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Joe Sanok 00:01:10 This is the practice of the. Joe Sanok 00:01:12 Practice podcast with. Joe Sanok 00:01:13 Joe Sam. Accession number 1079. Joe Sanok 00:01:21 I’m Joe Sam, like your host. And welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast. If you are not leveling up right now, shame on you. Right now is the time to level up. It is Level Up week. We are doing 16 webinars this week all about solo practice, starting a group practice, and growing your group practice. And our communities are open. We only open these twice a year, so next level practice is the community that is for you if you are in solo practice. We have hundreds of other therapists that you get to hang out with. We have weekly meetings that we’re doing live where you get to dig in and ask questions and say, hey, I’m stuck. It’s sort of like consulting, but you’re in a smaller group so you’re not paying the really high, you know, 1000, you know, $2,000 a month that you’d be paying for consulting, but getting a lot of help at that phase. We also have group practice launch, which is for solo practitioners that are just bursting at the seams, or they see the opportunity to start a group practice. Joe Sanok 00:02:16 So maybe you’re having people call and they’re saying, hey, I want to see a child therapist on the weekend. And you’re like, I don’t see kids, nor do I work on the weekend, but boy, I really should hire someone to do that. If that’s you, group practice launch is for you, and group practice boss is for anyone that has hired their first clinician. So you might just be super early on. You might have 50. We have tons of group practice bosses that are hanging out, going through the courses, doing live meetings, live trainings, so many things, all for under $200 a month. Depending on which program you’re in, it’s all around $200 a month. I think we have a big deal going on for Level Up week. I want to say it’s 129 a month for next level practice. It might be 149. I really should have that in front of me if I was had like planned ahead to market and pitch to you, but I didn’t. I’m going off the top of my head about these awesome communities of people. Joe Sanok 00:03:09 so that’s open right now over at practice, the practice.com/level up. Now, many of you know that I am a single dad I’m raising my daughters have about 85% custody depending on you know, when their mom is around. And even before I got divorced, I was really interested in just knowing how to be a good father of daughters. When as soon as I knew I was having a daughter with my oldest, who’s now 13. I read the book Cinderella Ate My Daughter. I read this other book. it was, I think, Sex and Girls. I remember I was reading that, on an airplane once and was getting these weird looks, and I’m like, wait, what? And then I realized I have this book about, like, sex and girls. That is about like, body image and like all these things. But just the title, people kind of gave me some interesting looks as I was reading that on an airplane. but to me, it’s one of those things that to even shift, like in my family of origin, it was, you know, we are a hugging family. Joe Sanok 00:04:10 Polish Catholic and my dad’s side, very, like white Protestant on the other side, but still huggers. and hugging was like this thing that we just all did. And then I remember my brother in law, who married my sister, came into the family. He’s like, you guys hug each other, like, at every like I’ve seen you three times today. I don’t need a hug every time. And at first I was sort of like, offended by it. But then I’m like, well, I guess, you know, that’s his body. And then when I had a kid, it was like, wait, I’m teaching this daughter to hug people when she doesn’t want to. Now there’s an acknowledgement of, say, her grandma or her grandpa. Like, you need to give a high five, a fist bump, a wave, something courteous. But I’m not going to force you to go against what your body is saying. To then train you that if another person wants your body, you have to do it. Joe Sanok 00:04:58 And so these really that kind of changes in my parenting that just came through educating myself and learning more, was has been really important to me. And that’s why I love having guests like our current guest today, Doctor Charlotte Marquis is a PhD that’s also a professor of psychology and chair of the health sciences department at Rutgers University. Doctor Markey received her doctorate in psychology from University of California and began conducting research on eating behavior and body image over 25 years ago. She has published over 100 book chapters and articles in peer reviewed journals. The Body Image Book for girls, Love Yourself and Grow Up Fearless was published in 2020 and also has the Body Image Boy for Body Image Book for boys, which came out in 2022. So which that’s the only book on body image for boys. So she’s written a ton of books, done a ton of work. Charlotte, welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:05:53 Thank you so much for having me here. Joe Sanok 00:05:55 Yeah, sorry I fumbled through a little bit of your book title there, but maybe part of it is that, you know, you said that’s the first body image book for boys. Joe Sanok 00:06:04 I can’t wait to dig into all of this and to talk body image and to talk about your specialty areas. So welcome to the show. Glad you’re here. