Joe Sanok 00:00:00  You're someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You're also someone who'd prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else's story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. Again, that's practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Sarna. Session number 107. Welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. We are going to be doing a series between now and the beginning of November, where we are going to be playing all of our level Up week trainings that we did in September of 2024.

Joe Sanok 00:01:21  And we're going to be talking about from empty to overflowing, talking about your branding, talking about multi locations shifting from 1099 to W2, all sorts of different things during this series. And if you want help from one of our consultants for every single phase of practice, or if you're just not sure where you fit in our memberships versus our consulting, I would love for you to talk with me over at practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. We can schedule a 30 minute call together and dig into all those different areas that you want to get started again. That's practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. Now let's get started with the level up week series. Welcome, everybody. We are going to get started in just a second here. right at the bottom, in the chat, if you have questions, as we get going. Feel free to drop those in. This is going to be a dynamic interactive panel, where we're going to be interviewing and having conversations with our panelists. But also, you might have a question that needs a little bit of back and forth.

Joe Sanok 00:02:19  So what you're going to do is at the bottom where it says react. You can always react to what someone says, and that makes them feel good when they, you know, get a thumbs up or a clap. But really what we're talking about there is raise hand. Oh, I like the balloons, Melissa. Love it. is raise hand if you raise your hand. that tells me that you're willing to either, come on audio or audio and video and we'll put a spotlight on you to ask your question, because it might need a little bit of back and forth. so let's get this thing started. Let me get, just the first couple slides up, and then we're going to get to this panel. so what we're talking about right now is you are in the how to start a private practice Panel. and so if you haven't met me, I'm Joe Sarna. I started practice of the practice in 2012. really? It came out of my own need where I had started mental wellness counseling in 2006.

Joe Sanok 00:03:08  I then moved it to my hometown of Traverse City, Michigan, in 2009, and I knew nothing about business. I would read a book, and then I was like, I need to, like, share this with people. So I would read a book like the one thing, and then I'd write a blog post or do a podcast about it, or, I would use the podcast literally to interview people that I should be paying. so I read the book, The One thing, and then I reached out to Jay Papazian, who wrote that book, which it's an amazing business book that I think everyone should read and said, hey, will you be on my podcast? And he said, yes. And he's someone that charges thousands of dollars an hour that now I've his personal cell phone number because of what happened through that connection. And so over time, I just started interviewing more and more people. It was the first podcast for counselors and private practice, so we get anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 listeners a month, depending on the month.

Joe Sanok 00:03:56  and we've helped train a lot of the consultants that are out there. I'm also a dad of two awesome daughters. They're ten and 13. We have lots of fun. go to the beaches, stand up paddle board, play board games. soon we'll be using Belize's connection cards to, have some questions, that we can, have prompts when we're on long road trips. So, that's me. And, we have Nicholas, and we have bellezza with us as our panelists. And I'm going to let each of them dig into a little bit about their practices. as we get started, as you hear what they're talking about, you may say, oh, well, Lisa said something that I want to have her specifically answer or Nicholas said something I want him to answer. Make sure you put in your questions. If you want one person to answer it, you know, hey, Nicholas, like, can you follow up on this? this just helpful for the flow of our conversation. So, Lisa, kick it off for us.

Joe Sanok 00:04:44  Tell us about your solo practice.

Beliza Perez 00:04:45  Absolutely. I have a solo private practice in Oviedo, Florida, which is about like 15 minutes from Orlando. I work specifically with kids ages 6 to 11. I deal a lot with mild to moderate anger, anxiety, and giftedness, and I do some parenting training as well. And I've been doing this for almost 16 years now in my solo practice, about ten years now, which is a really amazing. And while to hear it out loud.

Joe Sanok 00:05:15  Yeah, yeah. Nicholas, tell us about your practice.

Speaker 3 00:05:19  Yeah. So I've been practicing therapy for about four years now. I graduated in 2020, so I've been with the community agency for pretty much all that time. And, in February of this year, I decided to start my private practice. So. Pretty new here. less than a year. And, I work, primarily with adults, and focus on anxiety and OCD, though I take a trauma informed approach to everybody that I work with. And, you know, I treat a lot of different things, but mostly anxiety and OCD with adults.

Joe Sanok 00:05:54  Yeah. And do each of you do private pay insurance or a mixed model.

Beliza Perez 00:05:59  Of both for private practice?

Speaker 3 00:06:01  I do both.

Joe Sanok 00:06:02  Okay, cool. So that's just for if people have specific questions about maybe insurance, they'll direct it more towards Nicholas. and in private pay to both of you. So awesome. so, Belize, I have a question to kind of kick us off. so we just did the 2024 State of Private Practice survey, and there was something in it that to me, it shocked me. I was so surprised in regards to the state of private practice that, about half of our audience said that they were as full as they wanted to be. They weren't planning on leveling up or starting a group practice, and they were had a sustainable solo practice, and they made that decision. And for us, we were like, Holy cow! Like, how do we support more people that want sustainable solo practices? but they're not in that startup phase like that. A lot of our programs are, and they're not moving into a group.

Joe Sanok 00:06:48  You've had a solo practice for a while. I'm sure you felt the pressure of like, you got to level up. You got to like add clinicians that take us through your decision to have a solo practice and to have it be a sustainable solo practice.

