Psychedelics and Therapy with Kate Kincaid | POP 1383

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Could psychedelic-assisted therapy offer new possibilities for clients who have not found relief through traditional approaches? What happens when clients can revisit painful experiences without becoming overwhelmed by them? How might leaning into your passions and specialties become the very thing that attracts the right clients to your practice?

In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks about psychedelics and therapy with Kate Kincaid.

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Meet Kate Kincaid

Kate Kincaid, LPC, is a therapist, author, and educator specializing in psychedelic-assisted therapy, ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, relationships, and trauma treatment. She is the founder of Tucson Counseling Associates, a group private practice in Arizona, and works extensively with LGBTQIA+ communities, non-monogamous relationships, and psychedelic integration. Kate is the author of several books, including The Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy Treatment Companion, and is a frequent speaker and trainer on psychedelic therapy, social justice, and relationship health.

Visit Kate’s website and connect on Instagram. Check out her publications.

What ketamine is and how it can be used in therapy

Ketamine, it’s an anesthetic, so it can be used in surgery. Some of the early research in ketamine 10, 15 years ago … was noticing that it was being used in an IV for pain … and the antidepressant affects afterwards, so now it’s being used off-label as something for treatment-resistant depression. (Kate Kincaid)

At it’s core form, ketamine is a synethic molecule. It can be taken a variety of ways, and it’s not a classic psychedelic, because it works on a different neurotransmitter, but it has all the same classic hallmark affects of other psychedelics. 

The experience can typically last on the shorter side, usually around an hour and a half.  It has been successfully used to treat treatment-resistant depression, anxiety, and PTSD. 

Becoming a ketamine-assistant therapist

While there are no official guidelines at the moment, Kate recommends that, if you want to learn how to legally and ethically offer ketamine-assisted therapy, you should take a two to three day experiental training session. 

Over this session you receive the medicine, and it helps you understand what your clients may be experiencing, as you would have then experienced it yourself. 

It is essential that you work with your attorney and a local doctor in order to make sure that the services you provide are within legal statutes. 

Ketamine tempers the limbic system. It quiets the default mode network, which is your personality or your beliefs systems, which can sometimes get rigid. It softens all that, so there’s more openness, more flexibility, [where] you can see yourself in a different light. (Kate Kincaid) 

Simply put, ketamine-assisted therapy can help a client make space around their thoughts and mental landscape in order for them to start making changes in how they perceive themselves, other people, or the world around them. 

Different types of experiences with psychedelics

1 – Ketamine: shorter-acting, but the experience creates a general feeling of “okayness” where the client feels acceptance and peace, and that everything is calm and fine around them. 

[On ketamine] they can access traumatic material or things that they’re maybe working on, but they’re not getting flooded in their body, they’re not feeling overwhelmed, because there’s that anesthetic quality [where] you’re calm, relaxed, and you feel like sedated a little bit … That’s a signature of ketamine, but it’s not true for everyone, people can have all different experiences on it, but that’s what I see is common. (Kate Kincaid)

2 – MDMA: You are more turned outward and you feel connected. There’s a lot of feeling of love and connection, and you often want to dance or move around. 

3 – Psilocybin: With psilocybin, it can take different forms. Some people feel wild and silly, where others may feel loving and connected with others, or introspective, or a heaviness where you can see the difficult things in your life or the world. 

4 – LSD: This can sometimes be a combination of psilocybin and MDMA, and can induce a lot of visual affects. 

5 – Ayahuasca: A personal journey held in a group setting, and the experience can be so varied.  

Working with couples with EMDR and ketamine

Typically Kate would use lower doses with couples who are doing ketamine-asisted EMDR therapy work, because if the doses are too strong, the clients are more likely to go too deeply into their personal work. 

When you’re on a psychedelic dose of ketamine, you’re in your own world and you’re not really interacting, so you can’t really process … You can’t go a guided process, like EMDR is very active … and the same with couples, because the point is to talk to each other and have a couple’s session, so you can’t be on too much ketamine for that to happen. (Kate Kincaid) 

You want your clients sitting up, eyes open, talking and engaging with one another. If the dose is too strong, they may withdraw into themselves, and want to disconnect from having to engage with another. 

Kate’s advice to private practitioners

Put yourself out there with your passions, because it becomes a beacon that brings people to you. 

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Meet Joe Sanok

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners who are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

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