Joe Sanok 00:00:00  I'm so excited to introduce you to the best website designers out there. We have a brand new partnership with session sites. It is where good therapy meets brilliant design, and they get your website switched over or built in less than two weeks. They fine tune your messaging, use science backed user experience methodology, and work exclusively with mental health professionals. In fact, new clients right now are going to get three free therapy marketing strategy calls with their creative director of session sites. If you book today, you're not going to want to miss this. Head on over to session sites.com/joe again that session sites.com/joe get the website of your dreams today session sites.com/joe. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Sarna accession number 1139. I'm Joe Santa, your host, and welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast, where we are helping you build a thriving private practice that you absolutely love. you know, for years I had a counseling practice and eventually sold that in 2019, to my friend and also, now colleague, Nicole, who works for Practice the Practice now as a consultant.

Joe Sanok 00:01:30  But they have three locations at mental Wellness Counseling. She's just rocking it out. And there were times when it was thriving and I didn't love it. And there's times that I loved it and it wasn't thriving. And so a lot of that information that I just didn't have access to coming out of grad school, that's why we do the show. We talk to people that are in the field, are outside of the field, that support the field, that just have inspiring stories. So if this is your first time listening, welcome. You're in the right place. I mean, I think unless you're looking for a different kind of podcast, but really glad that you're here. And if you've been here a while. Thanks for coming back. I am so excited to have my friend Jenna on the show today. Jenna Morris is a health and wellness professional, personal growth junkie, and counselor in training. She's devoted to helping others live authentically with passion and pain. Free. From book clubs to international wellness retreats, Jenna offers a variety of ways to create transformation and connect with a unique, mindful community.

Joe Sanok 00:02:27  Jenna. Welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast.

Jenna Morris 00:02:30  Thank you Joe. Thrilled to be here.

Joe Sanok 00:02:32  I mean, you didn't put in there that we're in improv together also. I mean, that seems like that should have been the first line.

Jenna Morris 00:02:40  Yes. That is, my favorite connection between us, among many. But yes, improv too. Lights me right up.

Joe Sanok 00:02:48  Yes, I love it. Yes. so you have. It's been fun to watch your journey where, you know, a while ago you were working for, like, an organization, and then you started doing all this stuff out of it felt like to me, out of nowhere. On social media. And maybe I just didn't follow you where then all of a sudden you had this whole kind of, like, company going where you're doing these wellness retreats, talk through that transition into kind of creating your own business, your own. I guess identity online, like, where did that come from? Where did that idea come from? And walk us through that journey?

Jenna Morris 00:03:22  Well, that idea came from some hardship, as I think sometimes how art is created.

Jenna Morris 00:03:29  I went through a pretty nasty breakup last November and I wallowed for a little bit. But then, oddly enough, come January 1st, even though I'm not a huge resolution maker, I thought, okay, I'm going to put my boots on, stand up tall and go get the things that I want in life. And I did. So one of the things I wanted in life, and I had actually already planned to host my first retreat in Mexico in February as of this year, February 24th. So I had that underway. But I was petrified over hosting that. And so I years ago had signed up for Marie for Leo's B school. And then, oh yeah, when I was like, put my boots on, let's stand up and go, I finally listened to the course. Thankfully, she gives you lifetime access, but that's really what spurred me into action and I was really diligent about it. normally when I commit to something, I see it through to the end. But it takes getting to that commitment point.

Jenna Morris 00:04:35  So anyway, she guided me through some of the steps to put what my thoughts were into real action. And so that's when I rebranded my name. I launched a different website. I hired someone to do it this time, and usually I do everything on my own. but I decided to really invest in it and it worked. I mean, it worked enough to the point where I'm still ready to keep going and exploring what comes next.

Joe Sanok 00:05:03  I want to pause right there. I want to underline, highlight. It worked enough. I think that's something that so many people are scared of, that when they want to shift into something new that they think that it's going to, it's going to work right away. And I love that you said it worked enough. What was enough for you?

Jenna Morris 00:05:22  Enough for me was having enough signups for my first retreat and then launching my first digital course on my website. Small, super small course. I had lofty goals of launching a 50 hour course and then was like, let me launch a five hour one.

