• Visit Sabina’s website and connect on Instagram and YouTube.

Joe Sanok 00:00:00  You're someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You're also someone who'd prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else's story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. Again, that's practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe. Session number 1216. I'm Joe and I'm your host. And welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. I am so excited to have you here today. We are going to be having a great conversation.

Joe Sanok 00:01:14  You know, when we're on the show, we talk about how can you build a private practice that is thriving, that is doing well. Kind of the business side of it, but that you absolutely love. We want you to be able to just love your private practice. There's lots of ways that you can make money, but we want to make sure that you're doing it in a way that you're enjoying. So today on the show, we have Sabina Brennan, who I'm so excited to have with us. Sabina is a health psychologist, neuroscientist, and author of three Irish Times bestsellers and podcast host. Sabina, welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast.

Sabina Brennan 00:01:50  Thank you very much for having me.

Joe Sanok 00:01:53  Yeah, I am so excited to have you. so you have been a researcher around brain health. You are an author around brain health, brain fog, brain manifesting. There's a lot of different ways that we can go today, but I want to just first start with, the neuroscience work that you've done.

Joe Sanok 00:02:11  tell me about that and tell me about, things around kind of neuroscience in the brain that just fascinate you.

Sabina Brennan 00:02:18  Yeah. You know, I kind of have an interesting background, in that, I used to be a TV actor. and we have a soap opera here in Ireland that's on five nights a week. And I was one of the main characters in that show. and then, I was the victim of domestic violence in that show. And when my role came to an end, Ireland's quite a small country, and, sort of work dries up a little bit when you've had a main role and then were kind of sort of saying, you know, look, you'll need to sit it out for a while before any other work will kind of come your way. and I thought I might do a night course in psychology, and that little idea turned into a full, full time degree in psychology, and I got a scholarship to do a PhD in the Institute of Neuroscience in Ireland's premier university. and people sort of said to me, and I never went back to acting, and people sort of said to me, oh my God, that's a huge jump, you know, going from acting to psychology.

Sabina Brennan 00:03:18  And I said, well, no, it's actually not a jump at all, because what has fascinated me all my life is the relationship between the human behaviour and the brain. You know, I've always just wanted to understand why we do the things we do, why we behave the way we behave. Acting was one way for me to explore that. You know, trying out other characters. And I remember working on short films and, and, you know, directors saying something to me and I'll say, oh, that's because when she was a child, she did just this and this and this, and I created a whole backstory that the director hadn't even thought about. So I've just as as I think a lot of psychologists, I've just been really fascinated by the human condition. And I suppose the human brain is, in a way, the last frontier of the body. We're learning a lot about it that our knowledge has been accelerated in the last few decades thanks to imaging, fMRI scanners and EEG, etc. and so we're learning more and more.

Sabina Brennan 00:04:18  And while I, I did my PhD and I tried to remember the title of it, Electrophysiological and Neuropsychological Indices of Cognitive Decline in Aging. And so, as you can imagine, I did EEG and I did all that kind of, detailed analysis that, that requires. but while I was doing that research, I did a lot of, you know, my lit reviews going back over the literature on, you know, how to keep your cognitive function going. At that point, brain health wasn't kind of a word that was used. And I found literature going back to 1986. This was around when did I. This was around 2007. So literature going back to 86, that was well understood that that looked at, the concept of cognitive reserve. I don't know if your listeners would be, you know, aware of that, but basically how our lifestyle influences our brain health and can help protect us from cognitive decline and aging and can even help to change the trajectory of a disease like dementia. And I actually just sort of felt this is wrong, that so many academics and there was a whole body of research into this concept.

