•  Visit Rebecca’s Website and connect on Instagram and LinkedIn.
• See also, The EB Birth Podcast

Joe Sanok 00:00:00  Every single phase of private practice has its own unique challenges and its own unique opportunities. Whether you’re starting and growing a solo practice, getting a group practice going, whether you’re already a group practice boss or you want to go big and go national with the skills you have, every phase has its challenges. And, you know, doing that in community with people and learning from other folks and having that guidance is so, so important. That’s why we have a membership community for every phase of practice. Next level practice is for solo practitioners to help you get organized, fill up your practice, and get that solo practice rocking. We have small groups, we have accountability partners. We have live events every single week. And also if in the first three months and the first 90 days, you’re not satisfied, we have a 90 day money back guarantee. Next we have group practice launch. Group practice launch is a six month program specifically for you to launch a group practice. We have weekly meetings with that as well as well as guided courses, and you get full access to next level practice, and you’re guaranteed to hire someone in the first six months, or you get to go through it again for free.

Joe Sanok 00:01:13  Next we have group practice boss. Group practice boss is for people that have group practices and want to continue to grow. All those ups and downs of having a group practice of changing that mindset, being in community with other people and getting that support from us. We with that as well, have weekly meetings and you get to come to next level practice events as well. So that’s eight meetings a month that you could come to live to get extra help. Also, there’s a 90 day money back guarantee. Lastly, we have audience building Academy. Audience building Academy is specifically for people that are ready to level up and go national. Maybe you want to get a traditionally published book. I have a podcast launch, some products and courses, and scalable income. Audience building Academy is specifically for you so that you can level up and go national. We’ll walk you through exactly how you go from having a solo or a group practice to going national. We’ll help you build your email list, get on podcasts, and really level up.

Joe Sanok 00:02:13  So no matter what your phase is, we have a membership community for you over at practice of the practice. Com forward slash memberships. You can read all about them and sign up. Go in there and decide which membership phase is for you and join today. Again that’s practice of the practice. Com forward slash memberships. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Sarna session number 1155. I’m Joe Stanek, your host. And welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast, where we help you build a thriving private practice that you absolutely Love, you know, you can have a thriving practice that just you hate so much. You can have a practice you love that’s not thriving. But we want to find that that intersection of the two. And, you know, when I had my counseling practice, I sold that back in 2019. I was always looking for ways to, to help clients in session and outside of session. And sometimes, it would be just like a last minute, like, this kid’s coming in, and I knew of this activity and I’d print it off real quick, and, and I didn’t really have a cohesive way of bringing it all together.

Joe Sanok 00:03:34  you know, I did end up writing a book called Mental Wellness Parenting. the name of my practice was Mental Wellness Counseling. But honestly, it was bringing together blog posts and different, research and different talks that I had done into a book. And it was just I viewed it as like a $2 business card that I could give to clients and that built authority. but it wasn’t that kind of cohesive content that I think, really would go over better now. And that’s why I’m so excited to have Doctor Rebecca Decker with us. Rebecca is a nurse with a PhD, is the founder and CEO of Evidence Based Birth. And the author of Babies Are Not Pizzas. They’re Born, Not Delivered. Previously, Doctor Decker was an assistant professor of nursing at University of Kentucky. In 2016, she shifted gears to focus full time on the mission of evidence based birth doctor Decker and team GB are committed to creating a world in which all families have access to safe, respectful, evidence based and empowering care during pregnancy, birth and postpartum.

Joe Sanok 00:04:36  Rebecca, welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:04:39  Thank you so much for having me, Joe.

