How do you find your voice and message in private practice? How do you take the next step when you’ve outgrown your initial business goals? And finally, how can you market yourself and your big idea successfully?
In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Holly Chantal about how to stand out and find your unique voice within your business as well as how she aligns her clients with their next stage of business growth.
Holly Chantal helps trailblazers, visionaries and successful entrepreneurs bring their business to the next level.
Entrepreneurial goals can be a moving target, something Holly Chantal learned firsthand after successfully building a business as an online marketer and brand strategist that was on track to hit seven figures by the time she was 30.
Everything changed for Holly when her children were born and she found herself in a deep depression questioning what she wanted from life and consequently her business.
This lead to a deep spiritual awakening that resulted in her taking command of her business in a whole new way that suited her life as a mother and allows her to make an even bigger impact on the world. Today, she works with experienced service-based professionals who find themselves at a plateau in their business with no clear guidance on where to go next.
Whether her clients have veered off course from their initial goals, struggled with expansion plans or have found their business isn’t working for them on a personal level, Holly helps her clients gain clarity on what is keeping them stuck and what the next stage of their business looks like. She does this by combining her decade worth of experience in brand messaging, design strategy, and copywriting with metaphysical tools and intuitive gifts to bring their brand, business model, and marketing into alignment with their next evolution.
In This Podcast
In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Holly Chantal about how to stand out and find your unique voice within your business as well as how she aligns her clients with their next stage of business growth.
How do you set yourself apart to have a better business?
A lot of people struggle to talk about themselves, about how and why they do things. Those are all the things that make you unique and often practitioners don’t talk about those things enough in their marketing. Your unique personality and how you show up with your clients is likely the reason they keep coming back. It’s about creating an experience for your clients and then bring that into your marketing.
I’m going to help you build a business that lights you up.
It’s about listen to yourself and how you say things about yourself then including that in your marketing. When it comes to big ideas and differientating yourself, it doesn’t need to be a wild, crazy idea for it to work.
What is that big idea and how are you going to articulate it? Then be really consistent. Ideas don’t have to be that different in order for you to build a brand around it.
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Meet Joe Sanok
Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.
Thanks For Listening!
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[JOE SANOK]: Marketing your practice on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter is one of the most powerful things you can do to attract new clients. However, deciding what to post, where to post and when to post all on your own is extremely time consuming and takes time out of the day that you could be spending seeing clients. As the industry leading company that makes marketing simple for therapists Brighter Vision understands this and has developed a solution. With Social Genie, branding and marketing your private practice on social media has never been easier. Social Genie has a library of thousands of social media posts that you can edit, customize, and schedule across all platforms in a matter of minutes. Just choose your specialty and click ‘go’ and all of your social media posts can be scheduled out for months at a time. If you add your logo and websites, social Genie will automatically add it to each post so your branding is front and center to prospective clients. For a 14-day free trial, head on over to brightervision.com/grow. Again, that’s brightervision.com/grow.
This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session 396.
Welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. I am Joe Sanok, your host here at Practice of the Practice headquarters at the base of the Old Mission Peninsula in beautiful Traverse City, Michigan. I hope you are doing amazing today. Today I’ve been batch-recording a bunch of things. I’ve been getting a lot done. I try to work really hard on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and then take four-day weekends, and I love helping people figure out how to do that in their own lives too. We’ve got a couple of things this week that in addition to Brighter Vision’s awesome new product I wanted to just let you know about; so, as you probably know, we are in the middle of opening cohort number 10 of Next Level Practice.
Next Level Practice is the community for learning how to start and grow a practice. We have over 30 e-courses, we have three to four live events every month, we have small groups, we have small group leaders, we have book studies. Really if you are starting a practice and you want to make it easier on yourself, head on over to practiceofthepractice.com/invite and then you will get all the emails about joining Next Level Practice. If you want to just jump to the front of the line, go to practiceofthepractice.com/door. Also, this week we’re doing some webinars over at practiceofthepractice.com/100Kwebinar teaching you how to make a 100K in two years step by step week by week, walking through what you need to do with those numbers and marketing over your first two years of private practice. Well, today I am so excited to introduce you to Holly Chantal. We had an amazing interview and we talk all about how to stand out. I mean this is something we all need to know whether we are starting a practice, growing a practice, scaling it, building big ideas, whatever it is that we’re doing. It’s really important to stand out and to find your voice and find your unique message. So, without any further ado, I give you Holly Chantal.
