[WHITNEY OWENS]
Welcome to the Faith in Practice podcast. I’m your host Whitney Owens recording live from Savannah, Georgia. I’m a licensed professional counselor, group practice owner, and private practice consultant. Each week through personal story or amazing interviews, I will help you learn how to start, grow and scale your practice from a faith-based perspective. I will show you how to have an awesome faith-based practice without being cheesy or fake. You too can have a successful practice, make lots of money, and be true to yourself.

I hope everyone is having a great summer. I know that I’ve enjoyed it going on trips with my family, working at the practice, having a little bit more time at the pool and at the beach. So I hope you’re also having a great one. I absolutely love podcasting because I get to meet some of the coolest people doing such neat work out there. So this episode today with Lisa Lovelace is totally that. She was so cool and she was really on the cutting edge of online therapy and helping you set up an online therapy practice. I do laugh though, when I think back on this interview, because it was a crazy day. I had scheduled with her so far out because when you have great guests, sometimes you have to schedule months in advance and be ready for that interview and there is no changing it because I am not going to be changing it and possibly missing out on a great interview.

So the day of my interview with Lisa, I ended up finding out that every office in my office complex or my building is full, I was planning to record in my own office, but then someone had an emergency therapy session. It was the only space they had and I was like, ”Oh my gosh, what am I going to do?” I did not have time. I found this out five minutes before the interview. I did not have time to drive home, plus my Internet’s not as great at home and I didn’t know where to go. So I went downstairs in our lobby, made sure that everyone was already in their offices and that no one else would be coming into the lobby. Fortunately, it was early in the day, so we didn’t have a lot of parents or kids in the lobby at the moment and I podcasted sitting on the sofa in the waiting room with this little table beside me.

I was so like in a funny situation, like my body and the mind and where it was like, it just looked silly. And Lisa was just so understanding that I was in an awkward situation and she did a really great interview and it’s just funny. This is what being a practice owner is. You have to laugh it out and you have to enjoy it. Sometimes things don’t always go the way that we plan and we move forward no matter what. Anyway, I really appreciated her being flexible with me. I was a few minutes late getting on and I really did enjoy working with her. So if you have ever thought about having an online component as you, of course, because of COVID, but if you’ve really thought about not going back in person, you’re really going to like this interview. And even if you are in-person, she really gives a lot of really cool tips about having an online component to your practice. All right. So we are going to go ahead and jump into the episode. So this is episode number 94, Lisa Lovelace on Growing an Online Therapy Practice.
[WHITNEY]
Today on the Faith in Practice podcast, I have Dr. Lisa Lovelace. She is the founder of Synergy eTherapy and is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist in Minnesota, Wisconsin, New York, and is registered as a telehealth provider in Florida. Dr. Lisa has over 20 years of post-graduate level clinical experience working with children, adolescents, and adults who suffer from a wide range of mental health concerns, including anxiety, depression, relationship difficulties, and other emotional and behavioral disorders. Lisa, thanks for coming on the show today.
[LISA LOVELACE]
Thank you so much for having me. It’s good to meet you. Good to be here.
[WHITNEY]
Yes. Well, we were just chatting a little bit before recording and gosh, it’s so exciting to hear about all the stuff that you’re doing. So happy to share this with the audience. Why don’t you kind of start out about your mental health background and how you started your practice and what your practice is all about?
[LISA]
Yes. So I will try to squeeze that into just like a few minutes. I feel like I could go on for days about my background. That’s how old I feel I am. But it was, goodness, I don’t even know the year, but I was finishing up in New York. That’s where I did my internship. I’m a psychologist and I finished my internship. I did a two year fellowship and then I directed a substance abuse program there, which was grant funded. So it was very time limited of five years. So I did a pretty good amount of time in New York, New York city in Brooklyn, and lived there for a while and enjoyed living and working in the city.

Then I decided to move back home here in Minnesota, which is where I’m from. And when I was done in New York and moved to Minnesota, of course I got my Minnesota license. This was back in 2011, I want to say, which feels like forever ago in the telehealth sphere, because back then there was nothing like there is now. But I had to figure out, well, do I want to keep my New York license? Why would I keep it? I decided to keep it and I decided to try to see clients in New York when I lived in, at home in Minnesota. And that’s when I started doing online therapy and I just was super random about it.