Joe Sanok 00:04:41  Yeah, well, I, I remember now my kids are ten and 13. the pressure when a bunch of kind of around the same time our friends were all having kids and all these discussions and documentaries and have you seen this in the business of being born and all these things that it felt like such a big decision on how we were going to give birth. and it sounds like you’re doing work around kind of the evidence based side of that. what made you shift into focusing on that?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:05:13  Yeah. So I went into nursing to help people. That was, you know, my goal. And I eventually learned that I also love teaching. So I ended up going to graduate school in nursing. And so while I was in grad school, I got pregnant with my first baby, and I was not involved in labor and delivery, nursing or in obstetrics at the time, and I decided I had no choice.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:05:37  I had to give birth at the hospital that was connected to my university, because I had a student health insurance, and I decided I would just put all my trust in the medical professionals who would be taking care of me and the nurses and the doctors, because I was a nurse and I didn’t want to be one of those patients that they kind of gossip about at the nurses station. And so what I didn’t realize, though, is if, you know, you put kind of all of your faith into the people taking care of you, and you don’t do your own research and educate yourself about your options, sometimes you just kind of end up getting worse care just by default, because the American health care system is not set up or designed for the best health outcomes. So I ended up having a really strange experience where I went into the hospital. I was totally healthy, but they treated me like I was really sick. They told me, you’re not allowed to get out of bed, not even to use the bathroom.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:06:30  They told me I was not allowed to eat or drink anything, not a not even a sip of water. And I basically labored on my back in bed for 24 hours. Had a lot of things that were done to me during that time, and I was kind of afraid to say no because I was a bit of a people pleaser at the time. I still am, and I didn’t want to ruffle any feathers. And afterwards I thought a lot about what had happened to me. But it took me about a year. And if you any of your therapist who are listening work with people who’ve had babies often it’s like around the one year mark after a birth that you really start to process what happened to you. And I started realizing that some things had gone wrong and I wanted to know why. So I was getting my PhD. So I started pulling all of the research studies. I made a list of all the things that had been said to me or done to me while I was in the hospital, and I was shocked when I pulled up the research and found there’s just tons of randomized trials showing that all these things they made me do, or told me I had to do have been shown to either be not helpful or in some cases even be harmful to women who are giving birth.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:07:40  So that really, you know, kind of was a real big eye opening moment for me. I started gathering research and how can next time I have a better birth experience than I had several miscarriages and I had several years to, like, kind of mull over this. And so by the time I had my second baby, I had done so much research and I was able to set up a completely different birth experience for myself and my family, where the where the first birth, I felt kind of disempowered and disconnected, and I entered parenthood feeling like I didn’t know what I was doing. And then with the second birth, I was empowered. I had health care providers who supported me and respected my decisions, and I felt like a totally different parent the second time around. So that’s when I was like, well, maybe, maybe if this research was helpful to me, I can put it online and it might be helpful to like 10 or 12 people. And so I did that, and within a few months the information just started taking off.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:08:39  This was back before people started podcasts or social media pages. It was like you would start a blog was, you know, what you did back then. So that was 2012 and it just kept growing and growing. And what I found is there was this huge wave, a movement of young parents who were researching for evidence based information. You know, they wanted to know what is the research, say, where’s the information that I can trust and that, you know, I had I felt like I was just kind of writing this wave. I wasn’t actually doing a whole lot, although I guess I was, but it really felt like there was this movement of people that really wanted to know what the research said about childbirth. And I know that there’s like, sorry.

Joe Sanok 00:09:25  No, no, no, I was going to say that for me. Yeah, because my oldest was born in 2011, like that period of time. so we had a midwife who was also a nurse practitioner. And so to me, especially because we have a history of heart issues in our family and some complicated births, we had friends that were doing that, like home birth and a like blow up swimming pool.

