PoP 207 | Part 2 of 2 Gottman Institute Clinical Director Dr. Dave Penner

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Gottman method

Today, Joe Sanok speaks with Clinical Director Dr. Dave Penner, in part 2 of 2 Gottman Institute.

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In This Podcast


  • https://practiceofthepractice.com/start
  • https://practiceofthepractice.com/mastermind

Sound Relationship House

  1. Friendship (Love Maps)
  2. Managing conflict
  3. Creating shared meaning together
  4. Positive perspective
  5. Share fondness and admiration
  6. Turn towards
  7. Make life dreams and aspirations come true

Gottman Horsemen of Apocalypse

  1. Criticism
  2. Defensiveness
  3. Contempt
  4. Stonewalling

Visit https://www.gottman.com for more info!

Meet Dave Penner

Dave Penner is a licensed clinical psychologist and is the Clinical Director of The Gottman Institute. He is the author of the Leader’s and Couples Guides for the Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work program, based on the bestselling book by the same title by John Gottman and Nan Silver. He has trained therapists and workshop leaders in the Gottman Method on four continents.

In his role as the Clinical Director, Dr. Penner oversees clinical aspects of Institute, including providing consultation to Certified Gottman Therapists and clinicians in training; selecting and training consultants for clinicians pursuing certification; training and supervising video reviewers who certify therapists in the Gottman Method; overseeing quality control of new programs and products; training and supervising roving therapists at couples workshops and answering clinical questions from clinicians, researchers, the media and the public.

Dave has practiced for over 30 years as an individual and couples therapist working in private practice, university, mental health and medical settings.  He may be contacted at [email protected] 

Meet Joe Sanok

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.




Podcast Transcription

Pop 207 | Part 2 Of 2 Gottman Institute Clinical Director Dr. Dave Penner

[0:00] We all know that the human brain craves to be innovating because the most innovative people are the people that have survived.
As well we know the wanna be in community,
so this summer i am offering a conference call at slow down school where we’re going to be looking at how to attract your ideal client.
To create your ideal life is gonna be amazing we’re gonna be right on the water,
we’re gonna be slowing down but there were gonna be speeding things up help me focus on the things that matter so you can have a full practice full of your ideal client,
but also then you can cut things away so that you can have your ideal life,
to me it’s all about that balance between your ideal life in your ideal practice so that you are burning the candle at both ends so head on over to slowdownschool.com to sign up for the conference or if you are unsure.
Jump on the phone with me you can schedule a fifteen minute call to chat about whether or not this is a good fit if it’s not a good fit i will totally tell you,
i’ll let you know other things that could help you reach your goals of skoal cisco her to going over to slow down school that come.

[1:01] Music.

[1:25] I am so happy that you are here it is sue.
To peter’s from becoming institute was such an amazing interview that we are having it last week that i just positively,
we gotta keep this thing going and want to pump all this into one people’s brains gonna explode and then i can be efficient in their counseling practice.
Lately i’ve really bad and thinking about who the two groups of people are that i serve the most and this is part three groups one of people that are planning on starting practice there right at the beginning,
if you are those people if you didn’t know you can head over to practiceofthepractice.com/start.
Can you get a twenty step checklist for starting a private practice in the people that are like half full there under hundred k.
I’m developing a few different things are gonna help you out on that i haven’t yet release to get your email list anything.
But i do have openings in a mastermind group i am opening soon so you can apply for that if it’s not fit now the maybe sometime in the future will be.
So head over to practiceofthepractice.com/mastermind if you wanna be a part of that,
as well if you have a practice that over a hundred thousand dollars you can go over there and you can apply to be in the master mind group that’s gonna be for people that have,
over a hundred thousand dollars they want to create their ideal life and start a scale up cuz the things that got us two hundred k.
Are never the things he gets to two hundred three hundred more,
it’s already growing as a group they’re as well so gonna specs of the practice account for such mastermind would you also the fun things that alison pidgeon who has been doing a ton of consulting to practice the practice we have ten or fifteen writers now.