Beliza Perez 00:07:01  so it was always solo from the beginning, all I ever thought of was doing something that was just mine on my own. and it was just something that worked for me. I've been invited to join practices to launch, you know, group practice with others, and I just my passion was just me and my kids, you know, me and my clients. I did attempt to launch a group practice. It's just it's, my practice is very niched. So finding employees who can mimic what I do or do what I do is a little bit challenging. I just find that right now it's easier and it just works for me to just have me and my clients.

Joe Sanok 00:07:42  Yeah, I think that's what's beautiful about having a solo practice is you or any private practice, you get to decide what that thriving practice looks like that you absolutely love, like, you know, you can just decide, okay, I'm going to do solo practice for this many days, and I don't have to level up in the way of, like, other people leveling up.

Joe Sanok 00:07:58  So yeah.

Beliza Perez 00:07:59  You can try it and and change your mind. Yeah.

Joe Sanok 00:08:02  Great. Yeah. That's a great point to like it's not like, you know one and done Nicholas. So since you're newer at starting the practice, maybe walk us through the six months or a year before you launched it. Like, what were you thinking? What were you like? What were you thinking? You know, like, what were you like considering what were you, like, what helped you make the decision? Yeah. Like, you know, February. That's that's when I'm going to launch my practice.

Speaker 3 00:08:27  Yeah. So private practice has always been the goal. I remember back in high school when I first learned that being a counselor was even an option. I was like, oh, man, it would be so cool to, like, have my own business. And, you know, and see clients independently. So that's always been, you know, what I've wanted to do. And it was just a matter of, a matter of checking all the boxes in order to get there.

Speaker 3 00:08:48  So, June of last year is when I got my independent licensure, and that's when I really started thinking about like, okay, it's time. Like, I can, I can do this. And, initially I had, I thought that I would need to because I was working in a community agency. I didn't know anything about billing. I didn't know anything about marketing, didn't know anything about, you know, the actual business end of, of starting. And so I had a buddy who encouraged me. He's like, hey, you know, you're going to learn that stuff along the way. Don't push it off. Just just jump into it. And, so I started looking at resources like practice of the practice and kind of empowering myself with, finding the knowledge out there and just decided to go for it. So it was pretty quick. You know, it was almost as soon as I could, I decided to decided to do this.

Joe Sanok 00:09:35  what were a couple of your first steps that you, you took when you were like, okay, let's do this.

Joe Sanok 00:09:39  Let's let's run full tilt.

Speaker 3 00:09:41  Yeah. So, yeah, the resource gathering was, was one of them. I, I tried to do a lot of research in terms of, you know, looking at YouTube videos and listening to podcasts and just being like, all right, what are people doing? What are some of the basic first steps? And and I really leaned on my community. So I'd mentioned that I had a buddy who encouraged me, and he had just started his private practice. So he was kind of maybe like a couple months ahead of where I was. And so I kind of just sort of piggybacked off the things that he did. But really, I started by, getting my, my business license. So going through, you know, the steps of my state in order to create the LLC. and then from there, I looked into getting an EHR and, setting up, you know, a business email and just some of those, you know, basic first steps. and I operated for the first little bit as a, as purely private pay.

Speaker 3 00:10:33  I had one client for, you know, a month or so, and, and then I decided to get channeled through alma, with insurance. And so that's where things kind of started to go a little bit more.

Joe Sanok 00:10:45  Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, you know, one of my first blog posts I ever wrote was called friends with benefits, and it talked about my three friends who had helped me. I had a friend who was an accountant that I still remember. I took him out to Panera, bottom lunch and, you know, we sat there and he's like, here's what an LLC is. Here's how you do bookkeeping. I mean, it was like one below 101. but it was like, I didn't know any of that. And then I had a friend who was a visual designer who helped me just kind of figure out some brand colors and logos and things like that. And I had another friend who was a therapist that had built her own website, and she was like, here's how I did it on WordPress.

Joe Sanok 00:11:18  Pay the 75 bucks to, like, have the theme installed and like all these things. And it was just like these three friends and just saying, like, who's doing things that are even close to what I want to do. when you're bootstrapping at the beginning can be so helpful to, to have those people kind of walk alongside you. believes that you've been at this for a bit. if you go back to when you started the practice, do you remember some of those challenges and some of those kind of, like, checklist things that you had to think through? Yes.

Beliza Perez 00:11:45  I was a hot mess the first three years of my private practice, I had no idea what I was doing. I was doing part time community, mental health, part time private practice. I had no idea. No clue. It wasn't until the fourth year that I got a consultant that was the game changer that literally year four. It was like it was on after that. but definitely, a lot of what Nicholas said and really just really finding, you know, who do I want to work with? You know, what kind of practice do I want to have? Do I want to work with kids or adults? And if so, like I started out as a generalist, I was like, RLC, you know, up until 18, you know, throw anything at me.

Beliza Perez 00:12:29  And then it was over time that I realized, okay, I really like working with younger kids and then younger and younger. And then anger and anxiety came up. A lot of my kids ended up being gifted, so I ended up having to learn a lot about that. And that's my niche right now. But yeah, consulting is a big game changer, and a lot of it is, you know, the stuff that's free on practice, the practice. I mean, there's just so much information out there now that I didn't have years ago that I look at it now and I'm like, wow, if I had that back then, I could have, you know, leveled up quicker.