Sabina Brennan 00:05:36  And following that research in 86, and as someone who had come into academia late, after a regular kind of career, if you can call acting a regular career, I was just blown away that the general public didn't know it and that I didn't know it. And I kind of felt compelled. I felt a moral obligation to share that information in an accessible way. And so when I finished with my PhD, I rather naively applied for funding, from the European Commission. you know, that would be one of your, like, an NIH kind of funding, you know, very prestigious funding. And I discovered they were looking for ways to promote their, sorry, somebody keeps ringing me and they were looking for ways to promote, the health research that they fund. And I kind of in my proposal said, well, you're mad if you think anyone wants to, watch an infomercial about your research. But I said, looking at your goals, the goals of the European Commission funding, it's to add two extra healthy years to people's lives.

Sabina Brennan 00:06:46  And I said, the best way you can do that is to educate people about their brains and about how to keep their brains healthy. And I said, if you give me the money to create online resources in multiple languages. So website and animations app, I will then sort of covertly feed through the information about research that you're funding in that area. And, and they bought into it and they gave me €1 million to do that. And so that started my career of translating science into easy to understand information. I continued then for about ten years, you know, directing a dementia research program and did some very valid research in that area. but then was being moved more and more and actually in demand more and more to speak on media and television and to give talks around that. So I kind of moved part time. Then Covid hit and I was leading, principal investigator on a large scale study like 25 million, around brain. It was called brain fish. And it was about around brain health genomics, lifestyle and dementia risk.

Sabina Brennan 00:07:58  And essentially, you know, we had to shut down the study because of Covid. The funders pulled out and I had no job. And so I just decided, well, you know what? I'm going to just focus full time on, translating neuroscience, writing books, giving talks. and that's what I do, and I absolutely love it.

Joe Sanok 00:08:19  Now you wrote a book during Covid on brain fog. tell us a little bit about that.

Sabina Brennan 00:08:25  Oh, yes. so that's my second book. And I myself have experienced brain fog. brain fog. it's not a disease or disorder or a diagnosis, but it very much exists. And it really is just a sign or a symptom that something is amiss. Much the same as if you have a cough. there is generally a cause. If it's not an infection, it might be an allergy. it could be, you know, gastrointestinal gastro reflux could be a number of things. So kind of brain fog is, has multiple aspects, you know, memory issues, slowing of processing speed, problems with attention, language, learning, memory, various other aspects.

Sabina Brennan 00:09:08  And, it's kind of. So there was a number of reasons I had. I it disproportionately affects women. because some of the underlying causes disproportionately affect women. So autoimmune diseases are one of them. And I have an autoimmune disease myself. and also, neurological conditions like multiple sclerosis and, and migraine. And I also have migraines. So I have very personal experience of brain fog and how debilitating it can be. And so I kind of pitched the idea to my publisher, and she really liked the idea. And so they, you know, gave me an advance and commissioned me to write the book. That was November 2019. By the time the contracts were signed is about kind of February 2020. And I'm writing this book. And then March 2020. We're all in lockdown, and I actually wrote, newspaper articles for The Times, and I made a special edition of my own podcast in the summer of 2020 saying that all the focus on we shouldn't just put, you know, the focus on how many people are dying from the disease.

Sabina Brennan 00:10:11  There's also going to be long term implications in terms of people with brain fog and being unable to to go to work, and that proved to be very much the case. and I suppose one of the main drivers was because hormonal fluctuations, can bring about brain fog. And actually what the research is starting to show is that brain fog is one of the most debilitating symptoms of menopause and perimenopause. and so I have a whole chapter in the book around that, because I felt there was a cohort of women who were sort of sandwiched between, you know, putting their own kids through university, you know, having their own career and then taking care of aging parents, many of whom have dementia. And, you know, a number of factors, including fluctuating hormones and, you know, has led to them experiencing brain fog. But in the absence of any, public discussion or any literature around brain fog, a lot of those women were catastrophizing that they were having early stages of dementia. So that was kind of a main driver to get that information across and say, you know, brain fog is a temporary thing.

