[WHITNEY]:
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Welcome to the Faith in Practice podcast. I’m your host, Whitney Owens, recording live from Savannah, Georgia. I’m a licensed professional counselor, group practice owner and private practice consultant. In each week, through a personal story or amazing interviews, I will help you learn how to start, grow, and scale your private practice from a faith-based perspective. I’m going to show you how to have an awesome faith-based practice without being cheesy or fake. You too can have a successful practice, make lots of money, and be true to yourself.

On today’s episode of Faith in Practice podcast I have Scott Waters, and he’s going to talk to us about his private practice but also how to grow and hire during COVID-19. What an interesting topic and it’s really a difficult thing, but Scott has been able to do this and make it a lot easier than maybe what it seems. And so, you’re going to hear from him talking about that. So, Scott has been working in the mental health field for over 10 years and has a special emphasis on spiritual growth and development. He has niched down from general counseling to specifically doing Christian couples counseling. He has a podcast called Resilient Relationship podcast and his co-host is Jill Smith. The podcast focuses on how to grow into resilient people who create a resilient relationship. His private practice is called Veritas Community Counseling located in Eugene, Oregon. Scott, thanks for coming on the podcast.

[SCOTT]:
My pleasure. I’m excited to be here.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah. Yeah, we were just talking before recording about the time change, you know, the East Coast. So, Scott just woke up and got going and able to do the podcast with us. So, I’m sure it’s a challenge being on a different time zone.

[SCOTT]:
You know, cold brewed coffee goes a long way.

[WHITNEY]:
Oh, love it. Love it. I remember you had a recipe for that on Facebook. And I was like, ah, that looks wonderful.

[SCOTT]:
It’s delightful.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah, so people would love to hear about your private practice. And if you could share how you started that and specifically share kind of about the Christian perspective that you offer in that.

[SCOTT]:
Yeah, it started when I was in grad school. And what happened was, I needed to get my own therapy as part of my requirement for grad school and so I ended up getting some… it was actually help with sexual addiction. And as part of that story, it was a faith-based… so, Christian counseling for sexual addiction, and I started actually doing that work myself while in grad school. So, it was pastoral counseling, more like coaching, towards really growing your faith, being intentional with the person you’re trying to be, reflecting God’s image a lot more clearly, while getting my master’s degree. So, it was a pretty interesting experience, getting more practice than most of my peers, and then also doing internship all the clinical stuff with it. So, yeah, it was a pretty helpful start to my career. And as soon as I graduated, I launched my first private practice and continued working for the nonprofit doing pastoral care, focusing on spiritual growth and Christian maturity alongside mental health counseling,

[WHITNEY]:
Did you ever find it a challenge, in the front end, kind of thinking through how much you want to make faith a part of your practice growth? And how do you like create a name and a brand that represents that? Did you find that challenging? Or did that come pretty naturally?

[SCOTT]:
It was a big challenge, because, in school, we learn we have to have really strong boundaries; essentially we learn what rules we have to follow, to have success as a therapist, and, don’t [unclear] with the client and you can’t force religion on your client, right? Like those are the big things that stick out to me. And so that was a struggle because people were coming because I was spiritually focused. They came because I was really driving them towards having a faith that transformed their life. And it kind of contradicted what the school was telling me in terms of like, you can’t speak openly about your faith, you have to really dive into this clinical work and understand the context of it. But it kind of started me out with a scarcity mindset in regard to speaking openly about faith and spirituality and maturity.

[WHITNEY]:
Mm hmm. Yeah, you’re bringing up a point I think so many of us struggle with, especially at the beginning phases. And, you know, the way I think about it’s like, clients are out there wanting a faith-based perspective, right? That’s why they came to you. And so why would we not make that clear? It’s like people make it clear that they offer addiction counseling or that they work with couples. So why wouldn’t we make it clear that we can offer a faith perspective if the client is wanting that. And so, I love that you’re like, alright, I’m gonna do what I feel like is the right thing to do. I’m gonna let people know that this is something that I offer, and it sounds like that’s what draws people to your practice, right?