Joe Sanok 00:13:05  Kids these days don't know what they got. Yeah. Lucky kids. when you worked with that consultant, what did they help you organize? That was such a game changer.

Beliza Perez 00:13:16  they helped me organize my numbers. It was literally knowing how many clients do I see a week? How much am I making? what's my, dollar per visit? Average? how many clients do I need to see to be able to make X amount of money? and also, what's my worth? So, are the clients coming back? Are they not coming back? If not, what do I need to work on or not? I just so happened to have a really good retention rate.

Beliza Perez 00:13:41  so for me, that wasn't the problem. It was learning how to price myself so that I didn't have, you know, 60 clients a week, 50 clients a week.

Joe Sanok 00:13:50  Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna show something to people later, but I think it makes sense now because you're talking numbers. let me just show you guys this, staff wage calculator that I use with my consulting, clients. So you can use this for just yourself if you're in solo practice or if you have a group practice. and just the basics of it. I put some numbers in before we get in here is, you know, say you're the one full time staff and, you know, there's one person, their average reimbursement rate you put that in 125 was just what I put in, do 25 sessions a week for 48 weeks a year. Does the math for you on what your gross income will be. and then if you have an admin, let's say working three hours a week, they're getting 25 an hour for 48 weeks.

Joe Sanok 00:14:28  How much does that cost? if you have to pay for supervision or consultation, you know, hour per week, and then your time is an owner. I like to parse that out because then, you know, as you move out of doing the clinical work, it's like whether it was you or paying someone to be a CEO, we want to be able to kind of factor that in as well. then you just put in all your different budgeting things. You can put in more, and then you put in here how much you want either yourself to make per hour or what you'd be paying someone. So if you're paying a clinician, you know, say $50 per session, then that ends up being 60 grand a year. if you're putting money into, say, retirement or other things, but then you can also toggle it to do a percentage. So, you know, if I want 40% takeaway, if I want 50%, if I wanted to give them 75%, and then it breaks it all down for you up here where the total amount, of profit per clinician.

Joe Sanok 00:15:13  So if say, we multiply this and said I have, you know, if I had four people doing this, then it automatically updates and kind of tells you how much you would make, whereas if it was just you or one clinician, then what's the net profit beyond what you would make as an owner and beyond what you would make as a clinician? So it's nice to kind of think about yourself as an owner that is taking an owner disbursement and owner for time for working and then a clinician so that you recognize you have three different roles that you get to choose. If you want to be in all three of those roles, even if you're just in solo practice. so just wanted to share that tool with you guys. so, keep those questions coming in. and go ahead and raise your hands. we've got a few comments coming in. Believes that as a mom and former teacher, I love where your heart is. That is awesome info right there. so, okay, so let's talk where you're at right now in private practice.

Joe Sanok 00:16:03  Nicholas. if you think about from February till now, just take us through that journey, the ups and downs. and, and I'm sure we'll have follow up questions from there.

Speaker 3 00:16:13  Sure. Yes. So, like I said, back in February, I made the decision to start and, you know, it was it was through looking at, you know, a calculator, kind of like the one that you just showed where I had to run the numbers. And I was like, okay, you know, I should be able to do this. you know, if I, if I just play my numbers. Right. So what I decided was, I'm going to start my private practice while I'm still working in my community agency full time. And I figured I could take on about, you know, 1 to 4 clients before I would feel too burnt out through both of those jobs. before I would have to cut down to part time at the agency. So, so that's what I did. I kind of put it out there that I had started my, private practice, and, I got my first client through a former supervisor that I had through my internship.

Speaker 3 00:17:05  She sent somebody my way. In fact, she sent two people my way. So that's kind of how I started. And they were both private pay. I started by giving the, the first person that came in. I gave her a pretty low rate. Just 50 bucks an hour. mostly just saying. Hey, I'm working out the kinks here. You know, if you can be patient with me, then, you know, I wanted to to give her that experience. And so I.

Joe Sanok 00:17:29  Started with about with the agency. So because I know we've had people in here where they work in very safe agencies that are like, yeah, go do that. They're open about that. They're encouraging. There's other ones where it's like you got to kind of be quieter about it. It's not against the contract, but also there's, you know, some weird ego stuff going on. For your experience, how did you manage that in building that concurrently while you were at the agency?

Speaker 3 00:17:53  Yeah. So I think part of it was, I had made it clear from the start, you know, like, hey, my, my goal is to open a private practice at some point.

Speaker 3 00:18:01  And so, you know, the supervisor that I worked with and, you know, the CEO of the company, they knew that's where I was at. And so it was just a matter of, a matter of time. And then I remember I was nervous to to reach out and be like, hey, I'm going to take this step, but I don't I don't want to, like, you know, have any bad blood between us. And so, essentially what I, what I asked was, hey, like, you know, what, what would this transition look like? are you okay with this? And essentially they said, yeah. I mean, you know, if you're going to be taking on your own clients, you know, that that's perfectly fine. Just make sure it doesn't impact the client care that you have through us. so that was their big thing. Was, you know, go ahead and do what you need to do, but it's going to be on you to manage that responsibility of providing good client care to everybody.