Sabina Brennan 00:11:23  And, improving certain lifestyle factors, even if you have an underlying condition, can actually minimize or even, eradicate the symptoms, completely. And I found that when I give talks at menopause conferences, the amount of people who come up and say, oh my God, you've saved my life. You know, I was so worried, I was so concerned. And as you know, stress is going to impact on your ability to function. so people's worries and anxieties are going to impact on how well they can function.

Joe Sanok 00:11:56  Now, I know a lot of your work, recently has been around the brain and goal setting and things like that. and part of this series is kind of the future of brain health. So tell us what what are you thinking when it comes to kind of the future of brain health? When you're thinking about the future of goal setting things like that?

Sabina Brennan 00:12:15  Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the future brain health, I think we need to learn. There's an awful lot more we need to learn and to understand.

Sabina Brennan 00:12:21  I think even just understanding how your brain works, can help you to improve not just your brain health, but your mental health and your physical health. And actually, they're all interlinked. But I kind of feel the brain is is is the main driver, I think. I would love to see a future where we're teaching our kids how to look after their brain health as routinely as we teach them to brush their teeth. You know, your dental health is super important, but your brain health is the most important thing because you can't do anything without your brain, and even something small and malfunctioning can have incredibly debilitating consequences. In terms of goal setting, you know, the my book that's most recently published is called The Neuroscience of Manifesting. But as I was saying to you, Joe, before we, began recording, you know, it could be called the neuroscience of goal setting or the neuroscience of Making Things happen. And my aim in that book was twofold. I wanted to help people understand how their brain works and how they can, make things happen.

Sabina Brennan 00:13:28  Really? You know, how they can harness what we know about the brain, for you to get set goals and and to achieve them. but also, I wanted to dispel a lot of myths that are out there about manifesting, and a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions and a lot of Pseudoscience. But what I didn't want to happen, and what I have seen a lot of, you know, other academics and scientists do is to just dismiss manifesting completely. But for me, a lot of practices in manifesting, are very similar to practices, of cognitive behavioral therapy, which, as you will know, you know, is as far from pseudoscience as you can get. There's so much literature there. And CBT operates on the idea that our thoughts and our perceptions directly influence our behavior. And so to manifesting holds that by consciously directing our thoughts and our emotions, we can influence our actions and consequently the events in our lives. So I kind of like to see manifesting our goal setting or whatever, as the practice of transforming thought into reality by visualizing your goal.

Sabina Brennan 00:14:37  And we know that there's solid science behind visualization and then developing discipline to stay focused on and take action to achieve that goal. And that's what's very important. It's not a passive act of wishful thinking. It's about harnessing your power to visualize, and your power to instruct your brain around what is important and salient salient in your life, so that your salience network is activated and things that are relevant and important to your goal and are filtered in by your brain. and, you know, in that I kind of start off in that book with, with very foundational work. And I think a lot of people talk about goal setting or making things happen or manifesting with gaining clarity about what you want to achieve. And I feel that there's a lot of groundwork to be done before you get to that point. And so the first chapter in my book is about compassion, self-compassion, and learning to be kinder to yourself and acknowledging that self-criticism, which holds a huge amount of us back and self-limiting thoughts. That self-criticism really is a form of self-harm, and you wouldn't dare speak to anyone else the way that you speak to yourself in your head.

Sabina Brennan 00:15:54  And the funny thing, I think, is that if you peel back, if you keep asking people, questions about, you know, what you want, why do you want £1 million? Why do you want this? Why do you want that? Why? They'll come down to the fundamental fact that they want to be happy. And the interesting thing is that one of the key benefits of self-compassion is happiness. Those individuals who are more compassionate towards themselves are happier and more content. So by simply doing that act, you can take yourself a step closer to compassion. And then I also think it's really important to do self-awareness book work. And in the book I call that, connecting with yourself. And I go into the neuroscience around how your brain just constructs your sense of self and how your brain just uses data, to create the story of you, and that much of that data is obsolete or may never have been true, or was true once, and is no longer true, or may simply have been the opinion of one individual you encountered in your life.