Well, today on the Practice of the Practice podcast, we have Holly Chantal. Holly helps visionary service professionals bring their brand, business model, and marketing systems into alignment with their next stage of growth. Holly, welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[HOLLY]: Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.
[JOE]: Yes. When I read your bio, I’m like, “That’s pretty much everyone in my audience.” So, how did you start working with visionary service professionals because that’s an awesome way to frame out an audience.
[HOLLY]: Yes, so the other word I used to call them is trailblazers and they’re basically those service professionals whose title does not come anywhere near describing the value that they offer. So, they’re the people that, you know, the coaches, the therapists, the private practitioners that might be getting phone calls for basic services and people are coming to them for, with an assumption of what they do. But there’s actually so much more to it than those stereotypes hold essentially and they’re not really sure how to articulate those things in their marketing so that they can get more people that are looking for them specifically. That makes sense?
[JOE]: Yes. I mean, take us through a little bit of your backstory because I think it’s always interesting to hear how people that are into marketing landed on their kind of ideal client they’re working with now. Like how’d you get here?
[HOLLY]: Yes. So, I’ve wanted to do business since I was a little kid and originally, I went into veterinary medicine and was going to have a practice in that kind of business. But what happened is, as I was going through college, I realized that that really wasn’t for me and kind of fell into the coaching space. That was my first target audience because I just, it’s kind of like this underground community that the general population doesn’t know about and once you see it and understand it, it’s really just powerful. A lot like seeing the things that people are capable of and helping them achieve their visions was just very attractive to me. So, I decided to go into that space. Initially as a coach myself, my intention was to help people achieve their dreams.
I actually almost got certified as a “dream coach” but realized that my business instincts were much more needed than my inspirational messages. And I find that business comes really intuitive to me and I’ve had, this is actually my third business, I had a couple in college that took off and were really successful and I have really good instincts for it. So originally, I started off in website design and doing web strategy and web marketing and copywriting and sales funnels and those kinds of things. What I found was that the people coming to me really didn’t know what to ask for. So we did a lot of work on getting really clear on who their target audience was and getting really clear on, “Okay, how do we articulate what it is you do and the value and how do we talk about your offer so that people really understand what they’re getting, and they’re not so much looking at the price versus the hours, which is really kind of slippery slope to fall into, especially when you’re in like a private practice, or they’re coming to you with those expectations.
So, it’s helping them with those things. And I figured out that that’s like really my genius and that I have a lot of creativity and writing ability to really get those messages across to the right people. So, that’s kind of where I veered off from design and a couple of years ago, my business partner who did all the artwork, and I did the strategy, we parted ways because he was retiring, wanting to do something else. I’ve kind of hung onto the brand messaging, the creating, you know, signature systems and offers, and now I’m really focused on helping experienced business owners who I feel like they’re at a plateau or feel like they’re kind of coming up some kind of barrier where they can’t really grow beyond where they are, figure out what that next step is and then bring their entire business into alignment with that next step so that they can move forward into bigger and better things. Oh, that was a really long answer.
[JOE]: No, I love it. No, that’s awesome. I feel like I could go in like 20 different directions, but that’s amazing. Now when you say signature, you said signature systems and offers, was that right?
[JOE]: Okay. What does that mean?
[HOLLY]: So, you have a particular way of doing things that you might not even realize. So, a lot of the clients I work with, they’re working with a lot of different, you know, they’re working one on one with a lot of their clients. While they don’t realize that there’s a pattern to their work, they feel like it’s customized for every person. Usually there are particular, like keys to the kingdom. There are certain things that they do that other practitioners don’t. And they might not realize that it’s unusual. Sometimes it’s a talent or a skill that they have that other people don’t. Again, they don’t realize as unusual. And when we can pinpoint what that is, we can create kind of your own proprietary process too. That essentially is your “signature system”, that can be packaged in a variety of ways so that you’re able to really sell the value of doing things your way and people understand it so much easier because it’s now tangible and it’s well expressed versus someone having to work with you in order to get it.
