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Joe Sanok 00:00:00  You're someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You're also someone who'd prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else's story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Com forward slash. Apply. Again that's practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply.

Joe Sanok 00:00:53  This is the practice of.

Joe Sanok 00:00:54  The practice podcast with Joe Santos. Session number 1223. I'm Joe and I'm your host. And welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast. This is the first of three podcast takeovers that Tom O'Malley is going to be doing from session sites, and I'm so excited to have him do these podcast takeovers.

Joe Sanok 00:01:18  we're first going to be talking about words that work. He's going to be talking about the story brand framework in therapy marketing, which, you know, story brand. I followed that for a really long time. It's such a great way to think about your website. You know, as we dig into this, you've heard me recommend different website designers over the years, and that was even something that practice the practice did for a while. But honestly, session sites, I am just shocked. We've probably sent 20 plus people their way. They often have your website up within a week or two. it's really an amazing just service that they offer. They aren't sponsors. They're people that we've just created this partnership with. So head on over to session sites again, that session sites. Dot com. You can read more about their website design services. They'll help you transition from kind of the ugly old website that maybe you have from before or starting from scratch. So without any further ado, here is Tom from Session sites.

Tom O'Malley 00:02:11  Thanks for the kind words, Joe, and thank you again for this incredible and mildly terrifying opportunity to be a custodian of your wonderful podcast for the next few episodes. I'm calling this series Therapy Marketing Summer camp, and we'll be diving into proven, actionable ways to increase your private practices impact online. Today we have Jennifer Arakawa, founder and CEO of Salt Marketing and Certified Story Brand Coach. She's helped hundreds of clients in the health and wellness space, say the right words to the right people across all of their marketing channels. Hi, Jennifer, thanks for joining us.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:02:50  Thanks for inviting me. I appreciate that.

Tom O'Malley 00:02:51  Oh of course. So we're actually kind of neighbors here in the Charleston area, aren't we?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:02:57  Yeah. I love that you're just up the road from me. And you said you moved eight years ago from New York. I moved eight years ago from Hawaii. So we've been here the same amount of time, so that's pretty interesting.

Tom O'Malley 00:03:06  Who moves away from Hawaii?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:03:08  somebody with a child who's starting high school and needs a better school for their kid.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:03:12  So. Okay.

Tom O'Malley 00:03:13  All right. Yep. So. Yeah. so tell us, how did you get into wellness marketing?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:03:20  So I have been in marketing for almost three decades. digital marketing. I owned my own company. and as an entrepreneur, you know, you you learn as much as you can to try and grow exactly what you're doing. and so just immersed myself in that world. we sold that company in 21 and a large management consultancy bought that. So I stayed on with them for a little while. And then that entrepreneurial bug kicked in. anybody who's in business for themselves knows how that is. and so about two and a half years ago, I kind of pulled a Jerry Maguire and took my team with me and said, you know, let's, let's go do something different. And we actually chose the wellness space intentionally. We love our clients. We love how. Positive, forward thinking. You know, adventurous. Really everyone in the wellness space is. And so that's how we got into that.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:04:06  I had been familiar with Story Brand for a number of years, and decided to become certified when we went out on our own.

Tom O'Malley 00:04:11  Amazing. And I think there's more than one parallel between private practice ownership and entrepreneurship in general. I've seen, even in my own business and my own web design studio, the riches really are in the niches, and I'm sure you've had a similar experience once you niche down into wellness.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:04:32  Absolutely.

Tom O'Malley 00:04:33  Yeah. And I try to encourage my clients to do the same. You know some of them are a little hesitant. They don't want to, they don't want to leave anyone out in the cold necessarily. But really you know, paring down and and selecting your ideal avatars is really the way to go.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:04:49  Absolutely. And it allows you to differentiate yourself in a way that really nothing else can. I mean, if you're trying to be all things to all people, you're nothing to nobody. So being able to reach down and say, this is who I am and this is why I stand out.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:04:59  It makes perfect sense.

