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Can emotional regulation be taught like reading or math? What happens when technology starts offering comfort instead of therapy? How can modalities like DBT evolve without losing their integrity in a world increasingly driven by AI?
In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok discusses Real Skills for Real Life: DBT, AI, and the Future of Emotional Support with Shireen L. Rizvi, PhD., and Jesse Finkelstein, PsyD.
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Meet Shireen L. Rizvi, PhD
Meet Jesse Finkelstein, PsyD
In This Podcast
- The evolution of DBT beyond borderline personality disorder
- The intersection between AI, emotional support, and ethical therapy
- Everyday skills for emotional regulation and resilience
- Balancing acceptance and change in a polarized world
- Advice for private practitioners
The evolution of DBT beyond borderline personality disorder
Dr. Rizvi highlights how DBT has evolved far beyond its original use for severe mental health challenges. Over the past 20 years, its principles have proven helpful across the mental health spectrum, including showing benefits for everyday stress management.
What I would say is important for people who are listening to know is that what has evolved over the past 20+ years of research in DBT is that it’s actually being used across the board for a wide range of mental health problems … DBT is not just for borderline personality disorder – it’s for everyone. (Dr. Shireen Rizvi)
Dr. Rizvi explains that both therapists and clients benefit from learning DBT skills.
Her motivation for writing Real Skills for Real Life was to make those tools more accessible to a wider audience, including people who might never enter formal therapy or who could not afford therapy for an extended period.
The intersection between AI, emotional support, and ethical therapy
Dr. Finkelstein, drawing on his background in user experience design, explains that while AI platforms can provide reassurance and validation, they rarely promote behavioral change.
A lot of these AI platforms want and measure success by user engagement, and that’s not necessarily how we measure success in therapy. What I have noticed, and this is through work with clients, is that in many ways a number of these platforms can do the … acceptance … They are offering people reassurance, sympathy, validation, [but] in the absence of change. (Dr. Jesse Finkelstein)
Both Jesse and Shireen agree that while AI has the potential to expand access to support, it has to be built on evidence-based models like DBT to avoid reinforcing unhelpful patterns.
Therefore, they argue that clinicians need to educate their clients on how to use AI effectively – supplementing, not replacing therapy.
Therapists and clinicians can support a client’s change and progress through therapy, which is the real driving force behind improving a person’s life, rather than merely providing assurance or validation, as AI does.
The reality is that AI is here … We can’t suddenly have this thing disappear, so I think something Shireen and I have talked about and are thinking about is … How do we educate consumers on how to engage and interact with some of these technologies effectively? (Dr. Jesse Finkelstein)
Everyday skills for emotional regulation and resilience
Both Dr. Rizvi and Finkelstein emphasize the practicality of DBT tools for anyone navigating their personal, everyday challenges.
Rizvi outlines the core strategies, such as accumulating positive experiences, building mastery, and practicing mindfulness of emotions.
Another main take-home skill, one that I have started to practice as I’ve gotten older, is mindfulness of emotions, meaning: noticing, becoming aware of emotions when I have them, [and] knowing that I don’t have to act on them nor do I have to try to get rid of them, I can just notice and experience them. (Dr. Shireen Rizvi)
She explains that consistent daily habits, such as doing small tasks that bring joy or a sense of accomplishment, can greatly reduce emotional vulnerability while also promoting long-term regulation.
Balancing acceptance and change in a polarized world
Addressing how to manage overwhelming global and social issues, both Rizvi and Finkelstein describe DBT’s dialectical core: holding two truths at once. They emphasize that acceptance and change coexist.
It helps me increase my acceptance of what is happening, and I think the key piece of this from a dialectical therapy lens is that acceptance does not mean approving of or liking it. I can not like many things that are happening right now, but I can understand how they got to be this way. (Dr. Shireen Rizvi)
Finkelstein adds that this mindset helps clinicians and clients alike find “the middle path”, compassionately deciding when to act, when to rest, and when to acknowledge both realities.
Both truths can exist … DBT we’re often looking for a synthesis and a middle path, and that middle path is constantly changing. What feels grounded in one moment … may not be the same thing in a week, let alone a year, so I think there’s a degree of compassion and gentleness that’s helpful … I’m often asking myself, “Okay, in this moment, what does that synthesis look like?”“ (Dr. Jesse Finkelstein)
Advice to private practitioners
The core message that both Shireen and Jesse want you to walk away from this podcast with is one of connection and lifelong learning.
Rizvi: “If you feel stuck with a client or with yourself, learn about DBT skills – there’s a whole evidence-based toolbox waiting for you.”
Finkelstein: “You can’t do this work alone. Consult with AI if you want, but always consult with real people too.” (32:46)
Books mentioned in this episode:
Shireen L. Rizvi, PhD, and Jesse Finkelstein, PsyD: Real Skills for Real Life: A DBT Guide to Navigating Stress, Emotions, and Relationships
Sponsors Mentioned in this Episode:
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Useful links mentioned in this episode:
- Visit Therahive and connect with Jesse on Instagram.
- Check out our Practice Academy!
- Sign Up to the Group Practice Boss Conference!
Check out these additional resources:
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Meet Joe Sanok
Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners who are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.
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