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:06:11 Yeah. Joe Sanok 00:06:11 Thank you. Well, let’s just start with, kind of the problem. Like if we think back to maybe how, like, our parents were raised. So, you know, baby boomers, you know, depending on the age of people, could be, you know, older Gen Xers. So those people kind of raised in 50, 60, 70, like what? What’s the problem with how body image was then? And then maybe we can fast forward to children of the 80s and 90s, like a lot of our listeners are. And like, how did that shift? But then also where were there holes in how we think and talk about body image? Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:06:44 Well, we really don’t have any body image search until about the 80s. So when we go back before about the 80s, we’re looking at just sort of historical accounts of how people talked about their bodies and physical activity and eating behaviors. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:07:01 And there’s definitely been some trends, and just our lifetimes in terms of how we understand these things and how we think about them. And I want to say, too, at the outset that most people, whether it be your parents or your providers or your therapists are are trying to be supportive when it comes to these issues. I think I think we want to give people the benefit of the doubt. And yet oftentimes what we know now from research is that all those people that love and care for us and are trying to do what’s right for us, or in our case, us as the parents or the therapists, are doing actually the exact opposite of what they should be doing. Joe Sanok 00:07:43 no. When you say the exact opposite, like, what should they be doing? Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:07:48 Well, it may not seem counterintuitive, but it’s really important for young people growing up to feel really supported by their parents when it comes to their body image and eating behaviors, and to not feel like they’re getting any kind of negative feedback. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:08:06 And I think, you know, as parents or providers, we like to think, oh, well, duh, of course I’m doing that. But we we don’t always think about all the little interactions you have, on the day to day basis and how you might be sending negative messages about these really personal and confusing issues, especially among young people. Joe Sanok 00:08:30 so when you think about confusing issues or confusing ways, you know, parents are talking to their kids like, you know, I have two daughters, they’re nine and 13. what might I be inadvertently saying to them? what should I be saying? Like, help me be a better dad? Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:08:46 Yeah, this is my favorite thing to do. I love to talk about this from a parenting angle, because I think I’ve been really conscious about my own parenting. I have a 17 and a 19 year old, and I’m sure I’ve messed it up many, many times along the way, but I’ve been really conscious to do essentially the opposite of what I think my parents did, and what a lot of, other parents of their generation did. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:09:12 so if you’re saying things like, are you really hungry now? Do you really need to eat that? Are you leaving the house wearing that? these are all things that your kids are going to pick up pretty quickly to mean you don’t approve. And, and it may just be something that comes out. You may not really mean a lot by it, but I have kids that then a decade or two decades later, as adults will tell me, I still remember that time my dad looked at me and said, are you leaving the house wearing that? Joe Sanok 00:09:46 so what kind of, internal dialogue happens when when there are those kind of things said to children? Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:09:54 I think the internal dialogue that transpires is oftentimes I already felt kind of not sure about maybe this ensemble I’ve put together for myself. I’m already feeling sort of insecure. I already really want to feel accepted by my friends I’m going out to spend time with right now, and now someone who’s really close to me just made me question if I had made right choices about maybe my clothing or my hair or whatever it may be. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:10:24 All of these things we know as adults are really not important, but oftentimes in the lives of young people, they feel very important. Joe Sanok 00:10:36 Yeah I like that idea of thinking about my Daughters like the process that went into them choosing their outfit or choosing, you know, that that that’s a they’ve been making choices along the way and that if it’s like, wait, why are you wearing that? it’s like not just questioning the outfit, but it’s questioning their judgment. It’s questioning their ability to make choices. Now, what what would you say that parents should do instead? Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:11:03 Well, it’s tricky, right? Because when we look at our kids, we see them. So if they have some, you know, what we think is some crazy outfit for whatever reason, right? It’s it’s skimpy or it’s all black or it feels inappropriate or it’s just different than what they usually wear. Right? We notice these things because it’s very visual. How can you not notice these things? and, and I don’t ever say to parents like never comment. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:11:29 Right. I do think that some body image scientists will say, just stop commenting on appearance altogether. And I appreciate why many offer that advice, but I feel like it’s incredibly unrealistic, because it’s very natural to make comments about what’s visually in front of us. I think that what we have to do sometimes is kind of bite our tongue literally and say, oh, you know, is that new? Or oh, or, you know, offer something kind of positive or more neutral in terms of feedback and, and then leave it alone. Right. And so we don’t have to make it a big deal. and I see this, I guess probably more with my daughter than my son, to be honest. But she makes, you know, fashion and physical choices all the time that I wouldn’t necessarily agree with. And I’m tempted to be like, well, why are you doing that? you know, on a regular basis. And the last thing I want is for her to internalize the thoughts that I have, because what do I know? I’m an adult. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:12:32 I’m not like I’m in and hip and cool and know what the trends are anyways, so I tried to not to say those things right. I just try to be supportive or positive and say, oh, that’s interesting, or oh, that’s new or you know, you look great or whatever, and try not to belabor it and try to focus on conversation about other topics. And by doing so, then try to suggest to, you know, my daughter that like, yeah, her parents is just, you know, it’s only one piece of who she is and it can be fun, but there’s just more to her. Joe Sanok 00:13:06 Yeah. You know, this last weekend was my parent’s 50th anniversary, and they had a big party and tons of people flew in. And like, my dad’s the oldest of five kids. And then, you know, all those siblings came, plus their spouses, plus a lot of the cousins and then friends and family, all that were in town for the last week. And on Friday night, my uncle, his wife, Aunt Mary, she was celebrating her birthday. Joe Sanok 00:13:30 So he put together this, kind of table that we were all going to go out to this one restaurant. It’s not a super fancy restaurant, but it also was a little bit nicer. It was a nicer event. And so earlier in the day, I had said to my girls, like, you know, you don’t have to like, wear a dress. I know you guys both don’t really love dresses, but can you just, like, be a little bit more dressed up? Because I think they had, like, their ripped jeans, shorts on, just like playing for the day on a Friday. And it became this, like big thing with my 13 year old where she’s like, I should be able to wear what I want. And I mean, clearly she was just kind of exercising her version of independence. and, you know, I said, this is a situation where, you know, out of respect for Aunt Mary, we’re going to kind of wear what most people have on there. Joe Sanok 00:14:12 And so she wore just something that was just kind of very neutral. It wasn’t super dressed up, but it wasn’t the ripped jeans. But then on Saturday, when it was my parent’s 50th anniversary party in the middle of the day, you know, it’s, it’s a middle of the day in the summer, all that kind of thing. and I was like, I am not going to push this again. Like, it’s just like, I don’t. I got in huge fights with my dad over me. I had a ponytail for a while in high school and had, you know, in the 90s when people would carve stuff in their hair that’s coming back for some reason. Like he hated that and it was just like, ridiculous. I’m like, I’m a straight-A student. I don’t care if I dress like a snowboarder because I am a snowboarder. And it was like these big fights. I’m like, I don’t want that dynamic with my daughter. So I let her wear whatever she wanted to the party. Joe Sanok 00:14:54 Well, she had her ripped jeans and her favorite band stick figure. She had that like band shirt on and like almost everyone else, was like, pretty dressed up, like my sister’s family. All, like, had, like, this coordinating, ridiculous kind of outfit thing going on. you know, my brother and his son were kind of dressed up with collared shirts. And when we got home, she said, you know, I wish I had known people were going to be that dressed up. I wouldn’t have worn what I wore. And for me, and I would love your feedback on this so you can poke holes in it and be like, here’s how you can be a better dad. for me, it was helpful for her to learn through experience what it feels like to not get dressed up when other people are dressed up and that it’s not dead, just being over the top, like, let’s get fancy. It’s, you know, there’s certain occasions that you should get dressed up if you showed up at a wedding or a funeral and you’re in like, ripped shorts and stuff, you might feel out of place. Joe Sanok 00:15:46 And do you want to feel that way? and, you know, I realize I could have probably communicated better to just say, hey, just so you know, like, people are going to be pretty dressed up at this thing, or maybe you dressed up, do you want to bring an outfit to change into, if you notice that? so I realize that, but like, are there any things, like in regards to daughters, that you would say, here’s something else you could have done. I would have changed how you worded that. basically, I’m seeking either validation or a way to grow as a dad. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:16:14 I think I can offer mostly validation here. I think that, in your situation, I would have probably done the exact same thing. Right? Like, you kind of decided you were going to fight the fight a little bit on the first night, and you tried to, you know, Nudge in the direction of what was you thought going to be kind of socially acceptable for the evening? And then you’re like, you know what? It doesn’t really matter that much. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:16:37 So I don’t want to do this again. I’m not going to like, like you said, have that relationship you had with your parents. Why argue about this when it’s just does not matter that much. And, you know, I think your reflection then I love the idea of just offering the possibility of like, listen, you know, I don’t care what you wear. Some people are going to be dressed up, I think, do you want me or do you want to like throw a dress or something in the car just in case you’re hot or you feel out of place? You don’t have to, you know, like. Yeah. And then just, you know, let it play out. Because like you said, we all do learn from experience. And these are not necessarily, I don’t think, damaging experiences. Right. As long as no one was making fun of what you were or bullying her about it, then, you know there’s really no harm. And sometimes wearing the wrong thing. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:17:30 We’ve all done that, and I think that it’s good then to also appreciate that, hey, you can wear the quote unquote wrong thing. And that doesn’t mean people don’t love you or don’t appreciate you. Right? Like you do have freedom and making choices about your appearance. Joe Sanok 00:17:48 In some ways I feel like when she turned 13 I like fell off a cliff. Like things did not slowly ease into the next phase. Like when, when their babies, it’s like they crawl and that takes you know a few months and then they finally like hold on to a table and you’re like, oh, they’re going to be walking soon. And but it was like literally overnight. Like she used to be a kid that even on the weekends would wake up at 7 a.m., 8 a.m. and it was like two the day on her birthday, she just, like all of a sudden is sleeping until like 11 a.m. and we went on a trip together this summer and it’s like, you know, we’re sitting at the airport and she’s eating her yogurt and fruit. Joe Sanok 00:18:23 And I didn’t say, like, make a healthy choice or any like silly things like that. It’s just like she likes that and she’s reading her book and just like, hanging out, like, more as an adult than as a kid. And I’m watching these parents, like, chase all their kids around. And my daughter is just like, there. And it feels like, oh my gosh, like, this happened really fast. And in that, I feel like there’s also all these influences that are way outside of anything I have any control or even illusion of control over. and I think that’s for a lot of parents. What can be scary is these body image things that, you know, people marketing to her through influencers or through YouTube or she’s not on social media. that’s something we’re going to hold off until I think, hopefully till she’s 16. We’ll see. I don’t know why. 16 I heard someone say that once and I thought, well, we’ll try. but, you know, there’s all these things that are outside of a parent’s control. Joe Sanok 00:19:22 Do you often find yourself overwhelmed by the influx of client calls you receive. Receptionists are expensive, but you can’t afford to let your patients go to voicemail. You care for your clients, so you try to phone them back. But more often than not, it’s too late. They’ve gone to another practice. When you partner with well-received, you capture every opportunity. Your calls are answered by professional medical receptionists 24 over seven, and they can support you with more than just messaging. They offer new patient intake, after hours service, bilingual services, medical appointment scheduling, medical live chat, and so much more. All this at a fraction of the cost of an in-house receptionist. Your patients are well received priority as a practice of the practice listener. You can get an exclusive 50% off your first two months of service. Head on over to well received. Com forward slash Joe to start growing your practice today. I guess. Let’s start with what should the posture be in realizing that? Like, how do we like, think through all these things that are outside of our control in regards to wanting to build positive body images in our kids? Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:20:35 Yeah, it’s a big question. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:20:36 And I was actually just working on revising the Body Image book for girls today will have a new edition out in about a year. And, I was actually revising the section on clothing choices because parents ask me about this all the time. So sticking with that theme for just a moment more. I think that it is really valuable to appreciate that there are all these other influences. We can’t totally control what’s going on here. Right? And parenting is incredibly humbling. And then when these kids start to exert their own opinions about things, right, it’s like you can remember dressing them and maybe little matching dresses or there was no conversation, right? They just wore what you told them to. And then all of a sudden, they’re exerting their sense of independence and identity by by picking these things out on their own. And a lot of times our reaction has a lot to do with that. It’s not about the clothes, it’s about I don’t have control over this anymore. These kids have their own ideas and they’re tuned into other pieces of culture, whether it be their friends or, you know, like you said, influencers or other forms of media. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:21:53 And those things are having significantly more impact, and that’s developmentally appropriate. And what tends to happen? Parents start to have lesser impact as kids transcend through the adolescent years, and kids start to engage with other people outside their families a lot more. and so we have to, I think, be really careful not to try to exert control, whether it be about clothes or food or whatever. because a lot of times it is this knee jerk reaction to like, wow, this is happening fast. I’m not ready for this as a parent. And how do I keep my kids safe? Right. So there’s a lot going on psychologically that we don’t always acknowledge. Joe Sanok 00:22:38 Yeah. And I think one thing I realized a few years ago was, you know, when my parents were, you know, parents to me as a younger person and I’m like, say, going through my teen years in the same way that it was my first time going through being a teenager. You know, I was the first born. Joe Sanok 00:22:55 It was their first time raising a teenager. And so it’s like, yeah, just just that idea of like, we’re doing our best here as parents. And in the same way, we want to give our kids grace to fumble and screw up and make mistakes and acknowledge them and, you know, have that whole rupture and repair cycle. we need that too, as parents. And it’s just like kind of having iterations that are better and better. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:23:20 I think that’s absolutely right. And I also think, you know, when it comes to practice, we ask a lot of questions, right? And we’re good at that when it’s not necessarily our family members or our own children. Right. You know, to say, well, how do you feel about that? Or explain why that’s bothering you. Right. And then with our kids, sometimes we don’t always ask those same questions and a question that can be valuable around some of these complicated issues, I think, is just, you know, to say, how do you think, as a parent, I should advise you in this moment and, you know, it’s not something a ten year old’s necessarily going to get, but a 13 year old often will then be forced to think like, okay, I understand from my parent’s perspective why, you know, they want me to, Who you know fit in and wear what other people are wearing to this family event. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:24:17 Right. So I think, you know, like you said, we forget that parents don’t know what they’re doing all the time. And I think it’s okay to admit that. I think it’s actually can be a great source of bonding with our kids to say, like, listen, I haven’t done this before. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do right now. I feel like, again, using this example. ripped jeans might not be the best outfit for today, but I also want to respect your ability to make these choices for yourself. And so, if that’s what you choose, that’s fine. I, you know, it doesn’t really matter to me, but if I can support you and you want to make a different choice or bring around, you know, that backup outfit, then that’s also good. You know, why can’t we just say, I don’t know? Joe Sanok 00:25:10 Now I can hear like, it’s sort of like my parents push back in my head of, like, why should we always give control to the kids? Why shouldn’t they have to learn that sometimes there’s times you just got to dress up and you’ve just got to, like, be uncomfortable. Joe Sanok 00:25:25 And I’m not going to let you wear ripped jeans to a wedding because you feel like it. And this whole like, you know, like, I mean, I can totally hear that pushback from from it could be other people. It could be even some of my friends that are like, no, there’s just times that you as a parent are like, do what I say. This is what’s happening. What are your thoughts on that? Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:25:45 I guess one of my thoughts is that the world is going to do a lot of that work for us. So I think we should pick sort of the battles we want to fight in terms of holding a hard line. And I’m not sure when it comes to something like our kids outfits. That’s the hard line we want to pick, right? you know, do I want my kids doing drugs? Absolutely not. Well, I punish them if I catch them doing that sort of thing. Yeah, I will, will I lecture them probably more than I would tell any other parent that they’re supposed to. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:26:21 Right. I will break some of my own rules even if I feel like, okay, this is really important. But I think in terms of things like, you know, the outfit or some of these more sensitive topics, you know, your daughter learned her lesson on her own. You didn’t have to be the heavy. You know, you can just say like, oh, I’m sorry if I should have warned you. I didn’t want to be a drag and make you wear whatever you want. You know? I’ll let you know what I think the attire is for the next time we have a family gathering. Yeah, but I feel like kids want freedom, and they want flexibility, and they want support, and let’s give it to them in safe ways. Right? Like, it doesn’t mean, again, like saying like, yeah, go out and experiment with drugs. That’s very different. but, like, wearing ripped jeans, like, you know, in general, they’re not my favorite. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:27:13 It’s just, you know, I’m middle aged. I think that they look not great. Always. Right? But, like, who cares? Joe Sanok 00:27:20 Yeah. Now, I want you to put your researcher hat on. And also your kind of communicator hat. Not that you haven’t been doing that, but I want to go more macro. if you are in charge in some way, whether it’s like the next administration says, listen, we’re going to have a department of self image for kids where the UN says we want to have you help guide policies on self-image, like when you think about the media, when you think about society, when you think about family decisions, like, what would your recommendations be if we were like, okay, in this next generation, we want to shift things to the most positive self-image way. Like what would what would the plan be for either for society and for individuals? Not that that’s a small question. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:28:05 Right? I’m like, wow, that’s like another book I’ll have to write someday. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:28:10 I think I would really change a lot of the education that kids get in schools when it comes to food and mental health in general. there’s a lot of kind of food rules that young people grow up with that I think can be problematic. I don’t think the mental health education per se is problematic, typically, but it’s absent often. So that’s the problem. I would like to see more focus in educational settings on media literacy, because so many kids are so engaged in different types of media. and we know that’s problematic. I think that there’s a reason for parents to be engaged in all of this, but, you know, you’re fighting an uphill battle as a parent if you don’t have the support from the structures around you. And so thinking about it at the school level or the school district or things like trying to keep phones out of classrooms, I think are important in terms of having kids who grow up able to feel comfortable in their own skin, able to engage well with other people in person, and able to really maintain mental health. Joe Sanok 00:29:35 The last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:29:41 I think I’d. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:29:41 Want them to know that if you don’t specialize in eating behaviors and body image, and you have clientele who need that specialty to really refer to those of us who do this, because these can be really chronic, really serious problems that can even be fatal. and I think that it, it can just be really frustrating if you are stretching yourself beyond your expertise to work with this particular clientele. Joe Sanok 00:30:15 It’s so good if people want to get your books, if they want to follow your work, where should we send them. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:30:19 Yeah. So my new book is just out this month. It’s called adult ish The Body Image Book for life. all of my books you can find online at The Body Image facebook.com. And you can follow me on Instagram TikTok. if you look for Charlotte Murphy, I’m pretty easy to find everywhere. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:30:38 Thank you so. Joe Sanok 00:30:39 Much for being on the practice of the practice podcast. Dr. Charlotte Markey 00:30:42 Thank you for having me. Joe Sanok 00:30:51 Wow. so many of these interviews lately, I feel like could have been, you know, an hour or two hour long interviews just to dig so much deeper into just the topic. So I guess you got to just go get go get Charlotte’s books. because not I guess you should, it sounds like it would be so helpful for you, for your clients in so many different ways. just a reminder, it’s level up week. Now is the time to level up to join next level practice, group practice launch and group practice. Boss, those three communities are open this week and next week we’ll be having our welcome parties, quickly thereafter for the new cohorts. So we can’t wait to help you with your solo practice, starting your group practice, or your group practice. our consultants are standing by. They are involved in our circle community where they’re answering questions, where we do live Q&A, where we bring in all sorts of experts for you to be able to pick their brains. Joe Sanok 00:31:48 we also have over 30 courses that you get access to, and we are recording new ones regularly. we just released a marketing one and the networking one. We’re putting together a lot of calculators that I use with my consulting clients. So if I make a calculator for my consulting clients, like a when to hire calculator or, what to pay people calculator, we’ve turned those into digital things that that you can use and that you can implement as well. So so many things that you get, you know, for a low monthly price, for less than the cost of one counseling session, you can get amazing support from other people, from experts. So join one of our communities over at practice of the practice.com/level up on those communities that are open this week and next week. So make sure you join before those close next week. Also, we couldn’t do the show without our sponsors. Well received is what I wish I had had before I sold my counseling. Private practice. think about when people are calling your practice and it’s just going to voicemail. Joe Sanok 00:32:46 That’s a client that you’ve lost. You know, for the most part, people are just going to call until they talk to somebody. they’re not going to want to wait for a phone call back. And that’s just like a big waste of time if you want a 24 over seven professional receptionist, you have to use well received. They do new client intakes after hours. They have bilingual services, they do appointment scheduling and so much more at the fraction of a cost of the cost of an in-house receptionist. Head on over to well-received dot com slash Joe, and you’re going to get 50% off your first three months. Again that’s well received.com/joe to get 50% off your first three months of the amazing receptionist they have over there. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band, Silence is Sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. Joe Sanok 00:33:41 It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.