Joe Sanok 00:18:48  so awesome. So then, so that was 1 to 4 clients. Then what comes after that?

Speaker 3 00:18:53  Yeah. So once I hit that number of like, okay, I've got enough clients. and again, I was kind of calculating and running the numbers this whole time. I made the leap to, to go part time at the agency. And so, once I figured out I was like, okay, I can I can cut down and just see 15 clients per week through the agency while I build up my private practice. you know, I'm going to be able to do that for a little while. all the numbers they checked out, they made sense. And so in May of this year is when I decided to go part time with, with my agency. And, that was scary. And, really was it was seeing my income, like, you know, go from what it was to being suddenly half of that. And then realizing that, you know, my private practice is the thing that has to make up the deficit.

Speaker 3 00:19:43  I think part of what helped was having a solid, you know, I'd saved up enough money to be able to kind of float myself through this process. so that psychologically made things a little bit easier. so that was that was an important part. And, that's also when I signed on with alma, so that I could start taking insurance as well. And, so, you know, once, once I did that, I had four clients. up until about August of this year. So all summer I was operating my private practice off of for clients. with the part time work, too.

Joe Sanok 00:20:19  And then where are you at now?

Speaker 3 00:20:21  So right now I'm at about 8 to 10 clients per week. so what I noticed is that the referrals come in. It feels. And I think this is just based on how my, you know, kind of how my marketing is right now and what referral sources are providing clients for me. There's like this wave pattern that seems to be happening where, based on when I'm kind of getting rotated to the front of, you know, the directories that I'm on, that's when I'm getting these referrals.

Speaker 3 00:20:52  So I had a wave in August that took me from 4 to 10. and I'm anticipating another wave here in about a month, a month and a half or so, just again, based on the timing of it all. So we'll see that parts that that part, you know, causes me a little bit of butterflies where it's like, you know, I'm I'm still learning about how, you know, profit and income and referrals are coming into my business. so but my plan is once I hit 15 clients through my private practice, then I'm going to let go of the, the part time agency.

Speaker 4 00:21:25  Awesome.

Joe Sanok 00:21:26  couple of questions specifically for you. And then we've got some that will be for, for bellezza as well. do you feel Alma's been worth the investment? Are you receiving a lot of referrals from them?

Speaker 3 00:21:35  And do you feel it's been worth the investment. you know, I'm, I part of building up kind of that nest egg to sort of float myself through the, through the beginning part of my private practice was the willingness to try things, the willingness to to sort of just, you know, put a bunch of things out there and, start collecting some data on where the returns are coming in.

Speaker 3 00:21:56  And one of those things that really helped give me the confidence to start my private practice in the first place was knowing there is something like alma, where within a pretty short amount of time, you can get paneled with the insurance and start getting referrals that way. So I would say.

Joe Sanok 00:22:11  They are my sponsors. I do want to disclose that, but we only take on sponsors that we've vetted. they'll get you credentialed within 45 days and have a two week turnaround with your finances. I mean, we're only hearing good things about them. but, you know, of course, let us know if that's not your your case. a couple quick questions that have come in for both of you. are your practices virtual or in-person or both?

Beliza Perez 00:22:33  Mostly in-person. I do like some virtual supervision. Once in a while I'll do like virtual parenting sessions at the convenience of the parents schedule. Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:22:43  I do both. pretty much 5050 right now.

Joe Sanok 00:22:47  Sweet. are we able to access the wage calculator? Yes. So that's actually one of the bonuses that we're giving away when anyone levels up.

Joe Sanok 00:22:55  And if you are a member already, we're going to give you access to that too. So that's something we've been there's been more behind the scenes kinks than I thought. So, we we finally are ready to roll that out for y'all. to have have access to that, when you sign up. let's see other questions. yeah. Let's talk. Bellezza, why don't you kick this one off? what advertising profiles are you using? And I would actually add a follow up question to that too. Beyond just advertising profiles like Psychology Today. Are you putting money into marketing anywhere else?

Beliza Perez 00:23:22  Got it. So, I have an a Psychology Today profile that I kind of turn on and off, to be honest with you, because sometimes I get referrals, sometimes I don't. So it really just, and that kind of just I haven't been able to gauge. Like, what determines that? I have a Google My business page, which is free, and I do a lot of stuff on there. I post on there twice a week, you know, periodically Google reviews.

Beliza Perez 00:23:49  And that's the free stuff I have done. the paid, ads. I've tried that a couple different times. and that has been hit or miss as well. but I also worked with my web designer, and he was also really helpful on helping me to do some of the, paid advertising at a point. so things like that. paid wise, I've also tried good therapy, therapy, tribes, and those didn't really work for me just because I get in my niche. Child therapy, I would get a lot of referrals for like teens, adults, couples. And I'm like, well, that's not my niche. So, I didn't I got off those, directories.

Joe Sanok 00:24:32  The paid direct, tele wellness hub at all?

Beliza Perez 00:24:36  I'm not sure.

Joe Sanok 00:24:38  Yeah. So that's another good one that people seem to be getting some traction because they include, CTV ads like on Hulu and other things as part of your membership and also getting like this, like kind of extra stuff too. Nicolas, what about you? Are you paying for any, user profiles or ads or things like that?