I had no idea what I was doing, but it was working and clients were getting benefit from it. I was enjoying that, kind of doing it on the side of my clinic work when I came back here and just over the years it has evolved where my colleagues found out what I was doing and they wanted to do what I was doing. So I brought them on board and rebranded and came up with Synergy eTherapy. So it was probably in 2014 or 2015. I started with this idea of creating a group that was a hundred percent virtual. So we have no brick and mortar office space. It’s just virtual. And I didn’t know anybody else who was doing this. I think online therapy was certainly something that people knew about and it was starting to get some traction, but not like it is now. Then just over the years, I’ve just learned a lot and grown a lot and it’s always changing the landscape. Telehealth is always changing and now I enjoy not only my own clients and then my own clinicians in Synergy, but I’m also teaching other therapists who want to grow an online group practice how to do it and learn from me. Oh, that is a nutshell.
[WHITNEY]
Gosh, I just love how you were like on the cutting edge before you knew you were on the cutting edge. It’s like when someone comes up with a new trend and fashion and no one knows about it and then all of a sudden it’s cool. And you’re like, “I was doing that three years ago.” I love that.
[LISA]
Yes, you’re like, “Hey, that was cool. Five years ago. What happened? Why didn’t anybody recognize it then?”
[WHITNEY]
That’s right. That’s right. So tell us again, how many clinicians you have now, how many states do you cover? And I’m really curious as to what your flow is like as a staff, like your culture.
[LISA]
So right now I think we’re around, I have to count, but I think we’re at 16 or 17 of us. And then we do have a handful of interns. Of course once COVID hit all the schools are scrambling because maybe clinics didn’t go online or they didn’t have space for interns so we really quickly kind of got up and running and we’re enjoying teaching interns in master’s programs mostly. We’re in about 16 or 17 states. Some of us are multi-state licensed or registered like in Florida and physically we’re located, I would say probably about 10 or 12, we’re about 10 states physically that we’re in because a lot of us overlap certain states. It has just been super fun to be able to have that challenge of starting. If somebody wants to join the group, they are certainly, it’s kind of a different, it’s more of like a collective or a co-op or it’s kind of like a marketing collective in a way of a group practice where everybody’s independent and really gets to create their own group practice with their own online practice within s group. And they get me in and I coach and all the things that I’ve learned and our website that has really good traction.

And I’ve done a lot with like SEO and community building within our group and we have monthly group consultation and every month I talk to all my therapists. Well, I talk to them, honestly, there’s not a day that goes by that I’m not texting or talking to one of them. But we have built a really great culture and a safe and respectful and trusting culture, a hundred percent remote. Some of them I’ve never met in person, but they’re like so close with me and how we are as colleagues and partners. And it’s just a really fun way to help other solo practitioners really build their practice within the comforts of a group.
[WHITNEY]
I love that. I mean, you bring a lot of the teaching component, which probably really draws people to you and as therapists, we can have this quick authentic relationship with people even when we’re far away because we’re both —
[LISA]
A hundred percent. And I think people are always curious/skeptical about a remote business in general. And then of course, just telehealth with clients, you know, can you really build that relationship? Do you really need that in-person energy? And of course, I think it depends on who you are as a person, as a therapist and kind of your needs as a client. But for the most part, it really can work really well and that can translate to the culture of an online practice too where as the leader,” we set the stage for how we engage and what we do with our therapists to help them feel supported and independent and give them tips and tricks and marketing. And I love the coaching part of it. That’s like my favorite. I could do without the financials and the monthly accounting. I hate that, but I love the coaching aspect and watching other people build their practice and thrive. And it’s a joint venture because they’re not doing it alone and I am not doing it alone either. They, whoever I hire, they need to buy into the fact that they’re going to be a huge part of building their practice.
[WHITNEY]
Yes, definitely. Well, let’s jump right in. I’m sure everybody’s pitching to hear what your tips are for starting an online practice. So let’s first talk about people who come to you that say, “Okay, I want to start my own practice and I eventually want to be a group and I want to be totally virtual.” Can you share some of the things you walk people through and especially things that you think people don’t know that they need to know?
[LISA]
Yes. Well, that’s a great question. And if I back up a second on that, what I have been seeing a lot in like social media or Facebook groups with therapists is people are certainly attracted to some of these larger companies that have lots of money but they give kind of low pay, I would say for your qualifications. And I would just encourage people to realize that there’s actually a ton of really great online or hybrid group practices with therapists who are the owners and we really have a need for qualified therapists who want to join our team and see clients and get higher fees much of the time. And then like mine, they can set their own rights. So you get what you get right. There is of course other fees that go along with it, but you’re getting much higher rates than you would with some of the other companies.

