[JOE SANOK] This is the Practice of the Practice Podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 783. I’m Joe Sanok, your host and welcome, welcome, welcome. I am so glad that you are here today. I hope life is treating you well. I hope that you are having a great time. This week we are kicking off our Level Up Week, and so we have all sorts of things that kick off today on the 12th of September, all throughout the whole week. Hope you are just ready to level up. We’re going to be helping you, whether you’re a solo practitioner, maybe you’re starting a solo practice, maybe you’re growing into a group practice. Maybe you’re launching things outside of a private practice. Either way, we are here to help you this week. I am so excited about our interview today. We have Brandon Antoskow, who is a Licensed Professional Counselor in private practice in Columbia, Tennessee. He has a passion for working with men and women who struggle with unresolved trauma and recovery from addiction. He also has a passion for adventure and is often found mountain biking or taking his family to new and exciting places. Brandon, welcome to the Practice of the Practice Podcast. Hope you’re doing awesome today. [BRANDON ANTOSKOW] Thanks for having me, Joe. I really appreciate it. [JOE] Well, let’s just kick off. Tell us a little bit about your private practice. when did you start it and what was helpful in getting it going? [BRANDON] Yes, so I started my private practice in October of 2021, so we’re coming up on a year, like a one-year anniversary for me. I think like a lot of folks, I had worked in non-profit settings, worked in community mental health and had always had a dream or a vision for wanting to be in full-time private practice. I got a point in my career where I was just feeling burnt out and recognizing that I needed a change of scenery and decided that it was time to make the leap. So after having a lot of conversations with my wife and just as a family, what did we value for our family and one of the things that we really valued was to be able to have some autonomy over our schedule. One of the things that I always encouraged patients that I worked with or clients was to live out your values so it just felt like this was the time to do it. I have a solo private practice here in Columbia, Tennessee and yes, it’s been an absolute whirlwind of a year, but I wouldn’t have traded it for anything. It’s been amazing. [JOE] That’s so awesome. When you think about the very beginning when you got things going what were some helpful things that helped you get it going? [BRANDON] I will say where I live in, in the Nashville area, it’s a very, it’s rapidly growing but it still has a small town feel to it. I tell a lot of people, I live in what feels like Mayberry sometimes. I had a couple of counselors in the area that were very supportive and I think the early on, just getting encouragement from other practitioners who were in private practice just telling me, you can do this, because obviously there was a lot of fear. I was leaving a stable paycheck, benefits, a comfortable environment into the complete unknown. As exciting as that was, it was also very scary because I realized that there is the chance that I could fail. That was definitely a possibility. I actually joined Next Level Practice right as I was beginning my practice and even just having a a group of people and meeting some folks in that community just to support me along the way. That was critical because there was definitely moments, the first few months of just being in a completely unknown environment, unknown situation and then just having some people say, “Hey, let me help you. This is what worked for me,” and guiding me through that was really helpful. [JOE] Yes, I mean for me, when I think about Next Level Practice, it’s the thing that I wish I had when I had started my practice because I fumbled around for years and I’d pick up a little bit of information from this person and that. I still remember when I learned about Psychology Today. I was at this LPC of Northern Michigan meeting and this guy Nick said, “Hey, are you in Psychology Today?” I’m like, “What the heck’s that?” He’s like, “Oh, it’s like 29 bucks a month.” The first week I did it, I got like three clients. I’m like, I wish I had a checklist or something that told me all these things and brought it together. So I’m with you. It just, it’s amazing to see the growth when people join Next Level Practice. Now for you, were there aspects of it that were especially helpful that then you learned, but then you also implemented, because I think it’s one thing to learn things but it’s really the implementation where you’re doing the heavy lifting more than just learning something. But what were some of the key things that you learned that then you implemented that helped you launch faster? [BRANDON] I think for me, the biggest thing, so full disclosure, I’m not very tech savvy and I would say that one of the things that I wanted was to have like a really good website. I have a limited social media presence, but I wanted that to be curated in a way that really spoke to the values of my practice so learning about like how to do