Jenna Morris 00:05:41  And that made me feel successful. And then launching and planning my second retreat for the year, which I didn't fully anticipate. But I did, and I wound up not fully selling it out. But again, I sold it enough where it worked, and I made some money and it gave me hope that this would keep growing. And really, what I think the best outcome was was having repeat sign ups from my initial retreat all the way till for next year. I already had one planned in April. People from both of those occurrences signing up again. So that's what I mean by it worked enough. There's room for improvement, always. But I'm thrilled with where it's gone so far.

Joe Sanok 00:06:21  Yeah. Now, what skill sets did you already have when you were ready last January to launch some of this? So you weren't totally starting from scratch? You. I know you have some yoga certifications and you had like, what kind of background did you have that kind of going through this process you had to access that was already there.

Jenna Morris 00:06:40  Well, my original degree was actually in graphic design. So I went to Columbia College in Chicago and I worked for a stint in advertising as a designer before I switched to fitness full time. So I do credit some of my ability to create posts and amend my website on my own to having some of that skill set. That helps tremendously. And also, yes, so these wellness retreats are right now, they are yoga based and they're adventure based, and they're meant to be fun experiences that bring people together in community in the future. After I graduate and I'm a counselor, I'd like to host therapeutic retreats or somatic healing retreats. But regardless, I have the skill set of yoga and facilitation. I've led teacher training, so I am very comfortable leading a group and very organized. That's something. As a Virgo, if you follow astrology, we are the Type-A, perfectionistic, organized freaks.

Joe Sanok 00:07:42  Well, and I think that's it's so funny how sometimes we think we are starting from scratch, and then when we really stop and think about our history, how there's so much we can pull from that give us a unique voice in spaces, you know, even just being into yoga and adventure, like knowing the retreat you just did that, our friend Aaron went on.

Joe Sanok 00:08:01  And obviously a bunch of other people, where you were in Glacier. And it's like when he was describing it to me, and I'll let you kind of describe what that was like. it was so, Jenna, like in a really positive way, in a, like, not in a like look at Jenna, but in a wow, it has your fingerprints all over it in a way that didn't sound like a typical type of yoga retreat. maybe walk us through that one and maybe even the one in Mexico. Like, how have you put your own fingerprints on this to create unique experiences?

Jenna Morris 00:08:32  that is interesting to hear that. You. You said it sounds so. Jenna, I got a score mentor. If you're familiar with score earlier this year. free mentorship for those who aren't familiar. for budding entrepreneurs. And in the beginning, he said, you're creating products that you like. Jenna, what about what does your consumer like? And I disagreed with that in a way, because, yeah, I want to create products that I like to attract the clients that I like who won't fully be like me, but I think would be interested in similar things.

Jenna Morris 00:09:09  So yes, I created them based off of what sort of trip I would want to go on. And when you look in the world of retreats, there can be so many different ways you can frame them, especially in the yoga world. They could be really deeply philosophical. They could be really physical and active. But to me, I like the blend and the balance of being physical, being active, blending in really good food and wine because life. Yeah, about balance to me. and creating pockets of space where people can connect with each other. That's one of the most important things to me. Something truly magical happens, I think when you put a group of people together in one space where there's not an overwhelming amount of activity where you can connect with yourself and nature and each other. And just to watch the group blend and gel together so quickly is as a facilitator, I think, one of the most gratifying things, that by the end everyone is like an old friend, even though they've known each other for four days.

Jenna Morris 00:10:11  So I think really to me it was honoring those pieces, but then also honoring where we were so trying to create unique experiences that were congruent with the area. So in Montana, we did fly fishing and horseback riding. In Mexico, we visited cenotes and we did, plunges on the beach and beach walks and and whatnot. So trying to draw people into the culture as well, was something that was really important to me.

Joe Sanok 00:10:42  Now, I'd like to talk a little bit around some of the logistics, like there's kind of the marketing phase of getting people to sign up. There's the, actual planning of, you know, the fly fishing or the Senate. And, you know, whether you work with someone that's local, that is organizing all of it versus you're kind of putting together the itinerary. Walk us through kind of your order of operations when you're thinking through a retreat in a new place.

Jenna Morris 00:11:10  Yes. It can be a lot of work. So if you don't enjoy the planning aspect of something it will be a challenge.