Joe Sanok 00:09:44  And I’m like, well, that sounds hippy and fun, but like, I don’t if things go awry for our family, like, that’s just I would never forgive myself. but even just like looking at, I remember in this study, you know, might be outdated at this point. I remember hearing on a documentary I had watched about, just like the levels of pitocin given on a Friday, to just speed up the birth process and C-sections, and how oftentimes it just seemed like the doctors wanted to get out of there, and that there wasn’t even these best practices around, like when to use pitocin, when to do C-sections. And, you know, at least the community I was in, we were all just like, it was all brand new, that we didn’t have to just follow the typical birth script. And actually, the way the hospitals were doing some of those things might not have been helpful as you were creating that content. I imagine you also had to get comfortable with some pushback because you weren’t just following the typical narrative, like, what did that look like as you were putting yourself out there more?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:10:39  Oh gosh.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:10:39  Well, you know, I would say there were kind of two responses. One, either people absolutely loved what I was doing and they were like, finally, you know, there’s somewhere I can go to. and there was definitely pushback. for example, some of the staff at the hospital where I gave birth. I even set up a meeting with them before I started Evidence-Based birth to kind of talk about my concerns, like, I’m a professor now. I just felt like this is really troubling to me that these things are happening here and they really just, you know, they kind of met with me as a favor because I was a professor. But you could tell they had no intention of changing anything and definitely had pushed back in some places. and then there was also the people who still just don’t know what they don’t know, and they don’t know what to think about at all. So it was it was a mixed reaction, but for the most part, people were just hungry for this information.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:11:35  And I think one thing that we did differently, and this was my husband’s suggestion, because the first couple of articles I wrote and posted, he was like, Rebecca, these like come off as kind of like, you’re telling people what to do. You shouldn’t tell people what to do. You should kind of take away the bias and just give them the information, you know, your analysis of the research and then let people make their own decisions. And so we started doing that, you know, within the first couple of months. And that made a big difference as well, because one thing I’ve found is people kind of get sucked into these ideologies of any kind. But even around birth, you know, where some people were like, well, if you’re doing this way, you’re doing it wrong, or if you do this, let’s risky or to, you know, you should do this or you should do that. And so from the very start, we were like, here at Evidence-Based birth, we share the information and our analyses and summaries of the research, but we’re not going to tell you what to do.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:12:29  We believe in your autonomy and that you have a unique situation. And, you know, different people will make different decisions depending on their own specific medical and personal circumstances and values. And and that’s, I think, part of what made us different.

Joe Sanok 00:12:45  Yeah. And I think that there’s.

Joe Sanok 00:12:47  So many of those types of things like, especially early on and for first parents because it’s like a, I mean, I’m a first born. I want to do it right. My parents are firstborns. My mom’s a nurse practitioner. My dad’s a psychologist. It’s like everything points to, like, do it right. and so when it came to sleep schedules, when it came to like, attachment parenting versus different types of parenting, it just felt like every decision had so much weight. And I could, like, screw up this kid. And I think that over time I’ve learned that, you know, just showing up as a parent is one of like the best things that you can do and being there for them.

Joe Sanok 00:13:22  How did you evaluate where to take the content from a blog? because, you know, when people resonate with a blog, that’s one thing. But to actually, like, build a business out of that, like, what were some of your first things that you started to launch? beyond the blog.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:13:37  You know, the very I think the thing that made the biggest difference is I always asked, the people who were reading my work, what they wanted me to do next. And so from the very beginning, I put, you know, the clients or the listeners or the followers, whoever you call them, in the driver’s seat and I said, I will research what you want me to like. Let’s go on this journey together. And so they started just throwing out such, you know, really interesting topics that personally I had not experienced. So I wouldn’t think of writing about them. Like what’s the evidence on, the test for gestational diabetes or what’s the evidence if you, your doctor suspects a big baby, should you be induced? And what’s the evidence on having intravenous fluids in labor or being continuously monitored during monitored during your labour? So it just kept going.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:14:29  One topic that people suggested was like the evidence on the vitamin K shop for babies, and I had no idea that it was going to be controversial because I’m like, it’s just a vitamin, right? And I found that we’ve been researching this since the 1940s. There’s like decades of all these scientific studies on it. And when I released that article, it crashed the website because so many people around the world were trying to read it all at once, and we had to, like, uplevel our game and get a different web hosts that could handle the traffic. And yeah, so that was like letting them drive. The content was really helpful. I really the next thing after the blog and social media was, kind of developing some continuing education courses for pros in the field. So like any profession, people need continuing education. And that’s one way that I was able to really use my background as an educator and a professor to create continuing ed courses for nurses, midwives, doulas, and more. And then it just kind of kept growing from there.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:15:36  We didn’t release the podcasts until I think, 2017. So about five years in to the business.

