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Joe Sanok 00:00:00  You're someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You're also someone who'd prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else's story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Com forward slash. Again, that's practice of the practice. Com forward slash. Apply. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Santos. Session number 1232. I'm Joe, your host, and welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast. You know, we've been doing this high performance mindset, just series, over, you know, every week since.

Joe Sanok 00:01:14  Let's see, let's look back. It was, since like mid-May. so we're doing this for a while. Josh, who has been booking our guests, has been just having such an interesting vision for, you know, doing high performance mindset on one day a week, mindfulness on another, and then productivity on the other. So we're instead of doing series that are like, you know, 12 episodes in a row, we're kind of dripping them out over time. we found that, you know, that that's working a little bit better where, you know, if there's something that you're not is into, you'll still kind of have other things each week that you can listen to. So we have all sorts of things coming up around mindfulness, productivity, that high performance mindset. and, you know, with all of this, you know, sometimes when we think high performance, to me it falls into like kind of grounded people and then people that are just like doing it for the attention. And that's what I love about these people I've been able to introduce you to, is that oftentimes we're talking about people that just had a passion for one reason or another to to do the thing that they want to do, and they're really good at it.

Joe Sanok 00:02:12  They are, you know, ultra athletes, people that go far beyond what the average person can do. And, you know, oftentimes they have just a very kind of guiding light to why they do this, which I'm so excited today, to introduce you to, Carl Meltzer and Carl. I mean, he has the winningest hundred miler trail runner on Earth 50 and 100 mile wins, 75 ultra marathon wins around 175 ultra finishes, 8800 mile finishes 22 years in a row, winning at least 100 mile race the Appalachian Trail fastest run that's 2189 miles in 45 days, 22 hours and 38 minutes. The Pony Express fastest 40 days at 22,161 miles. That was in 2010. I mean, so many just amazing things this guy has done. The 2006 Everest Award winner, 2006 Ultra Runner of the year, North America. I mean, the list goes on and on. Red bull. You know, did a film about him all sorts of just like amazing things. Karl, welcome to the Practice of Practice podcast.

Karl Meltzer 00:03:18  Thanks, Joe, for having me. It's really an honor to come on practice to. It's it's a great. it's always an honor to good on any podcast. You know, when someone says, hey, you've done all these cool things. And I just think to myself, like, it's just what I do. You know? Yeah. Runner, I love it. I focused my world around it when I started running around in the mountains and Wasatch, Wasatch Mountains in Salt Lake, and. And I said, how can I make a career with this? And unbelievably, I made it happen. Yeah. I don't even know how it kind of happened. I just followed my passion and. And now here I am, age 57. talking about it and still. participating. and talking about it to a lot of fans out there and people that come to the sport or young to even just, like you said, the mindset thing. it's an honor to be on and it'd be cool to have a good conversation about it.

Joe Sanok 00:04:09  Yeah. I mean, you know, I've always wanted to do the Appalachian Trail. you know, I was in the Boy Scouts. I, I remember I got my first 50 miler, you know, when I was in, like sixth grade carrying this, like, £40 backpack. And it felt like I, you know, was going to die. And, you know, that's always been something I've wanted to do. I've never thought about the idea of doing it fastest. So let's talk about some of these trail runs like specifically, you know, the Appalachian Trail. Like what did you have to do to mentally prepare for, you know, like these kind of like record breaking feats? Like what? What kept you focused? You know, as you say, doing an Appalachian Trail run.

Karl Meltzer 00:04:44  Well, it was funny when I was with the Appalachian Trail, I grew up in New Hampshire, so I grew up on those New Hampshire rugged trails. New Hampshire and Maine are really hard. it's just real technical.

Karl Meltzer 00:04:53  Rocky. Rudy. Just to give you a little background for some that don't know it. I grew up there. I moved to Utah. I became a runner with the Appalachian Trail. I brought the idea up to a company called backcountry.com, which is a local. Now they're an online retailer. The two guys that owned that company actually were friends of mine that I worked with at Snowbird. So I brought this idea up to them as one of their athletes to to run the at into at the time, to have a blog and show people and have people follow and that kind of thing. And I never thought they would bite on the idea. but they did. And within a few months we started talking about it and planning about it. And to be honest with you, even with my career of winning a lot of hundreds before that and that kind of thing, the At is very different. It requires, you know, the logistics of the crew. And at that time we had an RV and all this stuff.

