[ALISON PIDGEON]
You are listening to the Grow a Group Practice podcast. Whether you were thinking about starting a group practice or in the beginning stages, or want to learn how to scale up your already existing group practice, you are in the right place. I’m Alison Pidgeon, your host, a serial entrepreneur with four businesses, one of which is a large group practice that I started in 2015. Each week, I feature a guest or topic that is relevant to group practice owners. Let’s get started.

Welcome to the Grow group Practice podcast. I’m Alison Pidgeon, your host. I am so glad you decided to join us today. I am talking to my good friend, Dana Robertson. She and her husband, Chris own an agency called Pennant Creatives and she provides the creative direction, design thinking, values, generation and strategy consultation to her clients. What’s really unique about Dana is that she has a master’s degree in social work and that’s actually how we met each other. We used to work together at the same mental health agency and then when she met her husband, she decided to join his business and he builds websites and they expanded into branding and actually working with Dana right now on a new business project. So really appreciate her knowledge of the mental health field and also her creativity and her knowledge around marketing and branding. So in our interview today, she’s going to be talking about values-based branding. So if you’re not familiar with that it’s definitely worth a listen. I’m a big believer in using your values to guide your business decisions. And here is my interview with Dana Robertson.
[ALISON]
Hi Dana. Welcome to the podcast.
[DANA ROBERTSON]
Hi, thank you for having me.
[ALISON]
Yes, it’s so great to talk with you. Before we get started, can you give us a little bit of an introduction of you and what you do?
[DANA]
Yes. My name is Dana Robertson. I am the dreamer at Pennant Creatives. We are creative agency. We specialize in values-based branding.
[ALISON]
Awesome. And I know you run that business with your husband, correct?
[DANA]
I do. His name’s Chris Brian Hurst. He is the designer. And yes, it’s been so fun because ever since I met him, we’ve wanted to do something together creatively. I never dreamed it would be a creative agency honestly, but it’s been so much fun to build this with him.
[ALISON]
Awesome. I think one of the really unique things too, about you is that I know you have your master’s in social work. So you come from the mental health field and so you really have an understanding of when working with mental health businesses, you have a good understanding of what’s appropriate and not appropriate, and how to really market and brand a practice, which is why I asked you to come on the podcast today. So obviously we talk about group practices on this podcast and that’s our audience. So I was hoping to kind of hear some tips from you about branding a group practice. I realize that’s a pretty broad question, but if you have a few points or tips that you could give us, that’d be great.
[DANA]
Absolutely. Well, and I think that our approach, values-based branding, it really came to be when I stepped into this role as the dreamer. It was, well, actually it was under like a completely different name and we just build it together. But as I started to learn about the process of design and the process of branding, I started to kind of make connections to my social work background and really understanding what I call the lived experience. So I think that with a group practice, when you are setting out as a group of clinicians, you’re looking to serve people, the really awesome thing about coming up with a brand when you start with your values is that all of you in that practice have a set of shared values. So I will tell you from our own story, how we came across value space branding was asking this very simple question, who are we?

It sounds very, very overly simple, but when you are able to start there and answer that question, it gets you on that journey to really understand what your values are. And the magic of that is a couple of things. Number one, that can help guide the branding process for you if you start there because are shared values among all of you as a group. And secondly, that gets you on a path of the gold standard of branding, which is brand consistency, and really making sure that your consistency will speak to your trustworthiness, your legitimacy, your professionalism, better than probably anything else for a client who is looking to find a connection with a therapist, looking to find something extremely important to them. So that is probably one of the best things about values-based branding.
[ALISON]
Yes. I’m really glad you brought that up because that’s also something that I’m really big on, establishing your values as a business. And then obviously it kind of carries through like your culture and your marketing and everything. It’s sort of infused throughout the business. So that’s something I actually make my consulting clients do at the beginning, like write down your values so that way you’re kind of running everything you do through that filter. Yes, I can see you’re nodding in agreement.
[DANA]
Yes. For me, I was like, we need to do this right now. We were trying to come up with a new brand for us actually and I was like, “We need to do this because I think this will really help, it brings so much clarity into like who you are and who you want to be.” I think another thing that we often say with branding is you need to think about your target audience. So you want to be really specific about who you’re serving, but you want to think of your values as both outward facing and inward facing when you’re developing your brand, like you said. So it is with outward facing it is that lived experience and really, really understanding what is it that your person is experiencing right now?