Joe Sanok 00:15:44  So what’s the podcast done for growing your audience?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:15:48  So the podcast is called Evidence Based Birth Podcast. And one of the things that, I also realized early on is that I have a mixture of professionals in the field and parents who want to learn from me and from our team. So I would say it’s probably 60% health care workers and birth workers in the field, and then 40% people who are expecting a baby, and, or maybe who had a baby and are just still kind of interested in learning more. And so the podcast really focuses we have like one episode a month focused on the evidence on a specific topic, and those take a lot of time to put together. That’s why I can really only do one a month. And then we have two pros in the field who come and we interview them on specific topic that they can bring to people’s attention. And then we have, one couple per month come on and share their birth story together, about how they educated themselves and then how they were able to put that education into practice when it came to their unique birth experience.

Joe Sanok 00:16:54  And.

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Joe Sanok 00:18:09  Now like what is this done in regards to your business? Like how are you making money off of creating content? Like are there like tell me all the different kind of going from people that are consuming content for free? Like what’s that user experience into this being a business?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:18:28  Yeah, I guess the user experience would be first, like discovering what we do at evidence based birth. I would say the first, the most common way is actually through word of mouth or through Google searches, because we’ve been posting these long, in-depth articles for so many years that we rank really highly on all the search engine. for if you Google different information like vitamin K shot for a newborn, you know will be one of the top articles that pop up. And so people tend to come to our website. And then every topic that we post, a big, full length article on has its own 1 or 2 page handout that you can print and take to a doctor’s appointment with the evidence summarized for you. So kind of to use in your like just communication tool with your provider.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:19:13  And so people tend to download those and join our email list as a result. they listen to our podcast and then if they want to get more involved, we do a continuing education membership for pros in the field. And so that’s that’s the primary driver of like that pays the salaries then of the people on our team to publish the research. So all the research we publish is free to the public. But it’s kind of funded by this kind of continuing education model that’s happening in the background. And then we also have a childbirth class that, pros in the field childbirth educators, doulas, nurses, midwives, they can train to teach that class and they go off and are teaching that class. and then we have, I have a book babies aren’t Pizzas and do a few speaking engagements, but it’s primarily the, the continuing ed. Oh, and then we also have some physical products. So speaking of like how you can create evidence based content, we have these cute little pocket guides that, you know, a nurse or a health care worker could keep in their scrub pocket.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:20:18  so we have like the Pocket Guide to Comfort Measures for Labor and Birth. We have a pocket guide to, if your labor is being induced. And so those, also help fund our work. So we’re basically self-sustaining that way.

Joe Sanok 00:20:32  Love that.

Joe Sanok 00:20:32  Now, I’d love to shift into our listeners and opportunities, maybe for them to be able to start creating evidence based content for their clients, or even to go more broadly, it could be for other clinicians because there’s there’s folks that are like, highly skilled in certain areas that may be newer clinicians might want to purchase things or learn from them. Where would you say would be some of the first steps for someone to start evaluating how to create evidence based content for their clients or for other clinicians?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:21:01  I mean, I usually suggest to people to start with one path. I think we can get overwhelmed by all the options out there. You know, whether it’s social media or an email newsletter, starting a podcast or a blog or, writing a book, picking one thing and just getting really good at it is helpful.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:21:20  And then the other thing that I think a lot of clinicians and practitioners don’t really think about is the need for like short, easily digestible content that you can share with your clients or with other practitioners. So like I mentioned, those one page handouts, they’re printable PDFs that you can print and share or you can email to a client. Those have been, kind of the driving force behind what brings people into our, our Asian and there’s not a lot out there like that. So I would think it’s almost like the teachers pay teachers model, you know, where you’re you really need something. You need something like right now and so you can download it. And so I tend to use those more as like, you know, what we would call a lead magnet, a way to get people, who are willing to sign up for our email list. But they can also just be useful for your clients if you have access to handouts. Either that you’ve made or somebody else has made that you can easily print if they’re a virtual client or sorry, print if they’re an in-person client, or email to them if they’re virtual.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:22:29  so that that is one piece that I think is is missing also resource list. So one of the things that a lot of, you know, doulas who are labor support professionals, one thing that’s a really valuable aspect of their practice is their ability to connect their clients with all kinds of resources in the community. So having a print off with, you know, all of the different resources you might want to offer to your clients and having that be available on your website as a free download. If people join your email list or you know there’s other options as well for creating these one page. And now there’s it’s so easy to create them with Canva. Whereas before when I started it was like, you know, trying to use word and like text boxes and and copying and pasting images and stuff.

