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Joe Sanok 00:00:00 You’re someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You’re also someone who’d prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else’s story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Again, that’s practice of the practice. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe. Session number 1168. Welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast. I am Joe, your Host, where we help you build a thriving private practice that you absolutely love. This whole month we have Marketing Month and today’s episode in particular, episode 1168 is actually a continuation from our episode back in 1162.

Joe Sanok 00:01:21 So you’re going to want to go back and for sure listen to that one before you listen to part two today, because they connect together just the way we’ve done it. That’s that’s how we’re doing it. what you’ve missed already this month, is in 1163, we talked about digital marketing. later in the month, we talked about the rule of 26. We talked about getting online reviews in an ethical way. We talked about workshops. And coming up, we have a mega practice owner in episode 1170, Lisa Savage. She has 80 clinicians in her practice and talks about the marketing of a mega practice. So this whole month is all about marketing. Let’s jump in to this discussion with G.

Gee Ranasinha 00:02:01 So sales activation and brand building efforts are a partnership. It’s not one or the other. It’s both. Okay. Both initiatives are important and need to work together at the same time. Just doing sales activation stuff on its own without do having any time to sort of build the brand. Results in our audience not knowing about what we offer or who we are or who we can help.

Gee Ranasinha 00:02:24 There’s no you know, the thing I was talking about about trust. We didn’t have an opportunity to create that trust. Okay. On the other hand, if we just do brand building, it doesn’t move our audience to get to the buying stage. So customers might not know a lot about who we are, what we do, and why we are special. Okay. But we need, let’s call them, traditional sales tactics to get them over their reluctance to buy. Cue complicated graphs. Never, never trust a marketer who doesn’t have a complicated graph, okay? And actually, it’s less complex than it looks. So if you as you see, we’ve got a we’ve got a y axis, which is the sales, and then we’ve got the x axis which is time. And this is basically sales activation. So if you think about as an example of sales activation, if you think about it being advertising for example. Okay. So we spend a dumb chunk of money on advertising. As a direct consequence we get interest.

Gee Ranasinha 00:03:31 We get eyeballs over time. That level of activation starts dropping over time. Okay. Until it comes back down to a nominal level. And the only way to create that interest again is bang, spend more money. At which point it sort of gradually dims down. And that’s what this graph is showing. So you have an amount of sales based upon expenditure that diminishes over time and then increases again once you spend some more money. Okay. But the thing is you’re starting from scratch each time. Right. There’s there’s because there’s no brand awareness involved. People who are outside of the consideration set at the time to buy don’t know who you are. So what we do is we combine the two brand building and sales activation. Okay.

Joe Sanok 00:04:31 And G will you describe for those that are just listening audio only like in the first the first graph versus this graph since they may not be seeing it.

Gee Ranasinha 00:04:41 Good point. Good point. so the first graph sales activation. Think of the sales activation as the shape of a sawtooth.

Gee Ranasinha 00:04:48 Okay. So you create some noise and you create some you create some sales and then it drops down and it drops back down to virtually zero until you spend some money again. So you’re just going almost like a hat. Like like the teeth. Yeah. Or the teeth of a saw. Okay. Brand building on on the other hand is a longer term strategy. So you don’t see any result tomorrow like you would with sales activation. Okay. But it’s a longer term strategy of creating a brand with which the customers will have an affinity. And you combine that with sales activation tactics that work to, to to either get or keep customers buying. Okay. But again, for those of you who are not looking at the slides won’t see this. The the brand building graph starts lower than the sales activation, but over time Overtakes the performance of sales activation, because everybody in that category in that market space have heard of us, and even without us doing anything. Remember us when they actually are in the point to buy.

Gee Ranasinha 00:06:09 So that’s number one. But number two is that brand awareness acts as a force multiplier for sales activation. So when we do spend money on ads, people have already heard of us. So the effectiveness of our sales activation work increases so we get better bang for our buck. Not only that, but once we stop spending money on sales activation and we drop down to that threshold level over time, that threshold level increases because more and more of have heard of us. Less. Okay. So it’s it works from a number of levels, and both of them feed off the other. If you if you take my meaning. Okay. So the investment share between sales activation and brand building. It depends on the business. It depends on the. There’s no fixed rule. and it’s something that we would experiment with, for most clients to find what those magic numbers are. But as a basic guide, the recommended split is 60% brand awareness and 40% sales activation, which is probably the exact opposite of what most businesses do.

