How I got through my son’s seizure and daughter’s sexual assault with Kate Pieper | POP 737

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A photo of Kate Pieper is captured. Kate Pieper is a Marriage and Family Therapist specializing in trauma and PTSD. Kate Pieper is featured on Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

How do you take care of yourself when members of your family are constantly sick? What does it take to maintain a strong marriage when your children have suffered? Which mindsets empower you to keep moving forward when life seems out of control?

In the second episode of the How I Got Through It series, Joe Sanok speaks with Kate Pieper about her son’s seizure and daughter’s sexual assault.

Podcast Sponsor: BiOptimizers

An image of the Practice of the Practice podcast sponsor, BiOptimizers, is captured. BiOptimizers is a magnesium supplement for reducing stress and improving sleep.


Did you know that there is ONE PHASE OF SLEEP that almost everyone fails to get enough of? This one phase of sleep is responsible for most of your body’s daily rejuvenation, repair, controlling hunger, weight loss hormones, and boosting energy. I’m talking about “deep sleep”…

If you don’t get enough deep sleep, you’ll probably always struggle with cravings, slow metabolism, premature aging or even worse conditions.

A BIG reason why most people don’t get enough “deep sleep” is because of magnesium deficiency which affects over 80% of the population. Magnesium increases GABA, which encourages relaxation on a cellular level, which is critical for sleep.

It’s important to understand that most magnesium products out there are either synthetic or, they only have 1-2 forms of magnesium, when the reality is that your body needs ALL 7 FORMS of this essential sleep mineral.

That’s why I recommend a product my friends over at BiOptimizers created, called Magnesium Breakthrough. Taking this magnesium before bed helps you relax and wake up refreshed and energized.

I also love that BiOptimizers offers FREE SHIPPING on select orders, as well a 365-day money-back guarantee on all their products. Plus, they have a customer satisfaction rating of 99.3%. You can get 10% off Magnesium Breakthrough — the best aid I know of for boosting deep sleep — at  Be sure to use practice10 for 10% off.

Meet Kate Pieper

A photo of Kate Pieper is captured. She is a Marriage and Family Therapist specializing in trauma and PTSD. Kate is featured on the Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

Kate Pieper is a Marriage and Family Therapist specializing in trauma and PTSD. She has many years of experience working with women, men, and teens, and she is trained in evidence-based therapy (Gottman, EMDR, and CISM).

Kate knows that each person has their own unique journey. Life is full of highs and lows – heartaches and joys. Kate enjoys inspiring others to hang on to happiness as they take their own brave, compassionate journey. With her clients, she teaches resiliency skills, allowing them to move beyond trauma and into their unique Brave Compassionate Journey.

Visit Kate Pieper’s website and connect with her on Facebook, Youtube, and LinkedIn.

In this Podcast:

  • Jacobs’s seizures
  • Maintaining a strong marriage
  • “I choose to stay”
  • How Kate got through it

Jacob’s seizures

At a time, when Kate’s son Jacob was two years old, he was having 50 to 100 seizures a day.

Now at 26, he still has seizures and needs to be taken care of, and has to be under supervision almost 24 hours a day.

It really forced us to lean into each other and forced us to understand each other. (Kate Pieper)

Kate, her husband, and her family all had to be straightforward with one another about what they needed and how they could support one another.

Maintaining a strong marriage

Kate and her husband needed to buckle down on their marriage and relationship to be able to help their son while both working and running their lives.

It’s been an effort and it’s been hard work, but I think we’re probably humble enough and foolish enough that it’s all been worth it. We pursue each other as friends and were friends before we got married. (Kate Pieper)

They both know what they are not interested in doing in their lives as individuals, and therefore work at pursuing the things that they want to do – and want from one another – as a couple, together.

“I choose to stay”

I have freedom in the fact that I choose. I don’t feel like a prisoner. I choose to be there for my husband, for my children, and for myself. I don’t have to … I don’t have to do anything, [but] that gives me freedom and that gives me joy … and the freedom to be imperfect. (Kate Pieper)

The way that Kate frames the events of life helps her to feel empowered.

She is careful with her words and uses them wisely to help her feel and be in control of her responses and her actions when life seems to be out of control.

How Kate got through it

Kate studies and practices resiliency and this has helped her get through it:

  • In heated moments, chooses to respond with kindness and chooses to affirm herself wherever possible.
  • Writing in a gratitude journal every morning.
  • Practicing some sort of spiritual grounding.
  • Make sure to get physical exercise often.