Speaker 3 00:24:56  Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:24:57  So I'm currently on site today. Zen Care and my resource, those are the directories that I'm using right now. I have had the majority of my clients come through Psychology today, so that's where most of the referrals are coming from right now. The others are coming through alma. So those are the two that I have. But I'm also investing in Google ads. I committed, $300 a month, for an ad campaign through them. I'm currently working on, you know, putting together that ad word, sort of working out the kinks. And, I invested in a website, and, so I do blogs through that in order to help increase SEO. and then I also invested in some business cards, and I've just been going around to coffee shops and dropping them off. and, and then also, reaching out for, networking. So I'm, you know, calling people, emailing them, asking to take them out for coffee and, those are, those are the ways that right now that I'm trying to put myself out there.

Joe Sanok 00:25:59  Awesome.

Beliza Perez 00:26:00  Sorry. Sorry. That might be worth it. I also invested in the beginning of the year about $300. There's a local group. Oviedo is a very small area, is very family orientated. So I'm on a lot of their Facebook pages. And one of them, she's like the mayor of the city and, you know, pseudo. And so she was doing an advertising special. So I advertised on there for the year. And basically I'm the main therapist that comes up. and also gotten some traction because even though people may not directly, want to work with me, they're like, oh, look for your kid. So that's been a good one to have as well.

Joe Sanok 00:26:34  Yeah. You know, that reminds me also of, so a lot of like, Chamber of Commerce is, you know, it's like 200 bucks a year to be a part of it. But you get to go to all these, like, exclusive business events, and then oftentimes they'll have, like a really nice conference room that can seat 50 or 100 people.

Joe Sanok 00:26:49  and oftentimes in many cities, you can then use that for free. So if you wanted to do like a lunch and learn or something like that, that's aimed at business people to kind of host it yourself. that's something also to look at investing in. I am so excited about Almah. When I had my private practice, I struggled building my caseload, attracting the right clients, managing the business side. And honestly, one of the reasons I didn't take insurance was it was so difficult to navigate. So many of my consulting clients deal with these problems as well, and almost supports clinicians in building rewarding private practices with simplified insurance credentialing in under 45 days, enhanced reimbursement rates, and guaranteed two week payback, plus a free profile in their searchable filter directory, making it easy for clients who are the right fit for your practice to find you. Learn more about how alma could support your private practice at. Hello, alma. Com forward slash Jo. That's hello alma.com/jo to learn more. there's a couple of questions.

Joe Sanok 00:28:04  So, Psychology Today is not a sponsor. but they did give us a link to give you guys six months for free. So if you don't yet have a Psychology Today profile or you're making one with a new email, there's a link for that. It's just practice with the practice.com/psychology today. And then that was tele wellness hub. so tele wellness hub.com I put that also that link in the chat. yeah. So it's similar to a Psychology Today, but it's aimed at wellness professionals that are online. So tele wellness. So there's other people that are online. And then you also get free CTV ads. And we've actually been doing that for about a year with practice and practice. And we probably get 5 to 10 new referrals a month from, from our ad. And it's literally I have like a, just a video of me saying, hey, I'm Joe Saanich. This is what I do with practice. The practice. Like if you want resources, head on over to practice, practice. And then they scan the QR code, just like you see on any Hulu TV show or things like that.

Joe Sanok 00:28:57  except it goes to your therapy practice. So, really cool differentiator that a lot of the directories aren't offering. So all right, let's see. great questions coming in again. if you just joined us, raise your hand if you want to go back and forth. Sometimes there might be some questions that you have, that you think that maybe our panel needs to have a little more information than just your question in the chat. So if you want that, just virtually raise your hand, hit that react button. And then underneath there it has raised hand. And it's always fun to talk face to face with people, or screen to screen with people. Next question. and, Nicholas, why don't we have you kick this one off? how have you shifted to keep it from taking up more time? Like, how do you make your practice? Not just, like, take over your brain?

Speaker 3 00:29:38  Yeah, well, you know, I think part of part of what has been such a joy is the fact that, it's it's it's been a very exciting experience.

Speaker 3 00:29:47  Starting my private practice. I've noticed that I feel, you know, rejuvenated sometimes when I'm, when I'm working. and I enjoy just kind of fixating on, you know, like, marketing things and messing around with my budget and, you know, writing blogs and things like that. So, so part of it is I enjoyed putting the time into the practice. and sometimes it's not like that. So, I, I've really had to focus more on being intentional with my keeping up with my, my activities. you know, like, getting outside. finally, it's cooling down here in Arizona, so I can actually go outside. and spending time with friends and, you know, really, it's making sure that I'm filling myself up so that I have the energy to maintain both the private or the private practice and the part time agency.

Joe Sanok 00:30:40  What about you? How do you make it that take over your brain?

Beliza Perez 00:30:43  so I'll be honest, in the beginning I was obsessed with my practice. I slept at eight.

Beliza Perez 00:30:48  It was all private practice. And then I got myself sick and then reality hit. And then I realized that work life balance is a thing, and it's important. And I'm the vessel, so I can't give anything from an empty vessel or a leaking vessel. So it's really, it's everything. So I wake up early, I meditate, I wake up early, I do yoga stretches. Sometimes it's hanging out with my chickens, you know, like, literally just a few minutes to start the day off, right? Your business, it's important to you. Like, I love what I do. It can very easily take over. So you have to have the work, you know? What is the sane work Smart play. Always, like, really just, investing in that balance because it can take over and then all of a sudden your life is work and that's not life.