Gee Ranasinha 00:07:39 Right. Because they’re looking for a quick win, but there are no quick wins. You know, as especially in the industries that we’re talking about, These are decisions which are made over a long period of time and showing up consistently in the places where our audience expect us to be is very much part of that marketing plan. It’s, you know, it’s a marketing. It’s not it’s not a tap. It’s not a faucet that you turn on and turn off, not just because it takes time, to, to, to grow, but also because people, people need to have heard of you before they’ll buy from you. And there’s also latency involved. The marketing effectiveness, the results that we’re getting today are based upon what we’ve done two, two weeks, two months, maybe two years ago. And the results of what we’re doing today may not be seen for weeks and months as well. There’s latency. There’s there’s inertia before we actually see results that needs to be factored in to all of these things.

Gee Ranasinha 00:08:51 So marketing isn’t a cost of doing business. It’s as much part of the value creation chain as, you know, having electricity in your office, right? Or having a roof over your head. It’s it’s it’s an it’s an intrinsic part of the business. So hopefully that’s clear about long and the short. That was stage three and stage four.

Joe Sanok 00:09:16 Well what I love about it is like even just as we think about with practice, with the practice, you know, we’re towards you. We’re in Q1 right now. as we were identifying what our focus was for the year, it’s and, you know, maybe this is partially because you’ve been, you know, talking in so many of our communities. you know, the podcast we know is the number one driver of trust, you know, with people that end up buying from us. And so over and over, when we’ve done surveys, when we’ve brought in different consultants. The podcast is almost always, hey, that’s that’s where I got started. I binged it, I listened to it.

Joe Sanok 00:09:48 I found a, you know, whatever. and then our membership community, you know, that’s where people get the best results. and so it’s this, you know, we’ve been scratching our heads for years of, like, we’re getting great results over here, but, you know, people maybe aren’t buying at the level we think, but then we’re also not always putting money into the branding side of it. And I think that this really brings it together of those two goals for 2025, for us, it’s like the idea of pushing the podcast to as many people as possible. So 60% of our marketing budget kind of going towards that, and then 40% of it going to that direct sales helps me structure for the team. Just thinking about like, how does that look for 2025 if we have these two goals to continue to grow the podcast and to continue to grow the membership. So it just like starts to bring it together as to like, oh, I think I see maybe why that hasn’t been working, why we experienced that heartbeat where, you know, every single launch we do, it’s within about 15 members, about the same.

Joe Sanok 00:10:42 We haven’t broke through those next numbers. But I think what you pointed to is that we haven’t been doing that awareness. So when it comes sales time, people are like, oh yeah, I know about the podcast, I know about practice of the practice. That’s a lot easier to than make that sale. If you’ve been doing that concurrent branding with the marketing to to buy something. So thank you.

Gee Ranasinha 00:11:00 I mean, it’s logical when you think about it this way, I think. Right? I mean, if you think about your own experience of how you’re made aware of products or services in your own experience, right, you get to be made aware of these things, make, you know, months, maybe years in advance, and you may not be in the at the right time to buy, but that, that, that, that, that threshold level of awareness needs to needs to keep there, keep going, you know, week after week, maybe not every week, but, you know, certainly at a, at an, a regular timeframe, so that when people are in market they think of you as opposed to thinking of somebody else.

Gee Ranasinha 00:11:43 You look at you look at the Coca Cola ad, look, look at the Coca Cola ride that we had at Christmas. The holidays are coming at. Right. They’ve run that like, I don’t know, 30 years, 40 years whatever. Okay. Now does that make you buy more cans of Coca Cola? No. What it does do is when you’re in the soft drinks aisle in the supermarket and you see the red cans of Coca Cola, you think, yes, I need to buy some Coca Cola because it’s it’s really, stimulating those, those mental pathways that have been built over over years. The reason why you bought that crate of coke isn’t because of the ad that you saw yesterday. It’s because of the ads that you’ve seen every week for the last 35 years. Right. You know, the Coca-Cola ads. They never say, go and buy a can of Coke. You know, it’s only $0.99, this week or something, right? There’s no there’s no selling there.