Books mentioned in this episode:

Useful Links mentioned in this episode:

Check out these additional resources:

Meet Joe Sanok

A photo of Joe Sanok is displayed. Joe, private practice consultant, offers helpful advice for group practice owners to grow their private practice. His therapist podcast, Practice of the Practice, offers this advice.

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

Thanks For Listening!

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Podcast Transcription

[JOE SANOK] Before we get started on this show, just a quick trigger warning as we go into these shows, want to make sure what’s coming up, we’re going to be talking about kids’ medical trauma, emotional abuse, sexual assault, and cancer on today’s show. So just want to make sure that you’re aware of that before we dive in. This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 737. Well, I’m Joe Sanok, your host, and we have quite a summer series that we’re doing. In the last episode, I told you why, a little bit about my story of what’s happened over the last year and a half or so, and really just inviting people in to talk about how they got through tough things in life. I put out this Google form on Facebook and within 24 hours had probably 40 people that said that they wanted to share their difficult stories and how they got through it. Really my goal for this series, as I said in the last episode is to not have to wrap this up in a nice tidy bow, but to really just hear people’s stories, hear how they got through it and just join them in storytelling around this, and hopefully glean something for myself, but also for you, the audience. So today we have Kate Piper and Kate just want to welcome you to the show. [KATE PIEPER] Hey, thanks, Joe. It’s an honor to be here. I know I watch you from afar and you’re doing great things in the world and it’s an honor to be here and I admire your perseverance already because, oh life is really hard and surprising and shocking sometimes. [JOE] Yes, well give us maybe just the two or three sentence bio of who are you, what do you do professionally, what’s your family look like? Then we’ll have a sense of where our starting point is. [KATE] Well I am a licensed, well, first of all, every morning, pretty much, I say I, Kate Piper am a kind, fun, loving, well balanced wife, mother, friend, therapist. That’s who I am. I work out here in Northern California and I work mainly with first responders. I’m a licensed marriage family therapist and right now, I only take first responders. I do EMDR work and I work with couples who’ve gone through trauma and who are needing to figure it out. Like most of us, my life has become my work. So I feel really authentic when I’m with first responders, because our family’s been through so much. It’s like living a first responder life in our family. I actually, I told one of my clients this week, I said, I want to get a new address signed that says Pipers and our address, welcome to our show. Because I’m usually like, I think I needed a master’s degree to just get through my family and to be able to navigate what all we’ve been through as a family, which has been, it’s been grueling. And we’re still walking through it. So we don’t have, I don’t have a nice tidy bow. I don’t have a bow. [JOE] Okay. [KATE] I sat across from a psychologist one time, so I know we’re both Midwestern, I sat across from a psychologist one time and I was just like sobbing and I’m like, Jeff, my mom lied to me and he is like, okay. I’m like, there are no bootstraps. I have no bootstraps. You pull yourself up by your bootstrap. I don’t have any flipping bootstraps. There aren’t any flipping bootstraps. I just couldn’t figure out going through seizures and going through a marriage, I’ve been married 35 years, we have four kids. I should probably let you stop and ask me questions. So I stay on the road that’s going to be helpful for other people. [JOE] I mean, so I think there’s a couple starting points we could start at you knowing your story. So before we started rolling, you talked about when you were about to leave your husband potentially, that seems like it could be a starting point. Your son’s seizures could be a starting point. So where — [KATE] My daughter’s life flight could be a starting point, falling off of a bunk bed and in a coma for three days, that could be a starting point. [JOE] Yes. So, I mean, why don’t we, because on your application you started with your son’s seizures and then we can always go back in time and forward in time, so we tell us about your son. You said there’s some things that with the IRS you had to report about that, so, tell us about your son and what that story is. [KATE] Jacob was my third child. I have David Heather, well, we like to do things in order in our lives. So there’s Bob, Kate, and then we had David Heather, Jacob, and then Silah is our youngest child. We have four and then we have two grandchildren. Jacob, when he was about a year and a half, he started doing these really funky behaviors like he was walking along and then he would like twitch and we’d see it and we didn’t really think anything of it. Then one time, well, and at that time both of my parents had passed away. My dad died. I grew up in Indiana. Dad died in 91, mom died in 96 so I was young to have three children. My husband was without a job at that time and I was full time supporting the family as an associate intern, so marriage, family therapist, which