Podcast 102 | Counseling Trauma with Reading and Writing, an interview with Israeli Counselor Yoav Cohen-Manor

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Yoav Cohen-Manor uses writing and reading to process trauma and other issues within his Israeli counseling practice.

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Pop Culture Meet Yoav Cohen-Manor


Yoav Cohen Manor

Yoav and I were writing back and forth and I just found his approach to counseling so compelling. As a bibliotherapist, he uses writing and reading to achieve therapeutic goals. It’s so amazing!

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Joseph R. Sanok, MA, LLP, LPC, NCC

Joe Sanok Private Practice ConsultantJoe Sanok is an ambitious results expert. He is a private practice business consultant and counselor that helps small businesses and counselors in private practice to increase revenue and have more fun! He helps owners with website design, vision, growth, and using their time to create income through being a private practice consultant. Joe was frustrated with his lack of business and marketing skills when he left graduate school. He loved helping people through counseling, but felt that often people couldn’t find him. Over the past few years he has grown his skills, income, and ability to lead others, while still maintaining an active private practice in Traverse City, MI. To link to Joe’s Google+ .







Podcast Transcription

Podcast 102 | Counseling Trauma With Reading And Writing, An Interview With Israeli Counselor Yoav Cohen-Manor

[0:00] Music.

[0:28] As we get someone out to use one of the reasons can feel like looking to what i know to half them glad you’re here listening to smooth listening to elevator music.
I’m gonna just have to hold myself back from saying that every time that were in the one i chose the one to use.
I hope you’re doing awesome today hey i know that i had some sound issues in regards to volume and actually got an email from someone recently,
saying that they love the podcast love the content but it’s super annoying and i’m gonna be inviting,
my podcast there that has helped with my other podcasts you start taking over,
some the sound with this but i’m gonna be headed out to get men conference,
the summit conference in seattle in just a little bit here and so i wanna make sure that can it is really nice nicely streamlined,
so probably november and december the volumes will be even better than they are right now.
Making this next one hundred even better so thanks for your patience it’s amazing the eleven thousand of your tuning in,
every single month to just listen to my often poor editing skills so,
recently my mike has been not picking up things quite as well as it has been the past so might be time for an upgrade this is the mike that i started with my awesome eighty twenty usb mike but,
it might just be time to upgrade cuz it doesn’t seem to be picking things up quite as well as it used to well this week we don’t have a sponsor but we do have a resource and the reserves i wanted to tell you about.

[1:58] Is one that i probably recommend more than almost anything else when i’m teaching people about adding clinicians the practice and streamlining their business and that resource is grasshopper.
It’s a grasshopper the phone system that i use for mental illness counseling and it is really awesome as you think about growing is great when your just a single counselor,
i’m looking for a phone that isn’t your cell phone be using your cell phone so pretty much the ways grasshopper works is you get either local phone number,
you can use an established phone number or you can a one hundred number,
and you pay anywhere from nine dollars to eight fifteen dollars a month on the nine dollar month plan and then you just pay per minute that you use so it’s really like,
minutes maybe ten to fifteen bucks a month in compared to compared to like other phone systems like it’s pretty cheap slowly works is the person calls in tier phone number so it’s your local phone number,
when i hit zero and can forward to your virtual assistant so zoe she’s down in texas and she answers all the phone calls him at once constant hey mental illness counseling this is only how can help us thing is people scheduled,
on the hit seven hundred goes to me seven one goes to steve seminar to us to tara,
i’m thinking and add to your team without having to really upgrade your phone system and you can have all these extensions.
And it’s really useful for if you’ve been using something like google voice narrated take it up to another notch in regards to professionalism.
And i just have loved and especially if you’re gonna be adding virtual assistants you using your phone system the already have your cell phone.