Joe Sanok 00:12:51 Yeah. I’ve been following kind of some of that story of Coca-Cola and how, you know, just over a hundred years ago, they realized that people were only buying Coca-Cola in the summertime and that their sales would dip.

Joe Sanok 00:13:01 And that’s why they aligned so much with, like, The Santa Clause. And all of that was to have it become a year round product. So at that point it was like, go buy it in the winter. But now you’re absolutely right that it’s this ongoing branding.

Gee Ranasinha 00:13:13 And actually they’ve been doing it for so long because the the original Santa Clause Coca-Cola ads. Originally, Santa Claus was wearing green. Did you know that Santa Claus was dressed in green? check this out. Google it. I’m not lying. Santa Claus was dressed in green. And what they did for an ad is they had Santa dressed in Coca-Cola red. And over time, because it’s so ingrained into our memory structures, into our culture everywhere. Now sees Santa in red because originally, you know, the whole idea of Santa and Christmas trees was, you know, based in, you know, pagan thinking of bringing the forest into the into the dwelling. Right? So everything was based around forest tones, forest color palette. And so you wouldn’t you wouldn’t see red unless it was a, you know, a, a Holly Berry or something.

Gee Ranasinha 00:14:15 so this that’s a case of where the advertising has been so persuasive and pervasive that it’s actually come into the, the, the, the societal culture itself. Santa used to be green.

Joe Sanok 00:14:34 I love it. I love those cultural shifts that happen through, you know, stories that we’ve never heard.

Gee Ranasinha 00:14:39 It’s very interesting. I find it really interesting, those those sorts of things. Okay. So number five is differentiation. There needs to be a tight, clearly defined, differentiated position at the heart of everything the business does. And why do we need to do that. So that whatever we create cannot be mistaken by the buyer of being somebody else? Okay. Very simple. So how do we do that? It’s actually quite simple. We talk to people. We talk to people who fit our ideal customer profile. But when I say talk, I mean actually talk to our ICP. So we speak to existing patients, clients, and we ask them these questions. If you remember back in the diagnosis phase.

Gee Ranasinha 00:15:38 When we were doing the qualitative and quantitative research, we actually talk to our ICP. We ask them questions. We need to understand how they think about the problems that we’re solving. What they see as the ultimate value that you’re providing and where and when are their pain points. Quite often, what we think we’re selling is not what the customer is buying, right? And it’s usually a very eye opening exercise having those conversations to actually understand more about how what we’re offering affects their daily life. Okay. Differentiation is extremely key. If we blend into the background, then from a customer’s point of view, they can’t see any difference between us and our competitor. And if if they don’t see a difference between us and our competitor, they don’t have a measurable point of reference which they’re looking for. So they’ll go to the next measurable point of reference, which is invariably price. So they’ll ring around and go with the cheaper option because they don’t see a difference from any other measurable metric that they see as having value.

Gee Ranasinha 00:17:15 Yeah. Makes sense. That’s differentiation. Differentiation very important. The next one, something maybe is unfamiliar to people is a thing called codification. There needs to be a heavily and consistently codified execution, so that everything is grounded and is distinctive in the minds of the audience. What do I mean by that? I mean that just by looking at a piece of customer facing communication, even before they see your the name of your practice, they know who you are, right? There’s a look, there’s a feel, there’s a design language, there’s a color palette, there’s typography. But even in terms of tone, of voice, how we choose to express ourselves is all part of this codification. And it also helps on the differentiation. The codification is important because we’re not just trying to be differentiated. We’re trying to be distinctive, which is something else. Distinct differentiation is how we stand out from what we’re offering our offering, the way we choose to articulate our offering to our audience. Being distinctive is standing out about, amongst all those other people, who the customer sees as being inseparable in their own mind.

Gee Ranasinha 00:18:56 So we’re being distinctive, and I think one of the best examples of being distinctive and codification, certainly in the last decade, is McDonald’s. So if I show you this, there’s no this was this was a this was a billboard ad, okay.

Joe Sanok 00:19:18 A super just for those listening, it’s a super zoomed in French fries with a yellow and and red packaging.

