[ALISON PIDGEON]:
This is the Practice of the Practice podcast, episode number 601.
[ALISON]:
Hi, I’m Alison Pidgeon. I’m your host today, doing a podcast takeover. So that is why you’re not hearing Joe’s voice. I am featuring an interview today with Dr. Carita Anderson. She is a Licensed Psychologist from the Boston, Massachusetts area. She has a group practice now, called the Boston Center for Couples and Sexuality. She specializes in sex therapy and couples. She also is trained in brainspotting, EMDR, internal family systems, and lots of other techniques. And she is one of the participants in our very first Group Practice Launch membership group. We launched back in March of 2021, and the group is just wrapping up now. She knew she wanted to turn her solo practice into a group practice and so she joined our group for that reason, so she could learn how to do that. Carita talks about her experiences as part of the group and what she learned and how it helped her. So I hope you enjoy this interview with Dr. Carita Anderson.
[ALISON]:
Hi, Carita. Welcome to the podcast.
[DR. CARITA ANDERSON]:
Hi Alison. Thank you for having me.
[ALISON]:
Yes. Thank you so much for taking the time. Before we jump into our discussion today, can you give our audience a little overview about yourself and your practice?
[DR. CARITA]:
Absolutely. So I’m a Licensed Psychologist in the Boston, Massachusetts area. Specifically, my office is in Arlington and I have a specialty in sex therapy and sexuality and couples treatment. However, I do lots and lots of individual work with any range of issues, grief, job transition, communication skills, family dynamics, those kind of things.
[ALISON]:
Nice. And you joined our membership community called Group Practice Launch this past March of 2021, because you wanted to start a group practice and it’s been great getting to know you through the group. Just curious, what was your kind of reasoning behind wanting to start the group practice?
[DR. CARITA]:
So I think I’ve always thought about having a training program since I was in graduate school, I had a really, really good experience with my own training. So I kind of wanted a multidisciplinary, optimally, a multidisciplinary group practice, but certainly one with multiple clinicians where we could support each other and have consultation with each other and also the social support in addition to the professional support.
[ALISON]:
Nice. And I’m sure too, there’s probably not a lot of practitioners in your area that have the same specialty. So there was kind of a lack of those providers?
[DR. CARITA]:
So relatively in general, there aren’t a lot of sex therapists. I’m also African American and so there aren’t a lot of therapists of color. However, in Boston, there are more sex therapists than most places.
[ALISON]:
Oh, interesting.
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes, just because it’s an urban kind of an academic center. But still not that many, so yes. And then couples therapists, like people who actually really know how to do couples therapy, there aren’t as many as you would imagine.
[ALISON]:
Yes. I find that to be true. So you’re kind of at this point where you’re realizing like you have this passion for creating this group practice and having other people that you can train and mold into great therapists and then kind of, what was your next thought about how you were actually going to do it? What did you do next? Did you like go on Google? Did you talk to a friend?
[DR. CARITA]:
So I opened my private practice probably about 10 years ago after taking a break to, I finished my postdoc in maybe 2004 and then moved and I had a good eight years maybe raising children and then started my independent practice. I’d been thinking about it. I had a group, I had a business coach, I started in a group coaching, a business coaching group about eight or 10 years ago and so I’ve always been thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it. The pandemic starting up actually kind of allowed me this space to really say, you know what, I’m not getting any younger. Let’s do this.
[ALISON]:
It’s so interesting. I feel like the pandemic like really clarified for a lot of people, what they really wanted out of life and spurred them on to do it
[DR. CARITA]:
Indeed. So what it allowed me to do was not have to pick up and drop off my kids.
[ALISON]:
You got so much time back in your week, right?
[DR. CARITA]:
I got a lot of time back in my week and I could go to my off office early and stay later because I had been starting, I had to start after drop off and then go pick up. So I stopped doing evening appointments. So when the pandemic hit, I was still in my one room office and the space in my building, another space opened up that had been rented out to another practice, but they figured out that they couldn’t, they were like, well, we can’t do this. We can’t keep doing this. So my landlord reached out and I was like, “I think I want to do this”.

