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What happens when traditional depression treatments stop working? Could a single psychedelic-assisted therapy session create lasting change? What does the latest research reveal about psilocybin’s potential in mental healthcare?
In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok discusses using psilocybin for treatment-resistent depression with Kabir Nath.
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Meet Kabir Nath
Kabir Nath is the Chief Executive Officer of Compass Pathways, where he leads the company’s mission to develop innovative, evidence-based treatments for mental health conditions. With more than 30 years of leadership experience in the biopharmaceutical industry, he has held senior executive roles at Otsuka Pharmaceutical and Bristol Myers Squibb. Kabir holds a Master’s degree from the University of Cambridge and an MBA from INSEAD.
Visit Compass Pathways and connect with Kabir on LinkedIn.
In This Podcast
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Definitions of treatment-resistent depression
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Psilocybin trials for depression
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Stories of change
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Kabir’s advice to private practitioners
Definitions of treatment-resistent depression
Treatment-resistent depression is a regulatory definition … [for] people who have been failed by at least two treatments in their current episode of depression. (Kabir Nath)
However, Kabir sees something different.
In their clinicial trials, they see people with chronic refractory depression, where they typically have depression for decades, or experience multiple depressive episodes, where a current episode lasts for more than three or four years.
People who struggle with chronic refractory depression are the ones that Kabir are usually working with in their studies with psilocybin.
Psilocybin trials for depression
We’ve done these studies in good clinical study fashion by comparing against something, in the phase two and one of the phase threes, that’s comparing against a very low dose of psilocybin, or an intermediate dose … In the other study, we’ve compared that dose against a true inner placebo. (Kabir Nath)
In their trials, Kabir and his team have shown that in a single administration of the dose can produce profound effects on depression symptoms in a percentage of patients.
For most patients taking the 25mg amount, this roughly equates to a six hour, intense subjective psychedelic experience.
What we’re showing in our studies is that after just one, or perhaps two in some cases, of those sessions, at least a quarter of patients have a profound, clinically-meaningful response in terms of their depression symptoms. (Kabir Nath)
Stories of change
While the focus of the trials have so far been on treatment-resistent depression, Kabir and his team have started studying the effects of pscilocybin treatment for PTSD.
What we are hearing … [are] people who have had significant experiences with psychedelics are among the most important experiences of their lives. Highly transformative, and in ways that people talk about, “Getting their lives back” as well, not just kind of a remission or a significant improvement in depression symptoms, but also ways of actually thinking differently about … whole aspects of their lives. (Kabir Nath)
There is transdiagnostic potential here for this type of work. Whether the label is depression, anxiety or PTSD, in the right setting for the right people, psilocybin and profound psychedelic experiences can improve lives across the board.
However, regardless of the incredible benefits that can be possible, it is strongly person-dependent.
It’s not a cure, it doesn’t work for everyone. Some people have a profound experience but need more time to work through it, and some don’t necessarily have that objective experience even at this significant dose. (Kabir Nath)
Kabir’s advice to private practitioners
We are on the cusp of making psilocybin as another very powerful tool to assist people suffering from serious mental health issues, and we are on the way of integrating these medicines alongside medical practices and ethics.
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Meet Joe Sanok
Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners who are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.
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