Tom O'Malley 00:05:01  Well said. So let's dive into Story Brand a bit. For anyone not familiar, what is the story brand framework in a nutshell?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:05:10  So story brand, it's it's hard to say what it is in a nutshell, because it's sort of like a giant epiphany. So there's there's a book called Story Brand by a guy named Donald Miller. he was a screenwriter and a book writer, and he really latched on to a framework that he created. And there's seven parts to the story brand framework. So if we wanted to say, in a nutshell, it is the the character who the story is about, it is the, the struggle that that person is going through, the guide that that person meets to help them solve those problems. It is casting a vision for success by giving them a plan. So there's a three part plan in there of do this, do this, do this, and we can talk about that a little more. and then casting a vision for success or failure.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:05:49  we call that the stakes. So what's at stake here if you don't take action. And so the seven parts of the framework come together to really build your brand story. And then we use that in order to develop the copy the content for everything else. So whether you're writing emails, whether you're writing web copy, whether you're posting on social media, those elements of your brand story sort of fit right in there. And it's just like we were talking about a minute ago. It's about the differentiation. It's about saying exactly who you are and being able to articulate that clearly.

Tom O'Malley 00:06:19  Yeah. So it's really about resonating with people instead of hard selling yourself.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:06:24  Absolutely.

Tom O'Malley 00:06:25  Yeah I've heard a bit you know some people are all in on the story brand framework there, there are a couple outliers out there who don't necessarily think it's the way to go. I'm a firm believer personally. Is there anything about the original story brand structure that doesn't quite fit into therapy marketing?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:06:47  I don't believe so, because the when we talk about the the basic premise of Story Brand.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:06:52  It is all about your client, or your patient is the hero of their own story, and that fits perfectly within the wellness space. So you are their guide and you are going to help them get to where it is that they want to go. And so you cast that vision for where it is that they want to go, and then you come alongside them and say, this is how I can help you. So when we talk about Story Brand, we talk often about Star Wars. So Luke is our hero in the story, and Obi-Wan is his guide and he has a goal. He's got to, you know, defeat the Empire where Obi-Wan, he can't do it without his guide. And so as as a wellness practitioner, you're going to come alongside that person and help them get to their goals. They are the hero of their own story. If you start inserting yourself in as the hero, the rescuer, it interrupts their own thought patterns. So the story brand framework works perfectly in this space.

Tom O'Malley 00:07:40  Amazing. And I always appreciate a good Star Wars reference. So I'm sold.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:07:44  You can you can count on me for that.

Tom O'Malley 00:07:48  So I mean let's, let's let's dig into it here. I mean, pretty much every website has what's called the hero section, and that's the first thing you see on the homepage. And there's a big block of text on there, and there's usually a big photo or sometimes a video. About 99% of websites in the world have this exact structure when you first load their site. Give me an example of how we would utilize that space within the story brand framework.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:08:17  Well, and we call it the hero section, but it's not because you're the hero, you know, it's it's that's kind of a that's kind of a hurdle that we have to get over. And so, you know, we often talk about what is the journey that our hero is on. Where are they entering your website on that particular journey? How can we capture their attention based on what it is that they need and what they want to accomplish? So, some of the things that we, we want to make sure happens on a story brand website is in the first like five seconds, someone your website needs to pass the grunt test.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:08:47  Someone should be able to tell what it is that you do. what it's going to do for them. And how do they get it? And if they don't know those three things in a split second, they're gone. You've lost their attention. And so we talk about the practical applications of those things, making sure that there's a call to action, leading people to the next step and really supporting them in that that way as their guide.

Tom O'Malley 00:09:07  Yeah. And for what it's worth, I have the data to back that up. I across hundreds of websites that we host, I have the analytics to all of them. And I can tell you we have less than five seconds to really convince someone to stay on our site. That's kind of scary. But it's this this is our opportunity. That is our that is our window that they've given us. And we either take advantage of it or not.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:09:34  Yeah. And one thing I often tell people is, you know, when you are the hero, like if you're if your homepage is all we do this and we offer that, I call it Weeing all over your website.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:09:43  But if you are constantly talking about yourself, then you're interrupting the story that people are telling themselves so that five seconds is so important and don't wheel over your website.