So I took the leap and he believed in me and I said, he’s like, “What are you trying to do?” I said, “I’m trying to have a group practice where people of color and white people, clinicians can learn how to do therapy with anti-oppressive practices where people can come and have their whole selves welcome.” So the space is beautiful and it’s in the same building and the same location and it was quite serendipitous. It was my grandmother’s birthday that I got my group practice credential with Blue Cross. All these things kind of happened the month of June. So this was, I made the move to a suite about a year ago.
[ALISON]:
That’s amazing. So it’s like, all those things kind of lined up.
[DR. CARITA]:
All those things lined up.
[ALISON]:
Yes. Cool. So obviously you saw the Group Practice Launch program starting. What was appealing about it to you? What made you decide that was something you wanted to do?
[DR. CARITA]:
So I’d been listening to Joe’s podcast and I’d heard you and Whitney doing different podcasts. So I reached out actually for a consultation and I think I spoke with Whitney for like eight minutes and she gave me all these things like, bam, bam, bam, bam, like all these things to do immediately. I was like, ‘Oh my gosh, that’s amazing. Like, if she can do that in eight minutes, imagine what I could get out of like joining the group.” So at the time that I was originally looking at it, you only had Group Practice Boss. I was like, “I’m not there yet.” So I decided to, and then you opened up for March. I was like, “Oh, this is great opportunity. This is good timing. I’ve been trying to do this on my own for months.” I’d put feelers out for interviewing applicants. It just, I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t like shoot the trigger. So joining the group, I was like, if I can’t do this with this support, then I just need to like call it a day.
[ALISON]:
So for you, it was like accountability and also —
[DR. CARITA]:
Accountability, Alison is huge.
[ALISON]:
Yes, and you’re learning the shortcuts. I think that’s one of the biggest reasons.
[DR. CARITA]:
I’m learning. There’s so many resources that Group Practice Launch offers from the paperwork examples to the examples of systems to use and technology, experience with different technologies. The resources are just so rich.
[ALISON]:
Oh, good. I’m glad that you found it helpful. So just to kind of give the audience a little bit of an overview, so we spend six months with our Group Practice Launch folks kind of leading them through like the step by step from the beginning to, by the end, they should have hired a couple, well, not a couple, at least one person —
[DR. CARITA]:
Although Whitney always says, if you’re going to hire, hire two at a time.
[ALISON]:
Hire two at once. So that’s what you did?
[DR. CARITA]:
That’s what I did.
[ALISON]:
So tell us a little bit about like you joined the group and then what have you, so the group isn’t even over yet because we’re recording this ahead of time. We still have a whole nother like month and a half to go, but maybe tell us about everything that you’ve done so far during the course of the group.
[DR. CARITA]:
So I have, first of all, just the meeting every week is super helpful. It keeps the momentum going and kind of keeps my eye on the ball. That’s super helpful. I had again, I had put out an ad a couple of maybe three different times and interviewed people a little bit and then like not done anything. So doing the ad again, calling people back, doing interviews, I’ve hired two people, two pre-licensed people, clinicians.
[ALISON]:
That’s amazing.
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes, it is amazing because we really did take, I mean, it just taken me a year. It took an entire 12 months since from the time I moved into this suite. So I hired them. I have started using Spruce. I’m still figuring out all these systems; Spruce, which is a phone communication, text system for patients and clinicians to keep in touch. Still figuring that one out. But it’s great. The being upfront with the staff, building the relationship with the staff, using the, thinking about the marketing with the website, fortunately that was one of the things that I was able to do; is get a website. It’s not exactly as I want it to be, but it’s a beautiful, lovely a website that functions well enough right now.
[ALISON]:
Great. So it sounds like you changed some of your systems, you kind of revamped some marketing strategies. You finally pulled the trigger on hiring people and they’ve started?
[DR. CARITA]:
That was the biggest thing, pull the trigger on the hiring.
[ALISON]:
Yes. That’s always the, it’s interesting because I’ve led groups of people through this process many, many times now and every time we get to the part where it’s like, okay, now you can all start hiring people, they look at me like I just ask them to jump off a cliff.
[DR. CARITA]:
Indeed, because it does. That’s what it feels like.