[3:34] And but it comes in as your private practice number and it’s just it’s awesome it’s wonderful it’s secure.
So head on over to practiceofthepractice.com/grasshopper don’t help with transitioning your current number over and for me it’s just been flawless.
Well i safe lol except that you have a voice to text thing which most voice to text is pretty bad,
and it’s not very accurate but you get the hint that someone has called me the basics of it and,
and just to listen to voice mail so ever grasshopper check amount of really love them they’re the entrepreneurs phone system and they are just really really good,
as well as we expand beyond just the united states.
I guess they reach out to me and the head of to be a guest on your show in today yo have call in min or he reached out to me from israel and he is a counselor there,
and he has some really amazing work over there he has ma from the university of a high of infected the education department counseling what’s really interesting is when i was in my grad program is actually looking,
add going over there for a semester i thought there would be really cool that’s international experience but alas i did not i just kinda plug on through.
His master’s thesis was a father son and their stories joint story writing as a narrative expression of the relationship between fathers and their adolescent sons.

[5:04] Yo is just super cool he uses what’s called be able to therapy and so is the art of can of writing within therapy is not using the bible like you maybe you’d initially think but not the active leo being from.
The greek or latin about you kind of the same sources be able to check out our library,
so using writing as a way to express from and hurt and living in a war torn country at times.
And it’s amazing to hear his story all about.
Just how do you live in israel as a counselor dealing with your own from oftentimes and helping other people through their shower trauma.
Amazing story he gives so many apple things to people that live anywhere in the world is without any further ado i give you your out of.
Yo and welcome to the practice of the practice podcast how you doing today.
Great thank you so great to be here yeah thanks so much for being on the podcast yeah oven i connected he sent me an email,
and he’s actually located in israel so why don’t you tell us a little bit about where you’re located and can we do over there is real.

[6:14] Okay well you know the turn is to be on the other side of the forecast is a listener not on the.
The love of stuff actually while listening been missing for a long time.
So i’m leaving to leave in israel until is very heat beats city very hot and very humid right now.
Oh no thing yeah went with my kid to that.
Outside playing when back to the condition because it’s true now on.
But its it peaceful summer sorrow it’s never wants to it is from here on.
And i’m the biggest therapists.
He is in euro and we’re e mailing i was taking guesses at what be able to therapy is so when we start with the fellas little bit about what to do therapy is and how you got into that.
Okay i will give you thirty is a form of on thirty i think on.
I think you can call it and its thirty that uses text videos like is this text is book.

[7:36] And it uses activities reading and writing and mostly use of books of which.
In the song in the way of the third therapy on began with de la variants.
What gave books to.
People you know thing all we have that problem you should read this book and it started like and developed now it’s there it’s mostly based on.
How many they non serious.
Ass oh warrant on dates not so much on the city side of therapy on baltimore md.
Oh and then i’m side but i think i can go now we do it kind of thirty.
Sure and i definitely given to a little more of like what that looks like for the client but how do you get indubitably affair be a house that we could you because your story around that will.
I was on i studied trees riding.
I want to be a writer for a long time and was just think in writing for four films and snuggles,
and i am.

[9:06] I had trouble know going to drag strip scripts and stuff like that because i felt dizzy something missing it’s something you know it’s like on.
No like making the products and especially if it’s tv i fill the lot of tv does not know how people and i found out about thirty.
And i realize that it’s combining to this things that interest me the most one is literature and stories.
And fantasy and the other is psychology and helping people and no the connection.
Is this a natural for me because most always heal story when will you listen to good story or.
You feel bad and sometimes you just need to find a good story a good book to help you out and he was like.
Exactly it’s so.
Hello heading to other people think a bit before you can get your interesting cuz just today over lunch a friend of mine and i were we’re walking in.
He was talking about how he is lately been really in to beethoven and light how beethoven created this music is very kind disruptive at the time and how.