Joe Sanok 00:31:38  Yeah. I think I think it's really important to have some hard boundaries and some soft boundaries. And by that, hard boundaries are things that are non-negotiable.

Joe Sanok 00:31:45  So, I'm never checking email. you know, after 330 unless, like, there's a couple things where I want Jen to text me if my attorney sends me a message, or if, you know, I'm in the middle of, like, buying some real estate if there's some real estate stuff. other than that, it's like I don't check email after hours. you know, I don't take clients on Fridays. I wrote a book about the four day workweek. Like, I'm not going to have a consulting client on a Friday, so having those very clear boundaries. I think the other thing is just being aware when you're with your partner or when you're with friends of how much you're talking about your business. So, Claire, my partner, you know, if we're on a date, we just hired her, to be our conference planner for the group practice boss conference. It was really funny because I texted her and said, hey, do you know anyone on this good at planning events and things like that? She's like, I did that for three years.

Joe Sanok 00:32:35  I'm like, oh, sorry, I forgot. so then she and Sam and Jen, interviewed her or they all interviewed. And so she's planning this conference, so it would be very easy on a date to just be like, oh, like, how's the group practice boss conference going? Like, I can't wait for next May. And, like, that would be our whole date. And that then feels like work instead of a separation. And so even if you haven't hired your partner or haven't hired your friends, I think that can take over sometimes. And it's like being clear about, okay, yeah, I want to share the exciting parts of my world. But also, if we spend a whole dinner brainstorming about blogging like that doesn't feel like a dinner out. Yep. what's your biggest time suck? bellezza, why don't we start with you?

Beliza Perez 00:33:17  Oh, my gosh, biggest time suck. it's going to be probably emails. Even though my assistant helps me with a lot of it. It's like really siphoning through the emails that like, need a response, don't need a response, or like it can wait.

Beliza Perez 00:33:31  so because, you know, you get a lot of people asking questions, inquiring, you know, offers. So it's like, what do I say yes to? And what do I say no to?

Joe Sanok 00:33:41  Yeah. Nicholas, what about you?

Speaker 3 00:33:43  Yeah, I would say, you know, this is this is something that's familiar, not just to people in private practice, but I think just being a clinician. And that would be notes. so I'm always looking for ways of, being a little bit more efficient with my note taking, but it continues to be just that thing that sometimes gets pushed to the end of the day. and so, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm always looking for ways of making that a little bit easier on myself. but yeah, notetaking for sure.

Joe Sanok 00:34:11  Maybe, Jen or Sarah could look for this while we're talking. there was someone I interviewed I think we had him on ask the expert around AI helping with note taking in a HIPAA compliant way where it listens to the session, gives you a summary, but it doesn't store it in any capacity because that's been the problem where some of those organizations have been hacked.

Joe Sanok 00:34:30  And, you know, we just heard about a huge hack that happened recently with, I forgot which EHR it was. I think, God, it wasn't therapy notes. So. Oh, yeah, but it was it was like, I mean, so that happens, but so, we'll try to find that for, for you, Nicholas. because it sounds like people are saving 5 to 10 hours a week just on, like, having it, like, summarize the notes for you. So, Yeah, I'm with you. Those are a lot of things there. So the next question, and, Nicholas, I think because you're newer to practice, why don't we aim this one at you? How long did it take you to get referrals from Psychology Today? this person hasn't received any in the last three months.

Speaker 3 00:35:04  Sure. So, again, what I've noticed is there's this kind of, like, wave pattern here that happens. And I would say I got I got maybe two when I first signed up, you know, back in March and and then there was nothing until, August through site today.

Speaker 3 00:35:23  And then I got, I think I had like maybe eight people within the span of one week reach out. And I was like, whoa, okay, so this is how it's going to be. so I, I would say there's, there's these, these big spikes and then there's these lulls when specifically it comes to Psychology Today and talking to other clinicians, that's seems to be their feeling as well when it comes to things coming through Psychology Today.

Speaker 4 00:35:50  Yeah.

Joe Sanok 00:35:51  You know, one thing I always encourage people to do with any advertising is to say like, so let's take Psychology Today. I think it's 29 bucks a month or so. So over three years you're going to spend $1,044. So, Nicholas, what's your full fee rate when someone's paying privately, if you don't mind disclosing?

Speaker 3 00:36:07  Yeah, 150 bucks.

Joe Sanok 00:36:09  Okay, so if we take that number by $150. So that means that if, if Nicholas gets one person every three years, that comes for 6.96 sessions or seven sessions. this is going to pay for itself.

Joe Sanok 00:36:23  and so I think sometimes it can be like, I don't I don't get any referrals, but it's like, if Nicholas gets one person that comes seven times like today is cost positive. Do we think that one person will come seven times with Nicholas? I mean, I'll ask you, Nicholas, do you think that one person will come seven times in the next three years due to Psychology Today?

Speaker 3 00:36:40  Yeah, it's happened, and I think psych today has already paid for itself for a number of years to come. Right? So.