Not like it’s okay to get specific about who they are, create that like avatar of this is a person, a middle-aged woman who is living here and like all of that. And that’s good too, but what is that person’s lived experience? How are they embracing their life right now? How are they not embracing their life? What is going through their mind every day. So really, really understanding that and connecting it back to the values of why you started that practice in the first place is key for your group practice. And then it’s also looking inward. So those set of values can help to really guide how you do in your group practice, because you are no longer working individually all on your own. You’re part of a group practice.

So it can help guide these, this is kind of some of my more favorite things about values-based branding is how people feel when they step into your waiting room, how they feel when they’re greeted, how they feel when you schedule the appointment with them and maybe what does that follow-up email look like? Does it resonate your values? Like all of those things are an extension of your brand and it’s essential. And then it also, like you said, with culture, it’s very important to consider, culture isn’t like something that you can just make. We all know that, but making sure that you embrace those values and start to understand and use them to assess how it’s going with the culture of your practice is really, really important because those things, if you’re not working on that, it’s like a really any relationship. If you’re not working on that as a team it’s really, really easy to, that gets really lost I think probably in the day to day. It’s probably on the more challenging things but it’s also right now one of the more important things that people are really paying attention to.
[ALISON]
Yes, because they’re trying to retain employees and they’re trying to attract employees in a environment where it’s very competitive.
[DANA]
Yes. And I have two rules with values and values which I tell my people, our people that we work with. So the number one is, do not write your values on a wall and walk away because every, like a thing Brene Brown says, she’s like every company has values of written on their wall. And if you talk to any one employee, do they know them? Do they know how they’re manifesting in their company? Most of the time the answer is no. So don’t do that. And that too is, do not use your values to beat people up.

So we taught, we actually like, when I’m working with people, we talk through those nuances and we really think through, we call it brand strategy. Another favorite quote of mine is culture eats strategy for breakfast. So I remind everyone of that. I’m like, yes, we’re working on strategy, but we really want to think through like, strategy is really just thinking through what are the steps? What are the things that we need to make, connections we need to make internally to be who we say we are and be our values basically. So how does that look? For every team it’s different, but that’s part of our process when we work on values-based branding.
[ALISON]
Cool. So if someone listening right now has never written down the values of their practice and they’re realizing that they should, is there a specific template for that or what would be helpful things to think about for them to figure out what their values are?
[DANA]
I think that it really is like, there are some key questions. So it’s like, who are we? When you do this, I think it is really more helpful to do it in teams, if you can and just like, you don’t need much. You need like a pen and paper or you need a whiteboard and just like start asking, like, who are we, knowing and understanding your why. Like maybe each therapist or each group member needs to identify why they’re there. I mean, yes, we’re all doing this to earn a living. Yes, we’re all doing this because this is a great opportunity right now. I mean, right now it’s a great opportunity to have a group therapy practice, but beyond that, there is a why. So let’s like list that out? So it does take place in conversation. You can’t just contrive values. They have to come from within.

