably about four years ago, we just really started integrating maybe four, five years ago now, integrating funnels and all of that, but [00:14:27.12] [CROSSTALK] relationships.

Joe Sanok: I know that I can be pretty risk-averse, so I want to see the numbers before I make a jump where you left your job and started this thing. What helped you make that decision, and I am sure that you are not just a jump off the cliff kind of person, but maybe you are… I don’t know you enough to tell…

Taunya Lowe: [LAUGH].

Joe Sanok: … but a lot of people are pretty risk averse. They want a guaranteed income. What would you say to them?… So funny. As I was just talking about risk-averseness, I just saw a car come down a one-way street, the incorrect direction, and make a turn, and they had just driven a whole block in the wrong direction. So…

Taunya Lowe: Oh my God.

Joe Sanok: I know and I am glad that traffic slow right now.

Taunya Lowe: You are not risk-averse [00:15:10.07] [CROSSTALK] [LAUGH]…

Joe Sanok: Yeah [00:15:10.14] [CROSSTALK] just aware. So what helped you make that jump?

Taunya Lowe: So I finished my doctorate in human services and I had gone on a vacation, and I got a phone call because… which was that phone call?… but I got a phone call. Someone wanted me to join their training team for this big fortune 500 company. And I was like, you know what, I am on vacation now celebrating my Ph.D. I will give you a call when I get back in the States. So they were really, really adamant about setting something up, and I was like, really? And I was like, okay, you know, go ahead, pull me down. I’ll come. I will come and meet with you. What I didn’t know it was going to be in Montgomery, Alabama for one. [LAUGH] And I went down and I talked to them about what they needed. And honestly it was the pay. I had an opportunity to make the type of money that I never would have made if I were still in government or still working for the agency that I was working for. And I said, if I don’t do this, I will regret this. I’ll regret it for the rest of my life, and so…

Joe Sanok: [00:16:30.24] working for the State at the time that you got that offer?

Taunya Lowe: At the time, I had left the State and I was working with a State contractor…

Joe Sanok: Okay.

Taunya Lowe: …and so what we did, we kind of worked for the State. So we monitored their guarantees. So if they were providing services for the State, I went in and made sure that they were following the guidelines, made sure that they were doing what they needed to do with Medicaid, and all of that. Right? So I said, you know what, I am going to step out and try this. It was for a year’s contract. It was this… you know, in government, you are not making six figures unless you’re like [00:17:15.19] I am going to do this. And everybody looked at me like what’s going to happen after a year. I was like, I don’t know. We are going to take it one year at a time and see what happens. So…

Joe Sanok: I was working at a local community college and things have been growing with Practice of the Practice and my regular private practice, just working 10 hours, 15 hours a week. So I decided to leave after a really long period of time. In the first year, I made more than the President of the college. And I was like, yes, take that [LAUGH].

Taunya Lowe: [LAUGH] Yes, [00:17:49.03] it was really stepping out. So stepping out, that really helped me shape my consulting practice. It really… when you step out into something that you think is a huge risk, you tap into areas of knowledge that you don’t necessarily use, and so that opportunity afforded me a chance to think, you know what, I am no more than I thought I knew. Like I am ready to go back and start you know my practice in Atlanta. And that’s what I did. After that opportunity I came back. Chased my website, and hung my shingle and that first year I doubled what I made when I was with the fortune 500 company.

Joe Sanok: Wow.

Taunya Lowe: So it’s doable, but you got to have a mindset to do it and you have to truly believe in yourself and believe that you deserve to do something other than what you are doing if that’s what you choose to do.

Joe Sanok: Well, I hear this over and over from people that scale and grow faster than what most of us would expect, where they usually take some action really when they are in [00:19:10.22] so you are in that state of mind and you go change your website and put it out there and then things start happening, whereas it seems like the people that go really slow and also kind of have that fear of perfection or paralyzed by perfection are the ones that they’ll do all this market research which is important if it informs the action, but they do all these market research. They are like, oh my gosh, who am I compared to all these other people. There’s not a market for this, and then that just stops the innovation because they are second-guessing themselves so much. So it sound like you took some bold action really quickly, but didn’t necessarily know if it was going to work or not. It was just you were experimenting and seeing if, well, will this stick.

Taunya Lowe: Well, you know, I called my old boss. I came back and I was playing around. I called my old boss and I say, hey, I am thinking about doing what I used to do for your guys, doing it on my own, and she said – and I will never forget this – she said well, you know, we lost our State funding. So we are no longer providing technical assistance and training. So you would be great. And two, they are other people that are doing it and they have no idea what they are doing and they are messing people up. They need you. And so that was all I needed. I…

Joe Sanok: Yeah.