Tom O'Malley 00:09:53  I love that. Some therapists I've worked with, they worry about simplifying their message will dumb it down. I mean, these people are highly qualified. They kind of want to show off a bit. When you start to to go the more narrative route that you're recommending. What do you what do you say to that concern?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:10:15  So there's a very specific structure that is recommended when you want to make your messaging more clear and more quick to understand. the truth is, is that people don't buy from the person who, you know, who does the best marketing, they buy from the person they can understand quickly. And so we're not necessarily dumbing it down. We're conveying that we understand their journey. We're expressing our empathy for the journey that they're on, and our authority as the person who is going to come alongside them and solve those problems.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:10:44  And so you're not necessarily you want to take? You want all that information later on your website. You're not necessarily removing that information, but you want to put it in your blog posts. You want to put it with a little more depth on the website. That home page needs to smack somebody in the face with. This is the solution you've been looking for?

Tom O'Malley 00:11:00  Yeah, it's it's all about leading with empathy and really creating that connection from the moment the site loads.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:11:09  Absolutely.

Tom O'Malley 00:11:10  So let's go down the home page a little bit further. Now what what are some key story brand elements that should show up on a therapist homepage?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:11:18  Yeah. Well, that that hero section that we talked about that again, it needs to pass that grunt test. So people need to be able to understand what you do right out of the gate, which can be difficult. You know, when we talk about mental health and conveying exactly what it is that you do, it feels different for everyone. So trying to hit that, you know, in those few seconds that can be very difficult.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:11:38  So right below that we put what we call the value stack. And it's it's basically starting to immediately cast that vision. It's three things that you are accomplishing for people you know. And I'm just I'm. Being overly simplistic on purpose, but, you know, feel better, you know, have more energy. You know, these sorts of things. And so we we put that into your value stack immediately under the home, the hero section below that we start talking about the stakes. And so here's what could happen. If you don't take action, you'll continue to feel the way you feel. It'll be six months from now and nothing will have changed like those those pieces are they really resonate with people? they don't want to stay stuck or they wouldn't even be on your website so that the stakes is the next section of that. we want to introduce you as the guide. You know, like we just talked about expressing empathy, expressing, you know, conveying the authority that you have. And that can be based on I understand your journey.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:12:27  That can be your brand story. it can also be any accolades in the industry, testimonials, things of that nature. and then we do what we call the plan. And the plan is a three step plan. It is intentionally oversimplified, simplified. So it's like come in for an appointment. Go to your appointment. You know, enjoy your appointment and then feel better. Like it's that's, you know, that's that's dumbing it down quite a bit. But those three steps are what makes sense to people. So the way I like to, to put it, the analogy I like to you is, is you're standing on one side of a rushing river and your patient is on the other side of that river, and you're saying, come on, I got you just, you know, just come across and they're like, nope, don't think so. If you point out three rocks in the stream, do this, do this, do this. They're like, oh, okay, I can step there, I can step there.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:13:12  And so you've given them those three rocks in the stream to get to the goal that they're trying to achieve. And so that's that's the plan part of of story brand. So there are other elements to to the the structure of it. But that's that's kind of the basic beginning of it.

Tom O'Malley 00:13:25  You mentioned under the three benefits section beneath the Hero, that we kind of lead with almost the fear of staying stuck. What would you say to any therapists listening who are a little trepidatious about, about leading with something like that.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:13:42  Yeah. So that that's what comes out of the story brand process. So as a story brand coach, I do a two plus hour intake interview and we talk about all of the things that you do differently, how you how you help people, you know, get to where they want to go. And so those things need to be very specific to what you have achieved and the places that you have taken your patients. So it's not meant to be. it's not it's it's sort of like, you know, the attorneys say on their website, you know, past results don't guarantee future, future results.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:14:14  but, but but it's very specific to what it is that you do. So we're not necessarily making promises or anything like that, but we're helping them see where they could go. So we're casting a vision as opposed to promising an outcome, if that makes sense.

