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This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Santos. Session number 1050. I’m Joe Cenac, your host, and welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. Joe Sanok 00:01:22 I am so excited to have you here today. We help people build thriving private practices that they absolutely love. There are so many ways in the world to make money. you could have done a billion different things. You could have chosen not to be a therapist. You could choose to be a therapist and do nothing therapeutic. You can do all sorts of things, but we want you in this short life to have a practice you absolutely love. For some of you, that’s a solo practice that is clicking along and you have an assistant and you don’t want to group practice. For others of you. You have a mega group practice, you’re taking over the world. And, for others of you, you got that practice going and you’re launching podcasts and courses and coaching and keynotes and getting big book deals wherever you’re at in your private practice journey. We are here, I think, almost every day, 6 or 7 days a week now, I can’t keep up, because we’ve got some amazing guests, we’ve got amazing podcast sponsors. Joe Sanok 00:02:20 I just get to hang out and talk to people. when I was a little kid, almost every report card in elementary school said Joey talks to his neighbor too much. I would finish my assignments, my tests. I’d try to be quiet and draw pictures and do art and be creative. But inevitably I would turn to someone around me and start talking to them, and now I get paid to do that. I’m really excited about our guest today. I’m going to introduce Sara in just a second. but, you know, I was down in Asheville. I was visiting, Andrew, one of the consultants here with practice, the practice, and also Alison Perrier, who has abundance practice building and was hanging out with some other friends down in Asheville. And I was walking around on this afternoon. I had just had this amazing vegan meal and this one area, and there was this store, and I just looked it up before this so that I could give the proper name. It’s called madam Clutter buckets, neurodiverse universe, madam clutter buckets, neurodiverse universe. Joe Sanok 00:03:16 And it is the most unique cool store I think I may have ever been in. I’ve been in some pretty cool stores, but the concept at the front door they tell you all about it is that this this person she had, I think it was like a son that was super creative but couldn’t sell his art anywhere. And so, Madame Clutter Bucket, as she goes by now, opened the store and then has all these different tables that people can curate their own art, their own things that they’re into. There was one table that was just all these weird, interesting vintage lunch boxes. And from the very beginning it was if you need noise cancelling headphones, if our music’s too loud, please let us know. The world is changing in a positive way in that autism being on the spectrum, having just things that when I was raised in the 80s and 90s, were given very negative words, like, I have a friend who he never had to study for school. He was the one that I was always jealous of. Joe Sanok 00:04:20 I was best man in his wedding. and I remember, like, I wasn’t great with girls, but in ninth grade, before the dance, like he and I were talking through, like, how do you walk up to a girl and ask them to dance? And we were like, practicing as he’s like, you know, teen tween boys. And just a couple of years ago, he was diagnosed with autism. And so much makes sense that I wish he had had the kind of things that are out there now to help people just figure out what their superpowers are. And that’s why I’m so excited to have a conversation with Sarah Cook today. Sarah is an autistic writer, poet, and creativity mentor, and through one on one coaching and small group work, she helps her clients build resilient creative practices both on and off the page. She lives in Oregon, where she publishes For the Birds, a newsletter about creativity, neuro divergence and the natural world. We’ll talk a little bit more and tell you where you can hear more about her. Joe Sanok 00:05:13 Sarah, welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. Sarah Cook 00:05:17 Hey, Joe, it’s so great to be here. Joe Sanok 00:05:19 Yeah, well, before we started recording, we were talking about kind of where to start. And just about a year ago, you were diagnosed with autism. And I would love to hear that story. But then the way that you described it to me before we started rolling, that I would love for you to dig into, I was like, stop, don’t say anyone out there like you are going through this playbook of your life and like things are making more sense to you. So take, take me through. Like, how did you get assessed? What happened, where you thought that was something you wanted to look into? How does that reframe a lot of your life up to this point? Sarah Cook 00:05:52 Yeah, let’s just dig right in. So I, I will clarify first of all that definitely since high school, for for the large majority of my life, I have always been pretty certain that I have OCD and I’ve had this sort of repeating cycle of what my therapeutic journey has looked like, where I will sort of experience kind of a build up of symptoms or internal things that are taking place in me. Sarah Cook 