Jenna Morris 00:11:19  The first thing I do is scout the space. So I typically will lean on resources and recommendations from fellow instructors that I know or get recommendations from someone they know. And then I just have to gather the details of what's the cost of the retreat? What does it wind up being per person? What activities do they include, if any? So, for instance, in Mexico that retreat was specific to it was a retreat center. So it was maybe some people could go stay there on their own. But for the most part it was instructors booking their retreats there versus Montana. That location was more of a in the past. It was a working cattle ranch, and then they converted it into spaces for family reunions and corporate retreats. So it was very new to hosting yoga retreats. So that meant I had way more legwork from planning transportation from the airport, which was 90 minutes from Bozeman. We were actually in near Yellowstone, Paradise Valley and planning every single vendor that came in to lead activities. So it was a lot of work, a lot of logistics.

Jenna Morris 00:12:30  And this time, coming up in April, I have a retreat in Bali. I decided to use a retreat planner. She's based in Bali. I know nothing about that culture or language or customs visas. So when I got a little bit beyond, you know, Mexico's international, but not as much as Bali. So when I got into that land, I was like, all right, I need a little bit of help here. And so I've done it a variety of ways. But yeah typically sourcing out is it financially reasonable. What are the add on costs. What can I tack on to make per person. And does that then wind up being a cost that I think my consumer would purchase?

Joe Sanok 00:13:10  Now. So as you're kind of visioning that all out, you're looking at your costs, all those sorts of things. at this point, what's the main driver of people purchasing?

Jenna Morris 00:13:22  Well, I don't know if you're all your listeners know that we live in Traverse City, Michigan, in the Midwest, but a lot of my following is here in the Midwest.

Jenna Morris 00:13:32  I lived in Chicago 15 years, and I've lived here in Traverse City and grew up in Michigan. so the driver for many people is the experience and the time. So I don't have as broad of a following right now where people would sign up from all over the world. I hope one day I will, where I can host many retreats in a year. But right now, I think the driver is that, you know, can I get away in the winter? Selling one in the summer, to be honest, was difficult. People don't want to leave the Midwest in the summer. So Montana took a little extra coaxing. but yeah. So I think the driver is experience, and a lot of people have a personal tie to me, so they are my students. Even though I have had some random sign ups, it's usually the location or the people.

Joe Sanok 00:14:18  I think I think that's smart to think through because so many of our listeners, you know, are really good at something therapeutic. So say they're great with couple's work and they're like, I want to host a couples retreat.

Joe Sanok 00:14:30  And then they spend all this time trying to build up an Instagram or a TikTok to get 100 followers or 500 followers, or they're on all these podcasts and then they launch their tickets to their their retreat. They say their couples retreat and they sell 2 or 3, versus saying you already have a whole practice and other clinicians in town. That could kind of be those beta testers for you to work out the kinks, for you to be able to just use your own network to first kind of see what people resonate with. and to me, I think that's so smart to start with your own network. what have you learned from from starting there?

Jenna Morris 00:15:10  I'm learning, and this is something I learned in Marie Forleo B school, the importance of the email list and growing people's attraction to what you're offering in different ways. So on my website, I have a free offering so people can get a taste test of my teaching style before committing to purchasing something. Certainly before committing to buying a, you know, several thousand dollar trip with me, then I have a small paid offering where people can purchase a an on demand retreat, which is a gift to some of your listeners should they wish to partake.

Jenna Morris 00:15:45  And then I have the bigger offering. So I guess while the value of starting with my own network first was great, and that's where I'm getting most of my signups. I'm learning that I do need to expand from there in different ways, and that is the challenge. And when I first launched my like a free digital offering, I created this little video series on am I doing this right in the yoga pose world? I thought I was going to get like hundreds of new email subscribers. I think I got three. So the reality of these things take time to grow. And I guess that goes back to our beginning point of it worked enough. If we want something to work, it's not going to be an overnight success, typically. And we live in this world of instant gratification, right? We want everything to happen and happen now. But I think staying committed, using your network and using people in a different way, like you mentioned, your private practice. You know, listeners, they have other private practice people.

Jenna Morris 00:16:56  So in my world, in the yoga world, I offered to other gyms, other studios, other teachers a percentage of profit if they helped me make a sale. So trying to utilize them to get ticket sales was also a huge help and driver. And me having the courage to do this when I knew I had a little extra support behind me.

Joe Sanok 00:17:19  Yeah, yeah, I think having those partnerships is so key. you know, to get those initial people, I know that for me, having kind of like a minimum number and to try to fill that before it even goes public. So to have people have purchased tickets ahead of time, you know, with, you know, say my consulting clients. one thing that with slowdown School, when we hosted that for a number of years that I worked with Jamie Masters, who has the eventual millionaire podcast, I know she also bought the domain, eventual billionaire. So, but she's like this amazing consultant. it's helped tons of podcast types of people launch and grow.