[3:04] They’re writing for practice and the practice last month we had almost,
fifty thousand downloads we double the amount of downloads that we typically have any given month and,
we’re just continue to grow because you guys are sharing this with your friends your letting your fellow grad students no,
you there are professors are having a class is listen to this podcast it’s insane to see how fast we’re growing and it’s not because of me it’s because we as a community are doing this together.
This goes well he is an act this is the practice of the practice community that is tuning in to facebook lives with sharing things with resonating with things and so,
maybe have a dream that someday rate for practice and the practice maybe have a dream to be in our practice and the practice magazine if you didn’t even know we had a magazine we lost a magazine earlier this year.
It’s so fun to go after these big ideas.
And today dr tanner is gonna continue on his innovative discussion about what the government institutes been doing.
And they have been combining research and practice for years and it’s just incredible to see what they’re doing.
So without any further ado i give you dr dave,
ten are from the got me institute will welcome to the practice of the practice podcast last week we had dr dave powder from the government institute,
and he is back this week as well that i could just tell the interview was gonna be so big and long is there such great information that david sharing with us that,
i just said we’re going to two weeks of it so dave welcome back to the practice of the practice podcast thank you agree to be back.

[4:40] Yes the last we talked about the intake and how that works with the government that’s let’s pick up their,
so i imagine someone has had a couple have been seeing for years and then they decide that they want to get trained and got method or they do the relationship check up.
What are some strategies to use that check up to then help those couples can learn the skills and move out of therapy.
Yeah so the challenge is how do you change from one style therapy to another ministry here but i think one way to do that is to tell couples that would be to say.
It’s often really helpful to do kind of on the first check up and see how things are going to look at where we’ve come.
Look at where we’re going in this process and so here’s this wonderful resource that’s available to help us to do that.
And then explain about what the check up website is like and.
Yeah that website there’s information for the condition on how to explain the website to couples factors actually down mobile.
One page summary that you can give couples to explain it to them and it has information to basically all you do is get their email.
In the sense that the website and it generates an invitation to each partner so they can set up their own private log in and do it.
Without each other’s seeing their results here for their privacy so anyway back to that is to say so this is what this thing could be really helpful.

[6:15] Explain that have been done that and then when the results come back say.
Well i got the results back let’s take a look and.
Let’s integrate these results this feedback with all of our understanding together where were at your understanding my understanding and have this little round table discussion where will.
Discovery you were asked to look at some goals and go from there.

[6:45] Is what i would recommend to make that transition i’m glad the clinical director at the government institute said that because that’s exactly what i did with this couple a couple of couples that i am working with so it sounds like i did it right.
He did i don’t think you’re looking at me cu you talked in the last episode about the sound relationship house and their seven levels to that meeting us through those levels and the some of the research behind those levels.
Sure so will talk about the research a bit first and then go into the seven levels so.
Dr that has been researching couples for over forty years he’s actually looked at over three thousand couples during that time span couples ranging from happy couples to,
couples who later got divorced and everybody in between there and.
What the media has made a big focus on is his ability to project.
With over ninety percent accuracy rate which couples will stay together and which couples will get divorced.

[7:52] I actually didn’t seven different studies and other self replicating those findings as well and what he says is that.
What’s what’s more important than that is his ability to identify.
Specifically what it takes to make a relationship successful in what we call the masters of relationships are doing.
And on the other hand what happens when couples relationships in the way they talk to each other when those couples end up getting divorced down the road in so.
Of course the goal is to do what the happy couples do in not do the things that lead couples to divorce.

[8:35] So from all of these observations he’s published to think that the last count was two hundred.
Team something like that professional pure reviewed articles he’s come up with the seven.
Levels call the sound relationship house that is what it takes to make relationship successful when couples do that or not six is full when they don’t.
So the seven levels of instant overview really can be condensed into three levels because.
Three levels of the cells are important in any intimate relationship is friendship which is the foundation of a relationship.
Second is managing conflict and third tuesday creating shared meaning together.