Joe Sanok 00:36:45  Right. And so any time we have marketing to me, I think it's important to like think through that sort of thing of, okay, how much will this cost me over not just a month or two, like, okay, 29 bucks a month, but to say, okay, if I did this three years and really committed to it, we can say Google ads, okay, if I spend 300 bucks a month in Google ads and I do that for 2 or 3 years, like, what do I have to do to get that money back? Melissa, I think because you've been in this a little longer, why don't we have this one be for you? any tips on the, Yeah, I've got this, too.

Joe Sanok 00:37:14  Oh, no. What have I done? Roller coaster.

Beliza Perez 00:37:17  Oh my gosh. Yes. So you need to find the thing that works for you. Like is it mantras? Is it the meditations? Like I have a few like actually did it before this, this presentation on Instagram, these big motivational videos that always hype me up. and I listen to those before anything big, you know, like focus on your dream, believe in yourself. You know, don't worry about what anybody else is doing. Get it done. You've got this. So for everybody it's a little bit different. And having a support system that also cheers you on. If you're in a room full of people who are doubting you and they're like, oh, what are you doing? Like, no one's the no one does that. You need to get into a different room and really have a support system that like, they don't don't my part life partner doesn't understand anything that I do. He's an engineer, but he supports me.

Beliza Perez 00:38:04  He cheers me. He's like, you go, girl, you go get it. You need that. Those people around you because it's hard and it can be lonely if you're in a solo practice. So really finding what works for you, what motivates you and who helps you as well.

Joe Sanok 00:38:19  Next question we have here. and this would be more for Nicholas. I've heard of Clawbacks with insurance. How do they do that? And what can stop it from happening?

Speaker 3 00:38:28  Well, that's the beauty of alma is that's not on you. so in my experience working with alma, I've never even had to think about whether or not I'm going to get paid. every two weeks, I get, you know, I get a direct deposit into my account from alma for all the sessions that I've done. And it's billing literally takes about 10s to to input the billing code into Alma's system. And then I'm done with it. So I am currently, trying to get on Blue Claw, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, for myself.

Speaker 3 00:39:00  And I'm going to be hiring a biller to take care of that. So, yeah, my, the advice that I've heard is, you know, if it's not what you want to be focusing on throughout your week, which I don't want to be focusing on arguing with. Billers, just outsource it. So, that's that's the tactic that I'm taking.

Joe Sanok 00:39:19  Yeah. Do what you do best and outsource the rest. All right. next question. please. Why don't you kick this off? How do you find the motivation for the balance of self-care? I find myself getting stuck in the. Oh, I don't have time for self-care. Or now I'm burned out and demoralized. Now I have no energy or motivation for anything, much less self-care cycle. And the practice is a major excuse for keeping me in this cycle.

Beliza Perez 00:39:44  Yes, I say baby steps. I tell everybody if it's two minutes, like I'm sipping coffee and staring out the window. If it's five minutes, like, you know, I'm just sitting there and like, you know, listening to music, baby steps.

Beliza Perez 00:39:55  People think like, self-care has to be five hours long. I mean, start with two minutes, three minutes. I set timers on my thing to sit. Sometimes I'm sitting for seven minutes. I'm just going to sit and breathe and just look out the window just to relax. so baby steps and I put everything in my calendar, sometimes literally like a loan time for ten minutes is in the calendar. Just like appointments, just like all the other things, that has to be a priority. And before you know it, it becomes just normal. It becomes like, okay, this is just what I'm doing, you know, for this ten, 15, however many minutes.

Joe Sanok 00:40:29  Yeah. You know, I talked about the plus one minus one exercise yesterday in the time management presentation. That exercise is the idea of building out the menu of things that help you bounce back, back or help you. Instead of recovering from the week and recuperating, you're preparing for the future week through your weekend. And so the idea is adding something to your schedule for the weekend that you think might make you feel a little bit better or removing something.

Joe Sanok 00:40:52  So that's the plus one minus one. And then just seeing how you feel like if you spend half an hour reading and drinking green tea on a Saturday morning and telling your kids or your partner, whoever's in your life to leave you alone unless it's an emergency, do you actually feel better when you do that? and I think the other thing to think through is we think of self-care. And I would actually say that there's other words we could use beyond self-care. but just when we slow down, we have better business ideas. And so there's a business argument for slowing down, for getting a massage, for sitting quietly, for going for a walk. We then do better work, more creative work, and make fewer mistakes. And the research shows all of that. And so slowing down isn't just about self-care. It's not the selfish act. It actually is a good business decision as well. I think when you make that switch, I realized that by me having a four day weekend and being done by 330 every day, I have much better ideas to level up than if I was stressed out and maxed out.

Speaker 4 00:41:46  Correct.

Joe Sanok 00:41:46  All right. I think we've covered some of this, but any other quick tips on how to minimize the busy work? Nicholas, you talked about outsourcing things. any other things that either of you have to just help with the busy work?

Beliza Perez 00:42:00  I like to do what Jill taught this a long time ago. I forget what it's called. You set a timer for 20 minutes, and you get as much done in 20 minutes. Decide. Okay. Do I need a break? Can I keep going? I do a lot of that these days, especially as I'm launching Kid cards and time is becoming even more important. So a lot of times it's how much can I get done in X amount of minutes? and you'll be surprised when you just focus and you're doing something for 20 minutes what actually gets done. And it can be a lot awesome.