[ALISON]:
Yes. It’s like that deer, the headlights. I’m like, ”No, really you you’re ready. You can do this now.” So yes, I think that, I’m curious too, because I know you said you tried to hire before and it never really worked out. Was it just, you weren’t confident in what you were doing or you were afraid or why do you think it never worked before?
[DR. CARITA]:
There was a big, the fear factor is huge and the worry, not knowing what it looked like. So one issue for me was the initial few advertisements for a part-time person because I thought, well, I don’t want to start offering health insurance because I I need to really have some capital for that. So I need somebody who’s part-time and maybe they have a partner who has health insurance or they have a full-time job or something. But the people who were, and in fact, I did hire from the beginning. I did hire one person who exactly is that. She has a full-time job. She is fully licensed. I credentialed her through Blue Cross and she took four patients, but that’s all she could take. So that’s it.
[ALISON]:
Which we talk about in the group. It doesn’t really make sense because —
[DR. CARITA]:
It doesn’t make sense.
[ALISON]:
That’s not enough.
[DR. CARITA]:
It’s only helpful because she allowed me time to practice some of the systems and she was patient and very, very forgiving.
[ALISON]:
But seeing four patients a week isn’t going to make a huge difference to you in terms of revenue.
[DR. CARITA]:
No. So then I had to figure out the part-time thing is not attracting the right people, so let me put out a full-time thing and the last one I put out was right at the time that people who were finishing up programs were looking for jobs and I got a lot of really great applicants and I was too afraid to pull the trigger. I just said, “Wow, look at all these great applicants.” I printed their resumes out and I was like, “Oh wow, look.” And then I just couldn’t sit down and do it.
[ALISON]:
So what was the difference then being in the group? Did you just feel more confident that you knew what you were doing?
[DR. CARITA]:
Part of it was I’ve paid for this group, for this program. I’ve had these resources here. What’s the worst thing that would happen? The three months of, what do you call it, provisional employment or the —
[ALISON]:
Right, the probationary period.
[DR. CARITA]:
Probationary period. That was a game changer, because I thought yes, when we talked about that, I was like, if it doesn’t work after three months, okay, then I’ve learned a lot. I will have made a lot of mistakes and learned a lot and I’ll know better next time. And it’s not like a do or die. This is an ongoing thing. People change, people will leave. I’ll hire new people. It just like, just do it.
[ALISON]:
Right? Yes. I think that’s a great way of looking at it.
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[ALISON]:
So I know we talked about kind of a little bit of the format of the group and what’s available to you and the accountability. I’m curious what your experience has been like to be in a group of other people who are going through really the exact same thing you’re going through. At the same time how has that been for you in terms of are you learning from other members of the group as well as from me and Whitney?
[DR. CARITA]:
Absolutely. It’s interesting, my first, the business coaching group that I was in eight years ago, we were all doing different things and all working on our vision, et cetera. And it was super helpful. However, with this we’re all working on the same thing and can make use of all these systems and the process and the questions you have to ask and those kind of things. So that’s super helpful. One thing that I have noticed, or that has been important for me, and that has become apparent in the group process is the difference in abundance mindset versus scarcity mindset. And that covers a wide range of things. But one of the most more important things is that will I have enough clients? And it’s like, particularly in the pandemic. We’re all turning away, people left and right.
New Speaker:
I took down my Psychology Today profile cause I couldn’t do it anymore. I put it back up, I got like five calls that day. There’s always enough patients. And then the worrying about competing with other therapists, it’s like, there can never be enough therapists. We don’t have enough therapists. And then thinking about the tolerating uncertainty that you have to do as a business owner, period, and in life in general. So that balance between being prepared enough, you can’t be prepared for everything. However, there are a lot of things you can put it into place to support and then you just have to manage it as it comes. So that’s something we keep talking about, that keeps coming up and keeps coming up. So I have to decide where’s my comfort level. I can’t tell somebody else really, which I like to do, it’s like, dude, you just got to calm down and just do it. I mean, I can’t until somebody’s ready to do that. So for me, deciding how much uncertainty I’m willing to tolerate is something that comes up every week.
