Joe Sanok 00:00:00 You’re someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You’re also someone who’d prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else’s story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. Again, that’s practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Sarna. Session number 1011. I’m Joe Stanek, your host, and welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. I am so excited to have you here today and seeing that it is episode 1011. Joe Sanok 00:01:16 we did not plan to have all zeros and ones in the episode, but we’re talking some AI today, so I think maybe the AI jumped in there and rearrange some things for us. you know, this is the show that we’re doing, I think 5 to 6 times a week now, and we help you build a thriving practice that you absolutely love. And I don’t know about you, but I have some mixed feelings about AI. you know, there’s some really beneficial things. Like just the other day. So, I met this podcaster a few years ago, and when his daughters turned 13, they could go anywhere in the US on a trip. And my daughter and I, she just turned 13. she’s been planning this trip. she’s got a Trello board. She’s keeping track of where she wants to go and what she wants to do and I had saw this TikTok of how to use AI to help with travel plans, and I had asked ChatGPT. I said, you know, we’re going to be going for this many days and this many nights. Joe Sanok 00:02:08 I’m traveling with a 13 year old girl who probably can hike three miles, you know, maybe more, but not on vacation. you know, here’s the kinds of things that we’re into. You know, we like food, but not too expensive of food. I want also tips on safety, create a day by day plan. And it was mind blowing. It said, like, go to this beach. And I looked up the beach, and it’s an amazing beach, and it’s like there’s this little food truck there that has great sandwiches. grab some of those and then, you know, in the afternoon, do this. And it it was better than, than anything that I’ve seen before in regards to travel plans. You know, in the past I used to use like tripit where you just forward all your things and it puts it together like, you know, pick up your rental car and check in at your Airbnb, which, I mean, that was a big step forward. but to just see where we’re at with the potential and knowing what prompts to do and things like that. Joe Sanok 00:03:01 I’ve been using it recently to just help think through our email series in the lead up to Level Up Week, and for all of our memberships that are going to be opening in in September. And it’s just amazing, this tool that’s out there and there’s also some fear around it there. You know, our therapist’s going to be replaced by this. there was actually just an article recently that a friend of mine referenced, that put therapists on the list of, of things that I could really revolutionize. And so understanding this and not just putting our heads in the sand and saying, well, how can we help our burnout? How can we help ourselves with the way that we run our practices? How can I help us in different ways than maybe we’ve been able to use it in the past? is something we’re going to be talking today with. And I’m so excited that we have Ted Phaneuf, who is a licensed clinical social worker and private practice and is also the head of clinical operations at uphill. He has worked in various aspects of clinical operations across different digital mental health organizations, from being a provider to leading providers and overall clinical operations, and is passionate to bring solutions to alleviate administrative burnout to providers. Joe Sanok 00:04:09 Ted, welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast. Ted Faneuff 00:04:13 Thank you so much, Joe, for having me. Joe Sanok 00:04:15 Yeah, well, we were talking before we got rolling about kind of where to start. And something we were talking about was just a little bit about your own view of the world through ADHD and neuro divergence. And I would love to hear as a starting point, just, you know, with tell us a little bit about those, those things that were part of who you are and how that led you into therapy. Ted Faneuff 00:04:37 Yeah. so I was one of those, you know, individuals who probably dealt with symptoms of A.D.D. for most of my life but wasn’t really diagnosed until I was an adult, so struggled a lot with executive function and, you know, conceptualizing and structuring and all those fun things. You know, the dealt a lot of insecurities, right, in my education. You know, even in high school and into college and even into my work as a therapist, I think that that sort of magnified the imposter syndrome that everybody sort of feels in this field. Ted Faneuff 00:05:13 And, you know, a couple of years ago when I was into my private practice, pretty, pretty heavy, I, you know, full time, I would just, you know, similarly to how I would get stuck in school in my education educational journey. I would just get stuck right on, like the first step. It’s always the first step of trying to figure out, okay, what am I supposed to write? How do I even start this? And I would find that all the time with my documentation. And it really, you know, obviously lent itself to a lot of imposter syndrome