[10:37] That led into this whole discussion of how release in us culture we don’t have a lot of like hero stories like there we just don’t have those hero stories that are part of our cultural narrative and we are discussing how.
We then create have heroes out of people there actors are media people and it’s like when you good story when you have good heroes and that fulfills that,
you don’t have to look for kind of these heroes and,
places like just tv are things like that have you found that to be true also can in israel that story can cannot overcome some of that.
Will we have you know that the celebrities stuff is won’t share so its no-no one can escape the i guess.
The thing is we would celebrities is exactly we need the heroes to hear me when.
Because it we can presidents something inside us something name and narrative that we can see life in,
and with something that you know every movie almost every movie has gymnastics samuel pack.
And and we need it we because we organize only life and every bus in our life by this narrative.

[12:08] I think it’s very important that people have.

[12:13] Next and cause fullness and in narrative that they can grow on you know now the of books.
Oh about the ph children’s books about scientists and about and specially women scientists and heroes and seeing how long will that is you know for young girls.
This seems to have a book not only of princesses and but also and of here scientists.
And so that they can they can see themselves in that will not of the role of the and made in distress.

[12:59] Yeah if it’s on the road and someone act of using our to can,
create social change almost i was just listening to npr story yesterday it was talking about video games,
in saudi arabia and how there’s is video game developers that there like having women drive cars there and do all sorts of things that can push back against some of the culture,
and it’s really interesting to think about how arts video games books music all these things can really,
push the boundaries of culture and ways that just maybe typical politics can’t while,
she it told can no that’s why.
Book shopping band mudslide books so dangerous us know we can make people see another world in the sea another reality in which.
And you know what things that the current politics off is necessary,
so since most listeners are in the united states of a lot of other listeners outside the united states now israel is included in that list thank goodness and but some silver for us i don’t think we problem,
what it’s like to be a therapist in israel so like can you paint us a picture of like.
What’s it like to be a counselor in israel right now like what are the things that you’re seeing as a counselor will no.

[14:34] A lot of stuff is the same because it is very western world and.
We have all the other problems we now have the same but puts like ten times of more stress to it.
No i think it’s will be not.
Too much of an expectation to say that is the summation of it is the and first of all in will we have the holocaust in the background.

[15:12] And so there’s something that whenever us there is danger yo is a tiny spark.
Makes that exploded you’ll working something goes back something reminds us.
The whole cast and this can make people react you know nothing to clean the safeway on shit.
In the back of potions to the car touched the threshold to what’s happening because everything is like.
It’s five for the existence in the waiting on some parts of the mind.
There is no current never-ending conflict in israel.
I was in a last year we had a will hear.
And you know it was just remembering how we had a long says no live in tel aviv in like.

[16:24] It’s a long sentence is so that’s how you know people are going to the beach.

[16:33] What’s a citizen did business under and then you have been on and you know that in one min one half-moon on december the dolby some socks for.
You have to get from joseph quick known is every house every home every building has a shelter in it.
Oh sitting so it by the law when you when you when you when you build a house you need to build a shelter.
So you can think you know only that’s long can tell you a lot about the mental state.

[17:11] There are building codes have pt st hehe yeah.
And you know like do ions and you know.
I’m going to work with my family and i get my keys and i ran downstairs the shelter and no on terrifying,
but i have to be to look confident and everything okay cuz have to little kids they don’t know what it is one scary,
so and you know my wife we go them to already.
What is the body and we’re going downstairs to have a party and so on all the neighbors come,
so we start singing and dancing in the army does join us cuz they also want to have the kids relaxed and happy.
So you can imagine that scene shelter all their neighbors girl stressed.
Do try to like everything is cool and we having actually having a party now.

[18:23] Tel aviv in is famous for its huge bodies and when its body seen and i think it’s you know if.
Four thing about israelis its it’s kind of that you know being in that and this association.

[18:45] Anyway so.
You know you have a whole bunch come in to angel into the dvd release to visit you cheat lot of stress land in its to know that starts.
It’s not just me and it’s not something that okay you have a phobia and you just and you know it’s real fast brain red is missing coming the road is so,
so as the as the counselors and therapists yeah i mean if everyone with pt st.
How do you how to handle that within your practice.