Joe Sanok 00:17:56  And she for me, that first year slow down school took so much effort to try to get people to buy same sort of thing. I thought as soon as we open doors like, this is going to be amazing. Had this whole podcast series that had, just like heavy hitters in it that were just some of my, like biggest, ideal kind of guests. And then I sold one ticket and I was like, are you kidding me? There's like 12 spots, this one ticket. And, you know, Doctor Jeremy Sharp, who was one of my consulting clients, and later he was like, I wondered why my testimonial was on everything. And I'm like, because you were the only one that bought a ticket. So, so I worked with her and, and I was like, what do I need to do here? And sometimes you just need that person outside. And I'm like, well, when she asked me when people have bought higher ticket items from you because it was like 3 or 4 grand for this week long retreat.

Joe Sanok 00:18:51  And, you know, that was ten years ago. so that was, you know, even, I guess, more money with inflation back then. so I said, you know, when really it's, you know, consulting is the only thing that kind of competes with that. And it's always a phone call. And she just was like, why don't you send an email that says, do you want to do a phone call to see if slowdown school's a fit? And I sent a scheduling link, and honestly, overnight I had 20 people that wanted to do phone calls with me. And it was just this one thing that was like, oh, this thing that worked. and then she taught me well, and then just include the The Slowdown school in bigger consulting packages. Just make sure you have all your costs included in that. and then the next year, we went from 12 people to I think we had 38 people the next year. so just those little things where it's like, oh, yeah, just include it in something.

Joe Sanok 00:19:37  So it may be for some of the listeners that a retreat is included with your higher end, you know, marriage counseling types of things. Or if you had like a VIP yoga type of wellness that you just include a retreat once a year? It's never too early to start thinking about tax season. That's why I've partnered with my friends over at herd. Herd serves as the financial back office built specifically for therapists and private practice during all in one financial solution that combines software with human support to handle bookkeeping, taxes, payroll, and more. Regardless of whether you're a seasoned clinician or in your first year of your practice, herd will identify growth areas and streamline best financial practices for your business when you sign up with herd. You'll connect your bank accounts so your transactions will be automatically pulled in and categorized. My favorite thing about herd is their allocation guide, which helps you decide how much to pay yourself each month and how much to set aside for taxes. You'll also receive financial insights such as profit and loss statements and monthly reports.

Joe Sanok 00:20:54  You can say goodbye to poring over spreadsheets and guessing your tax deductions or quarterly payments. Focus on your clients and heard will take care of the rest. Sign up for a free consultation today at Join heard. Com forward slash Joe and get one month free with promo code Joe. Again that's join heard.com/joe. When you vision out Jenna kind of where you're headed. how do you think through the next place you're going to go. Is it literally it gets cold in Northern Michigan. I want to go someplace warm. Or is it like people are asking to go to Bali? Or, like, how do you decide the next steps?

Jenna Morris 00:21:36  Definitely picking people's brains on the current retreats. So when I said Bali and just floated it out there back in Mexico, I had a few people say, oh my gosh, let me know when that's happening. Knowing that yoga practitioners have I don't know if you know this, Bali is like a yoga destination. So trying to bucket list places that people might be less willing to go to on their own, but also interesting to go to, an interesting place to practice, and going in tandem with what my retreats have been, which is a blend and a balance of activity, downtime, culture, food, yoga.

Jenna Morris 00:22:24  So with that, I've been thinking yoga and food are my big things in life or my favorite things. And so I've been thinking more about, well, how can I blend more of these together? Because I do seem to attract people that are similar. And I also attract people who are single and childless. So knowing that to age, like my friend Jenny who leads retreats, she has a lot of retirees that are. you know, fairly wealthy on the North Shore of Chicago. That's just her clientele. She might choose something totally different based on that. So my next thought is Portugal or Italy, where we can do something that has, food and cooking involved and yoga. Now I know some retreat leaders. They'll go to the same location every single year. And I think there's something to be said for consistency. And some travelers are that way. But in my mind, I want to keep offering unique experiences that people are going to say, oh my gosh, I have to go do that with Jenna.

Jenna Morris 00:23:22  And I know she's only going to do it one time, so there's a little more urgency around it.