Tom O'Malley 00:14:27  Now we're talking a lot about the homepage. Is is this framework just for home pages? Can it be applied to other pages on the site? Should it be on every page?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:14:36  Absolutely. So we talk about your about page. We always want and I'm sure you recommend the same things. But we always want your about page to be about the results that they will get. It is not about you. While your credentials can sit there as well, but we want that about page to help them understand this is what it's like to work with us. This is about what it's like to come to a session with us, and this is how we achieve these results. it can also, guide your, your blog and the information that you give.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:15:01  You know, we always want to put a lot of information, particularly, all the wellness practitioners I work with are so well educated and they know so much about what they do, and they've been practicing their craft for so long that they're they're leaning is to provide a lot of very detailed information. So that all belongs in the blog. We want to sell the transformation. We want to give the information. So the the the story brand framework can also guide your blog posts, your categories that you're going to address, based on your messaging and the articles and things that you want to write there, whether you're doing video content, whether you're doing a podcast, your story brand, brand story can guide all of those things.

Tom O'Malley 00:15:39  That's really interesting to me. I mean, there's I certainly have a handful of clients who understand the content marketing and SEO benefit of having a blog on their website, continuing that that hero's journey, so to speak, into your blog is is is news to me. So how in practice, how would someone really do that? Because right now I would say most of the content that that my clients post is really just trying to grab a few extra keywords.

Tom O'Malley 00:16:11  You know, you know, seasonal keywords, what to do with your kids this summer? keep them off the devices. Right? family visits around Thanksgiving. How do we cope? Etcetera. Things like that. But, yeah. So what would you recommend?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:16:25  So I actually love to combine Story Brand with another, philosophy that, that we very much subscribe to, which is a book by a guy named Marcus Sheridan called they Ask, you answer. And he actually discovered this. He was trying to market Get pools, believe it or not. But he was getting the same questions over and over again. And so he what he recommends is what questions do you get from your perspective? Patients again and again. What things do they ask? What are they concerned about? And he has a structure of five what he calls the big five. five different buckets that we put these things in. you know, how much does therapy cost? How much is it going to cost me to do this? what are some of the if I, if I do come in, if I, if I actually go forward with this, what problems might I encounter.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:17:07  What am I worried about? And so you can still grab all those good keywords like you're talking about, you know, the SEO side of it, but you're really dialed into that journey that that patient is going through and wherever they are in that, that, that continuum, you know, what things are they really concerned about? What questions are they asking? How can you answer those questions? So that's kind of how we marry the two.

Tom O'Malley 00:17:29  Amazing.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:17:30  It's fun.

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Tom O'Malley 00:18:41  So I got to ask. So if we're using the story brand framework on every page and carrying it into the blog, what about pages like our contact page? I mean, how could we possibly use Story Brand on there?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:18:56  So what's really interesting is, a number of the practitioners that I talk with and the doctors, they don't want to have a book now. Link. I don't know whether it feels sort of gauche. It's just they don't want to have a book now, you know, book a therapy session right now. and so they will send all the traffic actually to their contact page. And so the contact page needs to have a variety of things. One thing it needs to have is testimonials like get your Google testimonials and get them. Get them up there. if you don't collect testimonials, you know, in a public space just because of your patients, and then it's insensitive nature of what you do.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:19:26  get get a couple that that you can actually share with their permission, of course. Pop those onto your your contact page. also on the contact page, you may want to make sure that you have a variety of options like what are they contacting about because that encourages them to to book. So all of that can be baked into your brand story. when we write the brand story, we do talk about, the different ways that you can address the problems. So we talk about the internal problem, we talk about the external problem, and we talk about the philosophical problem. And so that can fit on your contact form. It can fit on your description ahead of the contact form to encourage people to book. I can talk a little bit more about those three types of problems. but you can definitely use that language to encourage people to go through with it. They may arrive at the contact page and bounce, and we don't want that. So, it definitely belongs in your contact page.

Tom O'Malley 00:20:17  That's super interesting because if you really think about it, the contact page is almost like your last chance.