[19:32] That’s a good question have because like the beat is this and to know.
I am sister to just like a layer they’ll always the bank yeah it’s like an in kind of.
It is it’s like a psycho there that you know it does that everyone has and you have to two on one hand.
Can you try to penetrate student to make the patient one touch with your feelings and the other hand you know it’s scary gym so you have to protect in.
To try to make it is safe as possible.

[20:17] So so taken with dad about the go ahead and go ahead and i think about month on june in public twenty.
Nc medical aid anything in a time capsule and you know it and.
Not go people don’t decisions and sunday there is no longer anything about how the intimacy of the.
Of the therapy of the talk with the page and there is a now if one goes out of safe.
And sorry you have to stand with other patients and after based.
And you’re just like an email off should bring your brother some like that yeah that’s a different level of confidentiality and that he yeah i think and there is also a thing that,
you know i think a lot of their texts.
Head to the feet of doing that because it says something to make some of my patients are arabs and you know when the war i was have station.
My kid and i was doing wrong place to be with shit and.
In german war i’m thinking about what happening if there is something wrong and i’m thinking about on.

[21:51] His family backs up some of the family may be in the gaza strip and like this family find themselves.
On both sides of the war in the middle and they must be worried.
You’re not twice as much as me i am but now can’t time stop over twenty times small shit.
And of the son and this kid wants a with down dance,
anyone sister the one other and i’m thinking you know wants in everything at school he has questioning as fish he wants to two.
Actually doubt plate and that’s great on the other hand he wants me to you know sugar in and i’m like.
I can do that.

[22:47] No it’s too much for me because you know and i are on an israeli you know i’ve been in the army.
And you know for me will you know holding.
The gun is a toy gun but you know i know how to hold them and i will you know this part of me that i can’t let inside the thirty two.
You know it’s so the thing is that.
He was very noble of their natural for greater and forts kid it was the.
Set alarm to a dvd outside of the what’s crazy.

[23:37] So when you’re doing the video therapy and you’re including writing reading story what would that look like for or say.
See a twenty or thirty something your clients maybe not a kid like what the what does it look like in a counseling session.
What is gold dance on you know how much it what is the backgrounds the cultural background of the patient in know it can you is it depends on what one likes to re what kind of world.
She draws on child can memories of stories when you know what kind of miss.
He’s on is going to use affecting news stories and in what it tells.
Thing most of your basic there is festival to hear what the patient is saying as story.
You can also i will think about it.

[24:48] Is it me or have patient will stall me a lot of stories about you know how he is.
Kind of sand small-time tripping lol and how is very brave doing all these kids and stuff like that and often i thought about.
How he’s insecurities trying to show off or think of is surprising and then i thought about,
i am thinking about what he’s done me finish are in like if it’s still good to book a movie and i realize hes telling me suspense story.
Who dances so and a full what is the major main feeling in such.
In the movie such a story and spence of the year it is it was sunny with a very clear.
Sorry you want me visitation tell me how and she sees how he’s very anxious and.
But he can’t can tell because you know what is really is especially him he can be attached to these feelings why would you say that they can be attached to the feelings.
Okay i’ll be cool it was to which was to scary for me and i couldn’t live with being vulnerable.

[26:21] Catch it was just you will be one devastating and if he also if he let himself attach that.
I’d like to much for me to handle yeah okay yes so he had to go on the assignment how courageous he’s now everything nothing scares him that.
You know what when i start looking at it as a story is now level.
It’s not sunny it became very clear what it is that she’s telling me and you know we patients we can do exercises of riding.
Weather it’s free riding just you know take a pencil start writing.
Don’t think about what you’re writing and then the patient is surprised about working out.
Because he had no control this is unconscious stop.
No revealing itself and then we can you know try to.
June fourth exam that she will lab right to make new stories and with no with what was found.
Old time to email joe story ride rides real tell a story i have patience thing we have trouble with dead wood riding so we know they tell me sorry nine friday.