for me, feeling like, okay, do I really know what I’m doing as a therapist if I can’t even write it down? And I was so far behind on my documentation and of course we all know if you don’t document, you don’t bill. And if you don’t Bill, you don’t. You know, if you support a family you don’t eat or they don’t get the things that they need. Ted Faneuff 00:06:01 So I was really, at a point in my life considering whether or not I really even wanted to stay in the field because I was so burned out. The documentation burnt out on top of that made me really question like, is this what is this, what I want to do? And so when I was introduced to AI technology, you know, for for documentation, of course, everybody’s first inclination is nope. You know, it’s like, no, I’m not going to do that. but I really right. Joe Sanok 00:06:30 Away the things that run through your head are like, oh my gosh, HIPAA like, is the government going to listen in on this? Is are the Chinese listening in is like, we’re going to have some big breach that’s going to our clients are going to be like screwed over. Is it just AI learning how to do therapy? So then I don’t have a job eventually. I mean, all of that comes up for sure. Ted Faneuff 00:06:49 I started imagining like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Terminator therapists, you know, oh my gosh! Joe Sanok 00:06:53 Yes! Terminator three rise of the therapists. Joe Sanok 00:06:58 Yeah I think. Ted Faneuff 00:06:59 Yeah, that was exactly it. I think a lot of people have that fear, you know, because of how it’s presented, maybe in the media and obviously there’s some real fear behind it and we’ll talk about that. But yeah, but for for me, it was like, you know, why don’t I give this a try? And I actually met with the CEO of appeal at that time, Uri, and he and I had a conversation about his passion for this and sort of what he was building and the safety that he was, you know, conceptualizing into it. And for me, that was a, you know, I was like, okay, I can be a beta tester, right? Like for nothing else, if nothing else, I can be a beta tester for this product and really give some insight into it if, if nothing else. So I got on the bandwagon and I started using it, and for me it was a complete a complete game changer. And it’s and it opened up for me being able to actually experience life outside of the practice. Ted Faneuff 00:07:50 Again, I know that that sounds maybe a little bit strange, to put it that way. But my entire life at that time was marketing and seeing clients and then spending hours and hours on documentation. So it gave me a lot of my time back in my day. But I guess that’s in a nutshell. That’s my journey of where I got to this point. Joe Sanok 00:08:08 Yeah. Let’s dig into maybe some of the either misconceptions or fears or pushback that that you hear, or even maybe you think in regards to AI helping with note taking or different aspects of a business. Ted Faneuff 00:08:21 Yeah, I think the primary one, is data security, right. And privacy. that’s that’s one that I commonly hear first from therapists because obviously, you know, we have a duty to protect our clients information, and we want to make sure that, you know, we’re not going to be involved in a unnecessarily in a breach and, you know, things of that nature. So I think, you know, the data and privacy piece is a big component of fear. Ted Faneuff 00:08:46 but I also think that what you were, you and I were kind of joking about earlier was a very is a very real fear as well, which is I going to completely take over therapy, right? you know, I think that there’s there’s a lot of, concern in this in this area as well as other fields, right, about what AI is capable of and what and what it can do. So those are the main I think the main two concerns that I hear people talk about quite a bit. Joe Sanok 00:09:12 Yeah, yeah. And what’s the reality like, what are you seeing. What are like I guess. Yeah. What’s the reality there. Ted Faneuff 00:09:21 Yeah. Well obviously, you know, we joked about it, I don’t know. And I actually wrote like a blog piece on LinkedIn about this. I don’t think that we’re ready for the robot rebellion yet with respect to to AI replacing therapist. And, and the reason I think that, is because, you know, when let’s just talk about when Covid happened, right? When Covid happened, we saw a huge shift in the clients and the therapists comfort level to shift, you know, services online. Ted Faneuff 00:09:46 And now we’re starting to see sort of a shift back to more in-person person sessions. And what I typically see is usually about, you know, therapists doing about 60% telehealth for, you know, 40% in person. And I and I bring that up because, you know, there’s a level always level of technology adoption and comfort level. Right? you know, with, with where people are at and accepting and accepting technology sort of integrating into the workflows. But with therapy, you know, there’s always this aspect of the necessity for human touch that is that is both wanted by the client and also obviously by the therapists themselves. So there’s always this human touch that I will never, ever be able to replicate. you know, so I think that even if we were really good. Right, even if we were really good at