[SCOTT]:
Absolutely. And it wasn’t necessarily overt in my marketing or branding up until about a year ago, where I was very explicit that I offer faith-based counseling. Because, again, it was still feeling out the market and saying, well, what is acceptable? What are people gonna respond to? And really, I noticed, people are craving that; people are craving this aspect of spiritual counseling, having that aspect of their life addressed in a very intentional, focused way.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah, I love that you use that word craving; it is like that. It’s like their soul is desiring it honestly; regardless if they say it or not, they’re looking for it. So, I want to hear how your practice changed when you became overtly Christian in your marketing, what kind of things changed?

[SCOTT]:
I think what changed, it gave me a confidence in terms of how overt I was, when I would talk about spirituality or my Christian faith and how that influences what I know to be true clinically. It was like it gave me a license to be very overt and out… just upfront with my true belief that, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy is grounded in the Bible. And it’s like it’s so established in our faith. And so, it was just, it kind of gave me permission. I give myself permission to be very overt about that. And even, you know, non-Christians that have come to me have been like, thankful that that’s my background, that that’s my worldview.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah, how did it… I get this question actually a lot. How did it go for your client load? Like, did you have more calls coming in once you changed to being overtly Christian, or did you have less calls coming in but more specific conversions or what was that like?

[SCOTT]:
I would say that process was more of just my referral sources. So the way I was able to market myself to specifically pastors in my area and start offering them value that reflected their beliefs, their backgrounds, they… you know, people only work with people that they know, like, and trust, and so the more I was able to communicate clearly, my perspective on how faith and psychotherapy are very, you know, they work well together, they work in tandem, because one simply reflects what the other has been saying for a long time. And so, the pastors specifically that I was getting referrals from and connected to, were able to see that and say like, Scott does good work. He really talks through the concept of what we aspire to preach on Sunday morning, and it’s helpful, it creates a sense of peace and really that aspirational identity I think we’re all called to, which is reflecting His image more clearly. And so, it did increase my client load indirectly, by having a stronger confidence in integrating faith overtly in my practice, and I think also marketing. And eventually, as we’re going to talk about, hiring somebody to be on board with that same vision.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah, that’s actually what I was just sitting here thinking while you were talking; you had such a clear vision about your faith, and also your practice and counseling. And I love the way you’re talking about that. So, how did you go about hiring somebody? I think a lot of people are really scared of hiring because they think the person won’t understand their practice or love it the way they do, or they think they’re going to hire someone and their practice is, all of a sudden, gonna make this terrible turn, [unclear] make a bad hire. So, could you talk about that hiring process?

[SCOTT]:
Yeah, it was kind of scary. I didn’t… you know, it was my first hire. I’ve never hired anyone before. And so, this… taking that step of faith personally, like, you know, I was full in my practice. And I’ve heard you, I’ve heard Alison Pidgeon, and Joe Sanok, talk about how you don’t have to wait till you’re full to start hiring; you could actually start hiring when you’re half time, when you have quite a lot of time in your schedule that you’re not counseling. And so being full in my schedule, I was like, oh, I need to cut back a little bit on my hours and any new clients I have to give to somebody else. As a business growth indicator, I have to offload this work, because I am getting referrals that maybe aren’t necessarily a good fit for me in terms of, it’s not specifically focused on couples work, or maybe it’s more trauma centered. And like, that’s not my sweet spot. That’s not my niche. And so, I need to be able to pass that off and I need someone who’s capable of dealing with that, and why not hire right now? It’s kind of scary, but I need to step forward and do that, knowing that God’s good and he’s been providing my client load so far. Why would that change?

[WHITNEY]:
Preach. Love it. Okay, and so you started a group practice during this crisis. I mean, when did you hire your first hire?

[SCOTT]:
It was in the middle of April.

[WHITNEY]:
Right. I mean, some people would have said, that’s crazy talk. Right? So, can you talk about why that was such a great thing for your practice? And is he already, your new hire, is he already seeing clients?