[JOE]: So, I’m going to be selfish here and totally disregard the audience because they probably care more about the clinical side, but we knew, so, we just bought podcastlaunchschool.com, we’re planning to build an e-course. If I was your consulting client, what would you ask me about Podcast Launch School to help me narrow in on the kinds of things that I should be thinking through as I build that out?
[HOLLY]: So, usually we start actually with looking at who your competitors are and competitors can kind of be a dirty word in this space because we’re all about abundant mindsets and we don’t really want to play against each other. But I look at competitors as what are the other opportunities your clients have for solving their problem other than hiring you. And when you can do that, you look at the other people in the marketplace that are offering something similar and what is their philosophy behind what they do? Like why do they believe that their services are so essential, and then why do you believe your services are so essential? And you can find little points of differentiation there that, I might call this your philosophy. So, it’s these points of differentiation that will draw the people to you that agree with your way of viewing the world.
The other thing you would look at is, okay, how are they solving the problems? So, what does their method look like? Why do they do it that way? And then looking at yourself, what is your method, and why are you doing it that way? And what, just doing this very preliminary research and if you’re not sure who your competitors are, the DIY model is essentially a competitor because that’s another opportunity where someone could solve their problem, and I’m sure you could find like a million pitfalls doing it that way, but it gives you kind of a starting point for you to start to create a way to explain the value behind doing things your way. And you don’t even need to mention, like in your actual marketing, you don’t have to mention your competitors. We’re not putting anyone down but for you it’s just giving you something to compare to so that you can articulate it. Because oftentimes if I were to ask you, “Okay, well what’s your process? What makes you different? You have these kind awkward answers where this way really kind of makes it a little bit more conversational.
[JOE]: That makes sense. So, what would that look like in a private practice? So typical therapists, massage therapists, coach, they’re kind of running things, seeing clients, maybe they have some clinicians that are working for them. Like how would they look at their systems and create that into something that the rest of the world might be interested in.
[HOLLY]: So, I find that pretty much any system has this arc that it goes through, and you’ll find this in almost any, at least I know any marketing book you read has this arc. And I know that nine times out of 10, my clients have this big picture that that will fit how they work with clients. So, I’ll tell it to you guys and you can kind of adapt it to yourself and kind of find where you fall within it. But usually, like your system’s going to start with more of an exploratory process. So, gathering information and understanding kind of where the client is now and what their goals are and what’s kept them from achieving those goals up until now. You know, what are the obstacles that are in their way, whether that be physical, mental, emotional.
And then from there, moving into what is the action plan. So, gathering, you know, in some cases, gathering the materials, putting together a protocol, getting, you know, if you’re working with physical supplements or medications or that kind of thing, like putting together that plan and then after that would be implementation. So actually, like ongoing, putting this into practice and dealing with the challenges and the pitfalls that happen as you’re putting your plan into action. Those are like the three big picture pieces, and within that you can find kind of your points of differentiation. Like you might go through that exploratory process differently than another practitioner. You might prescribe different protocols based on your own philosophies in what’s you have found to work for your clients that differs from a different practitioner. So if you look at that arc and then, you know, really look at, “Okay, how do I deliver on each of these things and do I have,” you know, certain might be modalities that you use that you really rely on and you feel are really important or it could just be you have particular talents or things about you personally that make these things work in a way that your clients are finding tremendous value in.
Once you pinpoint those, they become a little bit easier to articulate. But usually, it’s kind of a situation of not being, like not seeing the forest for the trees. Like you don’t even realize that what you do is unusual or different or cool until you actually start looking at these really foundational pieces.
[JOE]: Well, even how you talked about your own work at the beginning, I think, I love how unashamed you were, where you said, “This is my genius.” You know, “I started these businesses,” and, you know, it doesn’t come across as bragging. It comes across as confident in who you are and knowing who you are and saying, “I can make a difference with that.” So, I think one thing that I know that you’re really known for is talking about kind of setting yourself apart. How does this fit into that? Is this just kind of like one of the pillars of setting yourself apart or how do you frame that out when people say, “Man, I am in a competitive market. I’m in LA, or I’m in New York, or even rural America. How do I set myself apart to have a better business?” What do you walk them through?