creating, you know, a therapist, I sort of situation, there’s always that uncanny valley. I think if you’ve ever heard that that terminology before, that uncanny valley that I can’t quite overcome, which is essentially that, you know, that humanness that that is all that is present obviously, when you’re talking. Ted Faneuff 00:10:52 To another person. So I don’t think that at least in the foreseeable future, will ever, will ever get over that. And I don’t think clients will either. there might be certain aspects of the population, Joe, that will that might gravitate towards a more, you know, chat bot. So sort of therapy, you know, I see this maybe in the younger generations they might want to, to engage with that. But I still see chatbots as being sort of prescriptive, you know, still guided by therapist or at least, you know, as an augmentation of services rather than taking over our role completely. Joe Sanok 00:11:27 Yeah. Well, and I think that, like, not that every human voice doesn’t have the power to try to change our world, but if we get to the point where I can be as good as a therapist or better and be a virtual Sigmund Freud, a virtual John Gottman, a virtual whoever therapist someone wants to work with. we’re probably kind of powerless at that point to to really push back by just saying I’m not going to use that. Joe Sanok 00:11:54 But I do think that the way I’m viewing I and I would love to know for you personally, like even just outside of your role, is, you know, there’s things that I can really speed up for me. So, for example, last week I was doing a presentation for group practice boss, and it was all on outsourcing and on delegating within your business. And, I’ve run a few different scenarios where it knows how to speak like me and think like me. And I just said, you know, I need to have kind of seven of the biggest, like, kind of common mindsets that people have against delegating or outsourcing things like, no one can do it like me or my business is my baby. And it’s like it came up with these great ideas that became prompts on a slide for me, that I of course adjusted. But then when I’m actually publicly speaking, I’m still bringing in my own experience, my own application, my own case studies. But that basic just kind of brainstorming bandwidth that we have to use to just come up with those sorts of things. Joe Sanok 00:12:50 You know, I’m 99% of the way there by having I help me with that. And then it’s my responsibility to kind of have that be my own, my own style after that. How are you thinking about I either you know, personally or in regards to like business or anything, you have your own practice. Like what kind of things are you playing with or testing to see if it’s going to help you in your business or personal life? Ted Faneuff 00:13:14 Yeah. I, I really, I’ve started to utilize, you know, a I tools more for, like, conceptualizing or at least pulling together, like you said, a lot of information to give me the bullet points. Right. If you, you know, if you want to learn about a topic, for example, and you want to become is up to speed as possible on it, you can kind of utilize any sort of, you know, I prompting, you know, ChatGPT Claude, different thing like that to sort of say, hey, you know, this is the topic I’m interested in, you know, give me the most salient points that I need to know. Ted Faneuff 00:13:48 You know, help me sort of learn as much as possible, about this particular topic. And I think that that because, you know, in my, in my particular role in my world, you know, I tasks which all the time. And so I try to use these tools to, to give me the most information, succinctly and organized way as possible. And like you said, I think there’s always that element, though, you still have to go into it and you still have to organize it to to what makes sense to you or, you know, to provide some of your own voice behind it. But I think that the majority of the way I use it is organizational. Right. And, you know, I don’t typically well, and obviously I use it for my documentation. So I mean, for me, in my practice, that’s the single like most use where I use I, I use AI to write all my clinical documentation or at least provide me, I think that you would use the word you know, well, similar to an outline, right? It’s an outline of my therapy note it’s about 85% done. Ted Faneuff 00:14:47 I go in and I just review it really quickly and I, you know, kind of sign off on it to make sure that it meets all of the needs that I have to capture the session information. But there’s all sorts of other, you know, even I see people utilizing I, you know, in, you know, even in creating professional like, photos, right, or kind of giving prompts to, to kind of create, you know, creative images for their website marketing and different things like that. So it just I think by and large, what we’re saying is it takes out a lot of the, the, the mental, like real estate sometimes, you know, to conceptualize something and it gives you, you know, a platform, you know, just to basically to go from. Right. And I know it’s hard to kind of put in words, but it takes out majority of the guesswork or the thinking work, to give you something to work off of. Joe Sanok 00:15:39 yeah. Yeah, I think that, you know, when