[9:27] So it’s not as complicated for these levels is it might sound.
What’s go back to friendship yeah he defines friendship three different ways so course being a researcher who have to operationally define what you mean by your concepts.
So what dimensions of.

[9:45] Is school out maps and loaf maps be first to the map that one has in their mind of their partners world no more their psychological world to who’s going where when with her that but it would be more.
How does your partner feel about things important to the back of things that are important to the people that they work with.
Family members what they like with the dome why.
And both of you get out of date sometimes with the business of life or being tied up with kids or work or whatever.
So getting to know each other’s world would be a foundation for the first part of love maps.

[10:30] The second part is once and admiration that how much affection is there between.
Her and she and how much they look forward to seeing each other when they’ve been away for the day or more extended.
Period of time what’s that like between these folks.
And then the third dimension of friendship just because turning toward instead of away.
So this concept of turning toward his that you relationships.
Especially well-connected happy relationships.
The people in those relationships make this for connection with each other all the time and sometimes those bids are obvious like come here sit next to each other reach out and touch the other person.
And other times they’re much more subtle in order to even recognized as a bid for connection but but it’s so example that might be.
Sometimes women on the way out the door to go to work in the morning my wife will say did you hear on the news that there whatever.

[11:40] Well she knows that i’ve been on my laptop in the.
He is before i leave for china don’t think it’s because she’s afraid i’m gonna be embarrassed of some quiet was gonna ask me about the news of the day i don’t know if it’s really a big for connection.
And what she makes that be i have three choices i can turn towards her which is to acknowledge your vehicle and say,
yeah i did hear about that or know what happened to be to have to be extended conversation but i acknowledge that be for connection.
Or i can turn away from her which would be i just keep walking out the door and the ignore that did.
Or i could turn against her like it’s not back in six can’t you see i’m in a hurry quit bothering me when i’m all the way out the door and then knows zoom out the door here.
So it turns out that happy couples turn towards each other a whole lot more than couples who later got divorced effect it was a study of newlyweds.
Where a few months after they were married okay observed a ten minute segment of the couples dinner time conversation.
And they calculate the percentage of time that they turn quarts each other during that dinner.
Nm six years waiter they looked at couples who were divorced and still married.
A look back at that have never clipped that dinner conversation a couple who were still married six years later that earlier conversation.

[13:11] Turn towards each other almost all the time but he six percent of the time and couples who were divorced six years later.
Turn towards each other thirty three percent of the time so i’m matching the difference between,
almost all kinds really don’t six percent of the time and thirty three percent.
Magnified and multiplied you know day in and day out that if there’s more to it than that in six so that relationship by this making vids and turning towards what the part of that.

[13:44] So that it’s amazing that there’s a newlywed couples that like.
I don’t know what i was newly married in this photo i’m still married last i wanted to talk to my wife all the time and like you know we,
you i’m weird millie what in particular so to think that at that point on the thirty three percent of the time they’re turning towards each other.
Yeah i can see why there be a really good indicator of you know divorce not good or some parts of the republic open.
For dinner someplace and we see this couple sitting there totally disconnected from each other in your car all the death by boredom or no now.
They were there each other phones in there hahaha maybe fairtax think it’s either that was useless that,
interesting i was talking to one of my consulting clients and she said that she and her husband are both,
really introverted people and they both in jobs where they have to do a lot of talking and so when they go to dinner they have an agreement,
they can be on their phones until their food comes and so they just both kinda need that we can look at the news the cat just for them to be effective as a couple they found like a way to agree upon that which i thought,
well if i just looked at my be like why the couples headed for divorce but i don’t most couples have that planned out.
Yeah yeah what’s a whole other area of the role of digital distractions is episode three of series so anyway back to the thought relationship house there’s,
welcome apps on this new admiration and turning toward.

