[JOE SANOK] This is the Practice of the Practice Podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 774. I’m Joe Sanok, your host, and welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. I am so glad that you’re here today. We are talking all about starting, growing and scaling and even sometimes exiting your private practice. This whole Level Up Series has been so fun to talk to people that have had solo practices, group practices, have leveled up into things outside of private practice, just focusing on level up just because we want to see you level up. But also, September 12th kicks off Level Up Week for us, which is going to be, we have over 15 webinars that are going on that week, and we’re adding more every single day as we connect with people on so many different topics. We have Instagram influencers coming in that are going to show us some of the behind-the-scene hacks. In fact, Dana, who I interviewed about Instagram recently she told me about how to make money off my reels and throughout all of Slow Down School, I kept posting all these reels and telling the group, “Hey, I just made another few dollars off of my reel I was going to post.” Anyway, I learned that from her. She’s going to be coming. Also Nancy, my writing coach is going to be coming and talking about getting a traditionally published book. So it’s going to be killers, so make sure you sign up over at practiceofthepractice.com/levelup. There are all the webinars right there for Level Up Week. We’re also doing some giveaways and we’re going to be making sure that we have a lot of fun that week. I remember when I first started my private practice, this guy Nick, he and I both had solo practices. We had just got going, but we were the only younger private practitioners in the LPCs of Northern Michigan. Everyone else was a handful of years before retirement. There’s a couple CMH people that came, but they weren’t in private practice. So we’d get coffee once a month or so and just talk about what was working. I remember when he said, “There’s this new thing called Psychology Today.” I was like, “Like the magazine?” He’s like, “Yes, but they have a directory site.” The first week I signed up I got three clients from it. So I’m so excited today we’re going to be talking with Marta Hamilton who’s going to be talking about directory sites, about what’s wrong with them right now, but not just that, but how she has leveled up. Marta is a wellness professional with a multidisciplinary background, including certifications as a licensed professional counselor, supervisor, yoga instructor, and holistic health practitioner. She’s been a telehealth provider and entrepreneur since 2016, and her latest venture TeleWellness Hub is a premium directory website designed for the modern wellness expert to authentically and easily showcase who they are, all they do and all their digital content. Marta, I am so excited to have you here on the Practice of the Practice podcast. [MARTA HAMILTON] Hi, Joe. Excited to be here. [JOE] Yes, I mean we just saw each other the other day at Slow Down School, so it feels like a continuation of Slow Down School conversations. [MARTA] I was just about to say that [JOE] Oh my gosh, sorry for stealing your thunder. So you were part of that group that was seeing me do all these reels and announcing how I was getting paid for it. [MARTA] Yes. Got to learn a lot, lots of cool, like selfie stick moments and learned a lot just actually watching that and I’m excited to incorporate it so. [JOE] Well, and even there’s a moment on that last day when we were at Cherry Republic and we were celebrating and you were doing some testimonials for me about just like, what it’s like to do one-on-one consulting and come to Slow Down School. Then we did this one-minute reel for you about what TeleWellness Hub is, and it was like we had a countdown and it’s in what, four days, we’ve got over 7,000 views of this video? It’s just amazing. [MARTA] Yes, amazing. Amazing. I did feel like I was kicked off the nest, like go out there, do some social media, do your reels. So it was a good moment, but it was unreal to see that it’s just very motivating to continue, continue to work [JOE] When we were driving back from Leland, we looked at it in the van and within just a few hours it was what, like 2000 or 3000 views already? [MARTA] It was two hours. It was incredible [JOE] Oh my gosh. [MARTA] I’m very grateful. [JOE] Well, I want to hear more about how’d you get into counseling? What was your private practice like for you? I love hearing people that have a wellness approach and yoga. How did all those worlds merge for you in the world of private practice? [MARTA] Well, I got into private practice. Originally, I thought I wanted to be an attorney, but was asked to be involved in some research in undergrad, and I was just fascinated by research, by data, by numbers. It led me to want to study psychology. I found a graduate program in health psychology that allowed me to have licensure in the state of Texas as an LPC, but also as an LPA doing testing. So for a while after graduate school, I was doing neuropsychic testing and I moved to different cities and started getting the opportunity to work counseling, working with kids, doing ABA. All along this time yoga was basically like my therapy, one of my avenues to make me just really clear my mind and show up to be an ideal therapist for my clients. So I love that yoga could be done anywhere and took that with me along from undergraduate to