[SCOTT]:
He is seeing clients, which is pretty amazing. It’s pretty awesome. I think making that shift in the middle of COVID-19, or as it was even just beginning, just felt like the right thing to do. It was the next right step. You know, you can’t wait for fear to dictate your actions. Very rarely does anything good happen out of acting out of fear. And so, I tell my clients that all the time. And so as a business owner and practice owner wanting to grow into this group practice, to facilitate this vision I have of being a Christian counseling center in my area, I said I have to start; I have to do it now. There’s no reason to wait. I can’t act out of fear expecting something good to happen. I have to act out of an abundance mindset, where I trust that God is good, and he’s going to provide and that he’s going to bring the right person that will fall in line with my vision, that I don’t have to be scared about, you know, speaking truth in love, and that it’s directly lined up with sound psychology.

[WHITNEY]:
How did you find that person?

[SCOTT]:
It was actually word of mouth. I posted on Indeed, and I got… not a ton. I got about 10 applications that were just not right. It seemed pretty clear a lot of them didn’t line up with the values of what I was shooting for, what the vision of my practice is. And so, I also at that same time, spread the word out to several of the pastor’s and referral sources. I said hey, I’m looking to hire somebody. Within a day of sending that out, like later that morning, one of the people got back to me and said, hey, I just met this person, and they’re looking to get started in a Christian counseling agency. And I was like, oh, thank you, God, you’re good.

[WHITNEY]:
So, you’re like, praise God. It’s like, that kind of stuff, you just have to laugh, or I just laugh because I’m like, God just does this crazy stuff. And I’m like, wow, this is so cool. I just have to share this crazy story, which I feel like I could share about all my employees, but one of them that I hired back in August, she has been fantastic. And I hired her right out of grad school too; I actually love hiring newbies because I can really train them. But anyway, so one day, I probably have shared this on the podcast, but anyway, I’m sharing it again. I was talking to my assistant and I was like, seems like maybe we need to hire someone else. The calls are increasing. At this point, we had four counselors. And she was like, yeah, and I said, but you know, I really, really hate hiring. I hate all the interviews. It’s just so time consuming. Wouldn’t it be really great if God just handed us somebody? She was like, okay, so anyway, that day, she goes over to Sam’s with all of her kids trying to get all this stuff and this lady that she knew from a Bible study years back comes up to her and oh, you know, so good to see you. And they small talk, and she says, what are you doing for work? And my assistant says, oh, I’m working at a private practice. And she goes, oh my, my daughter is about to graduate with a social work degree and move back to Savannah and she’s looking for a job. Okay, so my assistant calls me as soon as she leaves Sam’s and, oh, you’re not gonna believe this. Then we get the resume and you’re not gonna believe this. This girl was my child’s preschool teacher like three years prior.

[SCOTT]:
Oh my gosh.

[WHITNEY]:
So, I knew her from working at a Christian pre-school. I was like, oh my gosh, I’m hiring her. So, I did. And she’s been amazing. She actually is a counselor, but she’s also doing part time admin, as well. So yeah, I mean, God just has this way of like working things out in a crazy way when we choose to trust him and grow our business.

[SCOTT]:
That was such a beautiful story, Whitney.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah, I’m laughing because I still am blown away that that ever happened. Yeah. Okay. And so, back in the fall when you were thinking about starting your practice, and we did a free consulting call for the mastermind group, can you kind of share where you were at in your mindset, thinking about joining the mastermind? Cos I know for a lot of people, that is a huge step, and it’s scary. Like, I was so scared when I joined a mastermind; I never thought I’d have the outcome of what ended up happening. But can you share what that mindset was like, and then kind of how the mastermind was helpful for you and your first hire during this crisis?