you know is pretty grueling. So anyway, he kept flapping. We went on vacation to Colorado and I had a chance because I wasn’t working to look at how often he was flapping. We ended up taking him to a neurologist. We had some really bad experiences with a neurologist. We had a pediatric neurologist who actually put her hand on my son’s head at one point and said, well, you can tell that he has a brain tumor because you can feel his forehead. I was just like, oh my word. It ended up that we ended up down in Stanford and Jacob was having 50 to a hundred seizures a day. He was two years old at that time. I remember just being in shock, driving home from Stanford. Stanford’s probably about two and a half hours from where I live and is worth the schlep. Now Jacob’s 26 now so that was 24 years later. Now we’re schlepping down to UCSF, which anybody who’s had serious illness, if you have to travel, Stanford used to ask us for, 16 years, we were schlepping down there and they’d say, are you sure you don’t want to be transferred to somebody up here? I’m no, no, this is worth the schlep. So he actually had thousands of seizures the other day. He actually was hanging out with a friend and we picked him up, because his seizures are out of control again and it’s reached a new level of somebody when they have a seizure, then they have a postictal phase and in the postictal phase they can actually become delusional and have thoughts that don’t make any sense and have behaviors that don’t make any sense. He’s started to do that. It’s been, this last six months have been really pretty overwhelming for all of us. [JOE] So did someone during his childhood have to always be physically with him or how did that work? [KATE] Yes, we had to have baby, like if we let anybody watch him, well, mind you, my daughter had already been in a coma. She had a subdermal hematoma and a subarachnoid hemorrhage. So we were already, when she was two, she fell off of a bunk bed and was in a coma, from a friend’s house, was in a coma for three days. We were already like, nobody can watch Heather unless they know what things to watch for. Then we had Jacob and then he started having seizures and hey, by the way, you can’t watch my son unless you’re willing to do seizure protocol. So even like at church, at that time, we were really plugged into a church and they’re like, you can’t leave your son here unless you are here because we don’t want to be responsible for seizure protocol. So that put a big, I mean that put a big strain on my husband and I, and as I’m thinking about it, I’ve never thought about this, but that really forced us, it really forced us to lean into each other. It forced us to understand each other. Even last night we were talking about the upcoming brain surgery and I asked my 26-year-old Jacob, I asked him, I said, are you scared? He said, yes, yes, I’m scared. My husband and I were talking about like, so we’re going to split up. We have to be with him the whole time in the hospital and we’re going to split that up. For me to say to Bob, hey, look, I can’t do, I did it last year. I did a full week of being in the hospital by Jacob’s bedside while they were videoing his seizures, having him all hooked up and then having him on videotape and doing sleep deprived seizures. So I was staying up all night with him. I’m old and I’m like, I’m not in the partying mood anymore to stay up all night with my son. But it was, so now I guess what I’m saying is my husband and I have had to articulate, I can’t do that. I’ll do this but I can’t do that and I need this and I don’t need that. We’ve been able to talk about like some of the really foolish things that people have said to us about how to heal head trauma, how to heal heart attack, diabetes, how to heal seizures. I told Bob, I said, do you remember we got that email from a friend letting us know that we needed to have our son exercised when he was first diagnosed with seizures and we’re just like, oh, please just like go away? So we’re in unique family. You know how meet the fockers talk about the circle of trust? We have that circle of trust. For a while there when Jacob turned, I think he was 19 and he decided he was going to manage his seizures with just marijuana, which is, it works for some people but it doesn’t work when you have, we found out that he has seizures coming from three parts of his brain. So he has a really, it’s a really tough case of, so anyway, like when you were saying, did we have to be with him all the time, let me tell you this, we had him in swim on the swim team. So we spent our swim team time when he was in the races, we were like this — [JOE] So those that are just listening, she’s just like moving her head back and forth. [KATE] Oh yes, I’m sorry. Moving my head back and forth and constantly having my eye on Jacob and disregarding everything around because if he had a seizure while he was swimming, which he did one time and he went to the bottom of the pool and I got the phone call saying, Jacob’s on the way to the hospital. I called my friend and I said, “Hey, you need to go with me to the hospital because Bob was watching Jacob and he went to the bottom of the pool.” My friend’s like, oh yes. Oh, I’ll gladly go with you. I said, okay, your job is, if Jacob doesn’t make it, you have to stop me from killing Bob because I’m really angry because I found out, we didn’t know it, but Bob had heart disease. Part of his heart was already dead and he was fighting