now. Eventually, I decided to start a private practice. I stumbled upon Practice of the Practice during those days, I think I’ve told you that, I think it was 2014, so long time follower [JOE] The early and often dorky years of practice. Not that I’m not still a dork [MARTA] I am a nerd myself, so I loved all of it. I was like, yes. I incorporated a lot of those things into my private practice, which my private practice, I was really motivated to start it because I had babies, one year old twins. I wanted freedom in my time in my practice and that’s when I set out to start a private practice. One thing led to another, got really busy and started a group practice and worked again through Practice of the Practice for that. We had five providers from a yoga instructor that specialized working with couples to a neuropsychologist. I really love a multi-disciplinarian approach. In the past I had worked with naturopathic doctors, reiki masters, and I decided when Covid hit and everything went online, including my group practice, I decided this is the time to level up, if you will, and reach even more of an audience of people who are trying to either implement a modern wellness approach or get access to a modern wellness provider. [JOE] I want to definitely get to that, but let’s go back to when you had a solo practice. When you were growing your solo practice, how did you brand yourself? Did you incorporate yoga and holistic thinking into that or was that separate worlds that had yet to collide? Like how did you develop that solo practice and to get full enough that eventually it could be a group practice? [MARTA] My private practice, I actually started in Houston, so moved states. Also that leads to why I made TeleWellness later. But I was involved in research on mindfulness and yoga through a Ph.D. program that I was in at University of Houston and I just saw how great the research was. I felt the benefits of yoga and breath work and mindfulness and getting to see it start being researched since we have the technology now to do a lot of research on, on the techniques within mindfulness and yoga practices, for example. I just decided that this was a really great opportunity to speak to my clients that although I did not have at that time training and certification in yoga, I did in mindfulness, thanks to a wonderful clinic out in Houston Heights of Health and the University of Houston graduate program that was doing research in that field. That in and of itself, I think branding myself as someone who implemented mindfulness techniques, I started there with research in that and giving clients tools that they can utilize anywhere, anytime that were free, especially breath work. That worked from everywhere, from the population, from children to adults. I think that was part of my branding at the time. Now my private practice, I started my first one under my name. I later knew I wanted to have a group and created a different name but my branding I used your blog and I found a lot of the free images and different things and techniques and referral codes, and I knew I wanted to speak to clients who were interested in a whole-body approach. [JOE] So for people that maybe are starting a practice right now or have dreams of starting a practice and they have a holistic mindset and whole body approach, what quick tips would you give them as they’re looking to level up? [MARTA] I would say a really great tip is to collaborate, to reach out, to get involved in the community. Now there are so many amazing online communities where you can have direct connection with other wellness professionals. I was very fortunate because I had a mentorship at a naturopathic doctor’s clinic in Houston where I gained, and she asked me to co-create a behavioral division so that clients would come into the office and want to see a counselor or a nutritionist and I was able to meet face-to-face, learn a lot from other experts out there. I think that’s something that’s really helpful. I dove into the research. I also dove into community with other wellness providers. I learned a lot from other people and I think just genuine interest will naturally attract the right clients for you. It’ll naturally just motivate you to seek out more and offer more for your clients to, and referral system networks just flowed really easily because of that. [JOE] What about, when did you realize that it was time to level up into a group practice? Was there a moment or did it just, was it a slow trickle? [MARTA] I would say it was a little bit of a slow trickle because when you first open up your private practice, I remember I rented the space, I had the EHR, I put up a directory profile and it’s like, I hope people come. So it was a little bit of a slow trickle at first. Pretty soon word of mouth spread. I also am a big believer in face-to-face meetings so I went to pediatrician’s offices, set up appointments with office managers, let people know what I was doing and where my passions were and those connections led to referrals. Pretty soon I was so busy that I thought I want to be able to have more time with my kids because I have toddlers at this point in time and I believe there’s an abundance of work and I’ve put in some years now to learn how to start a private practice. I want to help others who maybe want to do community health work, but also venture out to see what it’s like to have a private practice on the weekends or in the evenings or one day a week. So slowly that’s what happened. I had contractors