a website, like that’s not something I learned in my graduate program or any of my clinical training. Just the nuances of how to even create a web presence and just those were things that were completely foreign to me before I joined Next Level Practice. Then also I think the biggest thing was just to be validated, to try out some things in my practice and people saying, yes, you can do that. For instance, like, setting my rate, I really went back and forth about this internal struggle of is my rate, am I worth it? Because I felt like I was asking a rate that was competitive for the area, but it just felt like a lot and just hearing other people say, yes, I go through that too, and let me tell you you’re worth it, that was, I think, worth its weight in gold, just to have other folks to challenge some of the doubt that would creep in. But then on a very practical level, it was learning how to like, set up a website, start to developing a marketing plan. I had never even heard of SEO. All of that was like new language to me and starting to recognize why that was important and then having actual steps to be able to follow, to put that into action. [JOE] I mean, I think it so funny how once we learn things, we we’re like, oh yes, of course SEO, but you don’t even know what you don’t know when you’re jumping into this business world. Your first say six months of starting the practice, what were other things you did to, once you had the basic infrastructure set up, what were things that you did that you think, wow, I’m really glad I did that so early on? [BRANDON] I think for me being in my own office, this can be a lonely space sometimes. So I recognize, wow, if I’m feeling this way, other practitioners in the area are probably feeling this way, so maybe we should find a way to develop some sense of community. So we started like a monthly coffee for anybody in the mental health community, LPCs, LMFTs, it didn’t matter what your credentials were to come, grab coffee and just have some fellowship. That was just really helpful, one, because of the fellowship and the sense of community that developed, but also, I got to know who did what in my area and they got to know me. So I know who really specializes working with couples and who works with adolescents and like I have names. So when people call me now and a prospective client, I’m talking to them. If I don’t have the right, if I’m not the right fit or I don’t have the space I have a guy or a girl for that. There’s someone in this community that can meet that need, and I know them on a personal level. I’ve gotten probably most of my referrals through that way of just other people, “Hey, Brandon’s really good at working with men struggling with trauma.” So I get a lot of referrals from other practitioners because we have that relationship in place. [LEVEL UP WEEK] I think it’s time that we speak about you and your goals for a minute. Hear me out. For a while now, we’ve been speaking about, about how to market your practice, how to grow your practice, and how to be a better boss and encourage a company culture but isn’t it time to start making it happen? I’m serious, I’m challenging you to just do it. Take that leap of faith, put yourself out there and level up in your practice. Think about it. You’re probably entering that phase where you start to set yourself up for 2023. You’re thinking about what your goals are going to be, what you’re not going to do and what you hope to achieve. But regardless of where you are within your private practice journey, I’m challenging you to make these last few months count to dig deep, to make next year the one for big changes within your business and more importantly within yourself. If you’ve been looking for a sign to either start your own private practice, grow from solo to group, or become a next level group practice boss, this is it. You’re certainly not alone because Practice of the Practice is doing something we’ve never done before. We’re so convinced that now is the time for you to grow, that we’re dedicating all our resources to help you do it. We’re all in every single one of us and we’re inviting you to go all in and level up. From September 12th to September 15th, we’ll be running level up week to help you decide what will work best for you in your private practice journey. There will be webinars, Q&As with experts and a chance for you to meet your accountability partners, facilitators, and community. If you’re ready to make a change and level up register at practiceofthepractice.com/levelup and follow our Facebook and Instagram pages at Practice of the Practice for live updates and event details. Lastly, before I jump back into this episode, I just want to say that I really hope to see you there, even if it’s just online. Remember that leveling up week isn’t about us. It’s not about me or about Practice of the Practice. It’s all about you and growing your practice, whether it be your first solo practice or growing you from group practice boss to reaching a national audience. Make September, 2022, the month that you start your journey and level up. [JOE SANOK] Yes, it’s so interesting. the podcast right before this when I was talking, actually