00:06:19 And I will get started with a new therapist and bring these concerns to them, talk about what I think is happening, and make this claim that I think I have OCD, and pretty quickly the therapist will say, I don’t think you have OCD. They’ll talk to me about mindfulness. They’ll kind of lead me in some other directions, but it always kind of stays very surface level. To be frank, I’ve always had the experience or the sense that when I in the past, I’ve tried to talk to a therapist about some of the things that I am struggling with, that they think I’m doing better than I claim that I’m doing. There was just always a little bit of that kind of flavor to the conversation. So. So I’d say, okay, I guess I don’t, I guess I don’t have OCD kind of go on with my life, work with that therapist for a short duration of time, and then it would usually end and I’d continue on my way. And what changed within this last year was I found a new therapist, a neurodivergent therapist. Sarah Cook 00:07:20 Coincidentally. And went to her. Brought my same list of concerns. My same, you know, struggles with emotional regulation, my same assessment that I think I probably have OCD. And she said something different to me. She said, you know, I’m not hearing you describing anything that’s really seeming like OCD to me. But let’s get curious. And it was the first time that I had a therapist who really was like, I want to understand. Like she was she was less concerned with whether I was getting something right or wrong about what I thought I was experiencing. She was more interested in just being so, like, generously curious about what was going on inside of me and why I might be reading it the way I was. And that just really took us off on a different direction that I had never gone in with a therapist before. We went deep, we went internal, and, you know, just really dug into some things that I, in a way that I hadn’t even understood was possible in therapy. Sarah Cook 00:08:28 And, you know, some months into doing that work. We got to the point where pretty organically, you know, I was starting to feel really interested in in diagnostics and interested in a framework for what might be happening. And, we had a conversation about that, and she asked me to think about if there were any diagnoses that I wanted us to explore. Of course, I said OCD, and I, I mentioned bipolar disorder because I not because I thought that I had it, but because I thought there was something useful in the symptoms to just help guide us and guide me in articulating an experience that I tend to have. and she said, okay, that sounds great. Can I offer a suggestion? And I said, of course. And she said, I think we should explore autism. Joe Sanok 00:09:16 And and how many sessions in were you at that point? Sarah Cook 00:09:21 Oh my goodness my my brain is really bad with timing. Time does not make sense to me. We’d been working together for months. I mean, we we had established yeah, we had established a relationship, a rapport. Sarah Cook 00:09:34 I felt really good and safe with this person. And she had also been observing things that she she shared. She’d been observing, from day one. So, yeah, that we had a we had a an established relationship at that point. Joe Sanok 00:09:51 Yeah, yeah. So you you understood and tell me if this is correct. You you understood that it was. Okay. I’m curious about this. As your therapist, I think these could be some things that could be helpful. we’re not diving into diagnosis on day 1 or 2, and just you leading that process of, you know, here’s what I might want to look into on these diagnoses and then asking permission to say, well, can I, can I throw my $0.02 in also? would you say that’s pretty accurate as to kind of how she approached it? Sarah Cook 00:10:19 Yeah, absolutely. And it was it was the first time I became aware of the role of consent in therapy. Right. It was such a it was such a powerful moment. And and it leads into this, this thing I was saying before we started recording where you said, don’t say anything more, where truly I, I, I’ve tried to write about this. Sarah Cook 00:10:41 I think the best, I think the clearest I’ve gotten is probably on the page, but I’ll do my best to speak to it. When she said the word autism, it was like there was a thing somewhere inside my body that had always known, but it was not a thing I knew how to access. And when she said it, I felt this like burst of something happen in my body and my brain where they were both in dialogue and there was just this, this wild experience of knowing like, oh my God, I’m autistic. I’ve always been autistic. And thank God this person has finally named it and brought it to the surface. And I truly have. Just like everything has changed since that moment. Joe Sanok 00:11:26 How did that how did that kind of help you reframe things that had happened throughout your childhood or teen years, or before you were diagnosed? Sarah Cook 00:11:34 Yeah, I mean, you know, part of it and I had mentioned this to you, you know, it’s I’m doing that thing and I’m starting to find lots and lots of stories from late diagnosed autistic adults, and especially women. Sarah Cook 00:11:47 But, you know, all kinds of people with all kinds of identities who are finding this late in life and going through this process that I’m experiencing, where it’s like I’m seeing, you know, the