So it’s self reflection, but it’s also like group discussion kind of coming down to, and looking for themes in what you are all talking through. And there are like, I can share the link and, but Brene Brown actually has a great list of just value words. And then I always tell people when we’re brainstorming about values, is don’t get hung up of like, oh, well, everybody says that. Like, don’t worry about what other people’s values are and having yours be like different. I was talking to someone about trust and they’re like, well, I don’t want to say trustworthy because, but I’m saying, okay, look, and this was in a completely different industry and your industry, like you told me X, Y, and Z about trust and how incredibly important it is. So it’s not necessarily just like picking a word, it’s really understanding how that value relates to your profession and why it’s so important.
[ALISON]
Yes, because I think there’s probably, like you said, kind of a list of value-based words, but at the end of the day, it comes down to like your unique spin on it related to your specific type of business and your own, I think a lot of times to your own values. The values you have in your personal life are usually a lot of times the same values you have with running your business. So that’s another thing that I tell people to think about what are your personal values and how can you kind of extrapolate that to the business?
[DANA]
Yes. So I think that those types of conversations and narrowing it down, I think those are great ways to then come up with like a list of values and kind of have four or five words per value of like, kind of why and what you mean by that. So I think that that is a really good way to kind of get started with it.
[ALISON]
Nice. So then I’m assuming once you establish the values, then you have a really good foundation for doing the rest of the branding and marketing. So what’s the process after that, after you establish the values?
[DANA]
Actually in our process, we don’t even start with just listing values. The reason that we do that is a lot, because we kind of see our people who are coming to us with help for a brand as the expert. So I want to hear from them. So we always start all of our clients with a brand strategy lineup, it’s what we call it and we are talking about values in that conversation, but we’re not explicitly talking about it. The reason is we need to understand every single angle of how you look at your business, how you look at the people that you’re working with, how you see yourselves. So that really is the first step for us. And then we’re having those conversations about the values.

So usually what manifests out of that because, well, I guess kind of backing up, because people come to us usually for some type of deliverable, we’re telling like they’re usually coming for like a brand, like an actual visual brand. They’re coming for help with social media, they’re coming for help with a website or those kinds of things. I always explain to people that we have this deliverable and then we have our hope in delivering this, is that in working together, being creative, we can help your team or organization think differently about how to apply your values. And then our third impact is that we’re hoping with the people we’re working with, that we can help spark some individual change on how they see themselves or the work. So we’re looking to do that and in that I am then saying like, these are our lists of chosen values, and this is what we come back to when we’re developing this brand together.

So we’re working on the project and constantly coming back to that and understanding that as we develop the work that we’re doing together. So yes, if it’s social media, for instance, we’re really using those values to talk about how you show up in the social media world. And that can impact like which platforms you choose, that sustainability piece, like what’s realistic for you and your practice to be doing for social media activities. I think sustainability is so important, especially with social media. So that’s kind of an example. And then like, what’s the content going to look like? And the values really drive all of that.
[BRIGHTER VISION PROMO]
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[ALISON]
Yes, there was something you had said a few minutes ago about consistency and branding. I was hoping we could talk a little bit more about that because that’s what I see practice owners doing that’s not so good. It’s that they’re not consistent and then it’s like sort of very, it can be off-putting for the client or the potential client. So can you talk a little bit more about maybe how to be consistent, but also what are some of the mistakes that you see people making with consistency?
[DANA]
Yes, so why is consistency so important? I think we should start there. Consistency is important, especially now because we’re looking at the modern consumer. And this is like very broadly across the board, but our modern consumer is looking to not just hold out a product or purchase something or donate something or spend money on therapy. They want to be able to align with the values of whatever product, wherever their donor monies are going, wherever they’re spending their money. Now more than ever the modern consumer is looking to make sure that where their money goes means something. And I think this is cross generation. I don’t know or like, no matter who you are, it’s very, very prominently, now, our values are driving our decisions now more than ever.

So that trust factor and that factor of really, really understanding how strong or clear something is, is really helping consumers determine where to go. So, yes, I think the biggest thing with consistency is sometimes it comes down to really, really simple things. So your brand attributes, making sure that you’re consistent with your fonts and your colors and the look and feel of all of your visual elements for your content, your waiting room, like all of that. It’s very, very important to keep it really, really consistent across the board visually because people take things in visually usually more quickly than they would reading something. But it’s also like really understanding language, what words we use, what words we do not use and kind of how, what, like tone of voice in your writing and all of those things.

So I usually recommend for brand consistency is to first assess what you have and really understand if you see things that are consistent, what are they, I think that’s really important, but then also like with the inconsistencies, really understanding how to hone those and and have it be across the board similar. So a lot of things, one mistake I see people doing is trying to explain things about your practice in a million different ways. You, it is okay. I know this sounds maybe silly, but like in marketing it’s okay with your content to say the same thing over and over and especially if you have really nice curated content that aligns with your values. It’s extremely helpful to continue to repeat the same things because that sticks in people’s minds and you feel like you’re saying the same thing over and over.