Gee Ranasinha 00:19:27 So you can just make out the yellow and red of the of the box of fries. Okay, but there’s no McDonald’s logo. There’s nothing talking about French fries. But based upon the colors, you instantly know it’s a McDonald’s. Add another one. Which they did, which they ran as a campaign was, road signs. So you would have a billboard and it would be a red billboard with just part of the golden arches, the McDonald’s golden Arches symbol. Okay. It almost looks like a curve on a on a red background. And the only words are on your left. But you’re driving along, you see the road sign. You instantly know what it’s all about.

Gee Ranasinha 00:20:16 There’s no McDonald’s logo, but you know it because McDonald’s are using they’re using what they call their distinctive brand assets. The way that they articulate their value using visuals, symbolism and and indeed audio. I mean, I won’t try to whistle it, but the, the five tones that they have at the end of their ads with the the I’m loving it tagline comes up. Right. Instantly evocative of the brand. I think you’ll agree. Right. And this is another one which is on a, on a bus shelter, which is talking about delivery. So you have some buildings and, stylized, you know, in, at night and again, you see part of the golden arches being used as, as that composition. You instantly know who we’re talking about, codification in forming those mental structures.

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Joe Sanok 00:22:47 Like what? What does that look like to apply this to a much smaller market and a much smaller business?

Gee Ranasinha 00:22:53 Absolutely. And yeah, I mean, you know, the reason why McDonald’s has multi million multi, multi million dollar marketing budgets is because their target audience is international. Well it’s coast to coast. It’s international. Right. and the proportion of people based on the populous is a very high percentage. What we’re talking about is a much smaller. We’re fishing in a much smaller pond, which actually makes our job easier because it’s much easier, obviously, to be a big fish in a smaller pond. But what I’m trying to illustrate here is from the brand awareness stuff, it’s creating that background noise, that background rhythm cadence of who we are, what we do, who we do it for, and why they should care on an ongoing basis. Figuring out right at the beginning, from the diagnosis stage what our ideal customer profile looks like. So, you know, we may be talking to veterans.

Gee Ranasinha 00:24:04 We may be talking to single mothers. We may be talking to people with disabilities. We may be talking to, you know, what what whatever the demographic may be. Once we know those target audience groups and it’s usually plural, it’s not just one. There’s usually a few. right? But without spreading ourselves too thinly. When we look at the objectives, we pick two, three, four or whatever. The budget allows for target audience groups, and we adapt our brand awareness execution to be in sympathy with the expectations of that particular target audience group. So you’re saying different things to different people, even if what you’re selling is the same thing. Does that make sense?

Joe Sanok 00:24:51 I love that.

Gee Ranasinha 00:24:52 So that was number six. Now we move on to number seven which is creativity. We need to increase the level of creativity in order to be at the heart of all of this, because otherwise it it won’t hit home. Okay. unfortunately, it’s something that’s lacking from 99% of the marketing that we see today.

Gee Ranasinha 00:25:20 Unfortunately, there are too many, ads or marketing messages that we can use interchangeably. Okay. I mean, you know, we have all seen them. You know what? Wherever we’re looking at ads. if you if you saw two ads from competitors in the same category and you covered up, like, the logo quite often what they’re saying the communication could be used by either either business and that’s a problem.

Joe Sanok 00:25:54 I love that you bring this up because for since the beginning of the podcast, I’ve joked that therapist websites almost always can be interchangeably used interchangeably. with like a mortician. Like, there’s hope for your family. And then there’s this, like this river going by a tree, and it’s like. Or like the the pain isn’t forever. And it’s like, oh my gosh, can you be more specific?

Gee Ranasinha 00:26:16 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, is it a practitioner? is a mortician. You’re selling Advil, right? You know, it’s, You know, we need to find. Not just find, but have the conviction.

Gee Ranasinha 00:26:30 I don’t want to use the word bravery, because actually, I think it’s. It’s not bravery. It’s sanity to act the. You know, what gets noticed is not the middle of a bell curve, right? The action happens at the periphery. So we need to come up with creative ways of explaining and articulating what we do in new ways. That’s language wise, certainly visual execution wise. It may be on, you know, whatever particular dimension that makes sense for the type of customer we’re looking to attract. And you find that out not by waving a wet finger in the air, but by asking customers Who will be. Who are always. I’ve been. You know, I’ve been doing this 17 years, and I’ve been doing it another ten odd years before. Before we started casino. Existing customers are only too happy to help. They want you to succeed. They want you to do well, right? So why not tap into that? you know, an exhaustive list of Intel of insights that will power the way that you go forward to generate leads for your business.