[15:17] Of the fourth one little level sound relationship house who’s the positive perspective and what that is.
Basically is a by product of how the war three levels of friendship are going.
If couples know each other they share their lives with each other they understood shield on by each other love maps are strong.
Actually that share for missing i’m rationing the turn towards each other most the time.
Then the perspective of the house on their relationship is probably gonna be pretty positive one.
On the other hand if those areas are not very well developed bed the perspective they’re gonna have on the relationship would actually probably be quite negative and.
The good news is that a negative perspective can be changed to a positive perspective not by telling oneself okay i just need to have more positive perspective on.
My relationship that doesn’t work but if you can change the reason why the perspective is negative by building strength in the friendship area and then helping of conflict.
Then also as a by product the perspective becomes more positive.

[16:40] This perspective is also a transition from friendship into the conflict area as a sort common sense i think that if you.
Feel pretty good about your relationship and you disagree on some issue that,
discussion is probably gonna go a lot better than if you’re in a really negative place in your relationship and you disagree over some issue.

[17:03] Sure so i think often times with therapists will do are you or just come every day personal do is say we need to start with the conflict and look at it from the other person side or walk in their shoes are in the start there were as.
If the government research shows you gotta start with you like each other of us hate each other and don’t know each other’s worlds that it’s really hard to work through conflict compared to,
if you have a basic intimacy of friendship.
Yeah that’s i think that the research shows that therapies that focus just on conflict management.
Can get some short term gains but have a really high and relapse rate.
Because they have hope the couple to also build their friendship foundation and help them.
Connect and much more deeper level which is the top one for the sound relationship house so.
So in that friendship area what are just a couple quick strategies that are asking use to help a couple that struggling with their love maps and that kinda turning towards each other.

[18:07] There’s a lot of exercises that are available to help couples so for example with low perhaps we have a deck of.

[18:16] That you can draw a card and ask your partner a question you can do it in an open ended way or you can do it there’s another one that’s called open ended questions cardiac there’s another one called the local map cardiac.
Questions were like almost like you know there used to be the i think the newlywed game on tv is sort of like that you would you would draw a card and we’re trying answer for your partner,
so you could say.
Which or who is your partner partners favorite relative so you might say i think your favorite relative was your aunt susan.
No your partner would say yes of no that’s correct or well actually yes i like that susan but.
My my cousin was actually the person i thought close to cuz you flush the same age stand.

[19:11] Set up it’s an opportunity to learn it’s not a competitive thing it’s an opportunity to learn and develop.
Both left maps and those are available as apps also right they are us the other like dollar nineteen ninety nine or something like that he’s awesome objectives of dollar ninety nine fact that grade point others like.
I am more than a dozen apps yeah i was amazed holy cow you guys have so many outfits awesome yeah and the list is growing as we speak.
Actually here so well for me and christina my wife like we got all the decks we came out to the love and side yard sales love.

[19:52] So we have decks but then it’s like you know will be the day and if i only didn’t bring it so for us will probably end up getting the apps anyway just cuz i was have my phone with me so bracelet easier.

[20:05] It’s hard drive look into the rest of the right questions over dinner exactly don’t,
sometimes couples will say okay we’re gonna go out on a date and with what for a nice dinner and then.
There they are at this nice restaurant and the food is good the atmosphere is good but then it’s like okay well now what we do here we are what we talk about so the end up talking about the same stuff,
you know were kids and whatever and these apps are these card acts give couples the opportunity to.
I have an old guy needs a little structure and they can simply whore the phone and has to each of these questions and make it in much more meaningful.
Relational experience than it otherwise would have been so now thanks for.
The reminder oh yeah yeah i think it’s a really valuable thing i for many my couples i save right after the first session i want you to go get all these apps for just one of your phone so that when you guys on a date or as we do things with in therapy.
We don’t have to sale now go get this happen are we this app because to me it’s like it’s so much easier to implement when they are having just on their phone.
Oh yes go ahead of us just one of the strings of the government that is that in the.
Training just as the three levels of training so even in the first level of training there are.
All of these pictures sizes and interventions that therapists have available to do with couples in their office and to.

