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Joe Sanok 00:00:00  You're someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You're also someone who'd prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else's story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Again, that's practice of the practice. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Santos, session number 171. I'm Joe and I'm your host. And welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast, where we help you build a thriving private practice you absolutely love. We want you to thrive. We want you to do awesome at it to attract the clients you want, but we want you to also love it.

Joe Sanok 00:01:19  You know, to just like, say to yourself, man, I can't believe I get to do this. I can't believe I've built this. even just the last episode, episode 1170 with Lisa Savage. I just talked to her, like, literally ten minutes ago. and, you know, you you heard that episode five days ago. Five days. That seems like a while back. We're doing three episodes a week. There must have been a gap there. so, But Lisa, you know, she has an 80 person private practice. And just as we talked, and even after we stopped recording, she was just like, I can't believe I built this. Like, I can't believe I get to do this and to have a whole play therapy wing of my office and, to be in the schools in a in a way that I want to be in the schools and to to help out my community. she's just blown away. She's thriving, but she loves it. Like, that's just like, such a perfect example of what we're trying to build here.

Joe Sanok 00:02:08  and, you know, if you're a group practice owner, you've got to make sure you get your ticket, because at the time of this recording, I think about half the tickets are gone, so they may not even be there anymore. To our group practice boss conference. It's going to be in May of 2025. So the group practice bus conference May 6th and seventh. it's for all group practice owners, and you're going to hang out with 120 people that are growing practices like you. You're going to want to come over a practice of the practice. Com forward slash conference. All right. So that is right around the corner. And I am so excited today to be hanging out with Alex Membro who is the CEO of Cardinal, a health care performance marketing agency focused on growing health care companies through innovative digital marketing strategies encompassing search engine optimization, digital advertising, and reputation management. Alex, welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast.

Alex Membrillo 00:03:00  Thanks, Joe. Appreciate it. Let's have some fun.

Joe Sanok 00:03:03  Yeah, I'm really excited about this.

Joe Sanok 00:03:05  I love talking marketing. This whole month's been marketing month. so most practice owners, didn't get into business thinking that they had to learn a lot about business. They may have, you know, gone into counseling and they're like, I want to help people. And then something bit them and said, you know, I'm going to do private practice. we know there's kind of three main pillars of private practice. There's the operations, the clinical and the marketing. what do you see that gets in the way of good marketing for therapists?

Alex Membrillo 00:03:36  overcomplicating things, quite honestly, I think, good marketing for therapists is pretty simple. If you think about your own care journey, when you're looking for low acuity care, a therapist or couples counselor, where do you go? we often all are still going to the same place, but it could be in four, which is Google, but it could be informed by a by a variety of different things. Like maybe we saw an ad on Facebook or we passed a billboard, new practice in town, whatever it is, but generally ends at Google.

Alex Membrillo 00:04:03  And so I just see a lot of private practice owners. They get scared, oh, I don't know how to do the Google stuff. What am I going to do with my website? I promise you, all of you can learn it. I've learned it and built a business around it, but I've seen tons of therapy practice owners. They've learned the basics of digital marketing enough to keep their agency or consultant honest. And, and they can get it done by keeping it simple. And I'd love to talk more about some of those simple things on this podcast.

Joe Sanok 00:04:29  Yeah. Well, tell me a couple of those simple things that people need to master for their practice.

Alex Membrillo 00:04:34  Yeah, absolutely. and some of the smaller practices, we'll get into what they can do for themselves on their own website marketing. But I think, what we've seen work for smaller practices that are getting going, quite honestly. Zoc doc, doc, doc has a really good, amount of search visibility. When you go to Google Doc doc off, it works really well, they pay for lots of ads.

Alex Membrillo 00:04:55  It's a good way to fill your schedule. It just doesn't scale well. It's only it's kind of like a drug. The minute you stop paying, you disappear. and so we don't recommend it long term. You also don't own your own data. And so you'll, you can't, people will be going back there to book appointments and you got to pay $40 every time they go back. So it's not scalable, but it can help you get enough butts in seats early on. But that that's like a thing to tide you over. But the basic stuff with your own properties is have a good, solid, simple website. Make sure you rank for things like therapy near me or bed management near me, or TMS or whatever it may be near me. Have your city pages built out really nice, make it look inviting, and have the basic keywords, and then have a really good Google Business profile listing that has the keywords in your thing, like doctor gyms, couples counseling practice, something like that with lots of nice reviews.

Alex Membrillo 00:05:48  That's it. That's really all it takes in smaller markets to win. ranking in Atlanta. Different story.