[27:56] And after the day here in their own story.
You know we can try to alter it can’t what if something like that happens when it is no.

[28:09] I have been busy asking what if.
Set them and like when they have this story out they can step away from the story as we can narrator that can then observe it rather than feel it.
Yeah exactly and we can you can change the genre no one can take up on a story that is scary it is a horse or for them and trying to write it.
As a funny story as a romantic comedy with drew barrymore what exactly and you know it and it can the king exactly gives the person a distance.
And allows it to be free of the out story help him.
Sure so what do you see when they’re able when a client able to genuinely can look at their story step back from it we can impact do you think that makes for them.

[29:07] Well i am deeply did become the narrator.
I think that’s the difference is if the story got you all you gotta store because when you write your own story you can choose.
You can’t use everything.
But you can choose the path you can choose a way to look at it and i need you can’t own that gives you strength of your.
Of life yo and is a working bbq thirty done with at the people.
Arriving there and all the bad with the.

[29:47] And is it it’s amazing how important it is for the elderly to.
Make sense of their life and writing story.
Because you know the human mind we don’t have just facts we have stories everything is organized stories and lot of time with will not.
You’ll comments about it.

[30:12] And once you do once we find what is still runs the main narrative in my life it’s actually chances what is the meaning of life.
And would love it gives a lot of comfort and c to have no.
To have a meaning instead of chaos.
Yeah not so you live i’m wondering in your own life but what is this type of therapy done for you or what is writing or reading and looking at story for you personally.
How is it changed you personally um i.
Washing to now almost every story i read.
Chance of a bitch because it gives me no and neither and i experience no way to do to feel something you or to shop and something that i felt inside me.
And i really visits when i agreed to my kids on.
So it’s in children’s stories on you know you can really feel the user can with the guy in davie activate restaurant and.

[31:33] You know just when you know when i look at my library mean and i am sixty four right to what the.
One right now the other thing going to park what twenty.
What’s my hot need rain actually an excel in the book find yourself while.
I love that was my heart need right now that’s a really important question that i think a lot of people.
Don’t you think about what the average person reads its you know maybe facebook some links that just kind of pop up,
a lot of times and people don’t intentionally take the time to say what my heart need right now and then re that vs,
just can’t letting anybody else decide what you should read all the.

[32:25] Yeah house ceo to go ahead thing reading is a form of being no connected to yourself.
Can you wait the help of someone else.

[32:40] So wish we help of someone road story because you know did the book is not watch down the narrator wrote.
It’s not what it go off world that’s what happening when the re the re with it because you know the same book.

[32:59] You and i will read stain same book.

[33:04] And the a two different stories because it will appeal to different sixteen she story and you will,
see seems that want one character did this want this thing is very in old will resident something important for you and your irish and for me will be some other character doing something else.
And we will you know and every everyone will get what she needs.

[33:35] From that book while so every counselor in the world were listening right now what would you want to know.

[33:47] I wanted to know that festival reading and and books can have a huge impact.
On on the patients and most of all.
It can have an impact on thirty it is then if it’s only in the mind of the thirty’s and or think writing is an excellent exercise empathy.
And will we have any clinic in the public clinic in on the.
We have such thing with you that we send to england and in the group bomb particles sorry that.

[34:34] We will worship together and we have us kind of.

[34:40] And listen to someone cuz about his patient and there will try to write the stations story.
From his point of view foundations form to you and usually it’s very very powerful.
Think for their for the therapist to hear his patient on with what others wrote and.

[35:07] So even like case consultation you guys are implementing is probably a therapy to help the therapists maybe increase their empathy or their perspectives.
Yeah yeah i think you know something in be the therapy case consultations sometimes when i wanna enjoy this patient i will introduce a poem or story that they should reminds me.