So I think there’s lots of options out there for people to look at, but I just want people to know that there’s plenty of us who are really seeking some great therapists to join. And what that looks like is somebody typically wants to not be floating out there alone doing online therapy, or maybe they really don’t want to do all the business end of things. Like they don’t want to deal with a website or social media posts or Facebook ads or whatever it is that maybe group practice owners like myself do, and maybe they need that extra support or handholding, not in a negative way, but in a positive way of like being part of something and shared responsibility and feeling really contained and supported.

So a lot of times being a part of like a group practice that’s online, that would be a really great option for a therapist who they’re just like, I don’t know, I don’t really know what to do or I don’t want to show certain things. So definitely that would be for you, if that’s you listening. And then there’s obviously lots of us out there, not just myself, but lots of other practice owners. So for your, I’m always promoting other group practice owners that I’ve worked with and then I know and trust to be great companies. So that’s one thing. It’s a collective experience and helping each other to grow and expand and get people to the right place. So that’s kind of my disclaimer, a little bit.
[WHITNEY]
I’m so glad that you kind of went back and said that, and even yesterday I had a free consulting call with somebody who said, “You know what, don’t go start your own practice. You’re doing virtual. There are so many great practices looking to hire, just go do the,” you know, I’d warmly say that to people, but in her situation it was exactly what she needed. So I think you’re making such a strong point there in joining other really strong practices that party exist because there is, we had a mental health crisis, but then all the mental health practices are having their own little crisis struggling to hire more therapists.
[LISA]
Oh, so true. I see it everywhere. It’s very different this year. I think because everybody had to quickly go online, whether you liked it or not, and whether you’re going to stay online or not as a therapist. And I think everybody just kind of was like, okay, I just need to do this, but now it’s like, do you want to do it? How do you want to do it? Do you want to do it well, are there certain parts that you like or not like and what do you need as a therapist that you maybe need that containment in a group practice, or maybe you want to have a coach as a group practice owner, or you’d like to have other elements that you maybe wouldn’t want to pay for on your own. I mean, we give people so much being part of our group that they wouldn’t normally get for the cheap price. That you can start your own online group practice being in a group practice because you’re going to get a lot more. It’s going to be a lot more bang for your buck, so to speak.
[WHITNEY]
Definitely. Well, what are some, one of the tips for people for starting and growing their online businesses?
[LISA]
So I think the biggest tip that I have, and especially whether you’re just doing a solo online practice or whether you are really needing to expand into your own online group practice, because you either have so many clients coming to you, you have a wait list, or you just liked the idea of collaborating and expanding, then the first and biggest tip, and I can’t stress it enough is to understand why you want to do it. What is driving you to build a virtual practice, whether it’s solo or a group and understanding like what comes with that? Because I see a lot of the times people will say, “I just want some passive income.” I see that all the time and I was really trying to understand what it is they were actually wanting because when I think of being a group practice owner, I don’t think of anything as passive.

I mean maybe in time it will be, but you’re always kind of working. But then I realized what passive was truly meaning, I think, for people is that they didn’t want to do the session to session to session, the clinical work as being passive. And understanding that passive income it’s always active income, I don’t really know that it’s passive because you’re always working, but how you work is very different. So I’m kind of talking about group practice now for being online, but understanding your why and understanding is that the only reason, is to earn extra income in a different way, or are there any other elements about potentially being like a group practice owner online that you would find enjoyable? Do you like to, and this is for solo or group, do you like to do the business aspect? Do you want to learn about things that you probably never learned in school and if you did clinic work never had to learn like about business in accounting and financials?