off heart disease. I think it was that fall that he had his second heart attack and ended up having an emergency triple bypass and valve repair. So he had taken a nap while Jacob was at swim lessons with an incredible swim instructor who saved his life. But when I heard the story, I was a little uptight. [JOE] How do you, I mean, I’m thinking about, both my daughters had heart issues that were resolved in their first year and now are healthy. Even just that first year of medical and I have a close friend who has a medically fragile daughter and just seeing how functional the relationship often has to be, to just make sure your kids stay safe and doesn’t die. I mean, so how did you and Bob, or maybe you didn’t stay connected beyond it just being a logistical marriage? [KATE] Well, we did. We did. Just this morning I told him, I actually, I have really, really good friends. I actually told Bob thank you for constantly making me feel like I’m beautiful. It’s been effort. It’s been work but I think we’re probably humble enough and foolish enough that it’s all been worth it. We pursue each other as friends. We were friends before we got married. When he had his massive heart attack, after his triple bypass and valve repair, after the surgery, he grabbed me by the hand and he would say, when I get out of here, I’m going to show you how much I love you. Why, I had just told him, I’m leaving you. I’m not having my kids be around this angry man. We’ve done so much therapy. I don’t know what else to do. The kids and I are leaving you. Then that afternoon, that morning he said, it was just like Clint Eastwood, he said, you got to do what you got to do. I’m like, okay, Louis, Lamore, whatever. Then after he had the triple bypass and valve repair, he kept taking me by the hand. He kept on saying, when I get out of here, I’m going to show you how much I love you. I kept on thinking to myself, not to him, not to dead man walking, but I kept on thinking, you got six months, buddy. I’m going to give you a six months because I’m not going to do this for the rest of my life. And I think maybe that’s part of how we’ve kept it together is we know what we’re not going to do for the rest of our lives so we pursue what we are going to do for the rest of our lives. We certainly haven’t had a lot of family support. We don’t live around family. We have been completely blessed by friends who are family. We’ve been completely blessed by John and Penny Trotwine, Helen Hamstra, Margie, Sherry Milky. I mean just our friends who stick closer than a brother. That’s another story, my brother. I don’t, I would say we did the Gottman methods, what works and what doesn’t work and discovering, oh, that doesn’t work. Being married to an introvert, can you imagine, I’m married to an introvert? I mean, you’re listening to me talk, I’m married to an introvert and he hasn’t killed me and I haven’t killed him emotionally. We haven’t done that emotionally. We haven’t done that spiritually. We’ve not had a domestic violent relationship except for when he was emotionally just volatile and we both had to learn our boundaries. I don’t know, Bob’s a constant, romantic too. He’s the guy that 60 to 60. I’m turning 60 and all of a sudden he’s like, I’m giving you 60 presents before your 60th birthday? Life just doesn’t go perfectly for us. It doesn’t man. Maybe that’s okay. [BiOptimizers] Did you know that there is one phase of sleep that almost everyone fails to get enough of? This one phase of sleep is responsible for most of your body’s daily rejuvenation, repair, controlling hunger, weight loss, and boosting energy. I’m talking about deep sleep. If you don’t get enough deep sleep, you’ll probably always struggle with cravings, slow metabolism, premature aging, and even worse conditions. A big reason why most people don’t get enough deep sleep is because of magnesium deficiency, which affects over 80% of the population. Magnesium increases GABA, which encourages relaxation on a cellular level, which is critical for sleep. It’s important to understand that most magnesium products out there are either synthetic or they have one or two forms of magnesium, which really the body needs all seven forms for the essential sleep mineral. That’s why I recommend a product my friends over at BiOptimizers created called Magnesium Breakthrough. Taking this magnesium before bed helps you relax and wake up refreshed and energized. I also love that BiOptimizers offers free shipping on select orders as well as a 365-day money-back guarantee on all their products. Plus, they have a customer satisfaction rating of 99.3%. You can get 10% off Magnesium Breakthrough, the best aid that I know of for boosting deep sleep at Again, that’s, and be sure to use [PRACTICE10] for 10% off. [JOE SANOK] What else, what else has been helpful? I mean, to have such a long period of time with a son dealing with seizures, and I mean, you had shared even some other things in your family what habits — [KATE] Sexual assault [JOE] Go ahead. [KATE] I think the sexual assault of our daughter was one of the most devastating times for Bob and I, and really when we found out that one of our daughters had been raped when she was, I think it was between seventh and eighth grade, maybe eighth grade and ninth grade, I’m really, I apologize to her that I can’t remember the days, but I think that was one of the most devastating times for us, where we had to honor how we were both walking through that and we