[35:33] And conducts and we will discover a lot of things that you know i can’t see the tv for.
And i think it so first of all for a ticket for the sharpest i think it’s very important it’s a very good exercise.
Anything in your help because basically what patients wants us is to be able to see what they see feel the world.
For it through their eyes and the other thing is i think that i want people.
Thirty two know that sometimes the poem.

[36:15] Can enable someone to speak when someone is lost of words.
So if you give up on.

[36:26] You know if it’s not before and so will reject it and no harm done that sometimes it pull and can.
Can really you know allow a person to define the word he needs.

[36:42] We have a story.
Question that public link in the last thing in the war last summer one of the fairest one of the sickle just his son died.
Was so joining direct dial.
When was very hard for everyone specially for her she and two months later.
Did you year began and.
No as new students came for to the clinic and i decided to.
To do something with your therapy and in the staff meeting and i just put forms.
I know printed bones in the room and ask people to.
To to find a poem that speaks of them they don’t have to know why.
Just something the like and two new teachers it and in to go back and then we’ll talk about poems and why they acted.
And the psychologist was there and.
You know it was very hard for everyone to speak because it will you know room for a therapist and we don’t know what to say we don’t know how to find the woods this glitch.

[38:20] And some you on the third started using the poems.
To tell you the grieving mother what do you want to tell her.
And solve them didn’t even know that when the when the chose the poems and sunday what was.
What began as a meeting when people ask.
And feel anxious and in you know they know they have to say something know what to say and want hard but i don’t know how to do it.
The sunny it you know it was a group hug with words and people found.
And would say and was very very strong.

[39:09] So even therapist who are good with blitzed and go to.
Even now you if we don’t always have and would and know before psychologists.
Dell poets and still and they’re still here.

[39:31] And i really need to buys chips to eat for three and t use it.
We’ve given us so many great techniques to just,
pepper into our practices into our supervision i love that idea is in particular for case consultations to have people right from the,
person’s perspective the clients perspective and i’m am definitely gonna do that with my supervision group you’ve if people wanna get ahold of you.
Oh and i’m just sitting on my ass site.
Which is going to be on a new story dot co il,
and i think i’m gonna have section weed research about it you thirty and about literature and about the importance of reading and writing for mental health so morrison.
More results will be there,
and will definitely to that in the show notes again that’s new story dot co dot il is that not okay to make sure,
but just when you’re listening to the podcast a lot of people might be running walking the dog that may be driving so will have a link to that in the show not so i give you that lean can just a minute folks.
Any last words that you wanna just leave us with all have peaceful time and need a lot.
And i love this of juliet i think that something that will people know say i don’t have the time.

[41:08] Just want to say you’re so because it would be better to do for you and.
And people around you.
Wonderful thank you so much for being on the show really appreciate you staying up late to do this interview and no way to to give some back how will think you so much thanks arena listener and all that to.

[41:35] Music.

[41:50] Go back one of our australian listeners had said to me why do you say it every counselor in america you have an international audience so you’ll notice that has sort of switched throughout.

[42:02] From you know my podcast and password for every listener in america every concert america listening to every counselor in the world so.
All of you people outside of the united states think you so much for listening thank you for what you’re doing in your individual countries and i love hearing about the different ways counselors.
Are just hoping in ceiling and growing outside the united states as well so thank you so much those of you outside the us to take time to listening to the facts.
All of you are awesome at every practiceofthepractice.com/grasshopper if you’re interested in signing up for that phone system works boring a little bit more i appreciate using the affiliate link.
When the ways i’m attach the website so that i can keep you in this awesome contact you guys rock thanks for letting me in two years into your brain have an awesome week.

[42:52] Music.

[42:58] Special thanks in advance ounces sexy and the beast and alice is for your music and this podcast is designed,
but i can work information in regard to the subject matter covered his game with the understanding that be the host publisher or the guests are entering legal accounting clerical or other professional information.
If you are a professional you should find one.

[43:17] Music.