Do you like understanding HIPAA and form consenting and the state laws. And some of it you’re going to be like, “No, I don’t really enjoy that at all.” At the same time, there should be many more things that you’re like, yes, that’s fascinating. Or this would be really energizing or really being able to dive deep and understanding all marketing. We don’t go to school for this stuff. You learn how to be a therapist and you do that really well and when you’re a business owner, whether solo or group, you are now learning about marketing and business and accounting and social media, and it goes on and on and on. And if you don’t really have an interest in that stuff, and you’re just kind of wanting the financial gain, it’s probably not going to be the best fit because you’re going to burn out from it or you’re going to, you could hire out for sure if you have that money and say, “I don’t want to do any better. I’m just going to hire for this, this, this, this.”

Although I truly believe as a solo practice owner, if that’s online or a group practice owner that’s online, knowing and understanding all the working parts that are behind it is only going to fuel your success and help you understand. Like you don’t want to hire somebody and not know why they’re doing what they’re doing or that they’re taking all this money for no reason. Not to say that people are doing that, but like, we kind of have to know what is going on behind the scenes. So there’s always going to be an element of the business end. So I think long answer is to know your why, and to really dive deep into all the aspects that you’re going to be engaged in whether you’re learning it and then hiring out or whether you’re learning it and going to do it yourself.
[WHITNEY]
Yes. That’s an important going back to those foundational principles. And I’m telling you starting and growing a group practice is no easy business [crosstalk]. Now I wanted to do it. I was excited to do it, but now it’s like palms but that’s not your jam. Then there are a lot of other ways to make income as a therapist, besides having a group practice and people need to explore those as well.
[LISA]
Right, or doing it yourself as a solo practitioner. You know, like I want to have my own business, but I don’t want to have to deal with all the working parts. Then there are group practice owners that love all those working parts. Or maybe they love most of them. But they you push through the distress of the things you don’t like so that you can enjoy the much bigger aspect of the group as a group practice owner, but yes, there’s lots to learn and that would be my first and major tip I think, is to really think about what it is that you’re going into and what you love about it and what you might not take to it and then how do you manage that?
[WHITNEY]
That’s good. Well, that’s probably the most important tip right there is making sure you have that good base foundation. So where do we go from there?
[LISA]
So where do you go from there is once you got all that, never waiver ever again. I tell people just start, don’t get paralysis by analysis. Just start. If you don’t like it, or something needs to change, you can change it. I’ve had people start group practices that were online and now they’re like, “Yes, that wasn’t for me,” and they’re solo practitioner again. You can go back and forth, so don’t be afraid of making changes. So where do you go from there? I think, what is really important is to understand like the backend of legal and ethical. So we try our best to understand the complex web of the legal world. And we do our best, whether you hire a lawyer now or later. Everybody has their own risks that they’re taking with everything they do, whether you see somebody in a state you’re not licensed in, or whether you hire a lawyer or not.

Everybody’s kind of having to understand what is their risk? What are they going to not take a risk with at all? Some people would say, I won’t touch this with a 10 foot pole until I have my legal retainer and they’re all with me. And then other people are like, I’m just going to start. I’m going to go find some sort of templates and figure it out and if I ever get in trouble, then I’ll find the lawyer. So I don’t know that there’s like a right or wrong, but really understanding as much as you can with legal and with states and ethics so that you know, you are doing the best that you can with the money you might have to start up and you’re really thinking through and researching a lot about how you want your practice to look.

You know, there’s accounting out there with like LLCs and some states don’t allow those and there’s PCs and S-Corps. And there’s things that, again, we weren’t trained to understand or to know that we may need to hire out for, or do your research for, and really understanding and going into building the foundation. Once you know your why then you can kind of build your foundation with yourself as a solo practitioner. Or if you’re going to hire people, how do you do that? What does that look like? So researching that, understanding that, hiring out if you can afford it or want to, depending on your risk would be my second tip and understanding kind of the end of business in that regard.
[WHITNEY]
Yes. So I actually have some questions here on this part. So when someone is hiring people in multiple states, normally when I consult group practice owners, I tell them to go to an employment attorney in their state who knows the law about hiring differences between employee, W2’s contractors, all that kind of stuff. So how do you go about that? Do you have one person or resource that kind of answers all of them for you or do you have contacts in all these different states? How do you answer this questions?
[LISA]
Yes, that’s one of the biggest questions. As you know it’s so specific to different states in their laws. I wouldn’t have a clue what every state is like. I mean, we know some states are harder than others and certain laws like the ADC rules and things that are coming out of California. We know that things are kind of, depending on who’s in the administration too, like, do they favor ICs, do they favor employees? I have done a lot of recordings with different types of lawyers and have learned a lot that way. So I have resources to lawyers that I’ve talked with and know, and trust and like what they offer so I can give those resources to people. I certainly don’t tell them what they should do, because I don’t, I can tell them how to think about it, where to go to look things up, but when it comes to their decision and how they’re going to end up with, it’s got to be on them versus me saying, because I’m not an attorney.