Joe Sanok 00:23:19  I remember our, I made this thing in the middle of the night when I first started practicing the practice, I woke up and had this idea of having like a 12 month, quarter by quarter, like what to do for marketing, what to do for clinical, like just all these different areas.

Joe Sanok 00:23:32  And I went into the office the next day and same sort of thing. Canva wasn’t out yet. or if it was, I didn’t know about it. And I made this whole like thing on on word with like text bubbles. And luckily I put the website in the bottom right because I think it’s been reopened like over half a million times. but it was just like one of these things that it’s like the ugliest, most just like not on brand.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:23:56  But the content was helpful, right?

Joe Sanok 00:23:58  Exactly, exactly. So as people kind of figure out the lane they want to be and they start to gather the content, you know, tools like Canva. Like how important is it to have, you know, the content you create, like look really good, like if you’re making video, if you’re making, checklist to make it look like on brand, how important is that compared to just getting the content out there, seeing if you like it, like not being paralyzed by perfection?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:24:22  Oh yeah. I had a business coach who always said, like, it’s better done than perfect.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:24:27  You know, just get it out there. And I do kind of agree with that, because I think people hold themselves hostage to perfection for too long, and then things just don’t get done. There’s this mental block that so many professionals have and clinicians that something has to be just right before it’s released. And if I had waited till I had a beautiful brand, I would have never published anything. You know, my my first logo was so ugly and depressing looking, but it didn’t really matter because I was helping people with the content that was on there. So yeah, I definitely think the the beautiful brand, it will come. And if you are already visually good at, you know, artistically good at putting things together, that’s great. There’s also so many websites now that you can use to hire pros affordably to quickly put handouts together for you if you’re not talented. So, I think Fiverr is one, Upwork is another. There’s several out there.

Joe Sanok 00:25:25  Yeah, we’ve used both those for for different things even like coding, like, we put together a staff wage calculator, that is for our members where they can enter all these things.

Joe Sanok 00:25:36  And it basically says like, how much money will you make if you hire a clinician and you’re making different percentages and it takes out all these different things, kind of like a pay stub. But if you just adjust different things and it changes your profit margin and stuff like that. And yeah, we found a coder for like 35 bucks to code up this whole staff wage calculator. And so, you know, those little projects on the side, I think it’s so helpful to figure out other ways to, to do that. what are other ways? I’m picturing the average clinician, you know, they’re in sessions and they may be are covering the same thing over and over in a lot of sessions, like what’s the opportunity there in regards to taking something they’re doing in sessions maybe teaching or you know, reflecting or just anything that they’re noticing is happening with multiple clients. Like what’s the opportunity there to create something that goes beyond the therapy session?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:26:24  Oh, gosh. There’s so many opportunities that I think it’s hard to, you know, you have to pick one, though.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:26:29  You can’t do it all. That’s one thing I’ve learned. You can’t do it all. But you could create a continuing education class and apply to be able to offer continuing ed credits for your profession and then turn it into an online course or, you know, propose to teach it at a conference. you could take that same presentation and, you know, create a YouTube video. So YouTube is another option that I didn’t really mention. But for a while there, YouTube was like the number two search engine behind Google. I think TikTok might have taken it over now, but YouTube is great for longer form video content, and that’s also another way you can kind of like, eat part of it. You have to think like, what’s my end goal? Like, am I just creating content to create content? Or what’s the purpose of this content? Right? So for me, the purpose is I want to make my business sustainable. Our business model only works if people buy our continuing education. And then we can keep putting out the free content for the public to help improve maternity care.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:27:35  But if your model is probably different than that is to think about, you know, maybe it is something to, make life easier for you, right? So that you’re not repeating the same thing over and over. But you could make a YouTube video on something and send it to your client before a call that you know you’re going to have to cover this topic and use that kind of flipped classroom model, which is what I learned when I was at nursing professor, where we would send the students the content, the videos that we wanted them to watch before class, and they would come to class. And then we could do like case studies and roleplays and quizzes and things like that. So it might be something that is just there to make your practice life easier.