I think about my own burnout. Joe Sanok 00:15:45 You know, when I had my counseling practice before I sold that back in 2019, or even when I was working at Community mental health or with wraparound or foster care. I mean, the actual clinical work was my favorite part, you know, talking to therapy clients and seeing that change and having that face to face interaction, and the progress notes, the intake paperwork, all of that was, you know, the billing. It’s like, oh my gosh, I hate this part. But like you said in the beginning, you know, if you don’t document, it didn’t happen. when you think about areas of burnout, I know that’s another specialty of yours. you know, in addition to progress notes, just where are you seeing burnout areas that therapists need to pay attention to? Ted Faneuff 00:16:33 outside of documentation? I think that in general, you know, obviously, what we’re experiencing right now is, you know, the increased caseloads, you know, that our I mean, I think access to care being so critically, you know, there’s so many there’s so much need right now for mental health professionals. Ted Faneuff 00:16:52 I guess let’s just start with that. So I think because there’s so much of a need for mental health professionals, there are a lot of people who need help. There’s not a lot of people who can meet that demand. And so our caseloads are just really, really growing. and I think I think by and large, too, you know, I don’t know, maybe a lot of people could have said this throughout the ages, but I feel like, you know, what we’re seeing are a lot more complex cases, too. And I think that that that, you know, the complex cases combined with so many of them in the in the expectations to take on more and more clients, I think that’s the significant portion of burnout. You know, the I that I see. But I think in general too, like if you’re looking at it from a private practice perspective, there’s just that, that aspect of all of the things that you have to do, right? Like you have to market, you have to actually do the clinical work, you have to do the documentation. Ted Faneuff 00:17:38 You have to, you know, maintain CEUs like there’s so many things that make our, our particular profession susceptible to burnout just by all the moving pieces. Joe Sanok 00:17:51 Yeah. As a therapist, I can tell you from experience that having the right EHR is an absolute lifeline. I recommend using therapy notes. They make billing scheduling, note taking, telehealth and e-prescribing is incredibly easy. Best of all they offer live telephone support. It’s available seven days a week. You don’t have to take my word for it. Do your own research and see for yourself. Therapy notes is the number one highest rated EHR system available today, with a 4.9 out of five stars on Trustpilot. Com and on Google, all you have to do is click the link below or type promo code Joe on their website over at Therapy notes.com and receive a special two month trial. Absolutely free. Again, that’s therapy. notes.com and use promo code Joe on the website. If you’re coming from another EHR therapy notes will also import your demographic data quick and easy at no cost, so you can get started right away. Joe Sanok 00:18:57 Trust me, don’t waste any more of your time and try therapy notes. Just use promo code Joe at checkout. Now, when you think about a practice owner implementing, I note taking through something like uphill water. Before we get into the actual implementation, are there things that you need to have kind of in order, like ducks in a row before you even consider that? Or is it sort of something you can just jump right into, like like what’s the prep, I guess is my my real question? Ted Faneuff 00:19:28 Well, you know, I always say, you know, when I’m talking to people, I’m doing demo calls or whatnot for, for appeal. You know, obviously doing your research is the first thing because there’s a lot there are a lot of different notetaking taking companies out there. but I do believe that, you know, each one, you know, has its strengths and weaknesses. But so I would I would encourage everybody to do at least the free trials that are available on lots of the different platforms. Ted Faneuff 00:19:51 But by and large, one of the things that I would say, prep wise, for a therapist to, to help them get ready for AI documentation, is to really do their homework about the benefits, right? But also the information like to help you build out your informed consent, you know, process. But I usually tell people because one of the number one questions that I get is, well, do clients actually want this or are clients resistant to this? And what I usually say in response to that is, well, that depends on your comfort level. If you can talk comfortably about AI and how it can help you deliver better care, and how it helps you as a therapist sort of maintain your focus on them, which in in reality creates better outcomes. Right. as long as you can do some, some prep work ahead of time to understand AI and how to talk about it, how you know, how it basically utilizes, you know, a LM to sort of kind of filter the information through, but that you are responsible for the final edit, you know, and talk about the security, privacy aspects of it. Ted Faneuff 00:20:52 Those