• Visit Todd’s website and connect on Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn.

Joe Sanok 00:00:00  How long do you spend writing your progress notes? Every day. If it's over 30 minutes, you should check out describe. Describe is a HIPAA compliant. I note taking software that I and many of my students use daily. It saves me 1 or 2 hours a day on my documentation around consulting, and I know it's going to save you more in counseling. Also, it customizes exactly to my own writing style. I recommend that every therapist give it a trial. It's free. Go to describe how to get started for free. Again, that's describe Mediacom to get started for free. This is the practice of the Practice podcast with Joe. Session number 1214. I'm Joe, your host, and welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. We're hanging out with Todd Herman, who helps the elite of the elite. He's been working with the highest achievers in sports and business. For over two decades. He's the creator of the multi-award winning leadership and skills development program 90 Day Year, and author of the Wall Street Journal bestselling book, The Alter Ego Effect The Power of Secret Identities to Transform Your Life, as well as My Super Me, a children's book to help young kids navigate tough stuff.

Joe Sanok 00:01:29  Todd, welcome to the show.

Todd Herman 00:01:31  Joe, great to be here.

Joe Sanok 00:01:33  I mean, back in, early February, late January of this year, CNN did a whole Kobe Bryant special, and you were like, major spotlight in that special that HBO and CNN did. tell me a little bit about that work with Kobe. And then I want to dig into peak performance, high performance, all of that, too. But just take us back to the story that they covered.

Todd Herman 00:01:58  Yeah. So, CNN had reached out to me in early of 2024, to let me know that their originals series was going to be doing a, you know, like a biopic on Kobe and his life. And through their research, they had discovered that I was the, coach that came in to work with Kobe on ultimately building the Black Mamba and that identity that he took out on the court. And the reason that we had originally, worked together was he actually came in through one of my mentors, this guy Harvey Dorfman, who is the giant of the mental game industry.

Todd Herman 00:02:38  He wrote one of the greatest books ever on the topic called Coaching the Mental Game, among many others. He was known as the Yoda of baseball, and I love honoring Harvey because he did so much for me. but when Kobe was going through his, sexual assault allegations in Colorado back in 2003. He had, through a friend, got connected to Harvey. And after speaking to Harvey briefly. Harvey connected him to me because I had, at that point in time, been running my mental game and peak performance practice since 1997, and I had sort of escalated up to working with really, really top end athletes, like the kind of the better of the better out there. And amongst that group, there was this common denominator of they would use their identity as a very specific method to help them go out and perform on their field of play or their court, whatever it was. And they would reference a persona, a character, an alter ego, secret identity, as a lot of times one of their tools like when I go out there, that's when I'm stepping into.

Todd Herman 00:03:45  And that resonated with me because I was I played football at a high level and some other sports at a high level, and that's what I did. And so, you know, using an alter ego was commonplace for me. And that's something just clicked in my head where I was like, wait a second, this isn't just some cute little thing. This is an actual this is a method. And that was back in about 2002 that I kind of made that discovery. And I started peeling it back. And I would interview past clients, say like, how would you do it? Anyway? Long story short, when Kobe was going through that and then Harvey connected him to me. what I said to Kobe when we met was, because he said, hey, I really feel like I'm losing my edge going into the season like this one area of my, life that's always been, consistent for me is that the court was always home to me, but he didn't feel like that was going to be the case.

Todd Herman 00:04:37  And so I said, well, you're not losing your edge. You're going through an ego death. And, the version of you that you took out onto the field before isn't going to be useful anymore. And, so over the course of about the next 7 to 8 months. That's when the Black Mamba was created.

Joe Sanok 00:04:56  You know, on a much different level. Me not being anywhere close to Kobe Bryant. I remember when I was a dorky Boy scout working at a Boy Scout camp, and, you know, I had gone to Catholic school. I never really was that good at, like, talking to girls or, like, really putting myself out there. And I remember I was on staff at this Boy Scout camp, and there was two girls that were working there, and one of them was cute. And I said to myself, listen, nobody knows like who you are back at Saint Francis. just act confident. And I walked up to this girl, Rachel, and I was like, 10th grade and just acted confident and talked to her.