Taunya Lowe: [00:20:23.25] I am not a web master, but I learned how to do it. I called it “burgodaddy”…

Joe Sanok: “burgodaddy” [LAUGH].

Taunya Lowe: And I set up a website that took me, web page that took me way into my business and I ran with that. I ran with it. It was [00:20:44.14] [CROSSTALK]…

Joe Sanok: It’s amazing how just an imperfect chintzy website is fine when you’re first getting going, and then when you have the money coming into… it makes sense to reinvest and upgrading. I mean if people use the Wayback Machine which is a website where you can look at what websites used to look like and you look Practice of the Practice years ago, oh my gosh, it’s so embarrassing. But it got started. [00:21:07.13]

Taunya Lowe: It gets you started. It got you started and so one of the things that I want the listeners to take away from this conversation that we are having is that don’t limit yourself. Don’t limit yourself if you want to do something outside of what you have always done. Start thinking about it. There was a huge need for people with our skillset in every industry, in every industry, and it doesn’t have to be just limited to therapy or counseling. Right now I am doing a lot of mindset work. Someone came to me and said, why aren’t you doing mindset work? I never thought about it, Joe. And the reality is I do it anyway, but never thought about make it a service and for the last year I have done very well being America’s favorite mindset host.

Joe Sanok: So yeah, tell me about the origins of the Riot Starter. I love the branding and that name. Take us back to that when you had the idea for that name and how it grew from there.

Taunya Lowe: Wow, so whoo. This is a great story because when I started my business I was riding the wave. Riding the wave, we were doing really well and then I hit a wall. I hit a wall. Money wasn’t coming in. Oh, my God. What I am going to do? [LAUGH] And I remember I kind of sat back and because I made some decisions with some clients that it didn’t work out well. And I remember sitting down with my notepad. Okay, what did you learn. I learned that I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and I knew that I needed some support, some help, and I knew that I needed to get into some type of community. And so I get involved in a coaching program, and from there really started kind of redesigning my business – who my client, hell, was going to be, what was I going to do. And I remember writing my first book called “Wanna Start a Riot? Change. Affirmations, Confirmations, and Prayers.” And that book is really those affirmations and things that I’ve written over the years that kept me going and moving. And kept me in the game. Little did I know that that loss, that tremendous financial loss that I had suffered in my business was going to be the groundwork, the framework for a movement. And so I was sitting down, putting everything together. You know, I moved quick. I believed in taking fast action. Put my book together in probably eight weeks and that’s from putting it together to printing. Came with a name and I wanted…

Joe Sanok: How did you come up with the name because I feel like that’s such a great name. I love it. But also it’s a very loaded name in our culture…

Taunya Lowe: It is very [00:24:11.05].

Joe Sanok: … and so it’s a risky name to have. So tell me about that decision, because I think I love it, but I feel like that would be a decision that a lot of people might second-guess.

Taunya Lowe: I wanted it to be something that had an impact. I wanted it to be something that had a punch. Because when you think about a riot, it’s disruptive, it’s emotional. It’s your all kind of over the place. And so I think about when you’re going through change, when you make this decision to change, when you make the decision to step out on faith, when you make the decision to start your own practice or move beyond your practice, you are going to have people say, but you already have a successful practice. But you… why do you want to do more? Aren’t you fine where you are. You can’t do this. You don’t have a business background. All of this step and you feel like you are in a riot. Because this is all coming at you at the same time. And for many people, Joe, they do nothing. They do nothing. And so what I say is start the riot anyway for your life, your business, in your career. But most importantly your legacy. Most importantly your legacy. And so it’s got to be scary. It’s got to be hard. There’s going to be some ups and downs, but it’s always worth it. It’s always worth it because you are pushing yourself to that next level.

Joe Sanok: So what does that look like? Someone wants to start a riot in their personal life, in their business, in their legacy. Take us through maybe three or four bullet points of how that starts.