movie reel of my life playing in front of me. And, and I’m just seeing how things made sense, ways that I was, things that I struggled with, things I’ve always liked or disliked and just, I cannot overemphasize the gift of being able to understand the context of why something is happening like it. Knowing that I’m autistic doesn’t mean that the things that I struggle with have gone away, but it means that when I’m having a day where I’m having a really hard time regulating myself, or I’m really struggling with a certain social thing or, you know, any, any number of things that I experience on a day to day basis. The fact that I have a framework for understanding why that’s happening means I’m less scared. So what it means is I can be there with myself for myself and understand, okay, this is happening because my brain tends to need this. Sarah Cook 00:12:54 I’m not getting this in this moment. I need to cope in this way. And it’s just it’s a it’s like a different it’s a different way of being with myself because before I would experience all these same things and would also have no idea why they were happening, which also, frankly, made it easier for me to just think something was wrong with me, or think that I was broken or messed up or or to just be really kind of inexplicably angry about the situation. Like, it just it was like having a blindfold on and I just could only assess things so much. Joe Sanok 00:13:31 Is there an example of like when that really like you were like, what is happening that that would just like help us kind of picture that? Sarah Cook 00:13:38 Sure. Yeah. I can give like a small but a really tangible example. I, I go once a week to this indoor rowing class and, you know, we do a lot of, like, circuits, and the instructor is really good at coming up with, like, a whole kind of complicated routine for the day. Sarah Cook 00:13:57 And we’re sometimes, like, moving around in the studio. And some days the instructions for that can be just like a lot of information and really hard for me to process the first time she says it and I can get a little bit. I’m I’m very sensitive to like, space and environment and so on those days when we’re like moving around a lot, it can actually be hard for me because I sort of like to I’ve noticed that I like to have, you know, my rower, my space for the day and not move at all. And so in the past, when I’ve, you know, gone to a class that I’ve found especially confusing or overwhelming, I will start to get really frustrated with myself for not understanding, or I’ll feel like I’m mad at the teacher right now. Or maybe I don’t. Maybe it turns out I don’t like this class after all. Or you know, it’s just a lot of like, kind of panicked finger pointing either at myself or at the other person or at the space. Sarah Cook 00:14:51 And I remember so vividly the first rowing class I went to after my diagnosis, because it was an especially, complicated set of routines that day. And I she started to explain, and I realized I wasn’t understanding, and I, I felt this thing in my brain start to become angry. And then it was almost like everything paused and I went into, like, my wise mind or something, and I just saw, oh, oh, I’m autistic. This is too much information and I’m just not processing it all in real time. Okay, I’m going to have to either ask her to explain it again, like go up to her privately and ask, or I might have to, like, look at my peers a little extra like and and again, it didn’t it didn’t resolve the thing of like helping me understand in real time what was happening. But how I responded to it was so different because I just I just had this, like, understanding and empathy for why I was having a hard time understanding the things that everybody around me seemed to understand. Joe Sanok 00:15:58 Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. As a therapist I can tell you from experience that having the right EHR is an absolute lifeline. I recommend using therapy notes. They make billing, scheduling, notetaking, telehealth, and e-prescribing incredibly easy. Best of all, they offer live telephone support. It’s available seven days a week. You don’t have to take my word for it. Do your own research and see for yourself. Therapy notes is the number one highest rated EHR system available today, with a 4.9 out of five stars on Trustpilot. Com and on Google, all you have to do is click the link below or type promo code Joe on their website over at Therapy notes.com and receive a special two month trial. Absolutely free. Again, that’s therapy notes.com and use promo code Joe on the website if you’re coming from another EHR. Therapy notes will also import your demographic data quick and easy at no cost, so you can get started right away. Trust me, don’t waste any more of your time and try therapy notes. Joe Sanok 00:17:09 Just use promo code Joe at checkout. Now how? Like you do a lot of work with people that are creative, that are autistic, and you do a lot of work with people that are, and you do all sorts of work. Take me through kind of how did you get into that work? And, you know, were you doing that before you were diagnosed? And how is that changed now that you have the diagnosis? Like, tell me about your work and kind of creativity? Sarah Cook 00:17:38 Yeah, such a good question. Writing has been a part of my life since, truly, I was old enough to just hold a