who wanted a few hours a week and they also filled a niche in areas in which I did not have training or experience in. So then I really felt like we could be a one clinic where we can provide any client their ideal treatment plan and path to sense of wellness. [JOE] Then when you were dreaming about growing a group did you always dream of having a diverse types of people there? Or like how did you conceptualize what you wanted the group to look like? [MARTA] Yes. I always loved the idea of being a group practice where someone can call and likely receive the ideal provider for them and what they were seeking and if not, then refer out to others in the community. I’m a big believer in that. So at first I sought out to offer testing. I knew testing was something that I wanted to offer, so started with testing and then counselors, and counselors specifically that were trained in modalities that I was not, so EMDR, trauma-focused CBT. Also I live in the border, so I wanted to offer counseling that was both bilingual but also bicultural. We had providers that are dual citizens and really speak to the culture of our potential clients. Then also incorporated telehealth in my group practice back in 2016, because I had a lot of busy professionals and I wanted them to have access to their counseling services or wellness programs without having to sacrifice having to find a sitter or drive late at night. Sometimes they had late unpredictable schedules if court runs late or surgery is delayed. So I wanted to incorporate not just many types of counselor certifications and specializations, but also modalities, so telehealth, group practice. We also had groups, individual counseling sessions. I just believed in diversifying to make it accessible to all. [JOE] When you thought about whether it was pricing or insurance or things like that, how did you think through the actual logistics to make it accessible to all? Because a lot of times holistic services are an upwardly mobile affluent, often white community that has access to living a whole-body life. I’m not saying that is always true. Oftentimes, it’s pulling from indigenous cultures and then often whitewashing those things. So like, how did you think through really genuinely saying, I want this to be open to all while realizing that’s, there’s also a dynamic there in regards to privilege? [MARTA] Right. No, absolutely. I’m so glad that you speak on that because I did know that when I opened my group practice, I wanted to offer options to underrepresented populations and I did accept Medicaid and worked with children also so that families would come into. I think I wanted to offer the same experience. My group practice, I was really focused on the experience I wanted to, everything from the design of the space to the tea and the water offered for everybody. I wanted them to go to my office and feel like they are receiving a service in which, yes, there’s a deep clinical component, a medical service, but at the same time, no different than treating themselves as they would going to a spa. I wanted it to be something that they looked forward to. Even the lighting, I wanted every room to have a dimmer switch because I just wanted to feel cozy and neutral palette colors. I wanted it to be available to all. So often I think when we offer services to those that may not be able to afford it sometimes due to limitations, and I’ve been there, I’ve worked at nonprofits before, you make do with what you’ve got. I wanted people to have an experience where they felt special that I really was intentional in having them come. It didn’t matter their income. We also had interns, so that offered sliding skills, sometimes free if needed options. That was really important as well. Some providers wanted private pay only too though so things like testing. It does become difficult and you do have to check with insurances. Some services are not covered by insurance so being able to differentiate, which could be covered with by insurance, which we are not, and offering the same experience regardless of private pay or insurance or modality of wellness that they needed. That was really key to just deliver that. [LEVEL UP WEEK] I think it’s time that we speak about you and your goals for a minute. Hear me out. For a while now, we’ve been speaking about, about how to market your practice, how to grow your practice, and how to be a better boss and encourage a company culture but isn’t it time to start making it happen? I’m serious, I’m challenging you to just do it. Take that leap of faith, put yourself out there and level up in your practice. Think about it. You’re probably entering that phase where you start to set yourself up for 2023. You’re thinking about what your goals are going to be, what you’re not going to do and what you hope to achieve. But regardless of where you are within your private practice journey, I’m challenging you to make these last few months count to dig deep, to make next year the one for big changes within your business and more importantly within yourself. If you’ve been looking for a sign to either start your own private practice, grow from solo to group, or become a next level group practice boss, this is it. You’re certainly not alone because Practice of the Practice is doing something we’ve never done before. We’re so convinced that now is the time for you to grow, that we’re dedicating all our resources to help you do it. We’re all in every single one of us and we’re inviting you to go all in and level up. From