Joe Sanok 00:05:54  Yeah, I want to get into that. Tell me a little bit more about websites. And so you mentioned like therapists near me having good like city specific pages. Like tell us a little bit more what should be on those pages.

Alex Membrillo 00:06:06  Yeah, absolutely. And and to be clear the location page is what we call them. They are the most important page on any multi-site provider groups or a provider group single location provider groups website. If you only do one thing, do the location page. Well. Why? Because it's what ranks on Google when someone types in Atlanta. Therapists, Or where are you? Traverse city, traverse city? They're, couples counselor. They Google will show location pages. And so location, location, location page. That's the only page that matters for you guys. The number one page that matters in the early days okay. And so starting out you want to have the keywords and the title and the page copy and all that stuff.

Alex Membrillo 00:06:44  And you want to have other things. So like pay your partnerships. What insurances do you accept. Put those towards the top. A lot of people are cash paid now. That's fine. But if you take insurance, okay, have those, let's say at the top and then have pictures and testimonials from from your providers, from yourself, from patients. If you can get them and have really inviting like people want to see where I'm going to be entering into, a lot of you guys are virtual, plus or sorry, hybrid. So they'll be coming in at least every now and then, and then they may, move to virtual, but people won't see where they're going to be walking into. So get video taken, like those in-person, like, walkthroughs of offices. The location page should have all of that to make it look really inviting. I can see where I'm going to be entering into. They have information on the insurance services provided not written by ChatGPT. Google maps integration is there with reviews.

Alex Membrillo 00:07:30  Like everything it takes for a patient to make a decision should be on that page and it should look really nice and you don't need to reinvent the wheel, see the businesses, see the other practices that have really great location pages and are ranking really well in your market and go copy them. Not their copy, not their pictures, not their attitude, but copy the format and the general look of it. You don't need to. This is not rocket science stuff.

Joe Sanok 00:07:52  I love how simple you make it. And I love that you talked about online reviews. If you want to hear an entire episode about that, we just did that earlier this month. Episode 1166 talking about how you do online reviews ethically within our field. So make sure you go back and hear that full episode that's about online reviews. so the location page is the number one page you got to focus on. super simple working on your Google business profile. getting that set up. if we were to kind of zoom out and just think about marketing strategy for a private practice, what would you want people thinking through when it comes to their strategy? Before we dig into too many of the techniques.

Alex Membrillo 00:08:33  Yeah. I mean, all in, you're only going to drive like 30, 40% of your patient volume from digital. So there's still other things referrals, local business networking, local community stuff. brand awareness. So you So you have to think through all of those things. I just start with digital because it's got the most effective cost per lead, and is the thing that's easiest and best for business owners to do, but you got to be, well, present in your network. The other thing I would say for your marketing strategy a lot, it is getting harder and harder to stand out because it has there are a lot more competitors and advanced therapy groups. Ever since Live Stance started their trajectory eight and a half nine years ago. A lot of other groups have also advanced and have sophisticated brands and value positioning statements and all that stuff. So you really have to work on your brand, you're positioning, what are we, the best in the world? I think it was a man who came up with the hedgehog thing.

Alex Membrillo 00:09:28  Was Jim something I think, what are you best in the world at? What drives your economic engine and what are you most passionate about? Something like that. So, like, if you're the best couples counselor out there, really hone in on that. If you have the most payer partnership, like we take every kind of intern and make it whatever, really hone in on that. But you need some kind of differentiator. Don't plan to stand out online or in the community by just saying we are a generalist therapy group with nothing special about us. You each have something special about you. You must hone in on that and you've really got to hedgehog and be specific. It is too hard to stand out online by being just everything for any everybody. It doesn't work anymore. so there are a lot of different avenues, but I just start thinking about why you're special, and I promise there's something there.

Joe Sanok 00:10:16  Yeah, it's so interesting because just recently, my teen daughter wanted to switch therapists. And, as we were going through that process, we looked at a few different ways, you know, did the Google thing, went on Psychology Today.

Joe Sanok 00:10:29  And, you know, being in this industry, it was just like, oh my gosh, people like such low hanging fruit of what you could be doing to make yourself look better. but of the 40 or so people that are, you know, on Psychology Today in our city and our zip code, Only three head videos in Psychology Today makes that so easy for the user to just watch video after video of therapists and then go to their profile. so we watched the videos and my daughter was like, I like her. and then even that person was like, not accepting clients on a waitlist. And it was like, oh my gosh, like, raise your rates then, or like, do something else. So, so it's really interesting to just see how those things. It's just like one step beyond what's easiest. if you specialize a little bit, if you do a video in your office and even more so do a video not just of yourself, but of your office, like, hey, here's what my office looks like, that 1 or 2 steps beyond what's easiest.