Speaker 3 00:42:30  And I, I would say, evaluate what you would consider to be busywork because if it feels like it's it's just busy work. I guess the implication is it's not valuable.

Speaker 3 00:42:41  So maybe take stock of what you are investing your time in. And if you're finding that it's, you know, you're not getting that return of investment, you're not going to be motivated to do that work. But if you are seeing the return, it's probably not going to feel as much like busy work.

Speaker 4 00:42:56  Awesome.

Joe Sanok 00:42:58  I just, looked up the I note taker, it's called blueprint is the one who I had met with, but there's a lot of them out there, and a lot of the EHRs now, are starting to embed that within it. blueprints one. But then I also put a bunch of the podcast that, Jen and Sarah got together, that are on AI, entrepreneurship, things like that. so if any of those podcasts look interesting to you and awesome, let's see, what's the average time it takes in your members to level up? So, Daniela, that's a great question. I think, it really depends on a few factors. So, I would say most people are as full as they want to be within 4 to 6 months.

Joe Sanok 00:43:36  then it's deciding, do I want to level up into a group practice or do I want to have a sustainable solo practice? Some people's life situation or just their personality is I want to solo practice for a while. I want to let this ride and just, like, be in a community of people, within that sustainable solo practice community, other people, we have some people that, they just joined the cohort in the spring and they started their practice and they're ready. I think we had just had 4 or 5 people that leveled up into group practice launch. so that's within six months. so they they ran right through next level practice. They're leveling up into group practice, launch. They're going to go through that six month program, then join group practice boss, and then they may end up doing consulting to expand even beyond that. so I think it depends on what leveling up, how that's defined. but typically, you know, by the next cohort for group practice launch, most people are ready to do that if they want to.

Joe Sanok 00:44:29  that's why we do it every six months. We are getting more demand where we might do new cohorts every three months. just because we have people outside of here that already have a sustainable solo practice and they're like, okay, I am ready now to add someone. So we may add more, more cohorts, but we aren't at that point yet. awesome. Let's see other questions. oh. Nicholas, thank you for answering that Blue Cross question with alma. Oh, I see a great question. Due to life circumstances, I can't really seek a full caseload right now. What else can I do? What else can I be doing to set up my practice to to set my practice up strong? you know, what are what are some things to build that infrastructure if, if they can't really be doing a full caseload right now.

Beliza Perez 00:45:11  Get your name out there. Get your name out there. If you are not out there, you don't exist. So having a strong website, networking, whether that's virtually or in person with people and communities, you need to get your name out there.

Beliza Perez 00:45:26  and people need to know you exist and what you do, what you offer, and you'll be surprised once you start seeing clients. what word of mouth can do?

Speaker 4 00:45:35  Awesome.

Joe Sanok 00:45:36  Nicholas, what would you add to that?

Speaker 3 00:45:37  I would say, yeah. Build up your support system. So find those people who are, you know, where you want to eventually be with your practice, and start to, start to meet with them and, you know, get build those relationships, build that community. Cool.

Joe Sanok 00:45:53  so go ahead and, give a reaction to our panelists, find a reaction. I'm going to say the rocket ship. I've been liking that because we're taking off. real oh, just a couple other things. so to that question about the caseload, I say also raise your rates when you're 60% full. That's when you should be raising your rates for your private pay people and jump up by at least $25 per session. So do that throughout the year with new people. And then at New Years, you're going to realign.

Joe Sanok 00:46:22  So send a letter to them in November saying, hey, my new rate on January 1st is this I want you to plan for your HSA and flexible spending, and then just do that again and just keep raising it. I've had clinicians that thought they were at the top of their market. I had one guy in Orange County that was at 425 session, and we got him up to $800 a session. And so it can work if you're specialized and known in the community. one last question that just came in. When you say you can have a full caseload in 4 to 6 months, is that with insurance or private pay? what we're seeing is that and I say as full as you want to be. So some people their fullest ten, some people their fullest 30. typically that's going to be, either one. I do think it's a little more challenging when you're fully private pay, but it just takes better marketing, better kind of getting out there and learning those sorts of things. So as long as you're showing up to the events you're doing that 3 to 1.

Joe Sanok 00:47:10  pretty much if people do the 3 to 1 where they're showing up for themselves, they get there. All right. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for all those, we didn't get into Belize's, kids connection cards that are coming out. Make sure you check out kid, connections.com. she has these really awesome cards that she's launching in the next couple of months. We've been working together on it. They're beautiful. They're just, like, so cool. So they'll be ready for the holidays. That's what we're hoping for. yes. The, the China printers. So, make sure you check out those kid connections. It's going to be awesome for you and your clients to be an awesome gift for your your highest level clients. So, thanks, everybody for coming by, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to the Level Up Week series. I hope you are getting so much help out of this. If you need extra help, head on over to practice of the practice.com forward slash. Apply.

Joe Sanok 00:48:07  I would love to spend 30 minutes brainstorming with you as to your phase of practice, and helping you determine whether a membership, community, or consulting is right for you. Again, that's practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. And we couldn't do the show without our amazing sponsors. Head on over to Alma's website. Hello alma. Com slash Jo if you want help with credentialing, if you want help with reimbursement rates and a guaranteed two week payback again that's hello alma.com/jo. Thank you for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band. Silence is sexy for that intro music. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.