Taunya Lowe: Okay. I can do that. So I always say the legacy part. And I’ll start there, is the most important because… and it doesn’t matter whether you have a family, you are in a career, you are in your business. Your legacy is what goes, it follows you. And so the reason that I was so successful when my business first started is because I created a great legacy. I started out with that mindset. And so when you decide to do something amazing, people are watching you. People are watching you and they watch what you do, they watch what you don’t do. And so if you are not doing it because you are afraid, then your family and friends are not going to do it because they are afraid. Because your children… you are not going to give your children the incentive to, the motivation to do it. Afraid. If you are always talking about I don’t have that money, I don’t have that money, then you create that legacy of lack, instead of abundance. And there are just little things that we have to do. And I call it, it’s the dance without limiting beliefs. We have to dance outside of them to create that legacy. So if you’re trying to create a legacy for your life, and that could be so many different things… I had a client a couple of days ago and she wanted to make some changes in her relationship because her relationship was affecting her business. She is trying to do some amazing things as a psychiatrist, trying to go to that next level, but her relationship has probably run its course. And so we just talked about what does that look like. You have… you see this happening. How much farther are you going to let this happen and what’s the plan to help you ease out of it or make it better. Again, here I am using my therapeutic background with my mindset strategy client. So you’re never, never out of it. Right?

Joe Sanok: Right.

Taunya Lowe: So that’s your life. So in your career… in your career it’s being the example. It’s being the influencer, it’s being the leader. It’s standing alone sometimes for what you believe is right and not following the crowd. It is being innovative. It’s bringing ideas to the table and not standing back because you want to be liked all the time. And so being a right starter is truly about… It is about innovation. It is about being an influencer and a lot of times it is about standing alone, and then in your business… in your business being a right starter, it’s about being bold. It’s about getting back up when you get knocked down. It’s about letting go of those things that no longer served you in your business, in your business. So there has been a lot of things, Joe, that we started out doing that we don’t do anymore because they worked well for us, you know, in the early days but not anymore because they were easy. They don’t work well today. So we had to let those things go and embrace even more technology, embrace funnels, embrace networking in a different way, embrace doing lunch and learns and going into corporate America and speaking to people about how we can help make an impact in their organization. So it’s about doing things that you have never done before and it’s about doing it affray.

Joe Sanok: Well, I think that that analogy of a riot when I think about cities that have gone through that in actual riot, it’s never the same again afterward and when we disrupt ourselves or business, we come out a changed person that’s different, that’s more mature, that has usually a more positive view of the world, but then I see cities even like Detroit that had immense riots and they for a long time had really struggled, but now are kind of reinventing what the city looks like as there has been fewer and fewer people living there and creating community gardens or repurposing old buildings. So often times we see that just like a forest fire that comes through, it releases all these new growth afterwards that wouldn’t have happened without the forest fire. I love that analogy of the riot.

Taunya Lowe: Thank you, thank you.



Joe Sanok: Well, so tell me little bit about some of the mindsets that stand in the way of the personal or business riot. What are things that you see that people commonly come to the table with and then how do you address those mindsets with people.

Taunya Lowe: The first one is fear. You know, oh my God. I am so afraid. I am so afraid of… fill in the blank… I am working with some doctors right now and they biggest fear is doing Facebook lives and so judgment. You know the fear of judgment. The fear of what if I get wrong. The fear of it’s got to be perfect and so the fear is something that it never goes away. We have to learn to dance with it and let it be our motivator, because what happens is when we are afraid, fear should pause us, not paralyze us. And so for many people they stop. I’m afraid I am going to stop.

Joe Sanok: Right, right.

Taunya Lowe: I said no, don’t let it paralyze you, let it pause you for a second. Find out, okay, what do I need. Do I need to talk this through? Do I need some more information? What do I need so that I can keep moving, so that I can keep moving. The other thing…

Joe Sanok: I have noticed, I have noticed… sorry to interrupt you, but I have noticed…

Taunya Lowe: Mm-hmm. Go ahead.

Joe Sanok: …with my own consulting clients that – around Facebook live as well – a lot of it is I think that when you’ve gone through higher education and you write a paper and do the draft and polish it to a perfect and then you [00:32:02.13] everything and then you turn it in and it’s pass or fail. Our entire education system has led us to a pass-fail system instead of an experiment system where, you know, you can always delete that Facebook live. You can always go back and do it again. You can revise it. It’s not this pass for the moment and it almost seems like those that have higher education have a harder time with that because so much of our education was on that pass-fail system. Have you seen that?

Taunya Lowe: Yes. Yes, I have. Yes. And one of the things that I told my clients is that, you know what, get out here and just do it because there’s going to be someone who has less experience, less education, and their hair is not as gray as yours, and there are going to be out there killing it…

Joe Sanok: Did you see my hair? You know we [00:32:52.29] video because my hair is still awesome…


Taunya Lowe: Exactly. They are going to be out there killing it and we got to stop beating ourselves up, and it does. It goes back to, I think he goes back to [00:33:05.18] we are all trying to get that A, and if we are not getting that A, then you we failed and the reality is in this new world of business, we have got to be okay with good enough and improving upon good enough, and I have gone through that myself, like okay. This is good enough to get started because what happens is when we are working toward kind of make it perfect. We never start. We never start.