[21:42] Assign those homework exercises for couples to do between sessions if they want to so.
It’s not just a behavior on mechanistic therapy don’t want to imply that you just the whole.
What we’ve match this problem with this exercise and send them on their way those exercises are designed to help couples go deep.

[22:04] Much cheaper than most people would do wrong so.

[22:10] Well that’s for leads me into the conflict area and the next level up would be to manage conflict and it doesn’t to resolve carpet.

[22:22] Alright dr come into the number of longitudinal studies where he follow the same couple so for many years in fact.
The newlywed studies he calls me fall these couples for twenty years just to see what happens in different.
Phases of their relationship and typically he would have the couples come back into his lap every three years.
To see how they’re doing and what are the things you ask them to do was just have a conversation with each other about the current issues or problems in their relationship.
He had a video camera going while they have that discussion after they left he would look at the video tape of a couple just now.
Add me look at the video tape of a couple last time they were in.
And warning found is that for the most part couples were talking about the same issues this time.

[23:14] That they were last time and sometimes the time before that even.
So that they look specifically at the issues that each couple had and what they found is that.

[23:28] The majority of issues that couples have their never gonna solve because then perpetual problems.
In fact sixty nine percent of couples problems or these professional problems thirty one percent would be softball meaning you address the issue and don’t have to come back to in the future.

[23:47] So
And that sounds kinda pessimistic cycle but happy couples also have the majority of the issues that they never release all their.
So one satisfaction relationship depends on can you live with your perpetual problem.
The more likely it how do you deal with your perpetual problem so examples of perpetual problems with the.
Different personality styles one person is outgoing and extroverted and loves to be around people and friday night they want to go out and party.
Turn the other is an introvert who would be totally drained by going out and partying friday night and just once the vent out a hole in the watch a movie or something like that.
Or different political or spiritual views or values or.
One person is in the neck and the other is a messy or one person likes to get places early in the other comes to run late post things.
Generally don’t change.

[24:51] So sometimes those kinds of differences in personality and style can result in their issues becoming brutal act.
In gridlock would be great like you should be the same issue keeps coming up again and again.
Like these couples his urban lab and whatever couples trying talk about it doesn’t go over well there frustrated.

[25:14] There’s no sense of humor there’s no whiteness.
And if they do make any progress it doesn’t last very long in there you know slip back into the swamp all over again so there’s.
Strategies for all these kinds of problems to help a couple get underneath the issue is what is the deeper meaning of the worst this coming from in your history what you need what you value what you afraid of.
There’s a process to help couples.
Slowdowns to spend trying to solve the problem at first focus on understanding and then moving into this.
Copper right process that if it’s a perpetual problem would be a partial compromise.

[26:02] He’s about larger issue forty temporary compromise.
To help them be able to die or about their grid locked or areas of disagreement and much more constructive way.
The compromise process would look at areas that they just can’t yield or flax because it’s too central to who they are what the value.
Just can’t give away their core part of yourself but you wanna keep that is now that area smallest you can so that there’s a larger area flexibility in which to work toward some sort of a compromise processor.

[26:41] Well no one of the things that dr colin is also famous for those.
Four horsemen of apocalypse like he predicted the end of the world predicting the end of the relationship and die we could do it all the whole podcast on that so all this or do that has the summary of.
Helping couples to manage conflict great yeah i do for we could just in this just shows how.

