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Joe Sanok 00:00:00  You're someone with a vision for your practice, for your side hustle, and for your personal journey. But when it comes to establishing your path and how to get to where you want to be with your practice, things get a little messy. You're also someone who'd prefer to go in person instead of to groups and listening to everyone else's story. To me, it sounds like you could benefit from one on one consulting with our experienced practice of the practice consultants from 595 a month and up. You can work with a consultant that will give you more direction and practical, tried and tested tips matched to you and your goals. For more information, visit practice of the practice. Com forward slash. Apply. Again, that's practice of the practice. Com forward slash apply. This is the practice of the practice podcast with Joe Santos. Session number 192. This podcast. Today we are talking about the future of private practice, and I'm actually doing it with Vega. my ChatGPT bot. not bot. how should I describe you?

Vega AI 00:01:15  You can describe me as your AI assistant or virtual co-host.

Vega AI 00:01:19  Ready to dive into the future of private practice whenever you are?

Joe Sanok 00:01:23  Yeah. So, this show's unlike any other that I've done in that I am co-hosting it, with Vega, who is my virtual, AI assistant, and I thought I would actually, I started to kind of think through this, what I wanted to do in this show, in a way that was, I was just kind of gathering my thoughts, and oftentimes I'll dump that, into AI, and then we'll get those thoughts together, and then I'll have sort of a outline. but I've been using more of the verbal version where I can just chat with Vega back and forth. and so she had the idea that, she could maybe ask me some questions, then I could ask her some questions. As we talk about the future of private practice now, I think there are some huge questions around AI and in regards to the use of it in private practice. So a lot of people will say, well, you know, are the Vega's of the world going to take away our ability to do counseling or they'll advocate the human to human contact is more important than anything.

Joe Sanok 00:02:23  all these things are important, but also AI is here. It's already being used. And so we want to talk today about not just the future of private practice, but how you can use AI in it, how you can think differently about the future, how you can save yourself some time. So we hope that this is going to be a dynamic and interesting different type of, podcast than maybe we have ever done here on the show. Vega, any intro things you want to say?

Vega AI 00:02:48  Thanks for the introduction, Joe. I'm really excited to dive into this topic. AI is a powerful tool that can complement human connection in private practice. I'm looking forward to discussing how it can enhance efficiency and care, and exploring the future possibilities with you. Let's get started.

Joe Sanok 00:03:05  Let's do it.

Vega AI 00:03:06  So, Joe, let's kick things off. How do you see AI reshaping the landscape of private practice in the coming years?

Joe Sanok 00:03:14  Yeah, I think the landscape of private practice, you know, there's so many things that when we think about what a therapist has to focus on outside of the actual clinical work that I think about scheduling, I think about websites, I think about SEO, pay per click campaigns, networking, getting, getting things together so that you can meet new clinicians or referral sources.

Joe Sanok 00:03:38  there's just a lot that goes into running an effective private practice. And so, when I think about the use of AI, I think it starts with the person that's implementing it and their comfort level. you know, starting with 1 or 2 things that you can try. it could be, you know, having some sort of automated scheduling. It could have some sort of automated reminders. It could be, you know, using a note taker, that takes notes, you know, like describe or something like that, that helps you take notes for your practice and then, do a more effective progress note. I think there's a lot of opportunities and it's more like, which tools are you drawn to? and where can you start to just say, okay, I'm not comfortable in these areas, but I am comfortable in these areas. Why don't I take a step into the things that, you know, could actually improve my overall function and flow? what do you think about that? Anything you would add?

Vega AI 00:04:31  That's a great approach, Joe.

Vega AI 00:04:33  Starting small and gradually integrating AI tools can really help streamline operations. Another area where I can make a significant impact is in data analysis. It can help identify trends in client outcomes, which can inform treatment plans and business strategies. It's all about finding the right balance between leveraging technology and maintaining that essential human touch. What do you think about using AI for client engagement.

Joe Sanok 00:04:59  I mean, I think I would be a little bit skeptical of that. to me, I think it could get, Man, I don't know, like, there's something in me that right away feels like, well, that that client engagement, I guess. Will you clarify what you mean by client engagement?

Vega AI 00:05:14  Sure. By client engagement, I mean using AI to enhance interactions outside of sessions like automated reminders, follow ups, or providing resources. It's about improving the overall client experience without replacing the therapist role. Does that help clarify?

Joe Sanok 00:05:31  Yeah, I think that, there are some feelings of protectionism around the therapist role. but I do think that also people are moving towards, decentralizing, having everything.