Karl Meltzer 00:05:42  And and how do you prepare prepare for it for mindset. I mean, it's that's a hard question because at the time I was like, okay, now I have to do 50 miles a day on a hard trail. how do I prepare for that? but ultimately, at the end of the day, when I prepare for something like that, even nowadays, when I run a race, I. I take it with a grain of salt, right? Like, I, we did our logistical stuff. We looked at the planning and all that stuff, and that was a little bit nerve wracking. but at the end of the day, when we're in Maine, the day before we started, it was exciting to see what was what led ahead of me down the trail. You know, I didn't really know what to expect. I didn't know how I was going to feel. I didn't know how well the crew would adapt to finding me in Maine. Maine can be complicated. if you're not very good at logistics.

Karl Meltzer 00:06:31  And at that time, it was a paper map. So. Yeah, you know, you could just look at your phone and say, where is, you know, Dutch Truck? I don't know. It's not.

Joe Sanok 00:06:40  Little apple. one of those little trackers on you like that.

Karl Meltzer 00:06:44  I mean, I had a tracker, but, you know, we lost the tracker one day, and they said, hey, we're we're, you know, where's Carl? So he said, Carl, where's your tracker? It looks like it fell off your shoulder, I don't know. Look on web to find the tracker. It's a tracker, right? Anyway, but preparing for it was really. I was just excitement, you know? I was just like. I can't believe I'm doing this. Who gets to do this stuff? You know, I was like, you know, blessed is not really my favorite word, but I was really fortunate to get the opportunity to do this. And when I was, when that happened, when the when the when we said, okay, let's do it.

Karl Meltzer 00:07:17  You know, it was just excitement. And I started went up mount Katahdin, you know, in Baxter Park and, and I started going and I'm like, okay, this is going to be like, you know, a month and a half of hiking fast and jogging a little bit and trying to get this done. And it was really just excitement. I mean, it's hard to say. It's not like I sat around and thought about it every day. I mean, I did think about it every day, but I didn't really like, think like, how do I approach this? I just said, let's see what's going to happen down the trail, and we'll deal with the issues as you go. And as many ultra runners know, running ultramarathons, especially the longer distances, is how you manage the issues your aches and pains, your soreness, your whatever, your stomach. But in, you know, the 80s, the same thing. How do you handle issues? I mean. Well, we're going to find out.

Karl Meltzer 00:08:02  So we rolled with it. And I can't tell you how much I learned that first time I did it. Looking back. even when I, you know, I failed the first time in 2008 when I tried and after 14 days, I was just injured and I couldn't continue. But I wanted to finish. So I took four days off. And then I ended up finishing the trail in 54 days. And I said, I'm going to learn from this. And I mean the things that I learned, I it's hard to even explain. You know.

Joe Sanok 00:08:29  Take me to that moment. You take four days off and you decide I'm going to finish this anyway. Was it so I can learn so I can do this again? Was it. It's just I want that sense of accomplishment. Like what? What was fueling the not just going home at that point?

Karl Meltzer 00:08:43  Well, I think, you know, to say I went 14 days and failed. And, you know, again, if you're injured, it's fair to say you're injured.

Karl Meltzer 00:08:50  You're fail. Right? I mean, that's that's a fair, fair deal. But I don't like to fail. And I was and I had the opportunity again. The opportunity was there. backcountry.com said, hey, we'll support you if you want to continue on. And that I mean that's that's huge. You know, don't kid me. Don't kid yourself. and I was like, let's let's keep doing what else am I going to do this summer? You know, we're committed to the time. Yeah. we had the opportunity and I said, well, let's just keep cranking out miles and see how we do. And, you know, there was no pressure to break the record because four days off means you fall about 200 miles behind that mysterious guy in front of you. Right? And that's that was, I felt, was too much to make up, which it probably was at the time. So, you know, we go out and we do 42, 43 miles a day on average.