are the main things I think that people need to prep for is just understanding how how to talk about it and the specifics. Joe Sanok 00:21:00 Yeah. And when you think about how to talk about it, do you have sort of a script or some kind of key points that people should say when they’re talking to their clients or introducing them? Ted Faneuff 00:21:09 Yeah. So when I what I usually coach people on in this is, is really to focus on the, the present centeredness right aspect of the therapy process and how important that is. And, you know, for some people, documentation, they sort of see it as very paramount to the delivery of care. But for many people, they sort of see it as secondary. And when I’m talking to my clients, that’s the way that I approach it. I say, you know, the documentation process is an important one, you know, that we have to do because we want to make sure that we document progress. But more importantly, I want to make sure that you and I are able to keep our eyes on one another so that I can understand what you’re going through when we’re talking about, you know, some of the things that you’re bringing to the table. Ted Faneuff 00:21:52 I don’t want to have to be looking at another screen or say, I’m sorry. That’s a really important point. Let me write that down. I want to be able to be human with them in the moment. And that’s sort of how I coach people to sort of address it is to say, you know, I, you know, ironically, we’re worried about it, you know, taking away humanity of therapy. But I feel like it really helps infuse humanity back into the therapy process by taking away that documentation burden. Joe Sanok 00:22:21 yeah. So assuming that the clinician feels comfortable with implementing it, you know, they know how to talk to clients about it. what’s the actual process with uphill or, you know, with other platforms that, that you think? I guess, like, what’s the typical process of what that looks like to actually have AI helping with note taking? Ted Faneuff 00:22:42 Yeah, it’s pretty easy, actually. I mean, you know, they’re one of the things I forgot to mention too, is, you know, you obviously want to prep a really good informed consent as well. Ted Faneuff 00:22:50 and so, you know, at appeal we actually give templates for that as well to sort of guide the language that you can use that’s been vetted by our legal team as well. but you know, basically having building that into the informed consent process in your paperwork. but also, you know, having that conversation, you know, when a client first starts with you about, you know, what the AI is used for, why it’s there, like we’ve been talking about. But really, you know, appeal allows a couple of different options, like you can actually have appeal, take care of the client consent paperwork and things for you, or you can do it, you know, build it into your own, like I just said. But really it’s adding the client to your practice, you know, in appeal. And sometimes people are using, you know, client mnemonics, you know, they might use like initials that you know, to further increase the anonymity of it. you know, based on if they use it, if they use appeal solely for, you know, their documentation and video integration, because we have both. Ted Faneuff 00:23:46 But sometimes people who are using other EHRs, they just want to use initials and client numbers. So it’s basically putting the information into the system. And you know, we have a couple of different ways to integrate it into your practice. You know, we have a Chrome extension that can be utilized for, you know, people who are using electronic EHRs. And really on the client side, it’s just basically having that first conversation with them to say, this is what I use, I use appeal, here’s the consent. And then in the back it operates in the background. Right. So there’s not a lot of client prep work that needs to be done. And from a therapist perspective, it’s just setting up your practice. And, you know, knowing how what tools within our platform are most integrated into your workflow. Joe Sanok 00:24:29 Yeah. so when when you think about like a group practice owner, I know you can have great technology, you can have great EHRs, all sorts of other tools that are supposed to automate things. Joe Sanok 00:24:41 And then people don’t use them correctly. They don’t use them appropriately. What do you have in regards to suggestions for from a management standpoint, kind of like a clinical director or an owner standpoint, what are extra things that they would have to think about in regards to implementing AI throughout a practice? Ted Faneuff 00:24:59 Well, I think it just depends. obviously on your mix of, of, you know, if you have W-2 or 1099, you can’t force obviously anybody to utilize this technology. so I think that’s one aspect to consider as a group practice owner. what I, you know, a lot of our group practice owners that we work with, how I typically see this going is, you know, they will have conversations with us first and we will kind of give them, you know, the ideas of how to structure the conversation with their practice, you know, with their people in the practice. And then basically, you know, what a lot of people are saying is that they’ll have, like, this group meeting with