I don’t know the laws and I certainly wouldn’t want to like you said, like you refer them on to find somebody that can help them in their practice. But some people don’t want to hire or can’t hire an attorney and then they need to kind of figure out on their own with the information in the Google land and maybe in their networks, what might be a good way to start. And then of course it’s all about risks. So I have a lot of people that I’ve talked to and interviewed, and that are in my back pocket, so to speak, if they want to hire them or do a consult with them. But it is also state specific and then it is really practice specific. I think you’ll find a lot of therapists groups or, if you’re going to take on other practitioners, whether you’re in one state or in multiple states, there’s really ways to look at what the laws and regulations are around independent contractors.

And the laws favor employees. It’s a lot safer to have employees. You have to really prove that you’re not an employee. It’s like guilty until proven innocent in a way. You have to really prove that. And that’s really hard for therapy practices to do. And some states might be a little less stringent and other states are going to be a little stricter on that. So I’m kind of with you on that of like, I’m not going to tell you that answer because I can’t. I’m not qualified to do so, but here, like in the end of April I’m coming out with a mini course for people who really want to really dive into all this stuff, and I’m going to have all the videos, I’m going to have all these links, I’m going to have everything and then be available for like two a day, every month in our Facebook group. So they get access to everything that way. And then that they can kind of where to go and what to think of and how to start when it’s not something I can say, you need to do a W2 or you need to be an IC, or you need to do something totally different like maybe there’s a co-op or a collective in a way. There’s so many ideas that are out there. So I just help people kind of think through that initially at the beginning.
[WHITNEY]
I love that. I love that you point people to the right resources, you offer lots of valuable information and by the time this podcast goes live, that will be up and going on your website, I’m guessing. So that’ll be a great resource for the audience.
[LISA]
Yes. I hope so.
[WHITNEY]
Let me ask you another —
[LISA]
We get a lot of the same questions as, as you might too. You get a lot of the same questions and I’m like, well, I need to just don’t want to repeat myself. I want to put this into something that’s helpful.
[WHITNEY]
That’s so true. And do you ever work with people who have an international online practice?
[LISA]
Not yet. Not specifically. That’s always kind of confusing to me. You have to know that country, do they have laws and rules, regulations, do they have their own board or register? So I really not really worked specifically with somebody that’s overseas in that way, where they’re having just an international online practice. I think just because, I mean, I can certainly help with all the regular things about just having an online group practice or an online practice, but when it comes to some of those laws and rules and legs, and then of course, just making sure that your website is compliant, you know, there’s different, a little bit different things that go in to that. But aside from the foundational points and the ethics and the laws, and that is like how you structure it and like, what if a client comes to your website and like, what’s their workflow and what’s their experience like, and things like that.

I also wanted to stress too, that, speaking of websites our website, because we’re a hundred percent virtual, that’s our storefront, that’s our clinic. And to think about the user experiences, like if somebody were to pull up in your parking lot, what does that look like? And what’s the outside of your storefront look like? And when they walk in, is it clean and nice and relaxing? So we kind of want to think of our website in the same way of like being that experience of coming into your group practice or your individual practice, that’s all online, because that’s all they have. They don’t get to see you get to feel that energy. And making sure your website is ADA-compliant.