Sabina Brennan 00:16:57  And so I think it's really important to do that kind of work, so that you can rewrite a more positive story of yourself and be aware of your own limitations and your own negative beliefs, and then moving to kind of gain clarity about what you want. I think visualizing a goal, serves multiple purposes, actually. And I think one key purpose that's often kind of forgotten is that if you really visualize a goal that you think you want to achieve in great detail, that's kind of when that happens, then your brain is brilliant at solving inverse problems. It can help you work backwards to find out the steps you need to take that goal. But in that process, you may actually discover that the work required or the end result doesn't align with your true values, or may not give you meaning, or may mean that you have to spend more time on that goal than something else you value more. So I think it's, you know, it really is, you know, it's work that allows you to ensure that when you come to the stage of of taking action and, you know, taking steps towards that goal that you are, far more likely to succeed if you have chosen, a goal that is aligned with your values.

Sabina Brennan 00:18:19  And it will be then easier to, you know, to be coherent across your your behavior and your thinking and your actions. it's not easy, but, you know, there's plenty of psychological and, and practices that are harnessed in the manifesting movement that help us, stay on focus and almost act as a support, Heart for our frontal lobes, because maintaining attention focused attention uses a lot of energy. And of course, there's that constant tug of war between our desire to reach a long term goal and our desire for immediate, immediate gratification. And so some of the practices associated with manifesting, like affirmations or having vision boards or writing gratitude journals, can help you stay focused and not get dragged off by something that won't take you closer to your goal.

Joe Sanok 00:19:24  Supervision hours are a big step on your path to licensure, but they shouldn't feel like an obstacle. My friend and fellow therapist, Rachel, felt the same way when she was working toward her own license. She knew there had to be an easier way.

Joe Sanok 00:19:39  That's why she created motivo, giving therapists like you a flexible, supportive way to complete your supervision hours virtually. With over 1200 vetted supervisors nationwide, motivo connects you with the right support for your journey, one that aligns with your goals and clinical niche. So whether you're a therapist collecting hours toward licensure, an organization that hires associate therapists or a clinical supervisor. Head on over to Motivo Health to learn more. Your path to licensure should feel exciting, not exhausting. Get started today at Motivo health. That's Mo Ivo Health to get started today. What do you think? That a lot of the pseudoscience gets wrong? Because I think when people hear manifestation, they right away like write it off with, with things that maybe they would dismiss. so, you know, I think there's, there's obviously people that do believe in that. Like, what would you hope you could clarify?

Sabina Brennan 00:20:42  Well, I.

Joe Sanok 00:20:43  Have a whole science.

Sabina Brennan 00:20:44  Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I have that. That is really at the crux of my book.

Sabina Brennan 00:20:47  So the opening, the introduction is quite long because I do it's called curiosity and, you know, explaining why I wanted to delve deeper. and, you know, manifesting has been frequently written out. I call it weeding out the woo. but when you look at what the scientists are dismissing, you know, and what they're denigrating comments, relate to, they're directed at the misconception that manifesting is a is passive wishful thinking rather than the active practice that I've just described to you. And there's a lot of that out there, you know, with covet manifesting, you know, became hugely popular again. I mean, it's, it's, it's it's been there in, in different forms for, for, for centuries. And, but over Covid and all you have to do is look on the internet and there's people saying, you know, say this word and, you know, 300 times and you'll get £1 million tomorrow, or, you know, close your eyes and wish for it and it will be there.

Sabina Brennan 00:21:47  And then also, you know, harnessing quantum mechanics to explain, what they what is referred to as the law of attraction. And so in the book, I explain the law of attraction is not a scientific law. I explain how scientific laws, become. So and I explained that it is is the power of attention and focused attention that brings things into your life. once you become focused on them, your brain will filter in that information. And so attention, rather than this idea that if you, you know, put an idea out there, you will attract things into your brain or, you know, into your life. I mean, anyone knows the story where, you know, I used to illustrate in, in, in my book that when we got married first we had no money. You know, we were saving for a house. And the battered old car that we had went on fire one day in traffic. So we did dip into our house savings to buy a car. I'm not a car person, and my husband would be.