[ALISON]:
I’m really glad that you brought that up because I think that’s one of the cool things about the group. You learn just as much about yourself and the other people in the group and you learn from the facilitators and yes, it’s so interesting to see how different people are reacting to being in very similar situations and like their attitude in their mindset really does affect a lot of the progress that they make. Some people just get scared and they get stuck and then they come every week saying I’m stuck, I’m stuck. And it’s like, okay, well, what’s really happening here that you aren’t making progress? Usually it’s a mindset issue.
[DR. CARITA]:
It’s very often a mindset issue.
[ALISON]:
Yes. I mean, that’s what, in all of my experiences working with different people, that’s what I’ve found because a lot of times people ask me before they sign up for a program, like what’s your kind of success rate? I tell people, if you do the steps your success rate is going to be fantastic and if you get stuck because you’re scared, that’s really the biggest reason why I’ve seen people not be successful. Because they get scared, they get stuck and they don’t follow through with the steps of the plan.
[DR. CARITA]:
Right. Exactly. It’s kind of like, it’s not rocket science.
[ALISON]:
Right. It is a lot of steps though.
[DR. CARITA]:
It’s a lot of steps, but it’s not rocket science though. You make some decisions here and there and you try one thing and if that doesn’t work, you backtrack and try the other one.
[ALISON]:
Yep. And that’s the whole piece of being an entrepreneur. There’s not, I mean, for as much as we like to lead people through the process, there’s still not a one-size-fits-all and you have to kind of try things and they may or may not work and then you have to try something else.
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes, you do have to.
[ALISON]:
Yes. So I know you recently hired two people and they just started.
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes. They just finished their second week.
[ALISON]:
So how is it going so far?
[DR. CARITA]:
So I think, and they think it’s gone quite well. So what I said in the beginning was that my initial desire in having a group practice was really as a training place, the center. I really, I do, I think there are a lot of crappy therapists out there, honestly, and my goal is to really put good therapists out in the world. So I am interested in, it’s important to me to really put a lot into my therapists. So I’m offering them lots of clinical material to watch, to think about, to read in addition to beginning to learn the systems. And it’s going well. I’m learning about them, they’re learning about me, they’re showing the things that they’re worried about and we’re talking about those things. One of them has three patients already, two sessions this week. The other one has two sessions, two patients that will start next week and I have a bunch of calls to return already.
[ALISON]:
Wow. That’s great.
[DR. CARITA]:
For new people.
[ALISON]:
So how does it feel all to kind of step into your role of being the boss?
[DR. CARITA]:
It feels good, actually. I will have a lot to celebrate when I push the button on running the first payroll.
[ALISON]:
Yes.
[DR. CARITA]:
I will have a lot to celebrate there.
[ALISON]:
Good, good. Yes, I feel like that’s the other thing that people get kind of freaked out about. It’s the idea —
[DR. CARITA]:
People are freaked out about.
[ALISON]:
They’re going to be the boss and now you’re responsible. Like you said, you’re running payroll. Now you’re responsible for paying these people potentially, all the money that they’re making if they’re working full time. It can be intimidating.
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes. I like teaching and supervising, so that’s a good thing. And they are open to it, which is also really good. There’s the balance between having a fully trained, licensed person who has like experience under their belt. They will already have a way to do things and there’s, so dealing with that versus shaping somebody and trying to make sure they’re getting off on the right foot early on. And self-care is something we talk about a lot. I really don’t want, I’m not interested in this being an experience like starting at a community health center where you are —
[ALISON]:
Working to death.
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes, exactly.
[ALISON]:
That’s awesome. I think that’s the other beautiful thing about starting a group practice. It’s like, I know for me, one of my main reasons and passions when I started is I wanted to create a place where I wanted to work when I was a clinician where you feel valued and respected and all of that. So I feel it’s very gratifying to see people create other great places to work for therapists, because I think we don’t have enough of those.
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes, and so like for me sitting, when I moved into the office suite, I set up a break room with a big screen TV on the wall. I was envisioning sitting down with the team and watching clinical material, watching videos, doing trainings together, that kind of thing. And that’s happened. That’s like happening.