Joe Sanok 00:05:33  And I remember I sat down at the table and all these nerdy Boy Scouts were like, I can't believe you talked to a girl. And but that whole alter ego thing allowed me to say at summer camp, as a camp counselor here, I'm boisterous, I'm engaged. I don't care if I do something stupid or silly, and it helped me then figure out for myself like, oh, I have these skills inside of me, and I have this edge that by just trying on this alter ego, actually helped me find things that I had really quelled because of nervousness or teen angst or whatever. so when you think about peak performance and, you know, kind of the future of that, I would love to start with misconceptions like, what do therapists, psychologists, the media like armchair experts, like, what do they get wrong about performance usually?

Todd Herman 00:06:28  well, I would say the one thing that people get wrong about performance is that everything's a performance. that's just been my, you know, that's been my stance that I delivered to other people.

Todd Herman 00:06:40  Because when you think about how you perform in anything, whether that's, you know, how you are as a parent, performance is just the way that you're going about something. And then is it getting you the result or is it giving you the experience? Either one of them, because those are two different things. you know, the result is, hey, did I, when I step off the court or when I lay my head on my pillow at night, did I get out of my day? What? I really wanted to get out of my day. And a lot of people don't have an affirmative with that. They don't have a very positive response with that. And then the experience of it is, am I doing it the way that I want to be doing it? and, and so one of the things that people get wrong about performance, or I would say one of the, you know, prevailing, content that's out there is most of the self-help leadership, even psychology books that have been written have been written by people who've never worked with actually super elite people.

Todd Herman 00:07:41  They they're they're they study people who are doing things that are maybe slightly above average. and there is a very different attitude way of going about things that people at the extremely elite level go about things. And, and so I think that there's, I think I know that there's a lot of really bad paradigms that people are operating through and expecting an outcome that's just never going to get them to. If they're really pursuing excellence, it's just not going to get them there.

Joe Sanok 00:08:17  One thing that I I've noticed when I've read, whether it's like biographies or like when I watched The Last Dance talk, talking about Michael Jordan, or, you know, reading about, like, Steve Jobs, these people that have done world changing things is it feels like there's just such an obsession, that oftentimes is at the expense of their family, at the expense of, like, like everything else, like whatever their thing is, such an obsession that they have to itch, that they they will get rid of everything else. And it to me it feels like.

Joe Sanok 00:08:53  And I would love your thoughts on this. Like that is great that we have Steve Jobs, who was such a perfectionist that notoriously had like one lamp in his house for years because no other furniture met his, like, perfect specifications. That's good to have people that have that level of of detail and eye to to make iPhones and to make computers or to have people that are so obsessed about, you know, basketball like Kobe, they can do these magnificent things. but that doesn't feel like it's in line with what the average high achiever maybe wants to to do or what's maybe even healthy. Like, how do you think through that, specifically the obsession side of what, at least from an outsider, I haven't worked with super elite elites. that's kind of what comes to mind for me is that obsessive side of some of this.

Todd Herman 00:09:38  It's it's an it really important distinction that you're making, Joe, is I, I like giving people a window into what that world looks like. And the reason I like doing it is so that I can show people.

Todd Herman 00:09:51  Most of you don't want it, so stop putting it up on a pedestal. I'm not. Thank you. I'm not saying it as, a self-congratulatory thing where it's like, hey, I work with the elite of the elite, and I'm better than you. Oh, no. I'm saying that's the chosen group that I worked with the most and most of the, you know, narrative that's around them, around wanting to be them. Like, most people are just not cut to be like that. And it's not that they're better, as as I tried to do with my interview with CNN and HBO through it, like, I don't I mean, yeah, I had a great opportunity to work with someone who ended up definitely redefining, a sport in many ways, but I never pedestal ized Kobe by any stretch of the imagination. and in fact, that's one of the things that, like, started to fracture the relationship that we did have was I challenged him on topic categories in his own life that he really didn't want to be challenged on, which was fine, because it's, you know, he ended up, I think, mastering many of those things later on.