[27:09] Effective in how much researches behind this and i mean no one is a multi day training zumba stuff so i’ll definitely have to have you back on the podcast to go deeper.
I’ll be a give us overview of the four horseman before richmond okay well so first warm use criticism.
And criticism would be making an about the person rather than the issue so far.
Oh here’s a simple thing kind of wondering if i sent to my wife could you please put your bike in the kitchen when you’re finished instead of leaving it laying out here in the.
Your coffee table that actually located because i’m asking her to change her behavior.

[27:54] If on the other hand is a sick and tired of you always leaving your mark here for you never put away apples always or never statements for.
You’re the only person yes to your just messing or your to lazy to put your by the way.
Once you call her messy or lazy for that it’s about her character her personality not about them here.
So the app to talk to criticism yes to.
Make it about the behaviour of the person and to say it in a gentle kind of way basically.

[28:37] The second one is defensiveness and defensiveness use.

[28:45] Basically not taking responsibility for some part of the issue.
It’s just the way to be defensive the most common is what we call the old yeah what about you response here so.
Do as we’re talking your share of working from home today and i’ve got my laptop in a bunch of stuff spread out on the dining room table sort of my office.
So if my wife comes in and says can’t you move your stuff out of the way so we can have dinner on the table here tonight.
If i were defensive i could say on apple what about the stuff you compound up on the kitchen table on.
You’ve got way more of your stuff on the kitchen table that i do for the dining table so where do you get off telling me to move my stuff off the bank he if i did that you know she could do.
She could say oh you wanna see a real mess what about of stuff downstairs that you’ve set your cleanup for what five years now with what about the peaceable notice.
So when i heard of couples having those kind of fights i’ve never really experienced that skinny wills yeah yeah as you say you just.
We can laugh and then it’s like when you’re in as a couple you just don’t recognize what you’re doing and how they it’s great that.

[30:15] You guys are named so that’s defensiveness to stop on here so here’s how you change that.
You know what defensiveness yes if you’re trying to ward off this perceived attack on something and so do one person if they if they don’t bring up in a gentle way it’s like.
No dr gotta talks about well you know they live the five pound cannonball.
And you know the other person goes oh well that was didn’t feel good so they respond with a ten-pound cannonball the other person goes oh well you know you know how people in sorta.
So the antidote is to find something in there to take a little bit of responsibility for his usually there is something in the other persons.
Yo complain to take a little bit but don’t you quit due you don’t have to.

[31:06] Take responsibility for your own but to commit to confess to a crime he didn’t commit.
So back to my timetable example up to say okay just great you know who the stuff out of the way so we can have dinner and maybe this weekend i got more time i can organize the rest of the stuff.

[31:24] Yo and if i happen issue with her stuff on the kitchen table.
Then i would bring up at a different time because if i did that right now then i would be defensive in likely escalating conflict are.

[31:39] So okay so number three of the horsemen with that one.
Is contact in contempt is when one person puts themselves on a higher plane.
Looking down on the other person it’s like i’m better than you in some way it’s like i do are pretty much okay but you on the other hand have some work to do here.
So it could be the the eye roll for this actually a cross cultural facial expression or person boost up the left corner there left a nuclear muscle there.
That’s indicative of content or you it’s that.
We are such an idiot a big size that will.
Or it could be in more extreme cases belligerent person to yelling swearing.
Say you’ll really awful things the other person also or content and.
Actually can tell is the highest predictor of divorce and.
It’s actually also predictive of the number of infectious illnesses that the recipient will experience in the next four years.
So the contemptuous relationship is not only damaging to the relationship but once a health as well.

[33:06] So the antidote to continue to use to.

[33:10] Not describe your partner but describe your all you need your own feelings what you need in to do that in a gentle kind of way it’s kind of like.
The antidote to criticism basically and then the fourth one is stone walling.
Just don’t want us to still dwelling is like.