Joe Sanok 00:11:24  There's so few people doing that that, in this world, it's so easy to stand out if you just put in that little bit of extra effort.

Alex Membrillo 00:11:32  Yeah. And I think a lot of business owners get nervous. Oh, I don't want to seem salesy or, I don't know, marketing. We gotta stop using that excuse. You now own a business you're in. You own a practice. You are doing therapy for yourself. You own the business. So a little. A little secret from us when we started this SEO company that is now this, you know, bigger healthcare marketing agency, yada, yada, yada. I went and got an SEO for dummies book and learned a lot of the basics myself after having done some of it growing up. But anybody can do that. So like you have to go learn marketing and you have to do some of the basic stuff that Joe is saying, like, dude, put a video, try to stand out, make yourself look creative and differentiate it like, go the extra mile.

Alex Membrillo 00:12:13  Psychology today, by the way, is just basically an SEO company. They're just better at it than a lot of groups, right? And they've been at it for a long time. That's just they rank really well. They know where to show up. But there's nothing that's not like a proprietary business, you know, like that's an SEO company that was really good at ranking. So showing up there and and having a little bit of differentiation, apply that to your doc doc to your own website. Very, very important. The other thing, Joe, is my couples counselor just raises rates to 450 an hour Yes. I said, good for you, buddy. This is getting highly ridiculous. Like, oh my God. Well.

Joe Sanok 00:12:49  If it's that high. If it's that high. You're thinking to yourself, okay. For one, do I need this? Like, people are gonna think through that. And then for two, if I do, is this person helping me go faster? So if one session is the equivalent of four in another person with another person, then you're like, yeah, I'll pay four times as much because it's effective.

Joe Sanok 00:13:06  It's good. It's helping me. Yes. All those sorts of things. Now let's move up kind of in the advancement. So we've got, you know, people that then they start to add clinicians. They start to say, oh, I shouldn't be running my own marketing, I shouldn't be running my own SEO. Maybe they have 5 to 10 clinicians in their practice. They've maybe hired a executive assistant intake coordinator. They're starting to build out a team when they're thinking marketing. what should they be thinking about as they start to level up beyond themselves?

Alex Membrillo 00:13:38  okay. I love this because remember what we were talking about earlier. To be able to hold the next the, the the marketing company, the consultant, whoever ends up helping out with this honest, you have to have done it yourself. And that's why, like I'm so adamant about small business owners, therapy or not therapists or not doing some of the website and SEO and the PPC stuff themselves in their early days so they can keep people honest as they grow.

Alex Membrillo 00:14:04  Then how you do it? in-house. let's see how many how many providers do you say five, ten? Maybe five? Ten? Yeah, ten. Probably starting to make sense to have like a marketing coordinator in-house. Probably 50 K, something like that. A couple of years experience at school. But you're not going to need 7000 K marketing director or anything like that until you start scaling beyond like almost 20 locations and I don't know how many providers. but the important thing is, when you're starting to scale out you if you get a marketing coordinator, if someone can be honest. Listen, they we built an incredible marketing machine for Kardinal, and are pretty well known in the thing that we do for her. We do it now. We built it almost entirely with Upwork contractors. We looked like this huge thing. Now we're like almost 100% agency, but we were like 15 people and we looked really big. And a lot of it was Upwork contractors that were building our website, our podcasts, our live streams, our content, our SEO, our PPC.

Alex Membrillo 00:14:57  So like, you could do this on a budget by going to Upwork when you're 510 clinicians only and then have an in-house marketing coordinator coordinate with all those contractors. Don't go get a big marketing company thinking you're going to scale up quickly. Like business just isn't there. You don't need a cardinal. You don't even need anything like a cardinal. You can get by with a marketing coordinator. And before the marketing coordinator, there are SMB medical specific marketing agencies that will charge you 1500 to K a month to manage your SEO and PPC, and they are sufficient. You don't need more. You aren't big enough to need more, and as long as you did it in the early days, you can keep them honest and make sure they're doing enough of the right things every month.

Joe Sanok 00:15:34  I love that. I am so excited about alma. When I had my private practice, I struggled building my caseload, attracting the right clients, managing the business side. And honestly, one of the reasons I didn't take insurance was it was so difficult to navigate.