Todd Herman 00:11:12  But, yeah, you're right. So talk going back to your question about the obsession of something, the word that I like to use with people is stamina. there are some people who have got a stamina for something that other people don't have. And the reason I like stamina is I think it's a very positive word. Obsession for most people is is negative, in its connotation. But someone like say, in the National Hockey League. Now, Connor McDavid, who's just an absolute superstar, world class athlete and going to go down as one of the greatest of all time. I know some of the behind the scenes of Connor's world, his stamina for practice, his stamina for the focus on the extraordinarily minute details of what it takes in order for him to compete at the level that he has classified himself at, is just it's degrees more refined than other people who I do have clients in the NHL who are extremely good at what they do, but he's just operating at a completely different level of stamina for those things than others are.

Joe Sanok 00:12:30  Yeah, and I think that so often when those people are at that level, it looks so easy. You know, you look at most stand up comedians and you watch them and it's just they're just telling stories, but it's like there's such a beat to it where, you know, the good ones feel like they're just telling a story. and the great ones, it just feels so natural and off the cuff. And so, I love that, you.

Todd Herman 00:12:54  Know, I just want to stop saying. Because I want to make sure that this. I mean, one of the terms I use all the time is the field of play. And if there's one of my if anyone gives me a positive testimonial about something is, you know, Todd is very practical, like I like to bring we can talk theory about things, but to make something practical for the person that's listening right now, the reason I bring up stamina is when you look at your own life. So I'm talking to you, the listener, right now.

Todd Herman 00:13:19  When you take a look at your own life and you think about what's what's an area of your world of therapy or psychotherapy or psychology that you just seem to have a stamina for, like you love to consume that topic that much more than probably other psychologists that are like you would ever want to talk about. That is, I think, something where you should double down on it. And when I take a look at my career, like, you know, I'm globally known as kind of owning the category of alter egos, right? Like, that's a very specific thing. and that's because I have a stamina for that topic. I have a stamina for the topic of identity mixed with real world practical application more than anybody else that's out there. And and so I can talk ad nauseam about it over and over and over again. But I'm a farm and ranch kid from Alberta, Canada, and I grew up in the world of practicality. And my my issue with this world of mindset or psychology or sociology is it's so theoretical and most people do a horrible job of giving their client or someone else something that they can sink their teeth into as something that's practical, that I can go and implement right now in my life, and it's going to feel like it's giving me at least some momentum.

Todd Herman 00:14:52  That's the only thing I care about. Joe, can I get you some momentum? Not can I solve the entire thing for you? Can I get you momentum? Because in my equation, momentum creates confidence. Confidence creates certainty. And when I have someone who is now certain that they can make change happen in themselves, that's where it's the ultimate home base, I think for a human being is trust. When you trust that you can do something, and that goes to the athlete who can trust their capabilities, that goes to the therapist who can trust their capabilities. That's when you get to really open up and allow the best parts of you to come out now.

Joe Sanok 00:15:36  I want to go back to kind of what you said. So we've got, you know, therapists sitting across from their clients like, these aren't people that are the elite of the elite. what should we be bringing into sessions when it comes to peak performance and helping our clients in challenging maybe the narratives that that are often told to people in regards to to what peak performance looks like.

Todd Herman 00:15:59  Well, I think one of my core beliefs is that whether you're doing therapy or whether I'm doing coaching with someone, which are which are two different things, and, you know, to the therapists out there, you would be happy to know, as someone who's been who was in the world of coaching long before coaching became an industry. I don't do therapy with people. I don't do it. I think most people do a horrible job now in the coaching space of staying in their lanes. I'm not trained in therapy. Yeah, I've consumed as much as I possibly can around, cognitive behavioral therapy. Family systems therapy. Acceptance and commitment therapy because they all have great tools that I can borrow in the work that I would do with a client or with training that we could do. but I still think that one of the attitudes that a great therapist or, psychologist would have when they're sitting across is giving people something practical that they can do. I just don't have a great belief in talk therapy, and talking it out.

Todd Herman 00:17:07  And so I think and I'm not going to tell people how to do their jobs or whatever, but a lot of people are coming to others desperate to get some sort of handhold or grip or traction in, in their life in some way or in the context of a problem. So I think that people should have tools to give people.