had to really respect each other and our journey through that. Bob is an ISTP and I am an ENFJ. Those are the Myers Briggs. We are as opposite as you can be in so many ways. I think if anything, we’ve had to take a step back, we’ve chosen to, we haven’t had to. That’s a word. Remember, I’m going to jump back to this. I remember when Jacob was having seizures and I had a friend say, I don’t know how you do this. How can you do this? I remember looking at her and I was like, could you give me a different choice? I mean, I don’t necessarily want to do this, but the reality is I choose and Joe, I’m, I apologize for this, what I’m going to say, because it’s going to hit home, but I choose to daily, be there for my family. I know that I don’t have to, I know I can walk away from all of this and I’ve said that for years. One of my interns or associates came to me and she said, you use choose a lot. She said, can you tell that to me? She was a young married woman. I said, I have freedom in the fact that I choose. I don’t feel like a prisoner. I choose to be there for my husband. I choose to be there for my children. I choose to be there for myself. I don’t have to, I don’t have to do anything. That gives me freedom and sometimes that gives me joy and it also gives me freedom to be imperfect. We’re walking through another bump in the road that I can’t share publicly. Just this morning I was telling one of my family members, I said, we’re not going to walk through this perfectly. We just, aren’t, we’re going to say stupid shit and we’re going to do really foolish things. We’re going to have to say, I’m really sorry. I’m sorry, you were right. I’m sorry, I was wrong. I don’t know if that has been something that’s really helped Bob and I, because I’ll tell you what, when we first got married, I apologized all the time and my beloved husband didn’t even know how to apologize. We had to learn that skill, I had to learn to not apologize and he had to learn to take ownership and apologize. [JOE] For you personally, outside of the relationship how did you get through it? Because there’s of course the collective as a couple, but what was the personal of some, whether they’re habits or books or mindsets or people like, what helped you just get through all this? [KATE] So I study resiliency. I have been studying resiliency since 2008. I do that, I do the corny things. I do the I, Kate Piper will be a kind fun loving well-balanced wife, mother, friend, therapist. Sometimes in the heat of things, I will actually think I’m not the easiest person to live with. Sometimes I will actually think, how do I respond kindly or how do I make this fun? This isn’t fun. It needs to be fun for me. My personality I need to have fun. I wake up, I’m also a breast cancer survivor and since 2018, I started the gratitude journal. I read the book or listened to the book A Thousand Gifts. So I do my gratitude journal every morning. I don’t meditate as much as consistently as I should. I don’t should on myself. The other thing that I do is I do the gratitude journal and I do some sort of spiritual grounding every day for myself. Then I exercise, I used to do the triathlon stuff. When I found out my daughter had been raped and that she had kept it to herself for a couple of years when we found that out, when I found that out personally, I was appalled at, I felt like a failure as a mom, complete failure, devastated failure. Like I’m a therapist and I missed the change in her personality. I missed the behaviors. I missed that she was suffering. I still have, I can’t talk about that without feeling shame about that. But we do the best that we can. We do the best we can and we apologize and we keep moving forward. That’s when I started running again, because it was like, I’m 49 years old. At the time maybe I was 50, 49, whatever I’m old. I started running again because I was just like that mindset of, okay, I’ll do a half marathon, man. If she can do this and suffer through that, I need to get my body back into top fitness shape so that I can live this life and be there for my family the way I want to be. I’m in that process again, hired a personal coach who’s kicking my butt virtually and got me on the meal plans and got me exercising. Like this morning, my body’s all sore because of the exercising. [JOE] So you said every day you do some sort of spiritual grounding. For you what’s that look like? [KATE] For me I read the Bible like every day or I read something, like right now I’m reading from Rick Warrens. It’s about happiness and I can’t even say the name of the book. I’m reading it every day. I pray every day and I don’t just pray, I don’t just. So true confession I graduated from Moody Bible Institute and my spirituality used to be like really black and white and in a box. So I just spent some time with a friend that who lives in Denver. We were talking about our spirituality and how we’ve grown and I think now I have a relationship with God, as I know him and my spirituality is not in a box, but I find real wisdom and real encouragement. I read a Proverbs every day and a chapter in the Proverbs every day and I’m just like blown away at the wisdom, the ancient wisdom. So when I talk to people about it, I talk to them about the ancient wisdom. I think my spirituality is so private and so personal to me and I don’t ever want to should on somebody else’s spirituality. I have felt like God has had my back since, before I was born. I was adopted and I know