Joe Sanok 00:28:19  The last question that I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:28:26  I think, you know, going back to that word sustainable to me, I think that, a whole world of like venture capital funding and capitalism and all these things, they, they tell business owners because most of your practitioners are small business owners, that if you’re not growing like you’re failing.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:28:48  And for me, I like to approach my life as a business practitioner a little bit differently in that I want to create like a beautiful, sustainable life for me and my family and also for the people who work with me. And so that involves more quality of life. Not so much, the quantity of what I put out. So just being really careful about what I commit myself to and asking, you know, everything that I say yes to means I’m saying no to something else. So this is your opportunity. If you work for yourself to build a life that does not overwhelm you because it is in your power to do that. And so sometimes we feel like we have to do it all, or we have to be perfect, or we have to put this out or that out. But deciding, like, what can I do that’s sustainable? What’s a pace that I can maintain like this? Life is a marathon. It’s not. You know, we do have little sprints from time to time, but you don’t want to wear yourself out.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:29:47  So consider how you can make your business sustainable and rest. Make sure you take time off.

Joe Sanok 00:29:56  So awesome.

Joe Sanok 00:29:57  And, Rebecca, if people want to connect with you, if they want to follow your work, where should we send them?

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:30:01  Yeah. And they can just Google evidence based birth or go to evidence based birth. Com we also have the podcast by the same name, and you can follow us on Instagram at EB birth.

Joe Sanok 00:30:12  so awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the practice of the Practice podcast.

Rebecca Dekker Ph.D. 00:30:17  Thank you so much for having me.

Joe Sanok 00:30:26  For me, taking those first steps into creating content that can go beyond that has the potential to go beyond my practice. was so helpful. you know, it started with doing just blog posts on mental wellness counseling.com, you know, to boost the SEO and then noticing what topics over and over got more traction, you know, being on local radio and talking about specific topics and writing for the local paper and just observing, you know, what are people resonating with, you know? And is there an opportunity there? For me personally, I found that the whole business growth and kind of consulting and going more national, that was exciting for me to kind of leave as much of the clinical world.

Joe Sanok 00:31:08  I definitely was burned out and working with angry teens and frustrated parents. But, you know, finding that lane of what practice of the practice offers, helped me then kind of double down on that. And, you know, over time, it was first leaving my full time job at the college. I still had the practice in this podcast and then eventually selling the practice in 2019. And then, you know, over time we’ve got more and more sponsors. So in 2024, I think we’re doing 5 or 6 episodes a week. this year, I’m not sure how many episodes at the time of this recording. I think it’s like 3 or 4 a week. so just be able to say we’re going to just dig in in the area that we know people like. And, you know, for us, that’s podcasting. Almost every single person that ends up giving us money in any way, shape or form says that it started with the podcast. And so that’s where we’ve doubled down in regards to our free content, to have just a library of now over 1100 episodes.

Joe Sanok 00:32:06  so I want to encourage you to start somewhere. you know, all of this started with just podcasting while my daughter was napping. And I would just go, you know, up to the attic, and I would put a blanket over my head to make the microphone sound better and just start podcasting. and then that was like twice a month. And then I said.

Joe Sanok 00:32:26  Well.

Joe Sanok 00:32:26  What would happen if I did this? you know, like, every week, what would happen if I did this, you know, a little bit more than that? and just investing more and more into it, just as I as I thought through it. Also, we couldn’t do the show without our sponsors therapy notes as our sponsor today. They are the best electronic health records out there. They will help you transition from whatever EHR you’re using right now. They have such an amazing platform to help you with billing, to help you out with virtual sessions. In fact, my daughter’s therapist uses it and it’s awesome to be on the client side and to see how I just put the information in.

Joe Sanok 00:33:03  And I just never think about even the billing. And it’s just so convenient to end the session with. When are we meeting next instead of, you know, pulling out a credit card or something? So, try therapy notes, use promo code Joe at checkout to get a couple months for free. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band. Silence is sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter cover. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.