Joe Sanok 00:17:29  Now, you know, part of this is the series The Future of. And so, you know, I'm wondering what you're seeing bubble up like, you know, you've got these communities, you have training, you speak you you do all these different things. Like what are you seeing bubble up when it comes to performance and and people achieving their goals and kind of all the different aspects of things that that you help folks with.

Todd Herman 00:17:54  One big thing that's been bubbling up over, I would say, the last 14 months, we've we've been coming through an era where it's very, very self-flagellating like people. There's been such an index towards me and my, and there's a shift that's happening towards people wanting to have a greater sense of connectedness and purpose with even the work that they do, whatever it might be.

Todd Herman 00:18:28  and when you take a look at just what we've come through over the last 15 years, whether it's Instagram or any of the social media platforms, there is so much of a turning of the camera back towards ourself and then trying to, you know, whether it's inflate our own ego or try and posture to others that that is it's kind of dying and, and it's because there is this, sense of disconnectedness that's out there. So future of performance wise, there is a really deep need amongst the CEOs that I've been speaking to, the athletes that I've talked to, clientele across, you know, so many different disciplines of people wanting to feel like the work that they're doing means something more than just me and my own accolades. Like, that's, that's a it's a it's a really big shift that's happening is a really deep connectedness towards, hey, this one thing that's going to help me improve my business or my life or whatever. But but how can I also improve the the world or the people around me as well at the same time?

Joe Sanok 00:19:46  What are people saying is causing that shift for them.

Todd Herman 00:19:49  Well it's it I mean I like using the first principles as a way of sort of trying to look at the lens of something and you know, in nature nothing is never good or bad, right. Like, water can be bad. You know, if you're floating in the middle of the ocean, the last thing you want is another wave to hit you. but when you're in the desert, you definitely do want to drink of water. so we kind of operate in these worlds of extremes. And so the, the thing that drove us is we went into the level of toxicity. We went too far into my, my world. And now we're trying to kind of find a way to navigate back to a better equilibrium with definitely pursuing the things that interest me. But we do see this degradation that's happening in society. So they're trying to feel whole with ourselves and whole with the world around us.

Joe Sanok 00:20:40  Yeah. Listen, I didn't take insurance in my counseling practice because I had no idea how to handle it.

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Joe Sanok 00:21:59  Like are there any like, tools or any ways that people are thinking through that? I know one thing you had said is kind of thinking about what you can sustain and like, who are those clients that you just really enjoy working with? Like, what other ways can people really kind of dig into finding that deeper meaning in the work that they're doing?

Todd Herman 00:22:18  Well, one of the things and it sounds like the it sounds like it's running completely counter to what I'm talking about. But it's you, someone being very honest about the things that really are interesting to them, or the things that they're really motivated by. So a part of the toxicity of what's what I've seen. And then of course, like the coaching and the topics, the conversations of working with people have been like over the last while is they're doing things because of what they perceive other people want them to be doing, or what they think is going to help them get traction with, let's say it's content on the internet or something. but they're not they're not really engaged with it.

Todd Herman 00:23:08  So I would say like to that person, in order to find the way to help them get back to serving other people is to be very mindful about and being very honest with yourself. What are the things that really like me up? Because that's one of the best things that you can do for other people, is to actually be engaged with the stuff that lights you up. That's that is truly why I do love working with the quote, the elite of the elite. Because whether it's obsession or whether it's unhealthy, levels of, focus on something, you can only sustain that for a long time over a long career. If you truly do love the thing that you're doing. And and it's very inspiring to be around people that are like that, on a daily and weekly basis.

Joe Sanok 00:24:01  Now, tell me personally, as you've grown in different areas, like how have you thought through your communities, through kind of what you're building, like, how do you take what you've learned and personally apply it to your personal and professional life?

Todd Herman 00:24:16  Well, one one thing that I'm a huge believer in, and I've been an advocate of for a long time is, you know, apprenticeship and mentorship.

Todd Herman 00:24:25  and I have been a byproduct of being able to stand on the shoulders of incredible people that have gone before me. And I'd have to think, you know, the original and best mentors I ever got, which were I mean, I won the lottery on on parents. My mom and dad were were my my dad just passed away last year. But they're incredible people. And when growing up on the farm and ranch, I was the third boy. And my parents knew that I was not going to be the one who came home and took over the farm by any stretch of the imagination, but they they did deliver some great advice to me as I was leaving. And they said, you know, whatever you go off and do in life, like we probably won't be able to help you because you're going to be choosing a career or a life that we just don't have experience with. but hopefully we've given you character traits. And, you know, those essentially those soft skills that are important. But the advice that they gave was, what are you going do? Find whoever is the best.