[ALISON]:
Oh nice. And I think you were going to tell me, you all end up just watching Netflix or something.
[DR. CARITA]:
Although I did tell them to watch, there’s a show on, I don’t know what it is, maybe show time called Couples Therapy. It’s a reality show for couples. It is actually really good. It’s real couples. It’s a real therapist. She has a real supervisor and she’s good. So they have actually sat down and watched that.
[ALISON]:
Oh, nice. Okay. I’ll have to check that out. So Carita, what’s your plan in like the month and a half we have left in the group? What are you hoping to accomplish?
[DR. CARITA]:
In the month and a half we have left, my goal by that is to be fully invested in my electronic health records system and have both of them be fully invested. By invested, I mean everybody’s in the system, all the patients are in the system, we’re running everything through that, have that totally up and running, to have the Spruce, the telephone and texting thing totally up and running, to have payroll be smooth and regular. And to have, actually it would be super helpful to hire an assistant.
[ALISON]:
I was going to say it. You need one of those.
[DR. CARITA]:
I do, I do. I do, I need one of those and they are hard to come by. They are hard to come by these days. So to have the intake process, so to have those, if I had that stuff in the next six weeks, I would consider myself to have accomplished a great deal.
[ALISON]:
Yes, for sure. You actually have already gotten further than we expect people to, because really what we hope is that you hire one person by the time you’re done and we’re not even done and you’ve already hired two people. So that’s fantastic. Yes, and I think that speaks to what we were talking before about mindset and I think you just decided like I’m doing this.
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes, I know.
[ALISON]:
I really appreciate your energy in the group because I feel like you are always cheering other people on and trying to encourage them and —
[DR. CARITA]:
Yes, absolutely. That’s the whole goal. Like there’s the abundance mindset. We can all, just let’s do it people.
[ALISON]:
Yes, and you just totally call it like it is, which I love.
[DR. CARITA]:
Oh, thank you for that. Because not everybody’s up for that.
[ALISON]:
Uh-huh.
[DR. CARITA]:
Not everybody’s up for that.
[ALISON]:
Yes, I could tell some of the people are like, “Oh, well Carita just says what’s on her mind. Wow.” Well, Carita, it’s been great talking with you today. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us about building your group practice and how Group Practice Launch has helped you. And maybe you could share with us your practice website if people want to check it out.
[DR. CARITA]:
Oh yes. It’s www.bostoncenterforcouples.net.
[ALISON]:
Nice. That’s a great name.
[DR. CARITA]:
So my group practice is called Boston Center for Couples and Sexuality.
[ALISON]:
Nice. Perfect. Well Carita, thank you so much.
[DR. CARITA]:
And thank you. You guys have, the program is well thought of, well thought out, well considered, well resourced and really you have all the pieces there for us to be successful, so including a very welcoming demeanor from both you and Whitney; both very welcoming and open for questions, patience. You guys get some of the same questions over and over and over again and you never show any like, “Oh we got to get out of here.” Always very patient. And also just kind of matter of fact, like, “You guys can do this. This is what I’ve done. These are the mistakes I’ve made. This is what’s worked for me. You try it. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s fine, but this is, it’s here. It’s available.” So thank you so much.
[ALISON]:
No, I appreciate that. Thank you.
[JOE SANOK]:
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[ALISON]:
If you are thinking about starting a group practice, but you just don’t know where to start, please join our second cohort of Group Practice Launch. It’s a membership community, the one that Carita was talking about in the interview where we help walk you through step by step, how to start a group practice. So by the end of the group, we hope that you have developed a really solid foundation for the group practice and you’ve also hired at least one person. Some people actually hire more than one person by the end of the six months, but that is our goal for you. And if you need somebody to kind of show you the shortcuts and teach you all the tricks of the trade, so to speak, definitely consider joining that group. It is launching very soon at the beginning of September, and you can check out all of the details at practiceofthepractice.com/grouppracticelaunch.
New Speaker:
Thanks so much for listening to this podcast take-over today with me, Alison Pidgeon. I always enjoy coming on the podcast and hopefully I will talk to you all soon.
[JOE SANOK]:
Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We really like it. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.