Joe Sanok 00:15:59  So many of my consulting clients deal with these problems as well, and almost supports clinicians in building rewarding private practices with simplified insurance credentialing in under 45 days, enhanced reimbursement rates, and guaranteed two week payback, plus a free profile in their searchable filter directory, making it easy for clients who are the right fit for your practice to find you. Learn more about how alma could support your private practice at. Hello, alma. That's. Hello, ally. Slash Joe to learn more. So. So when you start to move from kind of having people on Upwork and, and just hiring kind of a hodgepodge of contractors into agency type work, what are what are things that that people need to be aware of? Because we've hired people to run our pay per click ads that were 1500 a month and then got terrible results. and so it feels like over and over we just keep getting burned where it's like, yeah, put in this, you know, $5 a click, and then you're going to make a $100 sale.

Joe Sanok 00:17:07  And it's like, well, of course I'll like trade nickels for dollars, but then it doesn't end up. We just, you know, drop 2 to 3 grand a month over, you know, five months. And it's like, well, that 15 grand did not move the needle. What kind of questions should clinicians and owners be asking on the front end that are going to help them, like have the outcomes they're looking to get?

Alex Membrillo 00:17:29  We were once upon a time, one of those 500 to $1000 providers, and we were good. I recognize there are very few of them that are good, so a lot of you guys are going to get burned once or twice. If you know it well enough, you'll find a decent one at that at that investment level. But Joe's asking a good question. What? Beyond that, he said we weren't getting the result. What is the result you're looking for? That is the number one question to answer with your marketing agency, your partner. What is the result? A lot of agencies don't know how to answer that.

Alex Membrillo 00:17:59  They're not healthcare specific. And you have to get that answer. Is that online appointment schedule? Is it going to be tracked? Is that lead forms. Is that called are we going to track those or are we going to track them in a HIPAA compliant way when we get those leads or those online appointments scheduled, are we going to pass them back into the ad platform so that the advertising improves? But the result is oftentimes where there's a mismatch of expectations because agencies said we got you impressions, rankings, traffic, things are moving in the right direction. And clinician says I have no new patients. And they say, well, these things will eventually yield that. And they say, well, no, I need patience. Like this month. Okay. Well then why are we doing SEO? We should just be running Google Ads campaigns to a landing page and tracking it. So understanding what the result we need and the timeline we need is step number one. And that's often what is overlooked.

Joe Sanok 00:18:49  I love that.

Joe Sanok 00:18:50  Now when should people start thinking about hiring like a larger agency and really just outsourcing it outside of themselves.

Alex Membrillo 00:18:59  Well when you have I think 50 plus locations is generally what we work with up to like 800 locations. And so like you only want to go to the large agency when you've really like you've been through the mid tier ones. You have a marketing director in-house and maybe she has a couple coordinators and they're capping out and there's more important things for them to do then SEO and PPC. And it's getting too difficult to scale with the mid tier agencies. They can't grow fast enough. They can't launch ad campaigns. Let's say maybe you're opening a few day novos a month. Maybe you're looking at M&A like nothing, but the more experienced agencies can handle all of that. and, and then when you're looking, you need to make sure they have really relevant case studies. That is the number one thing. I'll tell you the other secret in a minute, to evaluating a great agency and making sure they can help you scale, but making sure the case studies are very similar.

Alex Membrillo 00:19:50  Behavioral is different than dental is different than derm and PT, and we work in all of them. And I have specific colleagues that like know those industries very well. So you don't spend half your time explaining what the difference between therapy and med management is, right? so that's very important. And then number two, meet the team that you're going to be working with. They can't guarantee it. And in the agency they're only going to be together for six months. And then people are going to swap out. They're going to elevate. They're going to go to a different agency. They're going to go in-house. But meeting the team, making sure they've actually worked on similar clients but not competitive ones is very important as well. So that's important. And then the third thing is see examples of their tracking. When I got back to results. Results matter when you're 150 100 plus location results matter. You can't, like, look at every nuance you have to make sure they're tracking is very advanced on how they quantify the returns.

Alex Membrillo 00:20:35  Are they able to track calls and leads beyond a superficial thing like they actually know what we're net new patient leads? And not just all phone calls. Like we work with specific technology partners. We know how to integrate them into dashboards and in the website to run, advertising outside of just Google ads, we know how to run the right kind of meta ads that fill more Google ads, demand generation over time, like you're going to start getting more advanced, but it's really after you can't keep your eye on every practice's marketing anymore. And that generally happens around 50 locations.