Joe Sanok 00:23:27  Yeah. Now when you think about the actual you're in the retreat you're there, you're in Bali. what are the things that help you stay organized or kind of maybe preventative things that we can say to people before you do a retreat. Make sure you think through these kind of things Like, I guess I'm thinking logistical things. I'm thinking, how do you build that emotional safety, that community? Are there tactics or approaches that you're using? And then I'd also like to talk about kind of follow up afterwards after you've created this community.

Jenna Morris 00:24:01  Yes, I do a lot of communication with the group before we leave. So letting them know things they need to think through in preparation. I learned based on nearly missing my connecting flight heading out to Montana, that I need to go early as a retreat goer or pardon me as the retreat leader. duh, that seems very obvious, but it wasn't until I had the experience that I thought, okay, that's going to change in the future.

Jenna Morris 00:24:30  Yeah. preparing my plans and then preparing their plans. And typically what I've done so far is also building in some buffer time after the retreat so that I can process, I can enjoy the space that I'm in, and I can experience it in a different way. but going back to the organization for the retreat goers, the participants I have a WhatsApp group I create for them. I have a really lovely welcome packet that I create with different goodies that are connected to the theme of the retreat, so I try to have some sort of theme every time that I host one. And then upon arrival, just making sure I'm connected with whoever the point person is for the property so that I can let them know, like, hey, do, can, can I get you to set up this room by this time? So I just know how to contact them and feel organized in that way. And then having I'm an introvert and I know that I need space, so I will sometimes set the ground rules of, you know, at the beginning of the retreat, letting people know that it's their experience.

Jenna Morris 00:25:37  And I want them, if they're an introvert like me, to feel like they can skip something, they can stay in their their accommodations, they can join everything or they cannot. So just trying to set a tone for yes, we're all here together, but this is also your time. So what do you need out of this? And then letting them know that I share some personal stories too. Like I need space. Sometimes I need to go sit and stare at the wall for an hour at the end of the day, so that they understand that too. As the facilitator.

Joe Sanok 00:26:11  Yeah, I love that.

Joe Sanok 00:26:13  and I think that it sets the expectations. It sets the, kind of DNA of that, that community. yeah. It's slow down school. We did the same sort of thing where, ahead of time, we talked through. Here's how you can, you know, set it up so you can actually disconnect for a week when you own a big practice and, you know, everyone changed their voice voicemail to say, I'm not checking my voicemail this week.

Joe Sanok 00:26:37  If this is an urgent care mental health emergency, here's Joe's phone number. Over the five years we hosted it, I never got a single phone call, but for them to even just know that they could tell their team. Joel find me. But I'm going to be completely unplugged for a week. Then allowed them to show up way differently than if they had to keep checking their phone every few hours to see if there's something going on back at the office. when you think about follow up, or, you know, after these retreats, do you have any sort of follow up? Do you have any sort of way to keep everyone connected? I know sometimes there's organic WhatsApp conversations to keep going or things like that, but anything that you directly facilitate afterwards.

Jenna Morris 00:27:19  Yes. And this is something that I took from Marie Forleo to of make your client feel so special and go above and beyond. So what are the ways that you can do that? So I always send a handwritten note. First off, in the arrival I do a handwritten note and if I know the person, I'll make it as personal as I can.

Jenna Morris 00:27:41  If I don't know the person, I'll acknowledge, like, my gosh, you put such trust in me to show up here with your time and your money and your energy. Thank you. And then after I will, I try to take a lot of group photos or photos of other people with permission throughout the course of the retreat. So I will print some of those off and send a handwritten thank you note to them after. And then yes, we definitely keep up with the WhatsApp group. And then for those who are locals, will do.

Jenna Morris 00:28:07  A.

Jenna Morris 00:28:08  Little reunion get togethers. like the Montana one. I thought, oh, would be fun to go to this place. For those that don't know the hayloft in Traverse City, it's a.

Joe Sanok 00:28:17  Little in the hayloft.

Jenna Morris 00:28:20  I thought that'd be fun for Montana people. for my Mexico people. We've continued to stay in touch. Here. We go to the sauna together. We go to different events together. So it really has created community after the fact.

Jenna Morris 00:28:34  And then for those who are in Chicago, I hear that they still get together with one another. So I think just putting a little extra effort and also the re-entry after a retreat can be so tough, so I'll make sure to do check ins with them, send them some new journal prompts. just take here from them what they're doing to keep that feeling from the retreat alive in their everyday life.