[33:35] When one person is there physically but they are not engaged in the conversation so to their partner they appear it’s like being a stone walls like you’re talking.
To a wall here cuz you’re not getting water for response back and often that’s the person who stole while wearing all that person the stonewall or is.
Not the exhibit a good eye contact me other arms crossed that may be turned away and what’s going on.
Persue understand what it is what we’re calling the is he had real-time videotaping of couples.
Their heart rate synchronized with their vocalizations and their facial expressions on the video and then.
What he noticed that somebody stonewall he actually showed the couples the tape it and.
Ask the person what they were thinking what was going on inside of them when they were stonewall in.
And also looked at the hungry yeah and what happened is that a person’s heart rate went.

[34:41] Just a brief just a few seconds before they started stonewall and so they were actually in this fight flight.
Three is physiological state of the fuse physiological arousal when that happens you can’t think clearly.
Creative problem solving goes out the window you know that literally fishing in hearing are impaired and as one might imagine when that happens trying to talk about the.
Contentious topic is not going to go over well so the star wars in this physically flexible flooded with your on adrenaline and cortisol so.
And so the antidote is to really disengage and ss self sooth.
So when they ask these people what was going on inside the they were saying things in their self talk like oh no i could say something that.
Don’t say accounts was all just need to get out of here but the but they don’t know what to say so i don’t think anything to actually trying not to escalate but it appears like they are escalating because the disengage.
So that’s what.

[35:52] Thanks for going through those eyes we have just a couple of minutes left and i want to make sure you touch and the shared meaning and just kind of,
briefly give us an overview that last part of the sound relationship house shirtless torque quickly so is.
Ordering life dreams this can be to range for their relationship so much but that’s two people go through life together.

[36:15] If you think that your partner is supportive of what what’s important to you your hopes your dreams for your life then after that brings you closer together.
If you see them on the other hand as an obstacle a beer your hindrance.
Then back of course doesn’t bring you closer together and can create conflicts see don’t have to have the same exact dreams but you do have to find a way to one of those dreams as much as you can.
If one person wants to run a marathon the other person doesn’t have to go running with but they could support that dream by.
Every household responsibilities while they go out and train financially by buying running shoes you see them off at the starting line and lots of ways.

[36:58] A dream without actually experiencing it oneself and then the top level is creating shared meaning in this is really the deeper part.
And sometimes couples learn how to manage conflict constructively they think they know each other pretty well but they’re still saying no is this all there is you know it feels a little boy and sometimes.
So helping couples to go deeper about what’s really important to them what brings meaning in your life and what the meaning is underneath.
Even day-to-day activities like what is it mean to have dinner together.
Or in a conflict area what does it mean to be sick joke just one time i work with this newlywed couple who had this huge fight when he got sick.
And he didn’t feel she supported him and she thought he was a wimp and she go to work and so you know their history the deeper meaning wise.
When he was a kid his mother wait practically make it a national holiday when he was sick to buy my little.
Truck to play with his blanket and make a smoothie for him and give him a lot of attention he remembers quite fondly.
Being still not super sick but you know that kinda six just enough to stay home from school.
Who’s farther was never really an army drill sergeant and her family in less you’ve got stuff coming out of every orifice of your body uncontrollably you are not sick or you’ll have a fever hundred four.

[38:35] And so you just suck it up and you go to school and if you are sick blinds are closed because your sectors no playing around.
So matted he gets back to feel very good control suck it up get up with your you know by abba better get to work.
No it’s all about with the name is underneath all that so both in conflict in building this deeper connectedness of what does that mean to be a couple.
What does that mean for us to be a family ones that need to be a partner what does that mean to be a parent sign a daughter.
Labor was city’s know all kinds of rich waste couples to develop that deeper meaning between.

[39:22] You received wall just brief withhold yeah tells you trust and commitment.
And trust is that which will darken governor of this whole book called science trust and.
No labor person for couples what makes we’ve last had.
What he how he defines us trust metric is it’s not just are you honest and speak the truth and i’ll be part of it but it’s a it’s.