Joe Sanok 00:21:08  Okay. Yeah. So a lot of the folks that are listening to this show, they're probably 3 to 4 locations. And so those are folks that are going to be kind of have that as a wow, I would love to have 50 locations someday. when you think about marketing budget, if someone asks you, you know, what percentage should we set aside? How should we think through how we make a marketing budget? what do you like? How would you say people should think through that side of it?

Alex Membrillo 00:21:38  absolutely.

Alex Membrillo 00:21:38  So, 10% is what I say. If you want to be really aggressive and gain market share. 10%, groups that are plateaued or rely on mostly on referrals or at 5% or less. I don't see that move the needle, especially when you're early on 1,020%. I'd be sinking into marketing. it depends on how aggressive you want to be. The more leads you're getting, the more picky you can be about patience, the faster you're going to grow. But Joe, like, I think, you know, clinicians with 3 or 4 clinician groups, like they also are not all made the same somewhere lifestyle businesses. I'm good with my three clinicians. I just need a couple of patients a month. Some are not. And they want scale faster. That will determine a budget as well. You need if you're three clinicians but want to be nine and nine months, then you're going to need to invest more because you're going to make more mistakes. And you need budget for all of the screw ups that you're going to do to try to move your advertising faster.

Alex Membrillo 00:22:29  The other thing, guys, I'd love for everybody to know is that as you start growing really fast, advertising's not going to be your biggest problem. If you're with a good ad agency, it's actually going to be the operational side. We see tons of issues where we scale up the advertising, but then ops can't keep up the call center. It doesn't work. Isn't 24 over seven. The call center can't convert. They don't say the right things. No, the right things. The calls aren't going to the right places. There's we are booking out two weeks. People are rescheduling and going somewhere else. So marketing will only be your first problem and then the operations has to keep up. So both of those things have to be kept in mind as you try to scale. But five, ten, 15% you want to get crazy with it.

Joe Sanok 00:23:09  Yeah. I love that you bring up the operational side. for probably the last 18 months, we've been converting a number of our operations over to position for scaling, knowing that if we put too much money into marketing and got, like an influx of new clients that we we would break the operational side and we'd lose team members.

Joe Sanok 00:23:31  We'd have frustrated, frustrated clients, all those things. So it is such a like, you know, which one goes first, where you want to kind of structure out your operations a little bit and then, you know, do the marketing and then you're adding clinicians. So all three of those pillars that we often talk about on the show of having good operations, having good clinical and having good marketing, you know, they have to kind of play off of each other and none of them can really outpace the other. when you think about, marketing, like, I know you have a podcast, I have a podcast, I think thinking of podcasts through the lens of marketing. How do you think through your podcast as a marketing tool?

Alex Membrillo 00:24:12  man, it's critical for us. It is the number one piece of the fly. We all tell you everything we do. And then why the podcast is so important. Is that fair? So, we are B2B, obviously. We're trying to attract large provider groups to work with us, and so we do a ton of marketing online.

Alex Membrillo 00:24:30  We have LinkedIn advertising. We email all of our prospective people with helpful content or what we think is helpful. We have live streams aka webinars. We host our own virtual summit. We have blogs, case studies, you name it. I also post a ton of content to LinkedIn, but the number one way that you get people into the flywheel is with the podcast. And the podcast is critical for us for two reasons. The first is one A and then there's a distance to be one A, because it helps us get more visibility on LinkedIn. And that is the number way. One way that we generate leads, especially the larger ones, is they say, hey, we we saw all of your content on LinkedIn and it exposes us to new networks. So it's absolutely critical for that. And then the podcast is where we meet people at conferences down the road, and we have them on our webinar and all that stuff. But it's kind of like the easy bite at the apple. You get someone in there, you promote them, you make them look good, and then they're your friend forever, and they're potentially your client in two years.

Alex Membrillo 00:25:23  So, it is critical for us.

Joe Sanok 00:25:26  Yeah. Yeah. I think that just the use of a podcast, I mean it really depends on what someone's particular goals are. Is it expanding your network. Is it your own information. Is it you know giving money through podcast sponsorship or is it lead acquisition. all those different things to to use a podcast strategically for your own kind of business.

Alex Membrillo 00:25:45  You know, one, Joe, you, you know, you, one cool way I heard for us are the B2C listeners a cool thing? I heard Bonnie Ward from CHC, Health System in Arkansas. She told me on our conference a few weeks ago. She said they use a patient podcast called A view from the bed. It's like supposed to be a little, you know, edgy. And they have patients on there to talk through procedures and stuff like that. Because when you are going in for any kind of procedure, a heart condition or ACL tear or whatever, all you read online is like Mayo Clinic standard bullshit.