Karl Meltzer 00:09:37  And, you enjoy it a little more because you finish a little bit earlier. but again, it was really about learning. We had a crew come in and out every week. so that made it difficult because the crew didn't really know me that well. so what they so they had a learning curve for three days, then they get it for three days, then they'd go away and the next guy comes in, right? So that was we learned that, that probably wasn't a good idea. You probably want somebody there the whole time. You know, that's just one of the things you learn. And then you've got to find the right people to help you with that. My dad was spectacular every time. Eric Bell, who was the ultimate crew guy in 2014 and 16, you know, he found that they were the right people for me. But that was one thing we learned. I mean, we knew it was hard. We knew the injury potential. We knew. we learned of what to do after every day when I finish, like, instantly.

Karl Meltzer 00:10:30  Sit down, put ice on your shins, eat right away. You know, little things like that. Instead of fumbling around, wasting time, not sleeping. So those were the some of the things that we learned. and then the logistical things of just following that damn paper map, and trying to teach. I'm very good at that. But my crew wasn't great at that to start. but they got better. But at the same time we had to have people like Eric Bell. Once he learned it, it was like even in 2016 it was still generally a paper map was our backup. We had and we used the phone and stuff, but, my name I never carried my phone on the trail, actually. So. Yeah, we learned a lot of things that are that early year, but and going back was with Red bull when they gave you the opportunity again, it was like, you know, at first I didn't want to, but then it was like, yeah, let's, let's do it, but let's do it right this time and do more research and stuff.

Karl Meltzer 00:11:23  So yeah, I mean, I've had great opportunities with all kinds of different things in ultrarunning, and that was definitely the number one on the list.

Joe Sanok 00:11:31  Yeah. Like I want to get in Karl's head and just kind of think about like when you're thinking about attempting the impossible, quote unquote, or that something someone hasn't done, like, how does that idea germinate? Is it just like, oh, I wonder what would happen if I ran across this or like, how does that germinate for you?

Karl Meltzer 00:11:48  Yeah, every year in my ultrarunning career, for the longest time, I always thought like, how do I raise the bar? What do I do next? You know, at first it was like winning. The hard Rock 100 was my first big kind of goal, and I went, I won that in 2001. I'm like, oh, I can, I can do this, you know? Then I won a bunch of hundreds and then I won 600 in 1 year in 2006, and that was the most someone had won in a year.

Karl Meltzer 00:12:10  I'm like, okay, well, I raised the bar there. And then after that I was like, well, now we need to pass. And Teresa, who has 22 wins. Then I passed that. Then I raised the bar there, and then it was like, well, what's next? You know, and I and, and and I couldn't really think of what was next, you know. but then I thought about the at and again, like I said earlier, I didn't think they were going to bite on it, but they bid on it. And that was next. but again, I didn't break the record until 2016, but that was like me. I just always feel like I need to raise the bar, you know? I mean, now now when I'm older, I don't necessarily feel that way, but I but me raising the bar now with my old age, as is finishing 100 hundreds. You know, I have 89 now because I just finished another one. You mentioned 88 to start there, but, yeah, I got another one in the books.

Karl Meltzer 00:12:57  But, that's my next raising the bar goal because we haven't seen a, a real elite athlete like I was back in the day. finish 100 hundreds. So that's just the next thing after that, I don't I don't know what else I can come up with. Yeah, but I think people have that mindset.

Joe Sanok 00:13:13  I think sometimes what I see, and I see this in myself too, obviously in different ways, because I'm not like an ultra athlete, but like that achievement mindset is really beneficial in a lot of ways, but then also a kind of basking in what you've achieved and like not just moving on to the next thing and not always raising the bar for yourself. Like, how do you find that balance of being satisfied with the amazing career you've had and being grateful for that, and then also pushing yourself to try new things? Because I think sometimes that pushing yourself can come from a place of like just a discontent person, you know, and trying to achieve something for maybe something inside or whatever.

Joe Sanok 00:13:51  versus also just like being like, dang, like, look what I just achieved. like, how do you find that balance?