Tom O'Malley 00:20:24  this I mean, there's obviously something preventing them from booking that that intro call or first session, whatever your call to action is, if that is too big of a leap for them. Your contact form is is really your last chance to get something from them. Get some form of communication opened up before they bounce, as you said. So yeah, I guess I never thought about it like that. The contact form should be more fleshed out than just than just slapping an email address on a blank page.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:20:54  Yeah, and not just that, but if somebody fills out the contact form, they could be awake. They could be in pain at 2:00 in the morning. That doesn't mean you need to be awake at 2:00 in the morning to answer them. You need to set up that automation. And in that automation is where we can also rely on our messaging to make sure that we are connecting with them, expressing that empathy, displaying that authority through an immediate follow up email, they've sent out the contact form.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:21:16  They're waiting for a response. But in the meantime, thank you. We've received your your inquiry. We'll be back to you as soon as possible. So setting up some automation is is a huge part of that contact as well.

Tom O'Malley 00:21:26  So now we're talking about carrying the framework from our website into Two email automations in the language we use there. Does this also apply to our social media posts and things like that?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:21:40  Absolutely. It can. And so one of the things that we do when we develop the messaging on our end is we we come up with a list of what I call magic words. And so the magic words are words that are sort of adjacent to your, your brand story, but it is like a list of words that is might describe the state that they're in now, whether they're, you know, suffering, whether, you know, whatever whatever their, their pain points are, you can build that into those magic words. Then we do a second list of magic words of inside the process.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:22:09  While you're going through this, this is what you'll experience. And then we do a third list of magic words, which is the outcomes. And so combining those words together is what can really put some fire behind your social media posts. Because you're staying on brand, you're staying in your message. You're differentiating yourself by using these words over and over. I have a quick funny story I'll tell you. I had a client, and this was I can't remember what the industry was manufacturing of some kind, but we did the list of magic words. He did not believe in social media at all. He did not want to post on social media, so we just gave him the list of those three. Those three lists of magic words. And he started like mixing and matching and taking inspiration from those. He was in the following quarter responsible for 19% of their lead generation just by using those magic words. So it really it really can be very highly effective.

Tom O'Malley 00:22:53  Amazing and kind of social media adjacent, especially in the mental health space.

Tom O'Malley 00:22:58  There's there's kind of one king of the hill and that is the Psychology Today therapist directory. and these directories might exist in one form or another throughout, you know, the wellness sphere. But, it's it's the ever important place to be. A lot of referrals come from there. A lot of discovery happens there on the client side. However, on the therapist side, we have so little opportunity to really express ourselves. We get this black and white text only right profile that we get to fill out. There's really no customization of the headers or anything like that. It as I said, it's just plain text. Do you think there's an opportunity? And I'm sure all the listeners ears are perking up right about now. Is there an opportunity to also translate the story brand framework into these scenarios as well?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:23:54  Yeah, absolutely. And this is what we were talking about earlier, where, you know, you have seconds to get somebody's attention. And I think if you lean into the story brand framework in the way of thinking there, as well as combine that with that, they ask you answer philosophy where you are actually answering the questions that people very often have because they're just scanning those profiles like, they're not they're not reading, at least initially.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:24:13  They're not, they're not going in depth. And so you want to hit on those points. If you can put your, your one, two, three step plan that will make them see that you know what you're talking about. That builds authority, that builds trust. And so being able to express in that particular way. Like you said, in a very black and white forum, you're able to differentiate yourself and make sure that that they are finding the right person for them.

Tom O'Malley 00:24:37  Yeah. And I'd say, by and large, using any element of the story brand framework is going to differentiate yourself in any sort of crowded space in mental wellness because so few have really started to adopt this, this philosophy from what I've seen anyway. We're still looking at people just kind of spewing their credentials and their qualifications, which is important. You know, I don't I don't want to go see an unqualified quack, but, but I think the the journey needs to begin, on a more personal connection for sure.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:25:13  Yeah.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:25:13  And I would say go, go check your profile and read it in the same way I say, don't we all over your website? How many times do you use the word AI in your profile? you know, it should be all about them, not about you.