pen. My mom tells this great story about how I would just. I was just like, obsessed with language and writing from such an early age that before I could even, had the capacity, you know, cognitive capacity to, like, develop my own stories or my own whatever, I would just pick up pieces of paper and pens and walk around the house and copy down all the language I saw. Sarah Cook 00:18:09 So when I helped my mom clean out her house a couple of years ago before she sold it and moved, I came across all these boxes of, you know, stuff I had made when I was a kid, and there were just all these pieces of paper that had, like, appliance names on them or like, like whole chunks of copy from the back of cereal boxes or like, you know, I just, I there was something about language and writing things down that felt so magical to me. Like this idea that, oh my gosh, there’s this code that we can produce and it means things and it’s, I don’t know it. Language and writing have always felt like a secret code to me. And I there’s something very like childlike in that feeling, but it’s frankly it’s a feeling I still, I still have today. So writing was always really important with for me drawing, doing things on the page, but but things with words in particular. And I’ve always written prolifically and so because of that just, you know, made the decision pretty easily to become an English major, went on to grad school, got my masters in poetics and creative writing, and then realized kind of last minute that academia was, you know, for all the things that that space and that education gave me, it was also not the most nourishing space. Sarah Cook 00:19:29 And again, one of those things where I look back and I see, oh, yeah, I was an undiagnosed autistic person in these really intense classroom spaces that, you know, demanded that we know things right away and quickly and that there wasn’t a lot of space for taking our time or being with uncertainty or, you know, I also didn’t know that I was someone who maybe needed accommodations. I mean, you know, it’s just there’s there’s a lot of clarity that I have now, of course. But anyway, so I, I, pivoted away from academia and went into social work, and I was in that space for about eight years. So, primarily doing like, housing advocacy work. So I worked at a, shelter for homeless and runaway teens. Then I ended up running my own, transitional house for young adults who were struggling with houselessness. A lot of those people were past foster youth who were aging out of the system and in need of a little extra support. most recently, before I became self-employed, I was working at a community mental health agency, running our housing program specifically for clients whose mental illness and whose mental health needs were making it hard for them to either get or maintain their housing. Sarah Cook 00:20:50 So spent about eight years in that space. the work I’m doing now, I describe myself as a trauma informed creative mentor and, you know, strengths based writing coach. I really see it as the marriage of those two trajectories that I was on. It’s it’s the I mean, it’s the lifelong love and devotion to writing and the education around writing and creativity. And then it’s this recognition of how much I value advocacy work, how much I value, being a being a service based practitioner, really, you know, helping people tend their creativity, helping people to feel more empowered through their use of their creativity. in terms of what has changed, I mean, frankly, what I have realized and this is a pretty recent revelation that you might be one of the first people I’m saying this to. I’ve come to understand that writing for me was one of not only my first coping mechanisms, but a kind of stem. It was one of the first things I did and found that could help me to feel present with myself in a world that, to this day is still, you know, it’s it’s kind of hard for me to fully feel where I fit in in the three dimensional living, But on the page, oh my goodness, my personhood becomes so, so clear. Sarah Cook 00:22:17 So that’s a big long answer to your question. Joe Sanok 00:22:20 Well what is creativity mean for you. Like what does that look like personally it’s one thing when we teach something but then how we enact that in our personal lives, like what does creativity look like as a habit or as just things that you’re, you’re drawn to? Sarah Cook 00:22:35 Yeah. I mean, it looks mostly like a pretty, consistent writing practice. I write a lot of poetry. I write a lot of personal essays. I do a little bit of fiction, but just having a regular writing practice where I’m showing up on the page. And for me, you know, the thing about writing that makes it so magical and necessary, even in like, what I’ll say is like a therapeutic capacity is it’s a space where, you know, you can go to the page and be curious or be uncertain about something and process it and discover something about it. I often for me, the writing process is not. I have this light bulb over my head, and here’s my thesis and here’s the argument I want to sit down and and map out. Sarah Cook 00:23:23 It’s usually there’s a feeling or an experience or a quality of attention that I’m paying to something. And I I’m curious and I want to know more about it. And so I go to the page to figure that out. So I really experience writing as a way that frankly, it’s, it’s