September 12th to September 15th, we’ll be running level up week to help you decide what will work best for you in your private practice journey. There will be webinars, Q&As with experts and a chance for you to meet your accountability partners, facilitators, and community. If you’re ready to make a change and level up register at practiceofthepractice.com/levelup and follow our Facebook and Instagram pages at Practice of the Practice for live updates and event details. Lastly, before I jump back into this episode, I just want to say that I really hope to see you there, even if it’s just online. Remember that leveling up week isn’t about us. It’s not about me or about Practice of the Practice. It’s all about you and growing your practice, whether it be your first solo practice or growing you from group practice boss to reaching a national audience. Make September, 2022, the month that you start your journey and level up. [JOE SANOK] So then when did you start to think about the directories? You said that during the pandemic the wheels started churning. How did you determine the direction of TeleWellness Hub, what it was going to be like? Talk about that. [MARTA] Okay, so I actually don’t think I ever told you that. I still remember very clearly the moment that this idea came to me. I was making breakfast for my daughters and they were watching TV as they often did during the height of the pandemic, watching more tv and I was making breakfast. This is why I really love the idea of slowing down because when we’re just, I wasn’t necessarily sitting down with my spreadsheets, which I love to do too. But I was just in the flow of life and I thought about my experiences from working in non-profit medical world, the naturopathic doctor’s office, research, testing, and how I would often refer clients to others. I just had this moment while making breakfast that I thought, now that we’ve made the transition to telehealth, because our group practice went solely a hundred percent online, it just came to me that I think this is the time that we change the way that directories are made because I could never find a directory that really did justice to what our group practice and our clinicians were doing. I thought this is the time to really practice that holistic model, not just in my private practice and then leveling up to a group practice, but let’s level up even further and let everyone have freedom to practice how they want, where they want, all of that. So I think the pandemic really caused a lot of shifts. I looked at how we were doing work and why we were doing work and I started thinking like, well, what wellness provider do I want to become and how can we help everyone out there with the private practice, all the solo entrepreneurs? I mean, that’s what we are, we’re wellness entrepreneurs and how can I help support them? It didn’t, it helped that by luck, my brother works in marketing. I am not tech savvy and he said, Let me make you a TV ad, a connected TV ad and let’s just show your group practice all over the state of Texas. My inbound calls, so we made a video ad, we made a promo ad launched it, my inbound calls and stats to my website increased by over 200%. I thought, whoa, there’s something here. We need to offer this to everybody out there who is providing something online. [JOE] Yes, I want to, that’s one part of what you’re doing that it’s such a differentiator. So talk about what a connected TV ad is because when I hear TV ad I think local TV. It mostly goes to people that watch the news at six o’clock, which is not my demographic. But the way you described it a little bit at Slow Down School was like, what, this is crazy how big data is informing connected TV? So what is connected tv and then maybe we can talk about how you’re helping facilitate just getting better results for clinicians? [MARTA] Okay, so connected TV, I feel like I’m going to give a very basic form because like I said, I’m not specifically very tech savvy. I know there are experts out there who can give you all the fine details, but connected TV is a form of television that streams when you are connected to a device, a streaming device, say Roku, Apple Tv, even PlayStation. You can watch television through these connected devices. So you’re watching your regular networks, you can watch all sorts of networks through things, different platforms out there. So connected TV ads, we decided, well, what I learned, I didn’t know about this until someone, my brother happened to mention it to me for utilization in my practice, what happens is that there’s a lot of data out there. We know this because we all enter into our privacy settings and cookies and things that are tracked but we know that through CTV ads you can reach an audience on a national level because you can play directly into the televisions of your ideal client because you can specify when you make a TV ad that’s on a connected TV ad, you can specify what age range is your ideal client. What websites are they visiting? Is it health and wellness? Is it fitness, is it diet and meal planning? We can look at all of this and pick our ideal demographics and stream our ads. It’s a 30nd ad for the one that we use for TeleWellness Hub and it has over 98% completion view rate. It’s not the skip ad version. It just plays. So they’re watching TV and watching our, whatever our audience, our ideal audience is watching television and they see an ad for TeleWellness Hub and then it continues on. But there’s some visibility there that