[HOLLY]: So, part of it is kind of what you were just saying. You know, I’m able to say that I’m a genius at these things, that being bragging without bragging. I think a lot of people struggle with that, like talking about themselves and how they do things, why they do things that way, what their talents are. And those are all the things that make you really unique and I don’t think that practitioners are talking about those things in their marketing enough. They might be relying on, you know, the evidence that backs up the modalities that they’re using versus like what they are actually bringing to the table and what their talents are. So, they feel like the, say the practical and logical reasons, why, you know, their way, their methods are the best are actually what are getting people to buy.
In some cases, yes, that’s true. Like, it’s definitely important because it is a piece of authority and it kind of backs up what you’re doing. However, there’s an emotional aspect that’s really, really important. And that just comes from your personality and your voice and how you’re showing up. These are the foundational pieces of what differentiates you. So, how I approach branding is kind of a two, it’s like a (totally blanking on like the word here). I don’t want to say double-edged sword, but it’s like two sides of the same coin. That’s what it is. Two sides of the same coin, which is, there’s the practical logical, which is positioning.
So that’s, “Who’s my target audience? What are the problems they’re having? What are what are my methods and why do I do them that way? And then the other side is your personality. So, what are, how are your clients experiencing your work? Are you creating that experience in how you talk and your voice and how you have your space set up? I have a client who is a personal trainer and she creates an entire experience for people when they come to her workshops with crystals and meditation, and it’s just a whole different experience than if she’s teaching like body rolling, which is a very functional thing. And it’s something that you can go on YouTube and look up how to do, however, she’s creating such a relaxing and spiritual experience when doing this that it’s really a point of differentiation.
So, looking at those little special touches that you do that are really kind of reflection of who you are and your beliefs and the things that you are just called to share with people. Those are all points of differentiation and they belong in your marketing. They belong on your website. They belong, you know, you can probably find testimonials or ask for testimonials from your clients that will speak to those things.
[JOE]: I’m going to do a little asterisk there. So, most of our code of ethics don’t allow us to directly ask for testimonials but one way that you can get around that is to have an annual survey that’s anonymous and then just say, “Can we use these comments in our marketing without using any identifying information?” So, I just wanted to, I mean, that’s something that’s just unique to our field. So how, I feel like people have a lot of those things that they differentiate from their market, but they don’t first realize that they really are unique in it. And second, if they do put it into their marketing or their social media, they usually do it in a way that feels awkward or forced. So, what are ways that people can first identify those unique areas, and secondly, market it without it feeling forced?
[HOLLY]: I have so many clients that come to me and they’re like, “I’m boring. There’s nothing special about me.” And, it always cracks me up because yes, if you have friends and family that adore you and hang out with you, you’re probably much more exciting than you think. So, I think a big part of it is, and I know that there’s professional barriers here that need to be maintained. However, bringing more of your, more of a conversational tone into your marketing versus just really kind of academic, clinical speak on your website copy, for example, but really bringing in that warmth in that friendliness that I know you have, otherwise you would not be in this industry. Like the profession that you chose speaks a lot about who you are and bringing in that personal aspect and talking to them as you probably do in your sessions.
But taking that conversational, turning that personal aspect into your actual marketing, actually will feel much natural. And I think that practitioners are just putting a lot of pressure on themselves to appear professional, but, like, you’re not trying to beat other people out on like, who can be more professional. It’s more so like, who’s the best fit for this client or this patient? Like who is the best fit for this person? And they’re going to choose the person that they feel comfortable with and that they want to have a relationship over, you know, the person that has more credentials and, you know, the robotic academic speech.
[JOE]: Yes. So, are there ways that you found that people have done that? Like any case studies that you’re like, “Oh, I loved how this person really thought that they were nothing special but then they transitioned in this way.” Any practical ways that you’ve seen people do that?