Sabina Brennan 00:22:50  And this is back in the day when you had to look at newspaper adverts to find a car. And he said to me, I think we should get a Mazda three, two, three. I think that might be a car we'll get cheaply and it will. You know, the older versions are quite good and showy. So he showed me a photograph of it in the newspaper. I'd never seen one in my life before. The next day I'm going to work, and everywhere in traffic I see them popping up. Now, I didn't attract those into my world, but they were there all the time. But they weren't relevant to my life. They weren't salient. My brain had no message to say. Pick those out. They're important. So it's the fact that you have clarity around what is important towards your goal is what gives your brain and, you know, information to to filter that information into into your conscious thinking and in doing so. Opportunities may seem to present themselves. You know, if you take that car, if my brain starts filtering in Mazda3 two threes, I may happen to pass one that has a sign on the front of it saying For sale.

Sabina Brennan 00:23:56  And that might seem like a coincidence, but, I just wouldn't have noticed it if my car hadn't died and I wasn't on the lookout for a new one.

Joe Sanok 00:24:06  Yeah. Now, for people that are listening that that want to optimize their brain to be able to continue to grow their businesses, to be able to grow happiness. What would you say they should be thinking about as they move forward in the coming, say, quarter or year?

Sabina Brennan 00:24:24  Yeah. Well, I do think those first two steps that I spoke about, I think I think learning to treat yourself with compassion, the way you would treat somebody else, I think that's a really, really good step because, that critic in, in our brain, you know, that that self-referential processing in our brain gets in the way, of creativity and in the way of our self-belief. If you think of the, the concept of flow. I'm sure you're familiar with that. But if you look at what happens in the brain when we're in a state of flow, and it is the one time that two usually opposing networks are active together, the default mode network on an attentional network, when you're focused on a task, and the one network that's switched off is your self-referential processing.

Sabina Brennan 00:25:11  So when you're in a state of flow, you can be productive and creative. And there isn't that self critic getting in the way. So, you know, sort of one step towards that I think would be, to, to be kind to yourself if you want to look after your brain health and more generally, you know, I think, a lot of the things just apply to, to, you know, general physical and mental health. Really physical activity is one of the best things you can do for your brain health. And your brain relies on a healthy cardiovascular system to get the oxygen and nutrients it needs to function well. But also when you exercise, a chemical called B and DF brain derived neurotrophic factor, I call it Miracle-Gro for the brain. It is released and it helps to promote neuroplasticity, which is really important for brain health, physical exercise, mental stimulation. It doesn't have to be academic. but it can be once it involves learning of some kind, some sort of challenge and some sort of novelty, that, again, is going to harness neuroplasticity.

Sabina Brennan 00:26:19  Social engagement is absolutely critical. We learn so much from from other people. and it really, you know, all the research shows how important it is for our brain health. Anything that's good for your heart is good for your brain. Sleep, I think, is one of the biggest places we fall down, particularly if you're talking about having a business and the temptation to work around the clock and to work late to solve problems. you know, that's counterproductive. we put way too much, store in the ability of our conscious brain. and forget about, the unconscious parts of our brain that are capable of solving problems and making connections. And basically, you know, if you're trying to solve a problem, you know, do the work or come up with ideas. Do the groundwork. Take a break. Do something different. That's restorative. Have fun. Laugh. Go to bed. Have a good night's sleep and your brain will have worked away in the background. And, you know, whether it's after one sleep or three sleeps or whatever, solutions will come to you.