Gee Ranasinha 00:27:55 And creativity is important. from the point of view of retaining a message. Okay. So if you excuse me, sort of teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here a little bit, right? But are you familiar with the idea of Gestalt theory? Okay, the brain, when left to its own devices, is looking to try to find order patterns out of chaos, right? Because we need to compartmentalize and categorize things. We want to put round things in round holes. Okay. Gestalt theory is making order out of patterns and chaos. So here’s a little diagram which I use. So imagine a human brain is subjected to ten marketing messages. Okay, so assuming the human brain is not doing anything else apart from being receptive to these marketing messages, and there’s ten marketing messages. That means each marketing message has the same percentage of mindshare, right? Which is what you must like, Joe.

Joe Sanok 00:29:28 Wait. Say that again. It is.

Gee Ranasinha 00:29:30 10% right? Yeah. Each message has 10% of your mindshare. Ten messages becomes 100%.

Gee Ranasinha 00:29:38 Right. The human brain has to remember ten messages, but it doesn’t. That’s because that’s not how brains work. We’re always using, heuristics. Right? We’re using shortcuts in order to make these as well as we are influence cognitive biases. Right. We’ve got all of that stuff going on. On top of all of this. So now imagine these ten messages which we can’t really delineate between each other. Supposing one of those messages was different across a particular dimension. It stood out in terms of creativity, in terms of message, in terms of whatever. But it was clearly different to the other nine. Okay. When that happens, what the brain does is it says, okay, you know what? What we’ve got are nine messages that look pretty much the same. And we’ve got one message that looks very different, right? So what that means is in terms of mindshare, we’ve now got 50% of mindshare and everybody else is sharing the other 50%.

Joe Sanok 00:31:03 I love that.

Gee Ranasinha 00:31:04 Because our messaging is different.

Gee Ranasinha 00:31:05 All of a sudden we’ve gone from 10% to mindshare for 50% of mindshare, and we haven’t actually spent any more any more money. Really? We’ve just changed the way that we’ve chosen to articulate our message. Right. And finally, we come to number eight, the last stage in our marketing plan, which is channel. We see that creativity deployed across the most appropriate channels. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean digital channels. You mentioned you’ve you know, you’ve talked about digital marketing in the past. It may well be a digital channel, but going into the exercise thinking that the only answer to a marketing problem is digital is actually doing a disservice because there are plenty of other things that you could be doing which are not normally classified as being digital, but may work as well. Or maybe even better if you think of the creativity aspect. Then what everybody else is doing. The example that I use here oftentimes is, would you believe USPS mailers? Okay. You you send something through the post which, you know, fewer and fewer people get anything through their through their physical mailbox nowadays, right? If it’s if it’s been designed well, if it’s been executed well, a piece of printed mail has a 100% open rate, which you can’t say with any digital medium, right? Not only that, if again, if it’s been executed well, that piece of print may hang around in the person’s home or office for hours, days, maybe even longer before it’s finally filed in the round filing cabinet.

Gee Ranasinha 00:33:08 If you know what I mean. The point is, we perceive printed mail as having more value than an email or a digital ad, because we all know that emails are free and digital ads are ten a penny. So the very fact that we are conspicuous by our investment in our prospective customers gleans attention from those customers, and it puts the thought in their head. You know what? These people wouldn’t wouldn’t be so confident about what they would producing if. But the proof of the of their confidence in what they’re producing is spending this money. Right. It’s it’s something that we, we, we talk about in evolutionary biology called costly signaling. Right. So if you think about bees and pollen and flowers, right, you see flowers which are very ornate in their design and they’re using all these wonderful colors, especially colors which are, that fluoresce under UV light because bees only see in UV. Right now, a flower would not invest all of that in inverted commas. Effort to bring a bee there. If the promise of pollen wasn’t delivered to the bee, right.