Todd Herman 00:25:27  And tuck yourself underneath their wing and never forgot that. And I would say that that led me to so Jim Rohn was one of my first mentors. And Jim is kind of very famous in the especially in the business philosophy and speaking world. And his clips are viral still across the interwebs. And, you know, when I started in, when I was 21, he I bumped into him, very accidentally when I went with my uncle to an awards ceremony that he was winning an award at. And I got to sit next to Jim, and that's how I met him and developed a relationship. And, you know, so he taught me a bit about, like, the world of, you know, speaking and getting your message out there and being very careful about the choice of words that you use and slaving over the right word versus the wrong word when you're saying something and. And then Harvey Dorfman was another great mentor who I had reached out to. So my point, though, is all these people opened up doors to me that I could have never accessed, or it would have taken a lot longer for me to access.

Todd Herman 00:26:30  But the reason they could open up way more high quality doors is because they were the best of the best. And I just think a lot of people, and it's very hard for, I think, the listener nowadays, with so many loud voices on the internet, for them to find really great, high quality mentors, to help shepherd them, you know, to whatever their next plateau is. So that level of discernment has been one thing that I've learned and I think about constantly is, and I think it's just a skill that is not talked often about often enough is is that level of discernment like, who do you allow into your six inches between your ears with thoughts and ideas that are going to, you know, truly help you get to where you want to go. But I just think about mentorship every single day.

Joe Sanok 00:27:19  I mean, how do you attract high quality mentors that are the best in their field? It seems like to me, I'm thinking, you know, most of them probably are charging major consulting hourly.

Joe Sanok 00:27:30  Like, how does that even work to find somebody that wants to help mentor you when you're just getting started or when you're ready to get to that next level? And maybe you don't have a peer group that can get you to that next level.

Todd Herman 00:27:41  Yeah. Well, there's so many different ways to go about doing it, but the, the one thing that, people mistake with the idea of mentorship is it has to be a like a, a 1 to 1, relationship. And it can be completely one way, meaning like Charlie Munger is a great example for me. I never met Charlie Munger in my entire life. You know, he passed away last year, but he's one of the greatest thinkers of the last hundred years. You know, Warren Buffett's, you know, business partner in Berkshire Hathaway. But I consumed so much of his thinking that I absolutely classify him as one of my my mentors. Some of them I did have personal relationships with. So how can you get around some of these people? Well, one.

Todd Herman 00:28:35  Find out where they go. Like what types of events would they be going to, purchase their things? This is one thing that I talk about with another, friend of mine who has a massive platform herself. And, you know, those of us who do have programming that is available, like on the internet, you know, we're always looking for and, Joe, you know this from your own world. We're looking for great testimonials. We're looking for great case studies. So point to that is be a phenomenal student of someone else and then let them know that their words or their ideas or their practical thing that they shared. Changed your life in some way because you know what you're going to get from my team. 100% of the time you're going to get a response, and then some of that time it will filter towards me doing a 15 minute case study video with you. Possibly. But that's just one way of developing relationships with people and nowadays engage with them across social media. I had a lady just reach out to me on LinkedIn.

Todd Herman 00:29:41  Former Olympic athlete competed in two different Olympic Games, and she's just getting into the world of sports performance and mental game work. And she reached out and sent me a lovely message about mentorship. And it's not going to lead towards me doing private stuff with her. But I did give her a couple of avenues of ways to kind of get into my world, let's say, because some of us, we do charge for our time now. But I've had, I'd say, out of the seven mentors that I really count as being critical in my life, there's only one that I paid.

Joe Sanok 00:30:22  Yeah. It's interesting how, especially getting into people's communities and showing that you're not just trying to feed off of people. To me goes so far I think about when I wrote Thursday as the new Friday. so John Lee Dumas has entrepreneurs on fire. his book came out right before mine. We both had the same editor, but like, his podcast is enormous. and I had followed him for years and, like, really didn't have a connection with him.