Karl Meltzer 00:13:57  Yeah. I mean, I'm an addict, you know, like, it comes to running. It's I could very easily just step away and be like, okay, my career was fabulous. but I can't I can't do that. You know, I just I feel like I've got to get out every day and do something, and that's how I just keep going and going and going. I do my best to stay uninjured. but I just have that. That mindset is like, I can't sit still, you know? I mean, I like that sense of accomplishment. And every time that I fail, even now, like when I have a bad day out in the trail, I laugh, not really laugh at myself, but I kind of chuckle. I'm like, alright, here's my bad patch. But I always learn how to get out of it. And when you learn how to get out of the pain cave, so to speak, you can do that in all aspects of life.

Karl Meltzer 00:14:43  Doesn't have to be running. It can be anything. whether it's a job or your golf game or whatever, you can always get out of that cave. And I think over the years, ultrarunning has taught me how to get out of that cave. You know, I just you're always going to have a tough time out there. It's not going to. It's always going to hurt. So learning how to get yourself out of that makes you a better person and better at doing things, whatever that may be. At least for me, I hope. I hope that answers the question. it's just, it's it's I'm just. I'm just addicted to it. You know, that sense of accomplishment is is great when I, when I build a little stone wall or I do something that sense of accomplishment. Hey, look at that. It's nice and straight or whatever. You know, it's I, I love that. I, I don't I don't like to sit back and and just watch other people do things.

Karl Meltzer 00:15:32  I have to get involved. And I have to accomplish something to make myself feel satisfied.

Joe Sanok 00:15:38  Yeah. And so I'm hearing just sort of like a, like I have to, you know, like, I interviewed, Fiona Oaks, which I'm not sure exactly when we released her episode. You know, she's got world records on. You know, I think the seven continents, you know, of doing a marathon and then also the North Pole and, like, wow, she's done these, like, crazy things. But for her, it's all like giving exposure to just animal suffering. And like, she's like, I have to I have to do this. Like, it just compels her so much. So I'm hearing that. But I'm also hearing a lot, around. Just like allowing suffering. So. So tell me about that kind of mental side of suffering when you're in the midst of it, like you said, that the dark cave. Like, what techniques do you use? Like how do you get through it, like, or do you just get through it like, like maybe you don't even think through it.

Joe Sanok 00:16:25  like how how do you do the mental side and the physical side when that much pain is going on for you?

Karl Meltzer 00:16:31  I mean, I, I tell myself, you know, and even if this last hundred that I ran just blink and it'll be over, right? Like I've driven across the country. A number of times. And that's a long drive. When you start your day out, you're like, I'm going to drive 15 hours today. I'm going to sleep in my car. I'm going to get up. I'm going to drive 15 tomorrow. It's a long ways, and it may take two and a half days for me to get back to New Hampshire. But I tell myself, you know, just blink. It'll be over in May. And for some reason, that signal is okay. Karl. You're fine. but then it is over. You know, like, I just went to California. I ran 100 miles, I drove back, I got stuck in traffic. All these things happened, and I'm here.

Karl Meltzer 00:17:06  I am, and I'm back. I'm back here. It's. It's Thursday afternoon, and I've been home for five, 4 or 5 days already. But it is. It's just like I have a just blank attitude of of life in general. I mean, I can remember days when I in the 80s and in the 90s when I said, man, 2020 so far away, you know, I mean, I'm sure you can think about that too and say, man, yesterday that I was a ski bum at Snowbird, busting tables at the keyhole and skiing all day in powder and stuff, and all of a sudden, here you are 35 years later. Poof.

Joe Sanok 00:17:41  Yeah. I mean, I hear bands that came out in college and I'm like, they still sound like a new cool sound. And I'm like, God, that's like 20 years old.

Karl Meltzer 00:17:47  20.

Joe Sanok 00:17:47  Years. It's like, yeah, the Postal Service just came out. It's like, no nonsense there.

Karl Meltzer 00:17:53  And that's how I tell myself in these ultras, is that when I'm having a bad patch or something, I'm slow and I'm only at mile 30.