It’s like Keno the band that they’re sick of, they’re playing their hit song, but it’s okay everybody loves it. So don’t feel like you need to get too wordy or flowery with your written content. Be consistent with it. But the things that really lend to consistency, I think that maybe you’re picking up on what I’m saying are the little things. So okay, good example of this is that chicken establishment, the beautiful, delicious fried chicken establishment. They say my, is it my pleasure? My pleasure. They all say that. I think that’s a brand thing. I really do. Like you hear everyone say it and you know you need to do what it is that aligns with your values. So I am not suggesting that you use this phrase, like the same phrase, make your all your employees say it, but what I am saying is people notice. So think through it, do something that is sustainable, aligns with your values, but think through ways that even in the little things you’re consistent. It really, really makes for a stronger brand.
[DANA]
Yes. And I think about too, like in my own practice, so we have an arrow in our logo and so we use the arrow in different places. We even have like these sort of decorative wooden arrows hanging up in the office as like artwork. So I think that that helps that you keep seeing that over and over in different ways.
[DANA]
Yes. And things like that, it is. It really does, I mean, like it’s not necessarily that people overtly notice it, but I think it is very, it helps to create that trust.
[ALISON]
Right. And I think that it’s, I mean, like soothing to people are coming to them when they’re like, oh, I know what to expect. I saw the website and now I’m at the office and it’s very consistent and now it just makes me feel more comfortable. So anything about marketing and branding specifically related to a group practice? I think one of the main challenges that I know a lot of my clients have is that they have practitioners who were doing different things. So like they have a therapist who’ve seen couples and a therapist who’s seeing kids and a therapist who’s doing anxiety work or whatever. And it’s like they don’t know how to market the practice now that they have all of these different specialties. So I don’t know if you have any tips related to that.
[DANA]
I think it depends on the practice, obviously because you know how leading a group think is a thing. So I think as you start to work together as colleagues, you may all be doing different things, but you develop as a group, something that doesn’t necessarily have to relate to the most tangible. I understand that the work is key and it is great, but there is probably something that really drew you all together. So I think it is thinking through it in a more broad sense when you’re marketing. And there’s still ways in your content strategy to highlight the incredible work and expertise of each of your colleagues separately. And you want to be doing that in a way that will resonate with your target audience or audiences but I still think in that there’s these commonalities. And I think that that is why values are so helpful in this situation because it isn’t necessarily always about what you do. It is mostly about who you are. So that resonates very clearly with your group of practitioners. So yes, I think it really, that translates well. So don’t basically, I would say, don’t think about it like, what do we all do. And that’s why the who are we are so important.
[ALISON]
I think that’s a really good point. And I wonder too, I don’t know if you can think of any examples of a group practice maybe that had, or just a business, obviously that has multiple employees and kind of how they presented themselves from a branding standpoint, not necessarily saying this is what we do or who you serve, but how did they kind of present themselves?
[DANA]
So we just recently worked with kind of like the more coalition-based organization. So they do like really broad work and for a while they were known as just being the funders of this one organization and that was it. But they do so much. They do so many awesome things. So basically they came to us and said, we know what we do we think. We do because we’re in the organization. They were like, well, we don’t know how to very clearly explain it to people and we need to. We need to know how to explain it to them and we want our website to say that because on their current website, so we were building a website with them, on their current website, we went on and it was like, you would just have like all this information thrown at you and the viewer, if you were just a user, you’d no idea where you’d fall in, you would just be so overwhelmed.

You wouldn’t know where to look kind of thing. So they knew that, and it like just needed updating and all that. So we started with the brand strategy lineup and we really were able to zero in on how, for them, it was like, they’re the connector and help to drive and empower. They worked with workforce development, a strong workforce. So we were able to help them first off, like key in on what the values were behind that and key in on ways to say it very briefly. But then we were able to combine that with the visuals. So we created some very easy visuals that we got feedback that you go right on the webpage and it was just basically like dots connecting.