Joe Sanok: Yeah, totally. I feel like what I see is that when people start trying things they realize all those fears that they put up in their head are way… it’s just way easier than they have thought. But also to your point about someone that has worse hair, doesn’t [00:33:52.12] as much as you, I think one thing that whether it’s a mommy blogger or some craft blogger, they approach it as I’m just sharing what I am doing and if you like it, great. If not, take it or leave it.

Taunya Lowe: Yeah.

Joe Sanok: Whereas I think as “experts” are those with higher education, we feel like we have to be the expert from the beginning. And for me, when I started practice of the practice, I was just blogging about business books. I was reading and saying here’s how I am applying it and really took that cold learner approach. I think that when people take that approach as a doctor or as a psychologist or whoever that’s doing Facebook lives or blogs, that when you take that “I am with you, we are in it together. I may have tried somethings. You haven’t tried. I’m just going to share with you what my experience has been.” That takes so much of the pressure off and say I have to position myself as the expert in this field right now.

Taunya Lowe: Right. Exactly, exactly. So true.

[Can I really do it?]

Joe Sanok: So that’s fear. What else gets in the way?

Taunya Lowe: Oh my God, the [00:34:45.23] believes it can I really do it. Can I really do it. So Napoleon Hill said, you know, if you conceive it, you can believe it, then you can achieve it. We can come up with some amazing visions, some amazing ideas, but we struggle with believing and achieving, and we struggle with the achievement because we are not taking action and we are not taking action because we really don’t believe. We don’t believe that it can really happen for us. Our belief muscles are weak. And so you’ve got to believe in yourself just like you watch television and you see someone doing something great. That could be you too. Just like you witnessed someone in the news and they are doing something great. That could be you too. You had to believe in your spirit that you can make it happen and if not going to happen overnight, no. But you got to be willing to do the work to make it happen. And so that’s another one that belief that “I don’t know, can I really do this.” So that, that self-doubt.

Joe Sanok: Well, I know that the research shows that when we picture ourselves six months from now, the part of our brain that see ourselves is the same part of our brain that sees the stranger and so I think bringing it back home to say if I spent two hours week writing this book, what’s that going to mean over six months if I have this finished book for my life, and then right now are feeling those feelings, so that it’s not some stranger in the future named Joe. It’s this Joe that if I start writing that book right now or if I start working on the e-course or I start raising my rates in counseling, is that genuinely going to help me in the future and let me dream right now about what that would look like. So that we are actually connecting that future self with that current self.

[You don’t need permission]

Taunya Lowe: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Joe, you know, another limiting belief that really stops people is the validation. You know, validation from the peanut gallery, whether it’s your patients, your spouse, you friends, your co-workers, your peers. You know, you need that validation that this is a good idea. This is okay for me to do and you don’t need permission or validation. You are not a parking stamp. You don’t need to be validated. If this is something that you really feel in [00:37:13.14] soul that you want to do, you are supposed to do. Or you just, “I want to try it to see.” You got to do it and I promise you that there will be people who will support you. It’s not always the people you want to support you. And that’s because a lot of times they can’t see it. It’s your vision. It’s your vision. You can see it clearly. But it really pains me when people have this amazing visions and they will say, well, my husband doesn’t get it or my family doesn’t get it or you have a great practice. You are already a doctor, just be okay with that. And what they are saying is be okay with being mediocre, be okay with being average when you have so much greatness inside of you. And they are not all the time saying it because they don’t want you to win. They are saying it because they feel like they are protecting you…

Joe Sanok: Absolutely, yeah.

Taunya Lowe: … and say you have to be careful. You have to be careful about that. You have to understand that. And then if you have that need and that desire where you got to have that validation, you got to have this permission per say, then it is something to work on. Work on that. Get a coach. Get a coach. Because your coach can help you work through that.

Joe Sanok: Well, even when I was leaving the community college to do this full time, you know, I talked to my parents. I have a good relationship with them, and they were really kind of encouraging me to stay with these golden handcuffs, and…

Taunya Lowe: Aha. [00:38:47.13].

Joe Sanok: …and I had to realize that they both… my dad is a psychologist, doctorial level, who was a school psychologist. So he got the pension when the pensions were great which they aren’t anymore. My mom was a school nurse, and then both my mother-in-law and father-in-law worked for the school. So all of the most important adult guides in my life at that time were people who had worked for someone else. When I realized that that was the narrative that they had because they worked for them and that they were trying to protect me to be able to experience as good a life as they had, I realized it wasn’t out of anything negative. It was that exactly that word that you said of – protection. But they didn’t have the experiences to say, well, how do you launch an e-course or how do you do…

Taunya Lowe: [00:39:29.27].