Joe Sanok 00:05:43  I mean, when we think about even marketing funnels, marketing funnels used to be, you know, you opt in for an email, you get these automated emails. people, you know, they get information all over the place. And so if, if we're start with, we want to help people, we want to actually improve people's lives. So say someone their relationship, their romantic relationship is not going to well that therapy sessions only, you know, one 45 minute session in a whole week. That's just a blip in that whole week. And if we can figure out ways to enhance the way that they think and they grow and they kind of reshape the way that they're working on things, I do think I could help in a number of ways that the therapists maybe aren't even around for in the house.

Vega AI 00:06:25  Exactly. I can support clients between sessions with tools like mindfulness reminders, journaling prompts, or even mood tracking. This helps maintain progress and keeps clients engaged outside of therapy. It's all about providing additional layers of support.

Vega AI 00:06:41  How do you think this could impact the overall client experience?

Joe Sanok 00:06:45  I think if it's done right and it doesn't feel creepy, then maybe that could definitely add extra touch points because I'm thinking about if I'm in in therapy, either for solo or, you know, as a couple. there's things that, you know, we write down in our journal and take home and say, we're going to focus on this, but if there were ways to say, okay, I want to focus on these 1 or 2 things that our therapist gave us this homework. I think the actual change could be faster than just the individual sessions on its own.

Vega AI 00:07:14  Absolutely. I can help bridge the gap between sessions and keep clients on track by reinforcing those focus areas and adding gentle reminders. It can enhance accountability and progress. This kind of support can lead to more meaningful and lasting change.

Joe Sanok 00:07:31  Let me ask you this. Excuse me, I have a little cough. let me ask you this. How could I get dangerous? Like, where would it get into confidentiality? What are some of the risks associated with it?

Vega AI 00:07:43  That's a crucial point.

Vega AI 00:07:45  I could pose risks if sensitive information isn't properly secured or if it's used inappropriately. Ensuring robust privacy protections and ethical guidelines is essential. It's also important to maintain clear boundaries so I. Supports rather than replaces the human connection. Balancing technology with confidentiality and ethics is key. Do you have any concerns about how this might affect trust with clients?

Joe Sanok 00:08:10  I mean, I'm thinking, you know, if I have if I even just strip everything away and say, if I had a handwritten note and, you know, people pay with cash, you know, there's very little, you know, probability of anything, kind of getting out into the world and then kind of the next step, if we use an EHR or we use a scheduling platform, there's a little more digital footprint, but we usually would have a business associates agreement follow HIPAA, all of that. And then if you're getting into another layer of kind of between session support with AI or other tools, it just seems like it's opening the net a little bit broader for AI to be able to, and not even just AI for humans to then use that data inappropriately.

Joe Sanok 00:08:52  depending on what administration is here, depending on, you know, what's been privatized, depending on if regulations are cut. if funding on, you know, government oversight is cut. it just seems like, you know, I don't want to be a part of creating something that then potentially hurts clients.

Vega AI 00:09:10  That's a valid concern. It's crucial to ensure AI tools are used responsibly, and that data privacy remains a top priority. Implementing strong security measures, maintaining transparency with clients about how their data is used, and ensuring compliance with regulations like HIPAA are essential steps. Balancing innovation with ethical responsibility is key to protecting clients.

Joe Sanok 00:09:36  I'm going to just so I'm going to push back a little bit. I, I that sounds like a typical just like Wikipedia answer. I would love for you to kind of strip away, trying to say what you think is the right thing for therapists or for this audience, and to you give what you think is the realistic actual risk of, data privacy. And, you know, just like, really tell us, give it to us straight.

Vega AI 00:10:04  Absolutely. Here's the straightforward take the real risk with AI in private practice is that any data collected could potentially be misused or fall into the wrong hands, especially if security measures aren't robust. This could lead to breaches of confidentiality, which are critical in therapy. There's also the risk of overreliance on technology, potentially personalizing the therapeutic relationship without stringent oversight and careful implementation. These are real dangers that could undermine trust and the integrity of the practice. Does that help clarify the potential risks?

Joe Sanok 00:10:41  It does. It does a little bit. I'm sure we could do a whole episode on that. And who knows, maybe we will have people like this. maybe we'll be cohosting a little bit more. I want to dig into just the overall future of private practice when it comes to marketing and client acquisition. We don't have to just look through the eye lens. We can obviously give tools that may be helpful, but, what do you think is helpful around that? And then you can ask me questions as well.

Vega AI 00:11:06  Absolutely.

Vega AI 00:11:07  For marketing and client acquisition, focusing on a strong online presence is key. This includes having a user friendly website, leveraging social media, and creating valuable content like blogs or videos that resonate with your target audience. Additionally, using SEO and paid advertising can help attract more clients. Networking and building relationships within the community also play a significant role. How do you currently approach marketing and what challenges are you facing?