is beyond the Google ads and the Facebook ads and all of those ads that can just be scrolled over. There’s visibility, there’s professionalism in these ads, and we’re offering them also to some of our members on the directory as an option for those who want to do that for their own practice. [JOE] Yes, it’s crazy how I mean, for your VIPs that it’s a hundred bucks a month or so, like to think about just a hundred dollars a month getting free ad placement, — [MARTA] I guarantee a hundred views. [JOE] Maybe I just sign up for Practice of the Practice and just like do it through ads. It’s interesting to think about just how in some ways like this big data is so scary. But in other ways it’s like, I don’t want to see a commercial for bird food or cats because I don’t have birds or cats. But I do like, when I was prepping for the road trip, I did want to see ads for camper stuff. Right now, I’ve been playing pickle ball. So if there was a pickle ball tutorial. There’s things I’m interested in that if I got those ads it’s actually a better ad experience. Like I recognize for me to get free content advertising is part of the model I live in, so I might as well get advertising that I care about. That’s where this big data is not as scary because I actually have a better user experience. Even just the idea of a therapist being able to target, okay, I want to help women who are watching these types of TV shows and that are in this age demographic and have been on these websites, in one sense is super creepy, but in another way it’s like, that’s your ideal client. Yes, so when you think about, when people think about their directory sites or doing CTV ads, we’ve only got a handful of minutes left, but I would love for any tips like whether someone’s on Psych Today, whether they’re doing their own ads or they’re doing it through TeleWellness Hub, what advice do you have in regards to just making a good directory site better? [MARTA] Well, I think step one is don’t leave anything blank. If this is the way that people can see you and learn about you and gain a connection just through an image, definitely don’t leave anything blank. Sometimes we see that. Just make sure to just optimize whatever directory profile you have. Just live it out to its fullest potential, I would say it’s just step one. There’s a lot of research on likability and initial attitude from profiles that they’ve pulled from everything from dating, dating profiles and even researcher profiles. They found that a really good predictor of perceived likability for these profiles was a genuine smile, with eyes like the Ming eyes and a slight head tilt. So really not using a picture where you’re cropping out your kids where you’re staring straight into the camera or really being intentional about your profile picture and thinking about that. Just show a genuine smile and just put yourself out there. I think that’s a really helpful suggestion and maybe creating an online presence or developing it if you already have one. That might be sharing your creations, it may be joining communities, sharing on social media, which is a hard one for me. I would say that’s where I struggle myself with my own developing an online presence. But just share all your creations. You’ve got a YouTube channel, share it. You’ve got books that you’re publishing, share it. I think the more you can share, the more of an online presence that you can create, the more people can find out about you and become invested in working with you or through you. Because Tellwellness Hub, you can list your book and download it without a client ever scheduling an one-on-one appointment with you. They can already have an understanding of what you’re offering, of your voice and feel invested in in working with you. [JOE] Such great tips. I was just reading this article about in men, like what’s the ideal length of beard? It was interesting that like two days of stubble, apparently in the dating world, there’s like three different studies mostly from Australia and in the United States, is like shows a bad boy, like someone that would be fun to be around and more than 14 days of beard growth tends to view be viewed as like recklessness. So the most trusted beard length is 14 days. That’s associated with like long-term commitment and caring. So I’m like, well, if I was going to have a beard in my profile, I’d want to have 14 days be how long — [MARTA] Yes, put your timer on the calendar [JOE] Yes, yes, exactly. Take photo today. But it’s just interesting to see all these unique ways that people are learning research of like how people make decisions. And even thinking about my daughters going through a directory and looking at the women’s pictures that they wanted as their therapist and they were like, she looks nice. She doesn’t look nice. And it wasn’t any sort of like age thing or anything like that. It was just like what you’re saying, were they smiling? Like half the pictures were like blurry and they cropped out their spouse and you’re just like, off [MARTA] Yes, yes. Absolutely. [JOE] Well, in the last couple minutes tell us a little bit how TeleWellness Hub is different from say, a Psychology Today or other directory sites that people are familiar with. [MARTA] Okay. I feel like I could go on and on because I’m so excited and I basically, I was so fortunate I got to create my dream directory that I would want to be listed on. So I just decided to just go all in with all the features. Basically, if I would have to highlight the main ways