[SCOTT]:
I think it was, again, I think when we go from… any kind of growth or change is a process of moving through scarcity. It takes requiring stretching of muscles, being scared, doing things that we have no clue how to do. And my whole life I’ve sought out mentors to help guide and direct my life and so I knew over the course of the last year, I just wanted to grow my business. The Next Level Practice has been helpful, but it wasn’t that direct kind of mentorship or accountability I needed to grow into a group practice. And so, when I heard you come on as a Faith in Practice, I was like, oh, that’s interesting. Like, that’s awesome. And then you started a mastermind and that got promoted, and I was like, oh, that seems like it would be a really good fit. And then, you know, we got the call and I was thinking about the financial situation of it, and thankfully, having done profit first and having some money set aside, I was, like, ah that’s a big investment. But my mindset was that it was an investment. It wasn’t like a, oh, can I afford that? Is it gonna be…? It was a little scary. But I knew I had to invest in myself to get to the next level. And I knew that the price tag couldn’t scare me because I have to grow, like, I have to grow. It’s imperative, for not just my personal development, but because the community needs it. Right? My community needs solid Christian counselors. And I want to be the center that can provide that and so, when thinking about joining a mastermind, it was really, I have to do this. Like, I just need to find the right fit. And it turned out that, you know, as all good things do, God provided it in the right time. And your mastermind was the right step for me.

[WHITNEY]:
Well, thank you. You did awesome in the group and in challenging yourself and growing. Oh, and I just love what you’re speaking here about, I have to do this. And people in my community need to find me. They need solid Christian counseling, and that’s what I love about the consulting is helping people be found.

[SCOTT]:
Yes.

[WHITNEY]:
Like, I have a dear friend who said to me, gosh, I can’t find a therapist who has a faith-based perspective and knows about addiction, because she was looking for someone to get some support because a family member had an addiction. [unclear] broke my heart. I’m like, I’m sure there’s some good faith-based counselors in your area, they’re just not knowing how to market or they’re not knowing how to get themselves out there, whatever the case may be. And so being able to help you be found is exciting for me. And so, yeah, and you’ve made those steps, obviously in doing that, and now you’ve brought on another hire. And so now more people in your area are getting help.

[SCOTT]:
Absolutely. You have to have a vision bigger than yourself, bigger than your fears, to move forward. You know, you can’t let your fear limit your potential. I think God has a big plan for all of us. And if we don’t step out in faith, if we don’t take that next step while scared, knowing he’s good and sovereign, we are not going to live into the potential of who God calls us to be. As practice owners, we have a… Okay, I’m gonna timeout; I got to share a story with you.

[WHITNEY]:
Yes.

[SCOTT]:
In my experience doing pastoral care, I’d been on with them for about five years. It took me six years to get through grad school, by the way, just doing life working three jobs and you know, having babies buying houses, etc. Living life. About the five-year mark, we kind of did a review of just my time at the, at the nonprofit I was working with doing pastoral care, and they gave me a card. And the director of it said, Scott, there’s been a mantle placed on your shoulders, I had a vision about you. At the time, I was kind of like, oh, okay, what does that mean? And then, not even a week later, one of my clients… so we’re seeing distance clients all over the world, actually, about sexual addiction and couples work at this time. And she said, Scott, I had a vision about you this last weekend and you have a mantle placed on your shoulders.

[WHITNEY]:
Oh boy.

[SCOTT]:
I was like, woah, what just happened? What’s going on? And so, it really started to click with me, God has big things in store for me. God wants so much more than I can see for myself. And it was just a huge affirmation to God’s call on my life to be more than what fear has in store for me. Right? And so, I think that’s been a driving piece in the back of my head like, I have a mantle on my shoulders, and I have to live into that. It’s driven me forward having this vision of being a strong leader, whether it’s in my community or wherever I go, I find myself in leadership, maybe that’s just my number two, not being able to say no in life, my [unclear]. Or it’s simply that God has prepared me and is giving me opportunities to be a good steward of what he’s given me.