all of their staff, and they’ll sort of let them know what it is and they’ll kind of talk it out. Ted Faneuff 00:25:40 Right. you know, and then we provide, you know, onboarding, you know, for group practices and things like that, where we will be on, you know, with the group practice, with any of the therapists who are going to be utilizing it so that we can actually show them how to how to use the product correctly to get the most benefit out of it. So, but I think by and large, the first thing you got to do is get the buy in right from your, from your staff. and then it’s pretty, it’s pretty easy to use and it’s just basically showing them, you know, how to use it and how to integrate it into their workflow. Joe Sanok 00:26:15 Wow. I mean it’s amazing. Like I was just talking to my dad last night and he, he’s a psychologist. He had a private practice. He was a school psychologist. And he said to me, you know if I was starting a practice today, I feel like I would have to consult with you, Joe, because there’s just so many things that are so different from the 80s. Joe Sanok 00:26:33 and I’m like, yeah, I mean, you know, he was, you know, faxing, networking things to people in the 90s, and that was cutting edge. So, it’s amazing to see how far technology has come. in the second we’re going to wrap this up with the final question, but I would just love kind of big picture, where do you hope to see I go in regards to supporting therapists? Like, are there areas that you’re you’re watching or areas that you just are excited about or any just things that you’re like, wow, like what could happen in this, this space? how do you hope it addresses burnout, better clinical outcomes, other things, in this space? Ted Faneuff 00:27:07 Well, I think primarily, one of the things I wanted to kind of mention, you know, we talked about imposter syndrome earlier, one of the one of the unexpected sort of delights I’m getting from from utilizing this is, you know, I think that it really legitimizes the work that I do with the clients. Ted Faneuff 00:27:23 And what I mean by that is, you know, when I, when I read my the note right after, you know, our, our proprietary sort of modeling. You know, it doesn’t just hallucinate, right? We do a lot of things to try to maintain or make sure that it doesn’t hallucinate and just add stuff in there. So but but it really looks at what, what is being discussed in the context of the therapy session in order to create the note and so on the other side of it, when you’re reviewing the note as a therapist, you can go, gosh, I really I really do know what I’m doing. Right. Like, it really helps you sort of see, like, you know, you’re doing really great therapy work because the model actually can capture it and say, this is what you did, and this was the client’s response to that. So that’s one area where I think it really is helpful for burnout, right. To make sure that it legitimizes. And it’s sort of like proves to therapists who might be sort of like, I don’t know what I’m doing half the time, or I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing half the time. Ted Faneuff 00:28:15 It sort of like demonstrates. Yeah, you do you, you know what you’re doing. But I think, I think in the coming years what I’m sort of excited about you. I think you’re going to see I, you know, obviously helping therapists expand on their abilities and sort of augmenting the delivery of their interventions. I think you’re going to see more assistance with diagnosis and complex differential diagnosis, which I think is maybe challenging for therapists sometimes. I think that you’re going to see it, which, you know, being able to provide more prescribed psychoeducation, right, on topics that are specific to the client. you know, or even one of the things that’s sort of been interesting, I’ve been having some conversations with insurance companies. I think that you’re going to see AI helping to solve to or analyze practice documentation data to, to maybe determine risk of audits. Right. Or like, you know, some of that sort of information to sort of help therapists go, okay, maybe I need to, you know, think about this a little differently, or I need to word this a little bit differently. Ted Faneuff 00:29:09 So I think that there’s a lot of different things that AI is going to be able to, you know, to really assist with that, I’m really excited about in the future. Joe Sanok 00:29:16 so awesome. Well, if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? Ted Faneuff 00:29:24 Great question. and you were right. You said most people will think about this, and I think I’ve got an idea. So I think right now I’m seeing the resistance. Right? I’m seeing a lot of resistance to, to AI, and incorporating AI into therapy practice. But what I’ll say is that AI is going to be incorporated one way or another. and I encourage more therapists to get involved in shaping this right, to meet the ethical needs, the guidelines of our clients, you know, versus resisting the change and just sort of watching it happen in front of you. the more voices that get involved in shaping this right and adopting it, adopting the technology, the more that we can shape it to work with our field and not against it. Ted Faneuff 00:30:03 So that’s where we’re going