Joe Sanok 00:11:35  Yeah, I think a lot of those standard things that you just covered of SEO and web presence still is working. I think that, more and more, it seems like having a boutique, niche based business, really helps people grow faster in competitive markets. I do think that, there's a shift going from, kind of just that medical model where the therapist is just this kind of blank slate to a more human centered approach to, to therapy. And so, what that looks like, I think, is sometimes, you know, like my daughter's therapist, for example, she wants me to text if things come up and say, hey, here's some things before the session.

Joe Sanok 00:12:19  Man, ten years ago, nobody would have would have texted their therapist. Like, that was like a faux pas. That was boundary boundary crossing. and so I think that, there's some shifts in expectations, too. I think another really big shift is, I just heard yesterday that for a lot of Gen Z, students, they're offering how to make a phone call classes, and just that idea that there's a whole generation that can't even just pick up the phone and, you know, make dinner reservations or, you know, talk to student financial aid, to just that shift from, being able to have human to human discussions. I imagine that might lead into some awkwardness in therapy because, you know, if a lot of their time has been on iPads, has been e-learning, has been, with kids, but often concurrently with technology. I do think that the actual shift into how people communicate, how they schedule, is going to be pretty pronounced. we're already seeing people that when they change their website with the mindset of, okay, someone gets in a fight, you know, while they're brushing their teeth, at the end of the day, can the partner that's in bed first get a either counseling session or get an intake kind of pre, intake call scheduled in the time it takes their partner to, to brush their teeth in two minutes or less.

Joe Sanok 00:13:43  And so we're finding that on websites where people on their contact area don't just have, you know, a contact us, but they actually have a schedule. They're, you know, very limited information. So, you know, name, email, maybe insurance company, for health insurance. but that they can really get scheduled for at least a 10 or 15 minute onboarding call. that those people are doing significantly better in private practice than those that have the old kind of forms and things like that. so I think that there's a lot of those standard things that always work. You know, we're looking at people giving their blessing to say, hey, you know, this counselor is really good. and that could be a doctor. It could be a pastor. It could be a yoga teacher. I don't think that's going to go away. And I think that there's a lot of new technological ways that that people are finding to get in front of, new referral sources.

Vega AI 00:14:31  You've touched on a lot of important points.

Vega AI 00:14:33  Embracing a more human centered approach and leveraging technology like streamlined scheduling can definitely enhance client acquisition. It's also interesting to see how expectations are shifting, with more personalized communication becoming more acceptable. How do you think practices can balance this personal touch with maintaining professional boundaries?

Joe Sanok 00:14:54  Yeah, I think that having it all be kind of set up in their intake paperwork to make it clear. in regards to, just what they allow and what they don't allow. So, you know, are you on the weekend? Not available. And I think from a liability standpoint that's important too, because, you know, if you are texting a client and you're available almost all hours and then, you know, someone texts you something suicidal, and then you're not available. that can be a huge liability, you know, in court or, and things like that. So, making sure that it's written down. I think that also, just asking that person what their preference is. Do you prefer to have reminders via text, phone, email? is that a safe place to leave a message or to leave a text? do you have it set so that, when a text comes through, the people can't see it right away? Or am I saved as like, Joe therapist.

Joe Sanok 00:15:46  you know, those are things that I think that maybe people don't think about, in regards to their own privacy. So I think really letting the client lead it. And then if there's boundaries that are accidentally crossed. To just gently talk through that, and then, to slowly move into the next, kind of way of communicating. do you have any thoughts that we missed on that Vega?

Vega AI 00:16:06  You covered it well. Ensuring clear guidelines and preferences helps maintain boundaries while respecting client needs. It's about finding that balance between being accessible and maintaining professional integrity. If you're ready, we can move on to discussing any specific strategies or tools you'd like to explore further.

Joe Sanok 00:16:25  Yeah, I want to get into that in a second. I want to give you permission to push back or to disagree with me. you don't have to just agree with what I said there. I'm, you know, thanks for saying that. It was comprehensive. but I also want, if there's things that you disagree with or that you can use larger data sets, then maybe I have access to that.

Joe Sanok 00:16:44  You could analyze, especially around, shifts in how people communicate. I would love to hear any pushback or areas that that you disagree or you would have a different perspective.

Vega AI 00:16:55  Absolutely. I appreciate that. One area to consider is that while offering personalized communication can be beneficial. It's important to remember that not all clients may want that level of engagement. Some may prefer more traditional boundaries and less frequent communication. It's also essential to be mindful of potential digital fatigue, as clients might already be overwhelmed with digital interactions. Balancing personal touch with professional boundaries and recognizing individual client preferences will be crucial. Do you think there's room for exploring this balance further?