[WHITNEY]:
You’re a leader. I mean, I know you now and I see it. I can see God developing that, well, he already has in a lot of ways, but we’re always changing and growing. And I love that story and the importance of when God speaks like that through people or through that inner voice or scripture points out to us about our ourselves, but even – because this podcast is for practices – about our businesses, we have to take hold of that and remember it. Because you know what? Things suck sometimes in private practice; it’s not always going to go the way we think or what we want. And then we have to go back to that, wait, no, no, this is what was spoken to me. And I’m going to hold this tight.

When I was thinking about consulting, doing faith-based consulting, like, I was running away from God as much as possible, like God kept telling me, okay, I want you to do faith-based consulting. I was like, no, there’s all these consultants already, what do I have to offer? That’s a lot of work. You know, I had every excuse in the book. But I was still praying about it. And then one of my employees, one of my clinicians, had no clue. I wasn’t really sharing this with anybody because I didn’t want to be accountable to em. And she came up to me and she just… She’s like, she’s got the gift, I mean, she has dreams about the practice, it’s crazy. And she said to me, Whitney, God’s got something a lot bigger than this practice for you to be doing and you need to pay attention to it. That was like, oh my, she doesn’t even know that I’m praying about this. Yeah. And I go back to that when I get discouraged about the work I’m doing, or things don’t go the way I think they need to go. Yeah. And the same for you, Scott, you just have such a calling in your community, and you’re doing so much good work. And I love that you’re talking about the importance of like, you can’t just sit idly by and wait on it to happen. You’ve got to take the time and do the work so that God can use it in your life. And for other people.

[SCOTT]:
Absolutely.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, why don’t you share a little bit about your podcast and how you use that, and who’s that for? Because I think counselors might be interested in listening to it.

[SCOTT]:
Sure. The podcast is really for anybody who wants to grow in a sense of resiliency, personally, or in their relationship. So, right? All of us, let’s raise our hand.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah.

[SCOTT]:
We all have those tips and turns of getting upset, or not connecting via communication in our relationship and the main… it really stems out of my counseling work as a couples therapist that we have to take personal accountability and authority in our own life to create healthy relationships. And so, my co-host and I, Jill, we talk through six values, right, and they called relationship values. And so, it’s an acronym for vulnerability, accountability, learning, which is a sense of curiosity, understanding, empathy, and shared meaning. And so, it’s a basic framework that you can use as a filter for if something is, or is not, working in your relationship or even in your self-discovery. Because you have to have applied first these things to yourself before you can apply them to a relationship.

You know, so much of the Christian faith is about reflecting God’s image clearly and it takes empathy, understanding, a sense of curiosity, definitely, and accountability in terms of, are we being in integrity? And it takes vulnerability. And in the process of that we create shared meaning. And so we talk through all different aspects, Jill and I, about what it means to be resilient, how you can show up, how you can choose who to be in a relationship, and not just for the other person but for yourself so that you can truly reflect God’s image clearly to each other. It’s a high calling in terms of what I would consider a covenant relationship.

And so, we talk through all of those things, different aspects every week. We use a lot of the Gottman’s research because they’re the leading researchers on couples and relationships. And it’s just been super helpful, even just personally, to process this stuff and talk through it. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been sitting there talking with Jill about something and it’s like, oh, yeah, I need to do this too.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah, that’s the joy of having a podcast is you get to talk about these things. And I feel the same way, I walk away from my podcast, like, oh, like this one, I’m gonna walk away really encouraged. remembering my calling and everything, and other ones I’ll walk away like, oh, this is this great idea. And so, yeah, the hosts of the podcast honestly benefit the most from the podcast.

[SCOTT]:
Yeah, I would say so. And it’s just a joy to use it also as a source for therapy. I could say, hey, listen to this 15/20 minute or three-part series on this topic that Jill and I talk about and go have a conversation with your spouse about it. Listen together and just have a discussion. And so, it’s been really helpful that way. It’s also just a… it kind of adds meat to the practice in terms of, I have substance to offer, right? It’s something outside of myself that is like, hey, here’s some more value. Here’s something to grow. Here’s something to spur on being a better version of you.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah, that’s so great.