Tom O'Malley 00:25:23  Yes. So. Well said. can you share an example of a therapist's or private practice you've worked with in the past who saw great results from applying the story brand?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:25:33  Yeah, I mean, I don't want to, like, call anybody out specifically. We've had we've had many success stories, particularly with therapists. There's a practice out in Palo Alto that we've worked with extensively. And we we did a full automation overhaul for them. but what they found was when we started using Story Brand in their emails, they started getting greater engagement, people actually responding to the things that they were saying. They were providing a ton of really great information just through their newsletters. But then they also had the automations behind. If somebody comes in through the contact form, new patient.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:26:05  Welcome using the language there. And what they found was that people were just more engaged. They were coming to their sessions ready to to work. because they had had all of this, this messaging already, you know, and they've got used to it. They started, you know, expecting the emails as they, as they worked through everything. And it was it was really remarkable the difference in, open rates, click through rates. And I know that these are all sort of like marketing things. But while that really boils down to is engagement and making sure that your, your patients are engaged and ready to, to, you know, confront the, the things that are at hand in that particular session and preparing them for that.

Tom O'Malley 00:26:44  Yeah. And I think that speaks to what we've found as well. There are quite a few therapists who will rely on a directory profile, for instance, to kind of generate their business and, their website, if they have one at all, is a mere afterthought.

Tom O'Malley 00:27:00  I'm kind of on the opposite end of that school of thought, where all roads lead to your website, and that's where you have the most control over essentially your vibe. And this is all whether it's your website, your Psychology Today profile, your social media, your automated emails, your newsletter, your blog, this is all part of people getting to know you. It's it's your vibe. And when people visit your website, it is very much a vibe check as much as it is literally just seeing what services you offer. It's it's about getting a sense of who you are. And I truly and firmly believe that Story brand is the best way to execute that online.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:27:43  Yeah, I would I would absolutely agree with that 100%. And you know, you're saying it's more than just like the services you offer. I would say the vibe is really that's the core of it. People people want to know that you are the right person for them before they want to know what you have to offer. because they're going to they're going to check out your sessions, whether you do group, whether you do, you know, individual or you do virtual.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:28:04  That's all going to be secondary. Like they want to know that they have found someone who can help them get to where they want to go. That's what your website can do for you.

Tom O'Malley 00:28:12  Where do you think, in your experience, therapists usually get stuck when trying to DIY their own messaging?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:28:19  I think it's really getting stuck in their own because there's This audience is so educated. They really they know their stuff. They've been well trained. But just because you know what your audience needs doesn't necessarily mean you know how to market to them. So I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of stuck in trying to be the hero and trying to show everyone that you are capable because of course you are. You know, you've been trained for this, but but more important is to make sure that they know you understand. They know that you that they can trust you, that this is the path that they need to go down. And so if you get caught up in your messaging where you're talking about yourself a lot or you're talking about your credentials, you're, you're you've kind of derailed their story that they're telling themselves, and you want to jump into that story so that they see you as their their ticket to the next step.

Tom O'Malley 00:29:07  I can foresee maybe a bit of hesitation, as I mentioned, you know, therapists especially, they're they're so careful about coming off as salesy or too polished in their marketing. And I totally get it. There's there's almost an authenticity that comes along with being bad at marketing. If if I'm being honest, do you think it's a good little baby step for people to just try a story brand in bits and pieces and kind of implement one piece at a time throughout their website?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:29:41  So not necessarily I think it's important to understand the, the, the framework as a whole. It's sort of like, you know, can can we address someone's, OCD by having, you know, 1 or 2 sessions? Not really. We need to understand the whole person. We need to understand what they're going through. And then we can get to to outcomes. So understanding story brand, as you know, like the cohesive whole, even if you're only able to implement in parts of it or you're only saying I, you know, I'm going to do the hero section of my website, I'm going to get that part right.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:30:09  That's fine. But I would highly recommend understanding the entire framework. it's one of those moments where once you get it, like, you can't un get it. It's, you know, it's almost like an epiphany. and so I would I would recommend reading the book for sure. Donald Miller story brand. but but then going on beyond that, there's also story Brunei. So you can sort of dabble in that. I am it's okay. Like like I am I'm a believer in story around 100%. the I side of it is. It's okay. you really need somebody who's going to listen to you and get your messaging right?

Tom O'Malley 00:30:43  That's right. We don't need any AI taking our jobs just yet. Yeah. I need a few more years before I retire. Yeah. Let's say a private practice owner starts to implement some of the story brand framework. They they read the book, or they engage with your agency. How can they tell if these changes are working? I mean, they by and large, are not going to have the resources to do a, B testing and in multiple landing pages and this and that.