But it was the simple imagery of that along with the tagline that people like logged on and they were like, “Oh my gosh, I get it. I get what you do.” And it clicked instantly. So we were able to initially do that visually for them, but then also we’re continuing to work with them on how that looks then within their organization, because they have these relationships that are really the key drivers of the work that they’re doing. And we’re saying how does the value show up in those relationships and how can you be intentional about those relationships, be it your team, be it, the people that you’re funding? How can we be intentional to really bring these values that you claim and that you are really working towards into the day-to-day of what you’re doing together.

So I think that is an example of how we were able to show, especially like the, I mean, there had been probably like four or five values, but like connection and being intentional partnerships. It’s like something that we were able to bring out way more strongly than we’d had before visually. It’s a process internally. That’s what I’ll say is, we can give you a beautiful visual presence and even like your written content, like that stuff can happen pretty quickly but the other piece of it is that process piece and value space branding is a process that, and that you implement. So we’re there for the long haul for that and we’re also there to help you visually get it up and on the web or wherever. So that was, I mean, that was such a cool project. I love working with this team.
[ALISON]
Nice. And I think it’s so important, like you said to recognize that you can’t just sit down for an hour and write down your values and then be done with it. It has to be a process where you’re asking other people for their input and you’re thinking about it. It’s one of those things I say. It has to percolate. You have to really, you know you’re in the shower thinking about it and then next week you’re driving and you’re like, “Oh yes, what about that?” Yes, it’s something that takes time and it sort of evolves.
[DANA]
Yes, exactly. And the really beautiful surprise when I started doing all this work was seeing how well that jives with the actual process of creativity. I think everybody has a creative gene in them. We’re all creative beings and so I think that the values-based branding goes along with the creative process, very beautifully, where it’s, you’re never done basically. And that’s the rub of being a creative, like being is that you’re never done. Like your work when you finish, you’re always like, oh, there’s so much more to be done. Well, the beauty of values-based branding is you can continue to build that out and you should because our values, they drive us in everything that we do in life. And if we let them guide the work that, especially work you’re doing in group practice, it has the ability to resonate, not only to the clients that really need your services, but to every one of you working in that group practice; that my hope is with a values-based brand that you’re impacting your work life, but then you’re going home and impacting your families and impacting your communities. So, I mean, I feel like that’s our vision at Pennant. We can create larger impacts through helping everyone understand how the values connect with the work they’re doing.
[ALISON]
Very cool. Well, it’s been so great to talk with you, Dana, and it’s just, you’re like singing my tune because I’m all about the values and making sure you’re living them out in your business. And I know you have a giveaway for our audience. You want to tell us about that?
[DANA]
I do. I am offering a free brand assessment. I love doing these. So basically it is you reach out to me, I’ll give Alison a link and I’m giving it to the first five people who reach out to me and mention Alison’s podcast. Basically, you can give me some type of brand material that you have. So give me a link to your website, your social media, whatever you have and I take a look at it before we meet, and I come up with three strengths and one area of focus for your brand. So I talk through that with you, then it’s a Zoom call we talk through, and then I provide you the brand assessment to take with you when we’re done.
[ALISON]
Awesome. Thank you. That’s very generous of you. So if people want to find out more about your company, how can they find you?
[DANA]
Find us on raisethepennant.com. Also we are on Instagram, Raise the Pennant and Facebook, also Raise the Pennant. And then I can give you connection to my own LinkedIn page because I love finding people on LinkedIn as well.
[ALISON]
Okay, amazing. Thank you so much, Dana. It’s been great talking to you.
[DANA]
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Alison, for having me.
[ALISON]
Thank so much again to Brighter Vision for being our sponsor this week. They are having their special fall into cash event. Definitely check that out over at their website, brightervision.com. And if you want to get the promotional offer they’re running right now to get a new website for only $49 a month for the whole first year, go to the special link they’ve set up for us, brightervision.com/joe.

Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview. And I wanted to let you know that if you are interested in joining us in Group Practice Boss. That is our membership community for group practice owners. We have ongoing enrollment, so all you have to do is go to our landing page at practiceofthepractice.com/grouppracticeboss. You can read more about what we offer and there’s a link there to sign up. We would love to have you in the group and I will see you next time.

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This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.