there’s a kind of a regulation and emotional regulation that I think happens there and a way that I can be with myself in a place of uncertainty, but inspired and driven by curiosity to know more or to understand something it. I have said this thing to my clients that I work with. I think our creativity really, at the end of the day, lives in the quality of our attention. And so having it, having a robust and abundant relationship to some kind of creative practice. I think it just helps us sort of be in the world better because we’re honing in our quality of our attention, and we’re getting better at being curious and noticing, oh my gosh, just just slowing down to notice things in this, you know, busy, hectic world where I think our current attention span is like 3.2 seconds or something, you know, devastating. Joe Sanok 00:24:38 Yeah. I love that idea of attention and creativity being connected or aligned. as many people who listen to this show know, I do improv every week. In fact, tonight I’m going to improv. And, you know, when you’re in a scene, kind of the best improvisers come in with maybe a morsel of an idea that they’re willing to throw out and they’re paying attention to how their character would act, how how they would respond. the theater that I did most of my intensives at in Chicago, Annoyance Theater, is really key and Peele went and Stephen Colbert and a number of other people, but their whole philosophy is not just the yes, and that you often hear for improv, but you come in with a perspective and that you don’t let that perspective just disappear, but that the beauty of a scene is these two different perspectives coming together. And I remember this one scene when I was at the intensive, last year where I came in and I just decided, no matter what we’re given, I’m going to have just the mindset of I’m new to town and everything is rosy. Joe Sanok 00:25:44 And the lady I was in a scene with, she came in with that. She’s just going to be really cynical. And we didn’t know this. Like we just go into the scene. And so someone said, give us the location of being on the L, or like the subway of Chicago. And so I’m just like starry eyed, new to town. And she’s this, like, guitar player, like busking on there that has no money and is cynical. And as you heighten the scene, it’s like, I’m just like, you know, I have an extra cup of coffee, would you like one? And she’s like, no, like screw off. And then I’m like. And then I’m just like, hey, she’s not making much money. I think you guys let’s everybody give a little bit more money. And then I’m like, is there anything else you need? And she’s like, I mean, I need a computer. And so I like start asking everybody for a computer, like, what about housing? And just like amping it up higher and higher where I’m just like so starry eyed. Joe Sanok 00:26:33 But that idea of you have to show up and pay attention. And also the things of life outside of improv you bring in. And I know that in writing and in improv, that the details are what brings something to life. If you say, I’m driving in a car. That doesn’t tell you much. But if you say, I’m driving in a Prius my parents gave me and the battery won’t recharge as fast as it really should because it’s an old Prius and I’m worried about it. Like that sets up a much different scene for some writing than if you just say, I’m in a car. And so I love that you start with that. When you think about paying attention, not even just for the sake of your writing, because I think that usually it’s like, oh, I’ve been paying attention. And then now I can use that in my writing. But that’s not the main reason most people will pay attention. But like, what do you do to keep that top of mind in a stressful world that could have tons of worry? Sarah Cook 00:27:28 Yeah. Sarah Cook 00:27:29 I mean, I think I think really tangibly, it’s taking lots and lots of breaks, like, like folding it. I’m I’m not a very efficient person. I’m a thorough person, but I’m not a very efficient person. I think my neuro divergence plays a role in that. But I think, you know, there’s something about this demand that we all be efficiently using our time well, and the the feeling of pressure that we have to be doing that and have to be, you know, scheduling our day with things back to back and not taking any breaks. Like, I don’t know how I don’t know how we would remember to remember to pay attention when we’re moving so quickly. I think a lot of this sort of unglamorous has to do with slowing down with, I mean, one practice that I do for myself and I, I’m especially in need of this as a neurodivergent person. Like, I try my best and this isn’t always possible, but I try to schedule things with buffers between meetings and job tasks and obligations that I have, and to just have a moment to stop and just like, notice my body. Sarah Cook 00:28:43 Remember that I’m in a body, like, do some breathing, touch some things I, you know, touch some textures and stim for a little bit, like slowing down and remembering. I think it takes a certain amount of time. And I think, you know, there’s obviously some, some privilege here. You have to be like fortunate enough to be able to afford to slow down. I acknowledge that, but I there’s something yeah, there’s something about the sort of just patience and yeah, like I keep wanting to use this word unglamorous work of just slowing down and