[39:52] As we go through life together and do you have my best interests at heart or do you value what.
What’s important to me if my wishes wants needs desires at the same waffle as you.
Prioritize and your own are you looking out for me you have my back.

[40:13] Event coming up that you was were you gonna do if somebody else comes along you really are you looking for a better deal out there or you can stay committed to me.

[40:25] And a part of that is when we experience tough times are you can get it to work on it or you just gonna hit the door before we really have a chance to work through all this.
That’s that’s commitment that’s a quick one through the sound relationship house.
So the kind that holds together the assessment is designed to help the therapist understand where the couple is specifically i’m each of these dimensions of the sound relationship house.
And then on the intervention side there are all these tools and ways to help couple strengthen those areas in which they have challenges at this point.

[41:09] Here there’s so much to the got man method and i feels like.
For a long time and focus so much on can the business consulting side helping counselors grow and but personally coming out the conference with my wife it and restarted inside of me,
even more love therapy and so and so excited for people that are feeling excited about the research you’ve done and they get begotten institute’s doing in,
and the training the guys are doing so well thank you so much for coming on the podcast davis every counselor in the world were listening right now what would you want them to know.

[41:43] Well i wanted to know that the common method is solemnly grounded in research.
Which is cartons for ten has been doing at we started out as he majored in math and physics he was actually in grad school at em it in math.
When is remain was like my major what you found interesting sweet finished his masters in math and start all over in psychology but he brace the rigor of the scientists to the study of relationships,
in a way that you had done prior to him or even contemporary lake with his mathematical basis,
and then that research leads into a very pragmatic practical tools is you made a comment about this podcast is primarily.
Off to focus on practice building and expects the government to really does that too because therapists who.
Go water become certified in this method.
Have the opportunity to be listed on that will actually after level to train to be list without referral not working in.
Even outside to see our other parts of the country through their secure and we’re getting out and being on the cob web site many have had.
Full practices as a result of that do not stir by even just to let me know that you to what your podcast is all about what from a therapist.
Practice building perspective as well here in northern michigan just being going to the level one.

[43:15] There’s a car being up here that is doing any got man approaches and so just have finished level one is all marketing thing for us because the anyone’s doing an,
i actually had to hold my full supervision group we went through it together so now we have this little army of god and level wonders so true.
Phone contact of level one and level two training wire or its available to home study course small groups can get together at a discounted price.
So we also have you all for your for the listeners here in all of an order products through the gotten website and just.
Type in joe do you sue your name walk for a fifteen percent discount on that’s awesome thank you so much for doing that.

[44:03] Very glad feel like we could talk for days about this and you guys do train for days and i’m so excited about partnering with the got an institute more and just hoping clinicians do better work.
So the best way for people to connect with you guys is to go to gottman.com or what’s the url for the relationship checklist.

[44:23] What you can get there through got to dakar that’s the easiest way to remember it or you can go to check out,
dot mint dark lol i’m and that’s directly to the check up website if you want to by-pass that so and then if you have questions just email to raining at gotten dark on,
and someone will respond to your specific questions whether it’s about product or questions about how to get started or some aspect of this method in.
Need to be very happy to respond to help out,
awesome well dr dave peter from gotten institute thank you so much for being on the practice of the practice podcast you’re welcome my pleasure.
Well thank you so much for letting me in three years and into your brain that you are the best audience in the world,
and if you’re interested in coming and hanging out here in traverse city michigan,
on the water to slow down and then to form the past plan to get your ideal clients to build your ideal practice in your ideal life,
heading over to slowdownschool.com also let’s jump on the phone and talk for fifteen minutes have interested in school that kind of schedule that time talk to you soon.

[45:35] Special thanks to dance ounces sexy for your intro music this podcast is designed to provide after the thirty of information in regards to the subject matter covered,
is given with the understanding that me that holds the publisher for the gas surrendering legal accounting clerical or other professional information if you in a professional is fine when.