it’s not going to go, it went live last week even though I’m recording on the same day. Angela, in episode 779 was just talking about networking and how important it was just to get to know people and not to view it as networking, like I’m giving out my business cards, but just to have people know who you are and you know who they are, and then you refer back and forth. That initially she was really nervous about it and then was like, this is, it’s just getting to know people. It’s not a big deal. I think that even just creating that community of therapists that can talk regularly and know each other and refer is so key to just getting started quickly. What other things were maybe things you invested time in towards the beginning when maybe you had a little more time than clients that you put time into that you say, wow, that has a great return on investment for the time that I put into maybe a couple other things? [BRANDON] I think for me early on like I said, it was doing that grassroots effort to try to just get to know the community. The other thing that I recognized pretty early for me was like I said, I needed to learn about technology. Just for me personally, just not knowing a lot about websites, SEO, different marketing techniques, learning how to put together like an Instagram story and like how to use, I use Instagram as part of my social media marketing, but like how to actually make that effective so it didn’t look like I had just taken pictures on a whim; that they were curated and that it looked professionally done. That was really helpful. Also, like I had always wanted to start a blog, and so learning how to like do that effectively and like things that before I started a practice, it was always, wow, wouldn’t it be cool if fill in the blank. Then within that first couple of months saying, I actually have the time and the space to do that. So starting to write, I had the opportunity to write an article for a local magazine here in my community. I even had the ability to, it was writing about my own mental health journey and then using it in a way to also really promote my practice. So that was really helpful. These were things that like I wouldn’t have been able to do in my previous career and so just allowing myself to try some different things that had always been on the back burner but had never been able to come to fruition. [JOE] Yes, I think that whole idea of before you have all the clients you want working the number of hours that you want to eventually be working. So if you want 20 clients that’s plus paperwork, can be 25, 30 hours a week. If you only have five clients, work that 25 hours, really get out there and go after it and learn. Now why for you, was it important to learn the technology before, say you outsourced it, because some people would say, well why should you even outsource or why should you even learn that you can outsource that? Was it important for you from a financial standpoint to just keep your costs low? Was it that you wanted to learn it before you outsourced it? Why’d you decide you needed to learn some of that tech stuff before you would say hand that off to somebody else? [BRANDON] That’s a good question. I think starting out one I had the time, so like you said, I held office hours as if I had a full caseload. So I went to my office every morning as if I had a client and if I didn’t have clients early on I was using that time to try to build my website and reading a lot of books and things that I felt like would be helpful with that. I think for me, why that was important, one, I just wanted to learn about it. There was a natural curiosity. It was so different than what I had done professionally that it just felt like this would be really interesting to learn about but also I wanted to know before I paid someone else to do it, what I would be paying for. Because one of the things I learned, there was a lot of things that sounded very scary to me early on, like for instance, how to do SEO and how to do all these things that once I got in the weeds a little bit and rolled up my sleeves, I realized I could do this. I enjoyed doing it. There’s some things that I don’t particularly enjoy and I will probably outsource that, but now I know what those are and I know the language a little bit more to be able to one, articulate what my needs are with that person and two, know what I’m paying for. I felt like with a lot of the technology, there was lots of technical speech, but when I got into it, I’m like, oh, this makes sense. I can do this. Particularly with the website, I felt like that was one I actually had a lot of fun with. I got to be creative and it got to tap into a creative part of me. It was a fun project and I had the time. Now, if I had to redo my website, I would probably outsource that but I know exactly what I would want and I would want, I know how it would flow and I could have that conversation with someone. It felt like I knew what I was talking about. [JOE] Yes, it’s really interesting how even just having a little bit of knowledge helps prevent, for one, someone taking advantage of you and for two, to just know the direction of where we want to go. So like a friend of mine