Karl Meltzer 00:17:58  I don't feel so good. I just say just, you know, just keep walking forward. It'll, you know, just blink, it'll be over. And and all of a sudden, like, you know, 4 or 5 p.m. comes along, it cools down, it gets a little nicer sometimes I'll look forward to, like in an ultra. If it's hot, it's one stage, 1 p.m. or something. I just tell myself, hey, at 530 it's going to start to cool. You know, the sun gets low or whatever. And so I focus on getting to 530 and then like, okay, thank God it's cooler, you know, and then everything gets a little bit better because it's cooler. But sometimes you focus it in pieces. We tell people to run ultras, you know, aid station to aid station. let's focus your life in pieces. But. But it is. It's just about like, how fast does it really go? And I'm sitting here talking to you now.

Karl Meltzer 00:18:44  I'm age 57, and I. And if I make it to age 70, I'll remember this and I'll be like, oh, yeah, I just said to Joe, I'm 57 and poof, I'm 70. You know, that's going to come quick. I mean, don't feel oh, yeah, it's life. And I think you got to treat it, sort of like one day at a time. You know, I've never been the kind of guy that is worried about his retirement. I mean, I don't I'm living in that. I'm living the now time, you know, as opposed to as opposed to waiting for my retirement fund to mature or whatever the hell that is. You know, I just I'm not worried about that. I want to live now. And as far as, like, you know, again, getting out of that bad patch, it's just knowing that it will be over soon enough. And if you walk out, you drop out now, you know you're going to be disappointed in yourself.

Karl Meltzer 00:19:35  It's always standard and sometimes I mean, I've DNF 14 times at 100 miles, so I've done that for a number of times. But when a DNF had at that 100 hundreds, I could be done. But but, you know, I always regret those times, even if it even if you were injured, I mean, most of the races I dropped out because we just say I was I was just a wuss, you know? And it's like I dropped out. Those those are no good. so you got to talk yourself through it. And I think the more that I have done so many of them that I'm not intimidated, I can talk myself through it at any time, you know, as long as I'm not injured.

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Karl Meltzer 00:21:43  Man, I it's it's crazy how my life, has moved forward. So. A quick brief that, you know, you probably don't know is I, I was graduated high school 86. I dropped out of college in 88, that I moved to Utah to be a ski bomb. And those minimal conversations I had with Andrew Tonelli, a friend of mine at Plymouth State College that said, let's go to big Sky and ski next year. that changed my life. You know, like I don't if I'd never met Andy or that idea never came to us, I never probably would have moved out west. Which means I probably wouldn't be living on the East Coast. Probably live in Vermont or northern New Hampshire, maybe, but very, very different. I may not even have been a mountain runner. I probably, I'm sure I would have liked a lot because I love it, but, those things I've been really lucky to, you know, to hook up with Hoka. That was like a random total random phone call, you know? But I'm really lucky to be where I'm at.

Karl Meltzer 00:22:45  I've made a decent living for myself. I have my own shoe. I mean, that's, like, ridiculous. You know who has that besides Jordan or someone else?

Joe Sanok 00:22:53  Yeah. That's incredible.

Karl Meltzer 00:22:54  It's incredible.

Joe Sanok 00:22:55  You get. Did you get to design the shoe or like, have input on.

Karl Meltzer 00:22:57  That part of the process? I mean, I'm not a shoe designer, right? I mean, I can only throw in what I my $0.02. Yeah. Sometimes it's only worth half a penny. But at the same time, like, those I've been really lucky to have that. And all I can do is embrace it, you know? And I'm just going to keep living my life and the way I want to. And, hopefully I don't run out of, run out of ideas, you know?

Joe Sanok 00:23:21  Yeah. So tell me a little bit more about kind of the mental or mental health side of these ultra runs, because, you know, a lot of our listeners are therapists. And so they always like love to hear like like where is there overlap? Like, are there things that running has helped you overcome or has helped you work through or like, you know, even just thinking about spending a hundred miles kind of with your own self for the most part, like there's got to be some kind of sorting out of your life that goes on in there.

Joe Sanok 00:23:48  Tell me about just like the mental side of some of that.

Karl Meltzer 00:23:51  Well, you think about you think about all kinds of things out there. It could I mean, it could be anything. You know, it could be the master's wish weekend, or you could be thinking about the next tree you're going to cut down on your backyard. You know, those those those thoughts go through your head all the time. And I and I think, like trying to stay positive about just about anything you do is is obviously very important when you start getting negative. You know, it just goes down the tube. but I always try to put a positive swing on things. for the most part, I can also be a grump and negative like most people too. But, staying positive with almost anything that you do, I think is going to make you a better person and not just for yourself, but for others too. be nice to others, you know, things like that. I just I've learned that just throw away the stupid negative thoughts.