[HOLLY]: Yes, every day. But obviously when you ask me for a specific example, my mind goes like, “Ah.” So yes, I can say yes, but I can’t give you like, “Go to this website and look at that.”
[HOLLY]: But you notice like when you’re looking, you know, if you’re, I mean you, for example. When you are opening up your podcast and you’re talking about drinking your smoothie and then I think you, I was listening to one and you like accidentally got some stuck in your throat. It goes a little like that. You could have edited that out. You know, you could have just start over, hit record again, but instead you brought that into the podcast and it kind of made me giggle and I was like, “Okay, I like that. He’s being real.”
[JOE]: Luckily, it’s purely [inaudible 00:22:03] that I don’t want to edit that much.
[HOLLY]: Even the fact that you say that is personality, like saying like, you know, “I’m lazy, I don’t want to do that.” Like, it’s funny and it’s personable and it’s relatable because we’re all human and yes, even if I’m hiring you to solve this really important problem that I have, I still want to relate to you on a human level.
[JOE]: Yes, and I think therapists in particular really struggle with that because they, and you mentioned that whole kind of professional boundary. I do think that I’m seeing that people that are most successful are the people that bring more of that into their social media and more of that into their website. I was actually just listening to a discussion with Amy Porterfield and Rick Mulready about how right now the best videos on Facebook advertising, that are kind of ranking the highest and like people are getting the most return on investment are ones that are really informal. So, someone pulls out their phone and they say, “Hi, I’m Joe. I’m walking into mental wellness counseling right now and I’m so excited to go into a whole another day of just helping people overcome challenges in their life of anxiety and depression. I’m just really geeked about today. Click the link below if you’re interested in getting started with counseling”
Like something informal like that, which is super easy for all of us from now because we have a phone versus some highly edited video. People are clicking way more on those kinds of videos, and I think just, for me, when I work with consulting clients, maybe you have some exercises too, even just saying like, “What’s the transformation you see?” People come in this way, they’re overwhelmed and then by the end of a few sessions they have a plan for their marriage or they just found out someone’s cheating on them and within a few sessions they realize whether they want to stay and work hard on it or whether they want to leave and set some clear boundaries. Like just that transformation discussion makes any of that social media just come across as like, so dynamic because people can then picture themselves in it or they can self-select out like, “Oh my wife and I, I don’t think she’s having an affair. So, I guess that’s not for me. So, okay, great.”
[HOLLY]: Right. And it’s not that, you know, “That’s not for me, so I’m going to unsubscribe and stop paying attention to you.” It’s just, “Okay, this one wasn’t for me,” and they move on with their lives and then the time that you do show up with the thing that is relevant, that’s when they’re really going to pay attention. And I love the casual videos and really showing up as yourself because kind of like, you know, the license to be lazy. Like, I don’t always put on makeup for my Facebook lives. You know, I have two kids. Sometimes it’s not possible and I just show up as I am because that’s how my clients see me. Like I’m not doing myself up every time I have a client meeting because yes, there’s a lot of them.
[JOE]: I wonder also, so kind of going back to the systems and standing out thing, we have this whole kind of arm of Practice of the Practice of people that are working on big ideas. So those are things that are outside of a typical therapy practice. So, we have one person, she is this major Instagram influencer who helps people with, like babies and sleep and all of that. We have another guy who is working on kind of transformational process. We have all these people that are doing really big work. How do you help or how do you maybe even could help the audience think through those big ideas that are outside of the kind of classic clinical work that a lot of our listeners are going through?
[HOLLY]: Yes. So, the first thing you want to do is figure out what is that big idea and how are you going to articulate it and then be really consistent, because ideas that, you know, ideas don’t have to be outlandishly different in order for you to build visibility, authority and a brand around it. For example, Amazon, their claim to fame was the two-day free shipping. Like that’s how they built the empire that they did. That is not unique. At the time it was kind of like revolutionary because everyone was paying for shipping and it was regular shipping, but that’s like how they broke out. So, you can do the same thing in just being consistent with the you believe in and what you feel is really important and just repeating it in different ways and delivering it in different ways.