my birth family. I met them like in 2014 and my husband was like, are you okay? How are you doing? I’m like, I feel more than ever that God. I’m going to say, as I know him has had my back throughout my life. If he has my back, then he has my front. Sometimes like yesterday morning to tell you the truth yesterday morning, we were calling Jacob. I was at work and Bob was at work and Jacob was at home by himself and didn’t pick up the phone, didn’t pick up the phone, didn’t pick up the phone. I can’t tell you how many days we’ve had like this, where I’m like, okay, do I go home and do I find Jacob dead from a head injury? Do I find him that, this time he’s suffocated from the seizure? So I believe God has my back. I also believe that God has my future. So whether it’s my husband just had a triple bypass and valve repair and I’m in bed with him and he’s wanting to have sex and I’m like, you know one of the top ways that men who have heart disease, the one of the top ways that they die is having sex. So I’m like, okay, could we just not do this the rest of your life? Would that be okay? And it wasn’t okay. so I have to live with the fact that people can die at any moment in my life. It’s a realistic fact. It’s not just this oh, well we only live for a season it’s okay. So if I go home and Jacob is dead, what are we going to do from there? I have my game plan if Bob dies. And by the way, you might be brought in on my game plan. My game plan is somebody’s going to do a GoFundMe and I’m going to go to bed for at least one month to three months. A really good friend told me when I told her my plan, I’m like, I’m just going to go to bed, because I’ll be a zombie. She said, I’ll crawl in bed with you and just hold you. I’m like, yes, that’s what I would need. May I share one of my favorite spiritual journeys’ stories, is where Elijah was this great man of the Israelites. He fought these battles. We’ve been fighting wars forever. It’s horrible. But he was fighting a great battle. In Chronicles, it talks about how then Jezebel said, he really pissed off Jezebel and Jezebel said, that’s it. I’m going to come and get you and you’re mine buddy. I think it’s ironic that that’s what tipped him over and he ended up under a broom tree and here’s this great prophet and he’s under this broom tree. He said, it’s enough. I just want to die. It’s enough. The angel of the Lord came to him, in the Bible it says that the angel of the Lord came to him and the angel of the Lord said, get up, pull yourself. No, the angel of the Lord said, sleep and eat because the journey is long for you and woke him up three times, sleep and eat because the journey is long for you. I have those moments, definitely have had those moments in the 32 years of parenting in the 35 years of marriage of where I’ve thought it’s enough, God. Man, just, just take me home. I can’t do this. This is just way too much. I inevitably have people in my life who come into my life and they will encourage me sleep and eat because the journey’s long, it’s a long journey. I think everybody has their own journey and their own choices. I think we need to be that inner voice that says, okay, I’m just going to sleep and eat and I’m going to just take good care of myself and I’m going to rest. Then we need to be around people in our lives who allow us to just experienced that inner rest that we need. I think from that comes joy. I really think from that comes joy and laughter and fun. [JOE] I mean, I think that’s such a great way to end it sleep and eat the journey’s long. Thank you so much, Kate, for sharing your story, how you got through it and for being a part of this series. We so appreciate having you on this show. [KATE] It’s really my privilege. I have so much respect for you, Joe. I wish I could be like Joe or like Ernesto or like these rock star people. I’m little Kate Piper just living my life and trying to show up for my family. That’s my priority. Hopefully I can inspire some people to live lives of resiliency and not just like suck it up, buttercup. There’s a time for that. But if that’s all that life is, I’m not up for it. It’s got to be fun, but it’s got to be rest. [JOE] Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We have more of these interviews coming up. Thank you so much, everyone for listening. We couldn’t do this without our sponsors and even doing a sponsor read after these feels a little bit like, ugh, but I mean our sponsors are sponsoring these podcasts and this series to make sure that they’re there to support you in so many ways. One of our newest sponsors BiOptimizer is talking all about how you can have more energy, stronger bones, healthy blood pressure, less irritability, calmer mood, and fewer migraines. They are a supplement company, which I’ve said early on when they came on that I thought a supplement company, I don’t know that sometimes there are these like pyramid schemes, but we dug in. We talked to the company and I take supplements. They have this Magnesium Breakthrough that just helps you just feel better. Two capsules before bed help you feel a lot better with your mood. So, you’re going to get 10% off in free shipping. They are a great company. They sent me a bunch of the product and it’s really amazing. So thank you so much. Check out Thank you for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have an amazing day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. 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