Alex Membrillo 00:26:14  Right. And like you do not like, man, what is the recovery really going to be like? So they have patients come on there. And I thought that was really clever. And that's something therapists can do, is bring patients on to the podcast and talk about how therapies help them, how it hasn't. How do you find a good therapist? Well, you know, I don't know. I think that was a cool angle she took.

Joe Sanok 00:26:33  Yeah. And I know that, like, Sarah Pearl does that with her show where she does, like, live therapy with people on her podcast, so no way. Yeah. So I mean, it's one of those things that, assuming you talk to your attorney, assume you look at your code of ethics and you have full disclosure as to all the risks, and then that client says, sure. Yeah, I'll do that. That sounds great, dude.

Alex Membrillo 00:26:54  I would do it. I would do it with my therapist. Veronica, I've got Veronica at 2:00 today.

Alex Membrillo 00:27:00  She wants to do it.

Joe Sanok 00:27:02  Yeah. And so I think it's one of those things where there's there's different types. You know, counseling is so mysterious to people as to what goes on. Even as a therapist, I think about how, you know, when you're in grad school and you get to sit in on all these counseling sessions and, you know, your internship and, you know, I got to rotate between different therapists and just, like, sit in on their sessions. We don't really do that once you're licensed. And so even as a therapist to know, like, wait, how did that person handle that couple or how did that person handle that teenager? Or, you know, that person dealing with a divorce? It's like this kind of mysterious thing that I think that there's so many opportunities there, that that we can be innovative, we can be ethical, and it can grow our businesses. Yeah, absolutely. Now, Alex, the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Alex Membrillo 00:27:53  If you really want a sustainable business where you'll have a steady stream of patients always coming in, please go pick up that health care marketing for dummies.

Alex Membrillo 00:28:02  In fact, just go to Cardinal's thing, website. We have tons of educational content on there. Webinars from big behavioral groups, case studies, blogs, all kinds of stuff. Go learn. I would really love for you all to take away. You all can learn the basics of marketing. You can do it yourselves. In the beginning, you can keep people honest. In the end, you have to learn this stuff. The most successful entrepreneurs I've seen did not pass the buck early on by saying, I just don't know. Marketing. It's not my thing. It must be your thing. It is a steady stream of income for you. It helps connect patients with care that really need it, and your family will love seeing you less stressed out every day because you have patients coming in the door.

Joe Sanok 00:28:39  So awesome! Alex, if people want to connect with you, where should we send them?

Alex Membrillo 00:28:43  search for healthcare marketing agency. Hopefully we show up on Google. Right? This was I was totally full of shit this whole time.

Alex Membrillo 00:28:50  go find Cardinals website or I'm on LinkedIn. Alex. Mario. And we post lots of, what I hope is useful healthcare marketing content every day, and a lot of it is behavioral. So I hope it would be useful. LinkedIn website, whatever and happy to answer questions. Point you guys in research. Get you small consultancies or marketing companies contractors. we always help and sometimes it comes back to us and other times I just feel good about it. And that's a nice way to start the day. So thanks for having me, Joe.

Joe Sanok 00:29:19  Thanks so much for being here.

Alex Membrillo 00:29:20  All right, brother.

Joe Sanok 00:29:29  All right. Well, we've got a lot going on in our memberships. If you're not in those memberships, make sure you head on over to practice of the practice for membership. You can be in the track that is right for you. Whether you are starting a solo practice, you're in a sustainable solo practice, starting a group, growing a group. We have something there for you. and, that conference is right around the corner in May.

Joe Sanok 00:29:51  So practice of the practice conference. Join us May 6th and seventh here in Traverse City, Michigan. It's a beautiful time of year to be here. I like year round. whether it's, you know, snowing in the winter or, you know, the summertime beaches. Traverse City is a fun place to visit. Not sponsored by Visit Traverse City. But I love this place. So, excited to host our very first group practice boss conference here. May 6th and seventh. You know, we couldn't do this show without our amazing sponsors. And you know, when it comes to that operational side, Alma helps support clinicians in building rewarding private practices with simplified insurance credentialing in under 45 days, enhanced reimbursement rates, and guaranteed two week payback. You can learn more over at alma. Hello, alma. Again, that's. Hello, alma. To learn more. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band.

Joe Sanok 00:30:50  Silence is sexy for that intro music. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.