recently, her lights in the back of her car were flickering. I’m not a car guy, I will say that I’m definitely not a car guy. But she was going to take it into the shop and the shop was closed on the day she had scheduled. So I’m like, “Well, let’s just go over to AutoZone and see if we can figure it out.” I like just Googled, why do lights flicker and nine times out of 10 it’s that either your alternator or your battery isn’t working on your car. So we went inside and I just said, hey do you guys have the, I had googled what the name of the contraption to check that stuff, and they come out and totally for free they check the battery and they’re like, “The battery’s at 60%. Looks like the alternator’s about to go. Yes, you do need new lights back in the back, but you don’t need new wiring.” It’s like that saved her like $300 by just Googling why do back lights flicker. I think the same thing can be true with SEO or a website or different aspects of your practice where yes, you don’t have to become an expert on it, but to just have a working language will at least help you be able to ask for the thing that you want and need rather than just have some company take advantage of you or make you think oh, you need all these things when it’s like, do I really need that? [BRANDON] Yes, yes, absolutely. Like I said, it was actually, it was fun. It was something new, which was also part of the excitement of starting our practices. There was so much new happening those first few months that there was never a dull week at the office. Every day it was like, okay, I’ve got to figure out how to upload these images or find good content for the website. It was just, and then like learning the language, like you said, and feeling like I could comfortably communicate that now regardless of what I needed in my website and I could have that conversation. It was so important for me. [JOE] So on one side you’re networking, you’re getting to know people, it’s just the emotional or more creative, so social side and on the other side you’ve got the technical so people can find you if they Google you or things like that. So once you had those things set up, what did it look like when you started to get your first clients, what were landmines you hit or things that surprised you during that time of just getting the practice going and keeping the flow? Because it’s one thing to get the basic infrastructure, it’s a whole different thing to now you’ve got 5, 10, 20 clients coming in, you got to keep up with all this stuff. What did you do well, what could you have done better during that phase of your first round of clients? [BRANDON] That’s a great question. Best investment I think I made was in a good EMR. I originally thought I’ll just do like paper notes and try to, and I very quickly learned that was just not an efficient way to run a practice. So I got an account with therapy notes and that was hands down worth every penny because as I started getting clients it was just very easy to have everything centrally located. The first couple months things were slow going, but they started to progress fairly quickly. I think once word got out that there was a counselor in this area that was seeking seeing clients was very fortunate to start getting referrals and things like that. So I think for me, the biggest thing, like you said, was one, I wasn’t aware of how much, and I know we actually just had a conversation about this, this week about imposter syndrome, how that would show up for me. I remember catching myself when people would ask me, what is your rate? I would explain my rate and then immediately follow that up with, but if you can’t afford that, that’s okay, we can work something out. And just like learning how to cut that whole second part out completely and just standing behind what my rate was and knowing that I was worth it. And I guess being surprised for some reason that people would be like, okay, that’s great. It was never an issue. I’ve definitely worked with folks and done sliding scale but learning how to just stand behind what I was marketing and what I was trying to provide, the services I was providing that was big for me because it was deeper than just a professional thing. It touched on a lot of personal parts of me, like I said, with that imposter syndrome, having to work through that. So as I got more clients, I felt more comfortable being able to say, yes, this is my rate and I didn’t say this, but in my mind thinking and I’m worth it. I think the other thing was moving from this mentality of trying to just survive and feeling like a sense of desperation, which I think is totally normal and appropriate. I reflect back those first few months just praying that I would get clients to getting to a certain point of really starting to recognize like I can do this. It was just a shift in mentality and being willing to collaborate with other counselors and refer out and like, just, I don’t know, there was a shift that happened around January or February for me where I recognized that I think I can make this work. I can at least pay my bills. We’re not missing any meals, so we must be doing something right. So then shifting into this mentality of