So, with my clients, we find out what those messaging pieces are. So, we have like the promise, which is, this is the result. We’re trying to achieve this as the Holy grail that my clients want. And then there’s the method, like how you do that. And that method is not usually tangible. It’s usually something that it’s more of a feeling or it’s just a kind of approach. It’s kind of like just the why you do things the way you do them. So, myself, for an example, like my promise is that you’re going to have a business that will light you up. So, if you’re feeling stagnated, if you’re feeling like you’ve been kind of pulled off in the wrong direction or your business just is kind of, you’re burning out, that kind of thing, I’m going to help you build the business that lights you up.
And then how I do that is using an integrated approach. So, taking the personal growth and the mindset shifts in the beliefs that you have and like the mission that you have. And marrying that with the really functional practical strategies of sales funnels and you know, website copy and webinars and like all of the tools that you need in order to deliver it. And we kind of bring those together and we customize all of that based on what’s going to light you up. So, they kind of go hand in hand. And again, not revolutionary. I’m sure there’s other people that have very similar message, but because I’m repeating it and delivering it over and over again in different ways, it begins to build authority around that. And you start to be seen as a thought leader in that space.
[JOE]: Well I think that’s so true and I mean, so many businesses, you look at any social media that takes off, it’s like Instagram was visually based and you could put cool filters on things. Like Twitter, it’s, you know, started with 120 characters, like Tik-Tok, that, you know, I just got addicted to it with my daughter looking at these like short, like ten second videos and the creativity of people, it’s like I just —
[HOLLY]: And they always stop like right when you’re like really into it.
[JOE]: So addictive. I just saw this one and my daughter and I were just blown away. They took all these just pieces of wood and like poured this, I don’t know, like plastic thing on it and then turned it into this bowl and it was just like insane. So, but it’s like a simple idea that then allows kind of the community to do something revolutionary or interesting with it. And I think that that’s such a good point that we overthink what our big ideas have to be. And so even just thinking about practitioners that are helping, say someone that has dealt with trauma, maybe they’re an EMDR therapist, like how would that look if you are to help people well before they came to therapy, but on a nationwide level?
So, you obviously can’t do one-to-one, but what are these systems? Just like what you’re saying here, like what are those systems that you would love people to go through, well before they come into therapy with you? I’m sure that you have like, thought processes, ways that people can combat different ways of thinking about trauma. Creating a system and a program that you wish your clients would go through before they came to you, I mean, that’s going to be something that other clinicians would love to buy also.
[HOLLY]: And it’s really all about helping more people. Like the reason that you’re in this business is because you have a calling and a desire to help people. So, the more you can get that message out there and the variety of ways that you can, like the more people you’re going to be helping. And that’s also the divine economy. It’s going to come back to you in the form of having the lifestyle and the, you know, having clients coming in and that kind of thing that you want.
[JOE]: Oh yes. It’s so awesome. Well, Holly, the last question I always ask people is, if every private practice owner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?
[HOLLY]: I’d want them to know that you’re probably not as hot of a mess as you think you are when it comes to your messaging and if you listened to yourself and how you describe what makes you different, all of the variety of ways that you probably have said it, there’s a common thread there that really is something special and something that needs to be brought into your marketing even more.
[JOE]: Holly, I love that. You are not a hot mess.
[HOLLY]: You are not a hot mess.
[JOE]: That is awesome. So, if people want to connect with you, if they want to connect with your work, what’s the best way for them to connect with you?
[HOLLY]: So, my website is hollychantal.com and you can also find me on Facebook as well.
[JOE]: Awesome. Well, we’ll have links to that website in our show notes. Holly, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[HOLLY]: Yes, this is so much fun. Thank you for having me.
[JOE]: Well, go take some action this week. Don’t just sit around and consume podcasts. Do something with it. And if you want to check out Brighter Vision’s new Social Genie, head on over to brightervision.com/grow. It is an awesome new service that they are putting out there and it’s going to help you on social media so much. Also, don’t forget about all the stuff I mentioned at the beginning in regards to Next Level Practice and in regards to the webinar we have coming up. That’s the hundred K webinar. And thanks, so much for letting me into ears into your brain. Have an amazing week.
This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one. And thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We love it.