Joe Sanok 00:30:50  and then he was doing this thing where if you bought 100 books, because, you know, at that time, he was one of the last ones that, you could do these, like, bulk book buys and it would count towards, like, New York Times stuff. but that all has shifted since, if you bought 100 books, bucks, you get to be in this mastermind group with him for like every Friday for like six weeks or something. And so I'm like, you know what? Like I'm going to do it. He already knows that we have the same editor, like same publisher. I'm going to show him that I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. I'm not just going to be like, hey, John, will you endorse my book? Will you do this? Will you do this? and just bought 100 bucks from my community, and it ended up being a bonus for them and then brought him in as an expert into that community. but in that process, met all these amazing people that also were at that level of buying 100 books, and then six of us all met up at Podcast movement for a dinner that John and and his wife hosted.

Joe Sanok 00:31:45  And next thing you know, me and John are hosting like this huge podcaster drink meetup where I said to him, hey man, can can I just pay like the first thousand dollars of drinks for anyone that comes and you just say, hey, I'm hosting this event. and if you feel like saying Joe is paying for it, cool. If not, like, that's cool too. but sure enough, it's like, you know, he hosts this event, says, you know, the fire meet up. And then he's like my friend Joe right here who has Thursday's The New Friday coming out. And then he invites me to all these like private parties. And it was like it wasn't to get to the private party. It wasn't to like, do anything but to say, I support you, John, and I believe in your work, and I want to show you that I'm aligned in some way. Now, some would say I was like buying access, but in other ways it's like I'm not just someone that's emailing him saying, hey man, let's hang out at Podcast movement.

Joe Sanok 00:32:35  He probably gets 1000 of those emails. And I've found that it seems like that investment of that, say, $1,000 into that drink meetup went way farther for the relationship. you know, than any sort of, say, podcast sponsorship or something like that. are those the kind of things that you're talking about in regards to, like aligning, getting around the right people to, to have mentors and connections that level you up?

Todd Herman 00:33:01  Absolutely. absolutely. you know, and and by the way, like, why do we need to bullshit ourselves when it comes to, like, you made the comment about you paying for it and, you know, whether someone perceives that as you buying access, I don't give a shit. I don't, I mean, yeah, that's let's not fool ourselves about how the world does work and that it only works with, this utopian world, like you mean, it's okay. Like, I mean, I get it. I know, I know why some people's motivations are to to pay for sponsorship for some of the things that I do.

Todd Herman 00:33:40  That's that's okay. so, absolutely, that's one of the things I'm talking about with regards to Harvey. when I had started my practice back in the 90s, I was reading as much as I possibly could about, you know, the mental game or the inner game or psychology or sociology or physiology or kinesiology? I was trying to find all these different disciplines to help me become good, because I didn't have experience and there was no school to go to. To navigate the topic categories that I was talking to people about. And so when I came across Harvey's book, I was like, oh my God, he's he has plain speech. He doesn't try to make things more complicated as a, as an athlete myself. His stuff just made sense. So I reached out to him and it was cold. It was like a cold outreach at the end of 2000. and I said, I left him a voicemail and it was hired me. We've never met before, but I have got this fledgling little practice that I've started working with young athletes on the mental game.

Todd Herman 00:34:50  And your book is the first one that's made sense. I have no idea, what you've got going on, but I'm sure you have another book that you have in you. And so I'd like to offer myself to be an assistant to you during the baseball offseason, because he worked in Major League Baseball. He would kind of put himself on a team for a season. And, and so I could do research for you, and now does that what I really wanted to do. Did I want to put myself into the research assistant role or the executive assistant type role? No, of course not. But I knew that being around him, I was going to learn so much. So he called me back two days later and he was like, you don't want to live with the kid, do you? That was his first words. And I said, I don't know. And he lived in North Carolina at the time. I said, no, I'd love to come down. And, you know, again, like, just take care of something administratively for you, just being around you.