abundance and like, how can I then promote other counselors? That has also paid dividends for me personally, but then just watching the counseling community grow in my area has been really cool too. [JOE] So what’s next for you? When you look at the next six months or a year? How are you thinking through where you want to grow the practice now? [BRANDON] We’ve gone through a lot of changes in the last couple years as a culture and obviously as a professional coming right out of the pandemic and making a huge career shift. I promised my wife no more major changes for the next year. We also had our second child, our daughter, during the pandemic [JOE] Oh, congratulations. [BRANDON] Thanks. Yes, I think we just want like a stable, I say that, who knows what’ll happen in 2023, but for the next year I want to just keep doing what I’m doing. I’m going to continue in Next Level Practice, continue to build this practice and really just see where I can take it. Long-term I do want to open a group practice and really expand my brand, Antoskow Counseling into something bigger than just me. So the five-year plan would be to build the practice up into like a group practice in this community. [JOE] I mean, that sounds awesome. With a new child, you definitely want to be able to have that time to do that. So maybe doing Group Practice Launch might not be on the radar this round, but we’ll be around when you’re ready for that. That makes a lot of sense. So the last question I always ask is, if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? [BRANDON] I would want them to know that you’re enough and that you can do this. I heard that so many different ways from different people. It was said to me that way. It was so encouraging because there were so many opportunities for me and doors open because someone basically just gave me permission to walk through. So if you’re out there and you’re thinking about doing this, you’re enough and you can do this. Yes, it’s scary. Yes, there’s lots of unknowns, but that is what makes life worth living in my opinion. If there’s a desire on your heart to go out and be a practitioner in private practice, I say go for it. You got it. [JOE] So awesome. Well, if people want to connect with you, if they want to learn about what you’re working on how can they find you? [BRANDON] Sure, antoskowcounseling.com is my website. I also have Instagram, you can find me at Antoskow Counseling on Instagram. Those are the two areas that I really try to have my presence out there. [JOE] Awesome. Well, Brandon, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast. [BRANDON] Thank you. Thanks for having me, Joe. [JOE] We covered a lot of ground today in just a short period of time there. If any of those communities sound interesting to you, they have opened today, today’s September 12th. We right now opened up all of our communities for Level Up Week. So if you want to join Next Level Practice, if you want to start a solo practice or if you’re in solo practice, that’s for you. If you want to add your first clinician, Group Practice Launch is kicking off and over six months, you will add your first clinician, if not more. Oftentimes, you have more than just one person added. Then if you’re a group practice boss, we have Group Practice Boss. All of those communities you can read about over at practiceofthepractice.com/levelup. Let me just tell you some of the amazing things we have going on tomorrow, September 13th. We have using Instagram reels to level up, that’s at 10 o’clock eastern, on the 13th, we have the level up webinar about maybe you’re not sure how or where to level up. It could be podcasts, it could be e-course, public speaking. We’re going to be talking about how do you think through and plan the next six to 12 months. I’ll be leading that at 11:00 AM. On the 13th at 1:00 PM Eastern on the 13th, we’ll be talking about directory sites. Then at 2:30 on the 13th we have private practice Q&A and then at 8:00 PM Eastern, yes, I’m staying up late for y’all. My kids are going to have to put themselves to bed. We have how to level up your private practice. So all sorts of amazing things. That’s all coming tomorrow, September 13th. Also we have some major bonuses for people that level up. So if you’re in Next Level Practice and you level up into Group Practice Launch or you just jump on into Group Practice Boss, anyone that signs up for a community that’s above where they’re at now or joins one, we have 100K camp tickets for our event in Cancun, Mexico, October 20th through 23rd. As well, TeleWellness Hub is giving away a hundred premium memberships. That alone is worth $396. That’s for 2022. You’re also going to get free CTV ads for that, Killin’It Camp ticket worth $297. Then also if you sign up for Audience Building Academy, you get a free Slow Down School ticket. You do have to pay for your lodging because that’s a real cost that we have to actually pay for. So you have to pay for your lodging. Other than that, the ticket fee is waived. That’s $1,997 value, so tons of huge bonuses. You can read all about our different communities over at practiceofthepractice.com/levelup. Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.