Sabina Brennan 00:27:30  We've all had those moments and the same happens really, when we daydream, when we let our brain idle. you know, you're you're kind of allowing, the unconscious parts of your brain to make connections, and come up with ideas and innovation. I do think that having fun and taking a break and laughter are critical. I think we can take ourselves too seriously, particularly if we're focused on a on a goal or on a business goal. for ourselves and I would say schedule, an hour in every day to have fun, to do something that makes you smile or make you makes you laugh because stress is going to, you know, it's going to interfere with your ability to function well, and it's going to interfere with your ability to make, important decisions. And laughter is nature's natural stress buster. It actually lowers our cortisol levels. So I think it's really important, to do that. And, you know, move away from this culture where we work through our lunch, where we work late into the night and expect to sleep when our brain is still fired up with all the things that we were working on.

Sabina Brennan 00:28:48  So more breaks can mean more efficiency. And I think. Isn't that you? Actually, it's just dawned on me. Didn't you do four day week?

Joe Sanok 00:28:56  Yeah, yeah. So Thursday is the new Friday. I was actually, writing that about the same time you were, I signed my, my contract on April 15th of 2020. And, I was writing that throughout the pandemic as well, so.

Sabina Brennan 00:29:11  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that was hard. Like, certainly. I mean, I was writing my deadline was actually around the day you signed your contract. I had to deliver my book. and I was really struggling because if you remember, way back in, in that early stage, it was, oh, my God, what's going on? What's happening? You know, and we were in this heightened state of stress and we weren't sleeping. And it was a classic example for me of how stress impairs your ability to function. You know, I sent a message to my, my publisher, and I said, I'm having days where I'm sitting here and, you know, I'm lucky if I get, you know, 50 words on a page.

Sabina Brennan 00:29:50  And that's not how you write a book. And she was very kind. She she just said to me, I'm the same. We're all the same. We can't function. She said, just take your time. And and I did just need sort of that few weeks of a reset and we slipped into, we slipped into a sort of a new form of life because our brain adapts. You know, we kind of adapted to, to the pandemic and learned how to live that way. But it was just the my deadline happened to be at the very initial stages when we were trying to figure out, how do we do this? but yes. So I, you know, I'm sorry I haven't I haven't read your book. I'm. I must look at it, but, Yeah, I'm sure kind of. That's where you're you're coming from. In a way. It's it's it's balance.

Joe Sanok 00:30:37  Absolutely. Well, Sabina, the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Sabina Brennan 00:30:45  Oh, gosh.

Sabina Brennan 00:30:46  What would I want them to know? I would want them to know that they are making a difference. I think a lot of us need to feel that we're making a difference. And often you don't get that feedback. And if they're honest and true with their work, they're making a difference.

Joe Sanok 00:31:09  So awesome. If people want to get your books, if they want to follow your work, where should we send them?

Sabina Brennan 00:31:15  well, I'm terrible. Yeah, but if they want to catch me on social media. Instagram. Sabina Brennan my books are all available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all those places. And a lot of them are. Well, all of them are in an audio. I've been very fortunate to be allowed to read. you know, my my own audio. yeah, I need to go.

Speaker 3 00:31:38  I know, I know, I know, I need to do more social media. I also need to have a life. That's that's it. I often, I, I often wonder how how.

Sabina Brennan 00:31:49  Authors.

Speaker 3 00:31:49  Prior.

Sabina Brennan 00:31:50  To social media sell.

Speaker 3 00:31:51  Their books.

Joe Sanok 00:31:53  Yeah. Right. Right. Well, and we'll have links to all that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

Sabina Brennan 00:31:59  You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.

Joe Sanok 00:32:07  Go focus on your brain. Take the time to implement what we just talked about today. Also, we could not have done today's episode without motivo. Giving therapists like you a flexible, supportive way to complete your supervision hours virtually. With over 1200 vetted supervisors nationwide, Motivo connects you with the right support for your journey, one that aligns with your goals and clinical niche. So whether you're a therapist collecting hours towards licensure, an organization that hires associate therapist or a clinical supervisor. Head on over to Motivo Health to learn more. Your path to license should feel exciting, not exhausting. Get started today at Motivo health. That's Mo Veo health. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day.

Joe Sanok 00:33:01  I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band. Silence is sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.