Karl Meltzer 00:24:41  Like if I get in an argument with someone, I generally will, you know, if I just walk away, I'm like, I'm, you know, this isn't worth my time. I just would rather be walking around the woods or something. I, I, I just get away from the negative stuff and just stay positive in most cases. And that's, that's how I've been able to, like, deal with my life. When bad things happen. I mean, shit happens, right? And you can't if it's in the past, you can't. It's uncontrollable. So a lot of things have happened in the past that I'm like, well, we can't control that. So let's just move forward and try to deal with what we have. And that's how my life has been like that all my entire life has been like that. I think too many people worry about what happened in the past, but you can't change it. And, you know, then they stress out, worried about this or that, or how do I make it better? And you learn from mistakes, but you can't really change what happened.

Karl Meltzer 00:25:31  So I just try to like, move forward, go to the next step, you know, go to the next stone for the wall. Find something else.

Joe Sanok 00:25:38  Yeah. I mean, that sounds a lot like, Michael Singer, he wrote a book called The Untethered Soul, and he talks about in kind of mindfulness work, how there's two areas that can really help you work on that. And one's the weather and one's traffic. Yeah. And even recently, my, my sister and I were talking, and, you know, we live in northern Michigan. We choose to live here. there's a lot great about it. and at the time of this recording, it's April. I know it's releasing in July. but Michigan always gets snow in April, and it always gets sunny 70 degree days. And so it's like, you know, we literally had my daughter was in shorts, went to school, it was like 70 degrees. And the next day there was an ice storm and like two inches of snow.

Joe Sanok 00:26:19  And it's like so many people, as I walk my kids to school, they're like, oh, can you believe this? And it's just like Michael Singer talks about how it's such a mindfulness exercise to realise you have absolutely no control over the weather. Like, you know, it's like you choose to go camping this weekend and it rains. Okay, like you then have a choice to stay home or camping or embrace it and like say, oh, you know, we're gonna dress for the weather, whatever. same with traffic that like that, our version of how someone should drive, like we're putting on other people and you know, so he uses that as an analogy of like, hey, like, yeah, you don't have control over other people. They do dumb stuff all the time. and like, you can embrace that. You can fight that. You can take a different street if you don't like it. So busy. So. Yeah. So I love what you're saying about the like, you know, walking away from fights, not getting as involved in kind of the drama of the world with people where it's just like, this isn't worth my energy.

Karl Meltzer 00:27:09  Yeah. I mean, it's I can't tell you how many times like, it's I just walked away from stupid, stupid crap like, this isn't worth my time, you know? Yeah. Life is. Life is too short for to get in a mess or an argument. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Sanok 00:27:26  How does your, like when you think about kind of your rituals, it could be around running, but also just like life rituals, like, how do you structure your life in a way that keeps giving you meaning, keeps giving you time to run, like all these things? Like what? What's the pattern of your life look like?

Karl Meltzer 00:27:41  Yeah. I mean, typically I get my run in every day. That's the most important thing to me, right? Like, I always run in the morning, and that's just like, if I do that, I get that out of the way. Then I feel like I've accomplished, you know, step one or whatever. and then I'll generally focus on, or I'll think about, I mean, I coach people, right? So I tell a lot of people, I, you know, I'm dealing with that all during the day, and that's totally cool because I'm helping people become better runners, hopefully in theory.

Karl Meltzer 00:28:09  you know, and then I just in my evenings, I just kind of do what I want to do. And a lot of times it's, I like doing landscaping things, outdoor things. So I stay outside and I stay engaged in that. I don't sit in front of the TV until the very end of the night, probably. I stay engaged with doing things that I like to do, and if I don't, if I don't do that, my structure is I'm all over the place. If I'm forced to go somewhere for a weekend, to travel, somewhere to go for a weekend, and I really don't want to go. Unfortunately, Carl becomes a bit of a grump. I have, I have my own patterns. I think we all have our own patterns of how we, how we do life. And for me, I just try to make sure that that pattern revolves around. I mean, I don't mean I sound selfish, but it revolves around me and like how I, how I enjoy my day.