Joe Sanok 00:28:59  I love that. You know, even right, as you were saying that, I'm like, okay, how can we do that for our consulting clients? We've every, like at the end of the year sent our consulting clients and our sponsors a nice big grocer's daughter chocolate, like welcome package or like, end of year package. And we had them make these little, chocolate coin molds with our logo on it. and people love getting this chocolate, but I'm like, you know what? Maybe that's something that earlier in the process, like, right, when they sign up, they get this kind of welcome kind of thing that comes to them.

Joe Sanok 00:29:32  you know, for 50 or $75 for someone that's dropping six grand, like, that's nothing. so that that idea like right away, I put that as something for me and Jen to discuss, like in our next, team meeting.

Jenna Morris 00:29:44  Yeah.

Jenna Morris 00:29:45  That's great.

Joe Sanok 00:29:47  Well, Jenna, the last question that I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Jenna Morris 00:29:54  My favorite slogan in life is from Nike. Just do it. I think it applies to everything in life. I was so fear stricken for so long about embarking on this brand, these retreats. No one's going to sign up. How am I going to make money? How am I going to do it? How how how how how? Instead of focusing on my why behind it and then after having these experiences that were so fulfilling and so inspiring, I thought, gosh, I should have done this sooner. Like years ago, I've been teaching yoga 17 years. It took me that long to host a retreat.

Jenna Morris 00:30:32  So I would say if there's something that you want to change in your practice, if you want to lead retreats, if you want to facilitate something, just do it. Know that it might not be your ideal end vision right out of the gate. But if you start now. I love that you shared that story, Joe, where you were like all excited and you sold one ticket. Gosh, that's so relatable. That's that phrase. You know, people see the glory but don't know. The story rings so true to me. So yeah, ultimately, I'd say best advice is if you have a dream, you have a vision, just do it.

Joe Sanok 00:31:06  I love it, Jenna. I know you had some free stuff for the audience and you have retreats coming up. Where should we send them if they want to read more about you?

Jenna Morris 00:31:14  Yes. You can head to be well with jenna.com. And I do send call notes out. I can send you a promo code for my on demand petite retreat.

Joe Sanok 00:31:26  So awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the practice of the Practice podcast.

Jenna Morris 00:31:31  Thank you.

Jenna Morris 00:31:32  Joe. And.

Joe Sanok 00:31:40  You know, I think that it's really interesting to see a shift that's been happening over the last 6 to 12 months, where more and more clinicians, I think, are standing in the knowledge that they have. I think for a long time in social media, there was such a fearful approach to how clinicians were thinking, where they were worried about self-disclosure, they were worried about ethical dilemmas. And if people reached out on social media, did that, was that considered therapy? And I think we've got through a lot of that and have, you know, really solid best practices and things that you should and shouldn't do. it's been really cool to see a number of people from our audience, you know, asking questions around, like, how do I develop more of an audience? How do I develop a podcast? How do I just share more of my therapeutic knowledge and offer retreats and things like that? and we just love, getting people together, to talk through, like, what's next in the therapy world? We want to be on the cutting edge with you.

Joe Sanok 00:32:39  to be able to do that. That's why we do this show Five days a week or wherever we're at right now, is to have these interesting conversations, to dream bigger as to what the therapy world could look like. if you're looking for community, in May here in Traverse City, we have the group practice boss conference. At the time of this recording, we haven't opened up tickets yet. I hope that by mentioning this now in December, that they're not sold out already. I mean, I do hope they're sold out, but for your sake, if you haven't bought your ticket yet, go check out, see if they're sold out yet over at practice of the practice.com/conference. you can read all about that. That's May 6th and seventh here in Traverse City, Michigan, where group practice owners and aspiring group practice owners are getting together for this amazing event. and, you know, we couldn't do this show without our sponsors. it's never too early to start thinking about the tax season. And that's why I've partnered with my friends over at heard.

Joe Sanok 00:33:32  Heard serves as the financial back office built specifically for therapists in private practice. you know, there's so many reasons to work with an accountant. They go through tons of schooling, grueling exams, just like we do in therapy. And you shouldn't be expected to know the things that they've spent years learning. Heard is my go to referral for therapists that need bookkeeping and tax prep. Please make sure you reach out to them by the end of the year so that you can get all set up for the tax season. Head on over to join hardcore com slash Joe, and you'll get a free consultation, as well as a first free month with promo code Joe at checkout. Again, that's join.com slash. Joe, thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band silence sexy for that intro music. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information.

Joe Sanok 00:34:35  If you want a professional, you should find one.