that TeleWellness Hub is different, it really is for the modern wellness provider. It allows for us to become the type of wellness providers that we want to be. So it’s an opportunity to share multiple certifications. You can list that you’re a therapist, but you can also list that you’re a coach or a nutritionist or a personal trainer or a combination of all those. You can list your certifications or ability to see clients in definitely outside your zip code. We don’t go by zip code, we go by state and multiple states if you want to. Even nationwide, if there’s a component of your work that you see clients nationwide, you consult nationwide, you can list that on TeleWellness Hub. You can also list all of your digital content. So we spend time researching or putting ourselves out there on social media, on blogs, YouTube, maybe you’ve been working on an eBook or dream about doing it, but don’t even know how to like go about advertising it. Well, on TeleWellness Hub, you can provide links to all of your wellness work and that allows clients to not only build rapport before even one-on-one appointments, but also it allows you the freedom to make money outside of that one-on-one appointment or use your creative freedom. Of course, CTV ads is another way that we’re different because for our premium members, $99 a month, you’re going to be guaranteed a hundred views of your ideal client. I’m offering a free for a lifetime option. I’m a fellow wellness provider, I know what it’s like, yes. That one’s going to be forever. Because that way we can create a greater referral network. I want to build a community. I want to be able to see here is a, like you mentioned, someone who specializes working with grieving widows. I want to be able to find that and give my potential clients the ideal provider to work with. So I wanted build community and I want to help others just have their opportunity to do the wellness work the way they want. And I am a real person, I’m checking my emails, so if you have questions, they can email me directly. [JOE] That’s awesome. Well, Marta, the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? [MARTA] I would want them to know that there’s a journey in the private practice work that you’re doing and that what I’ve noticed is that there’s an ebb and flow in your approach, in your growth, in your focus, in your priorities and just ride that wave and just trust the process. Work hard to get the journey, to be on the journey, to take the steps forward in what you wish and desire, but don’t worry about constraints of doing things in a certain time. Because what I’ve noticed is that throughout time ideas came in and opportunities continue to present themselves. So trust the process, work hard. [JOE] That’s so awesome. Thanks for teaching us today about leveling up. If people want to get that free directory from TeleWellness Hub, what’s the best place for them to go and how do they do it once they are there? [MARTA] You can visit www.tele as in television telewellnesshub.com, and you can click to join the directory on the homepage. You can click join the directory or on the upper right-hand corner there’s a button that says sign up and you can learn more on there about the different options and from free to premium. [JOE] Awesome. Well, Marta, thank you so much for being on the Practice of The Practice podcast today. [MARTA] Thank you very much. [JOE] Go sign up for that directory site over at telewellnesshub.com. It’s been so amazing to just go through with Marta and to learn about the business and to see the business and see other therapists that I know signing up and all the Slow Down Schoolers were so geeked out about what Marta’s building. It’s just so fun to support people that you know are good people, but that are also changing the industry and saying we can do better than maybe a Psychology Today. We can do better than that and that we can fill a need in a different area and that we can keep leveling up, that we can level up from a solo practice into a group practice, from a group practice into big ideas and to do things that don’t maybe fit in the box that we were taught. If I’ve learned anything from doing Practice of the Practice for now 10 years, it’s the box that I was taught was a great starting point, it definitely gave me a framework. But in the same way that whether it’s your internship or great artist, they had to learn the basics first to be able to then do something bigger and different. That’s where we’re at as a society. We can do big things that have never been done before and it affect mental health services in the United States and in the world and all over the place. I’m so excited about Level Up Week that is coming up on September 12th, 2022. It’s right around the corner. Make sure you sign up over at practiceofthepractice.com/levelup. If you are brand new and starting a solo practice, we have webinars for you that week. If you have a solo practice that’s going really well and you’re ready to add someone, we have webinars for you. If you have a growing group practice, we have webinars for you. If you’re ready to level up beyond group practice, we have webinars for you from. That’s starting a practice all the way through, maybe exiting it. We have webinars all that week for you, and we’re adding more every single day. Make sure you sign up over at practiceofthepractice.com/levelup. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I’ll talk to you soon. Bye. Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.