Karl Meltzer 00:28:56  And then that's that's maybe step two. And then, you know, step three is just like I deal with the rest. But it's that run and like planning my day of like I want to be I want to enjoy my day whatever it might be. I work around a lot of things to get my fun stuff in and that makes me a happier person. but I don't I can't imagine, I honestly can't imagine myself, having to go to work at a, at an whether it's an office or wherever. to work for someone else is at this point in my career is would be hard.

Joe Sanok 00:29:32  Yeah, I hear that.

Karl Meltzer 00:29:33  I, you know, I punching the clock, I don't know, after you've been able to do it without that, it's being possible. But, you know, I mean, I just try to do happy things during the day and and don't don't screw things up and, try to keep my relationships good. Yeah. And just be happy with life.

Joe Sanok 00:29:52  Now, I think a lot of people are guided by kind of shoulds like, I should do this as a parent.

Joe Sanok 00:29:57  I should do this as a engaged citizen. I should do this whatever the should is. how would you challenge that? how would you maybe help them think differently about that?

Karl Meltzer 00:30:08  Well, there's nothing wrong with, with, you know, doing something for your community and all that. I don't think anybody should have to do that or anything, but it's like you said, we all have our mindset. Like some people say, well, God, this is what I feel like I should do. You know, like the woman who said who did the marathons? she felt like that's what she should do. Then do it. That makes. That's what makes you happy, right? That makes you happy to do it. but at the same time, like, I think, like, again, life is short, so it's like, you still want to make yourself. You still want to be happy with yourself. You know, like doing, like, I spend a lot of time alone, fumbling around my house and doing stuff.

Karl Meltzer 00:30:45  I love that because it's just my own time. You've got to have your own time. I mean, it's important to help others and to. I mean, I don't have kids either, so, you know, I'm a little biased without kids because that would be an entirely different world. obviously. so I do I'm a little selfish with myself, but I just think, like, we need to have our own time, and if we don't, then it's, you know, then what is life really for? I mean, I don't know. That's just how I am. I know some people may disagree, but that's okay. but I'm. But I'm I'm always that. I'm always the person to. or I am the person that will help others to. I'm not someone that's selfish that so I'm not going to help you or I'm not going to help. You know, like in a race, if someone drops your water bottle in front of me, I'll probably pick it. Simple things, but I'll pick it up for him, you know, and I'll open the door for somebody.

Karl Meltzer 00:31:33  I'm. I'm like that, you know? but you got to. I mean, I don't know, you live once. You got to think of yourself sometimes it's just that's just how it is, how I am. And.

Joe Sanok 00:31:45  Yeah, it's like, this this weekend. I have a friend who. She's having a birthday party. It's her birthday, and she's doing, like, this paddle board thing, and then they're going out dancing, and she's a good friend of mine. Yeah. And it's like, But my kids are gone this weekend. My partner is gone this weekend, and I have the house to myself for like 24 hours for the first time in, like, I don't I don't even remember when. And I'm like, seriously? I feel like just like emptying out drawers and organizing them and purging crap from my house that has accumulated like that just sounds more fun to me. But then, like, my other side is like, good friends go paddleboarding and good friends do. And it's like, no, like.

Joe Sanok 00:32:21  And I texted her actually right before this and just said, man, I would love to come, but it's the first time that, you know, I'll have 24 hours to have like the house completely to myself and have quiet. She's like, that's so important to like, she didn't care. She's like, good for you. Like well done. and.

Karl Meltzer 00:32:34  I think that's how it is. You know, that's it's. That would be me too. Like, yeah, I finally get this time to do this, but then I can't because I'm. Because I should should do this, right? Yeah. That that's a great example you just had right there. it's just for me. I mean, if I was free all the time, and once in a while. Sure, I'll go to the paddle board. I'll do that. But but it's like like you said, when you're busy all the time, and also then you get that 24 hours, it's like. It's like a vacation pass, you know?