Tom O'Malley 00:31:09  How how can they tell if what they, if the changes they made to their content is actually effective.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:31:16  Well conversion is a big one. Like how many more leads are you getting? People are are more interested in what you're doing, even if you're just having more conversations. You can definitely tell that that that's working. And then also the conversations that you're having with people, like if somebody reaches out on the contact form, you'll be able to tell in a minute that things have changed there. They see that you are empathetic. They see that you understand their journey. You're going to have different conversations with people, and you can see that it's more effective. they're going to be I don't want to say friendlier, but they trust you more because you've you've actually put yourself out there in this way and that you understand what it is that they are going through. So the the change in the tenor of those conversations is, is a big indicator.

Tom O'Malley 00:31:58  Yeah, I'm going to add one to that. If you are savvy enough to be looking at your Google Analytics, a big indicator would be the time on site.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:32:06  Time on site for sure.

Tom O'Malley 00:32:08  Yeah. Make sure you you look up those numbers before you make the changes and then after again. And if people are sticking around longer, that just means they're more engaged than they were before.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:32:18  For so well, and that's okay. Yeah. That can also be a function of how engaged you are if you're writing blog articles, if you're adding content to your site, then there's more for people to sink their teeth into. So, you know, that's the time on site. There is definitely if you've got that story brand mindset and you're thinking about how do I answer their questions, how do I, you know, write for them that time on site, we'll go up there to Jennifer.

Tom O'Malley 00:32:41  This has been so enlightening. I'm sure at this point everyone has rewound to restart the episode and is taking notes feverishly. I know I'm going to. Where can people go to learn a bit more about you in Salt marketing and what you guys are up to?

Jennifer Orechwa 00:32:57  Yeah, so Salt Marketing is at Salt Marketing.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:33:00  You can find me on LinkedIn. I accept all requests, so I would love to connect with you on LinkedIn. It is really easy to find me because my name is Jennifer and my last name is Oracle, which is. Oh, and there aren't a whole lot of oracles out there, so you can definitely find me on LinkedIn. And then of course we do the story brand messaging, but we also do a full scope of of marketing services that we can, we can help with. We also have an online membership that has swappable templates and tools, AI prompts that you can use to help to help. Right. and actually using your story brand framework once you've got that brand story down. actually incorporating that to save time and energy, as well as coaching calls and all that sort of thing. So that is at Salt Marketing, and we are actually running a special for the practice of the practice listeners. So if you go to soul marketing. You will find a special there where you can actually get that membership for a dollar for the first 30 days.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:33:58  use it all you like and jump on in there. We would love to have you.

Tom O'Malley 00:34:01  Oh that's amazing. Thank you so much for setting that up. And I'm sure many of us will take advantage. Alright. Well, thank you again for joining us. This has been an absolute eye opening pleasure and I'll talk to you soon.

Jennifer Orechwa 00:34:14  All right. Thanks, Tom I appreciate it.

Tom O'Malley 00:34:15  Thanks, Jennifer. To my listeners, your words matter and your website should reflect the impact you're already making in people's lives. Head over to session sites to see how we can elevate your practice online. Remember, you're not just building a website. You're building trust from the very first. Click until next time.

Joe Sanok 00:34:45  Thank you so much for hanging out with us today and letting us into your ears and into your brain. We couldn't do this show without our sponsors, motivo. Giving therapists like you a flexible, supportive way to complete your supervision hours virtually. With over 1200 vetted supervisors nationwide, motivo connects you with the right support for your journey, one that aligns with your goals and clinical niche.

Joe Sanok 00:35:11  So whether you're a therapist collecting hours towards licensure. An organization that hires. Associate therapists or a clinical supervisor. Head on over to Motivo Health to learn more. Your path to license should feel exciting, not exhausting. Get started today at Motivo health. That's m o t v o health. And you are amazing. Keep it up. In the next episode, we're going to be talking even more about websites from click to client optimizing your website for conversions. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band. Silence is sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.