Todd Herman 00:35:44  I'm sure I'll learn something. And and I've got an uncle who lived in the area, and now I'm calling from Edmonton, Alberta, where I lived at the time. I did not have an uncle, I lied, I did not have an uncle. There was a motel six Not too far from where he lived, it was $29.50 a night. And that's where I went and stayed. And I went down. I spent 33 days with Harvey. and I maxed out my Scotiabank Visa card because I had a $1,000 limit, and I maxed it out, and I and I mean, yeah, I had a private practice that was doing really well, but I was making very little money. My my profit, my profit margin was extremely low because I would do in-home visits and I was driving around. My biggest cost was my gas money. But again, I had a stamina for this stuff. And I've met people who had way more credentials, letters behind their name than I do. But and this is not ego, it's just reality.

Todd Herman 00:36:38  I will run circles around someone when it comes to peak performance conversations, and being able to dial in exactly what it takes to unleash someone's capabilities. Because I am not someone that's beholden to a bunch of theoretical or evangelical ideas, that some people really glom onto because of the type of schooling that they came through. And I learned that from Harvey. And Harvey really helped me step into the confidence of being very good at being a coach to other people.

Joe Sanok 00:37:09  So awesome. Todd. if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Todd Herman 00:37:17  I would say be a lot more unapologetic. And what I mean by that is if there is an attribute amongst some of the most peak performing people that I've had a chance to be with. When I say peak performing, I mean that means someone who's not only achieving the things that they really want to go out and achieve, but they're enjoying that process at the same time. So they're enjoying their experience. They really have settled into this is who I am, this is how I'm built.

Todd Herman 00:37:47  Like, they're very unapologetic with the way that they go about things. And so I think that some people that are in the the helping space. I find that they apologize a little bit too much about the things that really interest them, and I don't think they need to. Like we need more people who are out there that really don't apologize for the fact that this is the thing I love talking about. This is the thing that I'm fascinated by. And I just encourage people. It's because you got a stamina for it and lean into it way more like lean into the wins. don't be afraid to ruffle feathers. I mean, I've kind of built my career off of being, you know, not afraid to throw punches at bad ideas. and that's because that's that's how I'm built. I'm not telling other people to go and do that, but I would say be very unapologetic in a positive way for what it is that you're interested in, because I think it would change. Not I think I know it changes the way that you now go and attack your world.

Joe Sanok 00:38:45  So awesome. Todd, if people want to, follow you, find out where you're working. Learn from you. Where should we send them?

Todd Herman 00:38:54  Todd. Herman. Me is my home base on the interwebs. And, you know, links to, you know, the book are there. and the other things that I'm involved in. I have a platform called up coach that's, you know, started building a few years ago. That's for people that are in, you know, coaching and, helping space to help them deliver programming and, services to clients. So all those links are at home and so awesome.

Joe Sanok 00:39:18  Thank you so much for being on the show.

Todd Herman 00:39:20  Cheers.

Joe Sanok 00:39:29  You know, as we do this, the show, being in community is something that over and over we hear from our experts that we're interviewing, to be around people in your specialty that you're that are headed in the same direction. you know, I've heard lots of times, and I don't remember who first said it, that, you know, all ships rise, you know, with rising tides.

Joe Sanok 00:39:49  I totally slaughtered that. But you know, the idea that, like, if you're around other people, that are leveling up their game, you're going to level up your game. so get around other people that are leveling up, that are growing their practices. one of the best ways to do that is to head on over to practice the practice membership. that's where our membership is, where we have our three tracks. One is our sustainable solo practice for if you're starting or growing your solo practice. Our second track is our group practice launch. So if you're launching a group practice and then group practice boss, if you are rocking out and growing your group practice, we have communities for you over at Practice of the practice. Com forward slash membership. Thank you so much to alma for being our sponsor today. You know, I wish alma had been around when I had my private practice. I had no idea what I was doing. That's why I didn't take insurance. But if alma had been there, I would have.

Joe Sanok 00:40:43  And there's no reason that as a clinician, you should be spending hours on paperwork to bill for insurance or not, knowing for sure that you'll get reimbursed for sessions with your clients. If you're interested in seeing clients through insurance but don't want to navigate the process and paperwork on your own. Alma can help. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates and a guaranteed payment within two weeks. Visit. Hello, alma. That's. Hello, al Omar to get started. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band. Silence is sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.