Gee Ranasinha 00:34:40 Because the bee would see the next time the bee would see that fly and say, hey, I’m not going to fall for that one. I tried that last time. There was nothing there. I’m not going there again. And then over the course of evolution, right. That flower wouldn’t exist. Right. So costly signaling the very fact that we are conspicuous by our presence across a medium that the customer sees as having a cost automatically increases the validity of our argument.

Joe Sanok 00:35:12 I love it. Now, before I ask the last question, I just want to make sure. Are there any other final things you want to make sure you squeeze in? before we dive into that final question I always ask.

Gee Ranasinha 00:35:22 No, that’s really it’s coming to the end of of our time. I’ve just got a slide here, which is a summary of those eight elements that form a a marketing plan. We start with the diagnosis. We then define the objectives. We then split our marketing efforts between long term brand building work and short term sales activation efforts.

Gee Ranasinha 00:35:50 We make sure our customer facing value is has differentiation so that people don’t confuse us with somebody else. We use codification so that even before they see who it is, they know it’s us. We use creativity to differentiate and create distinctiveness within our category, and then we use the most appropriate channels for execution that are in empathy with the expectations of our potential buyer. And that pretty much is it. Joe, that is my presentation.

Joe Sanok 00:36:29 Well, gee, if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Gee Ranasinha 00:36:35 Find out as much about, What? You don’t know what you don’t know. Right. You need to you need to either find out as much about the strategic areas of marketing that drive the tactical, because otherwise you’re going to be wasting a huge ton of money experimenting and, you know, trying to catch a fly with chopsticks, right? You you’ve you’ve got a an an unearthly, huge mountain to climb that you’re going to be doing again and again.

Gee Ranasinha 00:37:14 It’s Sisyphus, you know, pushing the, the rock up the up the mountain again and again and again. So either find this stuff out yourself or align yourself with a experienced, and reputable partner who you can work with over the long term. This is we’re not talking about quick fixes here. It’s a long term partnership. And even if you start at a modest level and grow as the practice grows, you entrust that partner with handling these areas of your business. Because you know this this is not your core business. You know, unless you are educated or experienced in marketing, you shouldn’t be shouldn’t be doing this yourself, right? You know, if you if you want to be a finance person, you have to pass exams to be a finance person. Right. If you want to fly a plane, you have to spend so many hours in the air before they’ll give you a pilot’s license. If you want to be a surgeon, you have to spend six eight years at medical school before they give you a scalpel.

Gee Ranasinha 00:38:21 But for some reason, anybody thinks they can have a go at marketing, and then they try it and they try to use shortcuts like, you know, recipes or AI or whatever else that they think is going to get them to the end, get them to the promised land quicker, and it never, ever works. And then they see, oh, I tried marketing. It doesn’t work for me. No, marketing does work for you. It’s just that you suck at marketing. Yeah.

Joe Sanok 00:38:51 Well, gee, if people want to connect with you, if they want to follow your work, work with your business. Where should we send them?

Gee Ranasinha 00:38:57 Best way to find me and get in touch. He’s on LinkedIn. Amazingly, there is only one grand a senior on LinkedIn, Joe, so you can quite easily find me. I’m sure you’ll put my LinkedIn address in the show notes. otherwise, obviously get in touch from, on our agency, which is casino cex. And let’s have a chat.

Gee Ranasinha 00:39:21 You know, it doesn’t necessarily mean we work together, but if I can, if I can help you dodge a bullet and keep you away from all of those snake oil sellers and charlatans who are promising the earth and don’t deliver, then my work is done.

Joe Sanok 00:39:37 So awesome. Thank you so much for being on the show and being such a great expert in our membership communities and just hanging out today.

Gee Ranasinha 00:39:44 It’s an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for inviting me back.

Joe Sanok 00:39:55 Well, this entire month we are talking marketing. And so if you have missed any of that, please go back. Look at all the other episodes and we have plenty that are coming up as well. thank you so much for hanging out. We couldn’t do the show without our amazing sponsors. Therapy notes is the sponsor today. They’re the best EHR out there. They will help you with all of your electronic health records as well. They have HIPAA compliant video billing and so many other things. Use promo code at checkout to get a few months for free over at Therapy Notes.

Joe Sanok 00:40:26 Com again, that’s promo Code Joe at checkout. Thanks for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band. Silence is sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.