being quiet. Joe Sanok 00:29:21 Yeah. You know when we did slow down school where, you know, people came in and we hiked and relaxed for a few days and then worked on the creativity of our businesses. It’s amazing how much faster things go when you slow down and you clear your mind. And it’s not. The point of slowing down isn’t just to be better at business. It’s like in and of itself, it’s like worth something. the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? Sarah Cook 00:29:52 Yeah. Sarah Cook 00:29:53 I think, you know, I want to loop back to that word, curiosity that I said in response to your first question and this gift as a recipient of of therapy, this gift that my therapist gave me of being just so wildly curious about me, I think to be curious about another person in the way that I’m talking about. There really is this quality of enthusiasm that comes along with it, right? Like, I want to know more about what you’re experiencing. I’m reading this story that you’re working on, and gosh, I really love what you say here. Tell me more like I want to know more about this. I think there’s something, there’s a way that that word and that quality of curiosity in my mind kind of links a therapeutic practice and a healing practice with a creative one, right? Curiosity sort of serves both of those things. And so I think I just would say, like, don’t underestimate the super power and the real gift of being really curious about whoever you’re serving, whoever you’re working with. Joe Sanok 00:31:01 I love that. Now if people want to connect with you, if they want to follow your work, I know you have a free gift for people. Why don’t you tell us about that and tell us where they can find you. Sarah Cook 00:31:09 Yeah. You can find me at my website Sarah Theresa Cook. Com. Sarah does have an H in it. Theresa does not. I also publish a Substack newsletter called For the Birds. I’ve been publishing it for about two and a half years now. I write all about the intersection of creativity and neuro divergence, building resilience. I include a lot of really great, thoughtful writing prompts. The idea is that it’s a space where I’m both tending my own artistic practice, but offering things for other people to tend theirs as well. Part of what I do for my paid readers is once a month I host something called the Resiliency Circle, sort of like a like, no, I don’t want to call it a workshop, but like a casual gathering where I bring some writing prompts, some topics I guide us through, some thinking, writing and reflecting. Sarah Cook 00:31:57 And it’s really a space once a month for people to, tend a robust and holistic relationship to their creativity. So, what I’m offering for listeners of your podcast is there’s a link for to get a two month free paid subscription, a free version of my paid subscription to that. So I hope listeners will take advantage of that and join me at my next couple of resiliency circles and check out the newsletter. And, yeah, see if it’s something that that, suits them. Joe Sanok 00:32:32 Awesome. And we’ll put a link to that in the show notes as well. Sarah, thank you so much for being on the practice of the Practice podcast. Sarah Cook 00:32:39 Thanks for having me. This was lovely. Joe Sanok 00:32:49 So if you’re looking to be around more people that are inspiring, that can help you with scaling your private practice. If you want to learn some clinical skills or just watch a panel of people talk about solo practice, group practice, transitioning from solo to group. We are doing our level up week again September 16th through 19th, 2024. Joe Sanok 00:33:11 You can register over a practice of the practice. Com for level Up, we have over 16 live webinars that are happening that week. So no matter your phase of practice you are going to want to hang out with us. We have tons of prizes that we’ll be doing as well. Every single time that we do this with so many people just like this is incredible. I can’t believe you do this completely for free. It’s just a week, Monday through Thursday of Full Tilt, working on your business, brainstorming, and having people come in that can just help you get direction. So again, make sure that you register for that over at practice of the practice.com/level up. And if you need a new EHR, there are so many EHRs out there that have been bought by big companies and they’re just tanking. our friends at Therapy Notes know that that transition can be really hard to go from whatever EHR you’re using that is not therapy notes. we hear about the bad ones quite a bit, and we don’t name them publicly. Joe Sanok 00:34:07 But, therapy notes will help you transition all of your client data over following HIPAA guidelines. They have tele therapy embedded within their system. They make it easy for billers. Our friends that are billers say that it’s so easy for the biller and for the consulting client or the, for the counselor to be able to see what’s going on financially. So therapy notes is the best EHR out there. Make sure you go try therapy notes over at Therapy notes.com. Use promo code Joe to get a couple months for free. And thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. We’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band silence sexy for that intro music. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter cover. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.