[SCOTT]:
Yeah, it’s fun. It’s a good time. It’s been a learning curve, also, getting into podcasting, and all that joy, that is editing and whatnot. But it’s been truly satisfying.

[WHITNEY]:
Yeah. Awesome. And so, we will have, in the show notes, links to the podcast, but it’s the Resilient Relationships. And then we also will have Scott’s website and his social media. If you want to be in touch with him, feel free to reach out through that. And then Scott, we ask everyone who comes on the podcast, what do you think that every Christian counselor needs to know?

[SCOTT]:
The one thing I would say is that you don’t have to be afraid of who you are, in terms of counseling. You don’t have to hold your faith, your perspective on life, your Christian worldview with scarcity. You can actually lean into health, strength, wellbeing and a sense of confidence that what you have to offer, because of that perspective, because of God’s work in your life, is not just valuable to therapy, but it’s imperative. People are craving meaning. And we can help people walk around issues or through things with good psychological tools, but if they don’t understand the why, because of your sound worldview, they’re missing out. And you could paint a very clear picture of what health is like because of your Christian or biblical worldview. So, I’d encourage you to take some time to reflect on how you can live into that more clearly. And be bold in offering that to the community you serve because people need it.

[WHITNEY]:
Mm hmm. Yeah, so often where I hear [unclear] by myself, afraid of making faith a real big part of what I do. And what I hear you saying is the importance of it’s kind of the strength of what we do, and what we offer people.

[SCOTT]:
Absolutely.

[WHITNEY]:
So, I thank you for sharing that and empowering us today in that. So y’all kind of heard Scott talk a little bit about the mastermind group. So, he was a part of our mastermind group this past winter and into the spring as this crisis has broken out and been what it is. So, for those of you that don’t know what a mastermind group is, it is a group of like-minded clinicians, going towards something in their practices and their practice growth. The Faith in Practice mastermind specifically also offers that faith component because that’s such an important part of us building our businesses that maybe other people don’t have. Or it’s a different way that we think about building our practices as we step out in faith and we listen to God, and we pray for one another.

So, we’re going to be launching another Faith in Practice mastermind in June. And that’s going to be for practice owners who are kind of wanting to take it to the next level, not necessarily for people that are in the starting phases of their practice, but people who maybe have their first couple of hires, or they’re looking to really expand their client load; we’re going to work on creating systems and marketing and money management, and be able to give you opportunities, kind of share some of your struggles in your practice with the group and we can all grow together through that. So that is going to start on June 9, and it’s going to be every other Thursday at 12:30 Eastern, and it’s gonna run for six months and the cost of that will be $300 per month. We would love for you to consider that. If you feel like you’re at that place in your practice or kind of what Scott was saying, you feel like you need to make that investment in yourself and in your practice, please send me an email, it’s [email protected]. We’d love to talk about that with you. We do a pre-consulting call at no charge to just make sure that this is a good fit for you. Because we don’t want people doing a mastermind that’s just not their fit, you know. They might be in a different place in their practice growth. And even if the mastermind is not the best fit for you, I’m gonna make sure that you get to something that does work for you. So please send me an email or we’ll have the Calendly link in the show notes. And that’s just a link that you can click on and schedule a 30-minute pre-consulting call. I’ll be taking applications for that through June 4.

So, Scott, thanks so much for taking the time and just for being so open and real about your faith and helping us all grow today.

[SCOTT]:
You’re very welcome. It’s been a privilege to be here and I would just add to anybody listening who’s considering a mastermind, do it. Make yourself get to that next level; take that step, even if you’re scared because the world needs what you have to offer.

[WHITNEY]:
Yes, they do. They sure do. Well thank you so much.

[SCOTT]:
It’s been a pleasure.

[WHITNEY]:
Thank you for listening to the Faith in Practice podcast. If you love this podcast, please rate and review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player. If you liked this episode and want to know more, check out the Practice of the Practice website. Also, there you can learn more about me, options for working together such as individual and group consulting, or just shoot me an e-mail [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the Practice of the Practice, or the guests, are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.