Joe Sanok: … and so when I started bringing people into my life that had been successful in those areas, they were people I can look up to in a different way, that changed everything, where I didn’t care if a local therapist understood what I was doing as much as, you know, I have people nationwide now that are listening to this podcast and worldwide. And that’s more important to have the people that I want to influence and have influence me, be the ones that are affirming my work rather than… I mean my mom is not my ideal client. So, it doesn’t really matter…

Taunya Lowe: Why? [LAUGH].

Joe Sanok: No. If mom… I know you are not listening to this because you don’t listen to my podcast usually. But if you are, sorry for that. [LAUGH].

[Needing Support from Family and Friends]

Taunya Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I get it. We want people to support us, and there is nothing wrong. I mean I have gone through that where I wanted my family to come to my events. And I want them to support me… And let you family and friends just be your family and friends, okay. They may not come to your events, listen to your podcasts or any of that. Let them love you from they are. And you go. It’ll be great and I promise you when you are on a big stage, you are getting a great award, you are on television, they are going to say, “that’s my girl.” “That’s my guy.” “I knew that he could do it.” “I have always been there.”

Joe Sanok: I never thought anything less though her being so successful. Yes, that’s so true. If it works out, everybody wants to brag on you, but when you’re struggling there, trying to figure it out, they are like, yeah maybe should go back to working in that full time job. [LAUGH].

[Worrying About Failure]

Taunya Lowe: Aha, aha. And I knew that was an obstacle when I hit that wall. Joe, when I hit that wall I was like, “Aaah, may do some more contracting,” but I can’t do that because once you’ve been out and you’ve seen what you can do, you wanted to do more. And don’t be afraid to fail. A lot of my clients, they don’t want to mess up. They don’t want to fail. They don’t want to get it wrong. And you are going to get it wrong. You are going to mess up. Because you don’t know what you don’t know until you mess up. “Oh, I didn’t do that.”


Joe Sanok: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Well, the last question I always ask all my guests is if every practice owner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Taunya Lowe: I want them to know that they are already prepared to step out and take their practice to an entirely different level. They are ready to step out and take themselves to a different level. And so whatever that looks like for them, if it’s writing a book, if it’s being an expert witness on a legal team, if it’s being a person on CNN, whatever it looks like for you, you’re already prepared to do it. Start making those relationships and go for it, and go for it the skies. It’s beyond the limit. So don’t unlimit yourself, because you have those dreams already. You are already dreaming about it. You are already thinking about it. So go ahead and start.

Joe Sanok: Ah, that’s so awesome. Dr. Taunya Lowe. She has the www.theriotstarter.com. What else should people know if they want to connect with you?

Taunya Lowe: So if they want to connect with me, www.theriotstarter.com is our event website, but they can connect with me at www.drtaunyalowe.com. That’s our website for all things – www.theriotstarter.com and www.drtaunyalowe.com.

Joe Sanok: Awesome. We will put that on the show notes. Thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice Podcast.

Taunya Lowe: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This is great.


Joe Sanok: Well, thanks so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. That was such an awesome interview with Dr. Lowe. And coming up, we have another Website Roundtable. I’m really excited about the people that I have involved for that. So we actually have three people that are going to be joining me. We have got John Clarke from Unconditional Media. He is the expert on Google Ads, Facebook Ads, paid advertising copywriting. So he is going to be joining us. We also have Jaime Jay from Slapshot Studio who does custom websites and does an amazing job. He is also a top podcaster and business coach. And then we also have Perry Rosenbloom from Brighter Vision. You guys all know Brighter Vision from them being a sponsor on this podcast, but also they just have a great business model to help counselors be able to grow their practices through their website. So the four of us are going to be chatting all things – websites. We are going to be talking about some of the essentials of a website. We are going to be talking about using websites as a funnel to get people kind of into your system and into your practice. Then we are going to be talking about the future of websites. So it’s going to be an exciting three episodes coming. Thanks so much for letting into your ears and into your brain. If you want to join that next level practice, that cohort that’s just starting up. Only 50 people are getting into it. We have 200 people on the waitlist. But at 10 a.m. on March 12, that’s when the doors open. But to get that link for the doors, you have to be on that waitlist. So that’s www.practiceofthepractice.com/invite. We would love to have you be a part of that if you’re brand new to starting for your practice. Have a great day.


Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intra music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It’s given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering any legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.


[END OF PODCAST] [00:45:07.20]