I have, my web guide created this ADA-compliance icon that pulls up and if you’re hearing impaired or vision impaired or you can’t see something, you can zoom in and it talks to you. You can put it in the cursor over. So I think a lot of people need to think about those things too with like how their website is structured, because that’s the main way people are going to see you and to make sure that it’s accessible for everybody, too, just like you would have in your parking lot; a ramp for potentially a wheelchair or something like that. Kind of went off on like a different tangent there, but part of it is really understanding like the house, somebody can have a workflow coming into your virtual store.
[WHITNEY]
Yes. That was really great. I’m always going to think now your virtual store, your website, and that is so important. Anything else that we haven’t hit on that you wanted to make sure people knew about today?
[LISA]
Gosh, I mean, I certainly could go on forever. I think those two tips are very important and the third being the website, I think would be my third tip and making sure it’s compliant and also having a great user experience for clients. And also like for clinicians, if you do have a group practice that’s online, like who do you want to have in your group? What kind of clinician would be a good addition to your style, to your company’s culture? And then kind of going into that, it’s just creating a culture that’s virtual. How do you do that? And it just is a lot about creativity and access to you and engagement as a group practice owner and that really will feel, clinicians and clients seeing like this is a good stable company. There’s not a lot of turnover, that everybody has like kind of a unique clinical experience, unique personalities that fit really well together.

And just be very mindful in who you take on, if you do have a group practice or you want to expand a group practice, that’s online. Really taking that time to vet out people and understand their reasons to join you and if it’s going to be something that works long term for you as well. So engaging your clinicians and who you’re going to hire is very important in creating a culture that that’s going to attract people. So maybe that would be like the fourth tip of like thinking through how you want to create a virtual practice, how you want it to feel, how you want it to be for yourself as the owner, as well as if you bring on other clinicians or interns just as much as you think about how it will be for clients. But I think that would be, I guess like four big chunks.
[WHITNEY]
Yes. You’ve given us tons of great information. And then you also are offering a freebie to the audience where they can go to your website and there’s an online checklist for, or a checklist for starting an online group practice. So we will have that in the show notes. That is super helpful for people. I enjoyed learning more about this, and I’ll definitely be sending people your way when they come through with a lot of online marketing questions. Sounds like you’ve a lot of good resources through your practice.
[LISA]
Thank you. That’s wonderful. Well, thank you. I’m glad to talk about this. I am happy to help out anybody that has questions I’m always accessible. If anybody’s interested in building an online group practice, I do have a Facebook group that is open to any therapist who wants to join. It’s just called How to Build an Online Therapy Group Practice. You just type that in and request to join and lots of freebies in that group and lots of Facebook lives and things that I do to just give value and to help people. And then I do have a free checklist that, you have the link, hopefully people can download and then a mini course coming out end of April. Hopefully that was all those things. And I do one-on-one consultations as well. But I really hope that a lot of the questions will be answered through the mini course at the end of April, too. So thank you for having me. It’s been super fun to talk with you and learn about what you’re doing and how you’re helping so many people too. So thank you.
[WHITNEY]
Well, I want to ask you the question I ask everyone here at the end of the podcast, what do you believe every Christian counselor needs to know?
[WHITNEY]
I think what everyone needs to know is that you just need to believe in yourself and you need to believe that new things can be scary and hard and confusing and there’s people out here to support you. And look at all you’ve done so far with school and tests and exams and papers and building your own practice perhaps, or just having your own practice inside of the clinic or whatever you’re doing. Look at how much you’ve already done. So there’s a lot of new things and fun things out there to try and just believe in yourself that you can do it. And you know that you have the skillset and the mindset that it takes and just knowing your strengths and knowing how to use those strengths to go farther and do whatever you want to do to get the practice that you want and use your clinical skills in the way you want and enjoy the work that you are here doing as much as you can. That would be my biggest takeaway.
[WHITNEY]
Yes, it’s so important. It’s so important to go back and remember where we’ve come from and we have that confidence. So thank you so much for coming on the show today and teaching us so much about online therapy practices. And like I said, all her contact information will be in the show notes. Thank you so much, Lisa.
[LISA]
Thank you.
[WHITNEY]
Thank you for listening to the Faith in Practice podcast. If you love this podcast, please rate and review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player. If you liked this episode and want to know more, check out the Practice of the Practice website. Also there, you can learn more about me, options for working together, such as individual and in group consulting, or just shoot me an email, [email protected]. Would love to hear from you.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one