to see, like AI not replacing therapists. It’s not in the resist resist. It’s in the get involved, right. Get involved and sort of help shape this on a, on a level to make it work for us and not against us. Joe Sanok 00:30:16 So awesome. Well, Ted, if people want to connect with uphill, if they want to hear more about it, where should we send them? Ted Faneuff 00:30:23 Yeah, you can go to, appeal io forward slash Joe. we’ll have some information there for everybody. You know my email. I’ll put it out there. I’m. I have an open door policy. Like as a head of clinical operations, I really want to talk to the therapists that were that were helping and benefiting. But anybody can email me at Ted at Appeal bio. I’m more than happy to to kind of answer any questions that they might have. Joe Sanok 00:30:46 Are so awesome. And thanks so much also for giving 25% off of the first two months with that promo code. Joe. Joe Sanok 00:30:52 So uphill I o forward slash Joe. Ted, thank you so much for being on the practice of the Practice podcast. Ted Faneuff 00:30:58 My pleasure Joe, thanks for having me. Joe Sanok 00:31:06 And boy, at the end there, when Ted was listing off all the potential for, like risk in audits and, you know, like different tools and things like that. It’s funny, I tend to think of myself as a pretty, like, forward thinker. But then there’s times where I was just like, well, oh my gosh, like, what’s the therapist role going to be then? But then it’s like when you think about other technologies, like think about encyclopedia salespeople. when they if they heard about the internet, they’d be like, oh my gosh, we’re going out of business. And they did, you know, like like my family had encyclopedias at the house and that’s no longer needed, nor a good use of shelf space. you know, famously, Henry Ford said, if I asked the people what they wanted, they would have said a faster carriage. Joe Sanok 00:31:52 and there’s always this push and pull of early adopters in technology, that then sought out a lot of the kinks and then kind of the first wave of people, which is where I think we’re kind of starting to dip our toes into right now. and then when a lot of those kind of kinks and best practices and a lot of the, you know, early, you know, companies sometimes shake themselves out and the better ones hopefully rise to the top. That wasn’t true with VHS and beta. Beta, from what I’ve saw, was actually a better, product, even though VHS, you know, was more of marketable and whatever reason. but, you know, we see then that natural where in the middle we start to see it really take off. And I love Ted’s call to action at the end to be a part of this. you know, I interviewed, David from vital, I the the mindfulness and meditation AI where you can literally say, hey, I need a meditation for myself. I’m going through a divorce and co-parenting issues and this and that, and it makes an eye meditation for you. Joe Sanok 00:32:54 I’ve personally found things like that that are more customizable, to be really helpful for me. and it makes me think, like, what am I doing that could also maybe be a part of this conversation. So I hope this inspires you. I hope also, if you have ideas but you’re not sure where to turn, you’ll reach out to our team. You’ll reach out to other, you know, freelancers out there that help with AI development. Try something out. The world needs your amazing brain, to help this conversation. And I’m so glad that Ted and I drove that home at the end there. also, we have some great things coming up here. So, we’ve got Level Up week coming up in mid September. It’s going to be four days, four webinars a day. We’ve got panels, we’ve got experts. You can read more over at practice of the practice.com/level up and you’ll get all the emails about what amazing free webinars are coming up during September. And then also, I am going to be the closing keynote, at the Mental Health Marketing Conference down by, Nashville, Tennessee, down in Franklin. Joe Sanok 00:33:58 so MH marketing. Org if you use, promo code Joe at checkout, they’ll give you, I think it’s 25% off your ticket. So, we are joining them as well. So if you want to hang out in person or virtually, make sure you sign up for those events. And we could not do the show without our amazing sponsors. And today, our sponsor is Therapy Notes. Therapy notes is the best electronic health record out there. They will help you transition from whatever EHR you’re using now that you’re frustrated with. I was just talking with one of my consulting clients about how with one of these other EHRs, that for them to give their clinical director access to it, they actually have to get full access to everything, all the numbers, all the everything. Like there’s not different roles within it. therapy notes, does it? So that you are better able to manage your team, you’re better able to see what’s going on. they have live support that can help you head on over to therapy notes.com. Joe Sanok 00:34:52 Use promo code Joe at checkout to get a few months for free. And thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have an amazing day. I’ll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band silence Sexy for that intro music. 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