Joe Sanok 00:33:02  It's like, oh, I can just like, do laundry and do whatever I want.

Joe Sanok 00:33:05  For 24 hours, it's like, even though it's like chores, for the most part, I just know I'm going to feel so much better having just, like, reset the house and done that for myself. I'm wondering when people are dealing with their own challenges, either physical or emotional or like. You know, in their businesses. Like what advice do you have for them in regards to how to handle that based on what you've learned from ultra running?

Karl Meltzer 00:33:27  Well, I you know, kind of a it's kind of a little bit already, but just you have to keep your mindset of like, it's hard to explain, but have take one step at a time. you know, do what you got to do with your work and your mindset and stuff, like, but once you once you leave and and go home or whatever, turn it off, you know, don't go home and go. I can't tell, like working in a restaurant at Snowbird. I mean, all we do when we go home is bitch about the people we waited on.

Karl Meltzer 00:33:56  turn that off. you know, have your time for your work and have your time for your home. I don't know if that kind of answers the question a little bit. I'm on a string, but you just gotta, I don't know, just just be yourself. I don't know if that makes sense.

Joe Sanok 00:34:11  So awesome. Carl. The last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now. What would you want him to know?

Karl Meltzer 00:34:18  Hundred miles is not that far. That's where they're running. That's where they're running clients. no, but I mean, I think I mean so much more. any type of practitioner like that would have so much more knowledge of, you know, the mindset stuff. And I get that. But really realistically is that I personally take life with a grain of salt and I it can end in any moment. So live first dilator has been a pretty common word I like to use, you know, work to live, don't live to work.

Karl Meltzer 00:34:53  Those are simple things that you've heard before, I'm sure. But those are those really ring true to me because, it keeps me focused on not just doing what I should do. You know, like, I like using that word now, but I like to do what I want to do is like, know all what I do, what I want to do. So, I mean, for all of those out there, just have to understand, even when they talk to some clients that have problems, it's just like, listen, you know, like life is what it is. You can't change again, you can't change what's behind you. Go forward and try to stay positive. And that's the most important thing with people is is the positivity you get in traffic. Like you said, what are you going to do? You need to pull over and take a rest at the stop, like I did on my way home from California in the traffic, or you just deal with it and just blink and it'll be over.

Joe Sanok 00:35:41  Such great advice, Carl. If people want to follow you, where should we send them?

Karl Meltzer 00:35:46  my website, Carl. Monster.com is currently basically under construction, so visit that in a little bit. there'll be some cool stuff on there. my Instagram handle is at Meltzer Carl, and, I participate more on Facebook because I'm old. So awesome. but you, you know, Facebook's Carl Meltzer, and. Yeah, and Twitter too, and or extra whatever. but yeah, I just follow me a little bit and check out I mean, I'm getting close to 100 hundreds, so I mean, hook is still behind me. My Ultra spire, my first endurance and dry Max are all still behind me, which is pretty amazing. being an old man. even though I'm slow. But, those. They've been really fantastic. And they've really driven my career, too. which also motivates me. You know, everybody everybody fires me. Then it's like, I guess I'll just go keep cutting branches outside.

Karl Meltzer 00:36:33  So anyway, thankful to all those awesome stuff. It's been a great life.

Joe Sanok 00:36:38  Well, we'll have links to all that in the show notes as well. Karl, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Karl Meltzer 00:36:43  Yeah. Thanks, Joe. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.

Joe Sanok 00:36:53  So, you know, it's it's things like this that, just really motivate me to just think differently, and, and, you know, just see how we can learn lessons from people that are so far outside of our field and that ultimately, we're all humans living life. We're all humans that are trying new things and we're all trying all sorts of other things. So thanks so much for listening to this show today. You know, we also couldn't do this show without amazing sponsors like Therapy notes. Therapy notes is the best electronic health records out there. They will help you switch over from your current EHR. They also give you two months for free or just money off if you use promo code Joe at checkout.

Joe Sanok 00:37:30  They are phenomenal. They help with automated billing. It's going to make it easier to outsource your billing. So many reasons to switch to therapy notes. Just head on over to Therapy notes. Com read about it and at checkout just use promo code. Joe. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band. Silence is sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.