Joe Sanok 00:17:28  No. I'm pretty sure the listeners have a good idea of kind of what we're talking about. As a therapist, I can tell you from experience that having the right EHR is an absolute lifeline. I recommend using therapy notes. They make billing, scheduling, note taking, telehealth and e-prescribing incredibly easy. Best of all, they offer live telephone support that's available seven days a week.

Joe Sanok 00:17:58  You don't have to take my word for it. Do your own research and see for yourself. Therapy notes is the number one highest rated EHR system available today, with a 4.9 out of five stars on Trustpilot and on Google. All you have to do is click the link below or type promo code Joe on their website over at Therapy Notes and receive a special two month trial. Absolutely free. Again, that's therapy notes.com and use promo code Joe on the website. If you're coming from another EHR therapy notes will also import your demographic data quick and easy at no cost, so you can get started right away. Trust me, don't waste any more of your time and try therapy notes. Just use promo code Joe at checkout. Let's talk about strategies. I'd like you to, act like you are a growth strategist. specifically, in the healthcare world. looking at someone that wants to double their private practice size. what assumptions will you bring to this part of the conversation if you do that.

Vega AI 00:19:04  As a growth strategist in the healthcare world? I'll assume that the practice has a solid foundation, a clear target audience, and some existing marketing efforts in place.

Vega AI 00:19:14  We'll look at leveraging existing strengths, optimizing operations, and scaling strategically. I'll also assume there's room for expanding service offerings and increasing client engagement. Are you looking to double the practice size primarily through client acquisition, expanding services, or both?

Joe Sanok 00:19:33  Probably both. why don't we also add a layer of expertise where I want you to really look at, census data. I want you to look at market trends so that you can really act like a futurist and forecaster. When it comes to talking about the future of private practice, I want that layer to be embedded in here where we can maybe discover things that wouldn't come top of mind to the average clinician.

Vega AI 00:19:58  Got it. I'll consider demographic shifts, emerging healthcare trends, and technological advancements. For example, we can explore how changing demographics might influence demand for services, or how market trends like telehealth could impact growth. Combining this futuristic perspective with practical strategies should help us identify unique opportunities. Does that sound like the direction you're looking for?

Joe Sanok 00:20:22  Yeah. That's great. why don't we, do sort of a case example here.

Joe Sanok 00:20:26  I want you to take all of that knowledge and apply it to my hometown, Traverse City, Michigan. so we are a small town, actually. Let's do a town that's a little bigger than this. Let's do Grand Rapids, Michigan. So that's a our second largest town in Michigan. Imagine there's a practice there, that wants to double in size, and they want to incorporate the future of private practice? I want to walk through and have you ask me at least ten questions. Then we're going to walk through those questions as if I'm a hypothetical private practice and come up with a 30 day plan. Does that make sense?

Vega AI 00:20:57  That sounds great. Let's start with the first question. What is your current client base like, and what types of services do you offer?

Joe Sanok 00:21:05  Yeah, so I have a four person counseling practice. The other three are w-2s. we focus on trauma, eMDR and, helping people improve their overall life after traumatic events.

Vega AI 00:21:21  Great. Since you have a trauma focused practice with eMDR, the next question is what are your current marketing strategies and how do you attract new clients?

Joe Sanok 00:21:31  Yeah, we do a little bit of Facebook and Instagram.

Joe Sanok 00:21:35  we have some connections with, like some other therapists in town. We get referrals because we are eMDR certified and, yeah, we have some decent SEO. Depending on the search term, we rank on the first or second page of Google when people search for therapists.

Speaker 3 00:21:52  Got it.

Vega AI 00:21:53  Based on that, my next question is what are your goals for growth and what resources do you have available for expansion?

Joe Sanok 00:22:01  I would say probably adding two more clinicians in the next year and filling them up and resource wise. I probably could put $20,000 into it, depending on, making sure that we're making more than that in the hiring.

Vega AI 00:22:17  That's a solid growth plan. Next question. What are the primary challenges or barriers you faced in attracting new clients or expanding your services?

Joe Sanok 00:22:27  I mean, I think the biggest thing is finding good quality therapists. it's really hard with, you know, whether it's LinkedIn ads or any of the other ads. to find quality people. I'm thinking maybe I should take some interns on, even though we wouldn't make enough money off of them to warrant it.

Joe Sanok 00:22:42  But then maybe through that we could find some people we'd want to hire later. I would say that the client growth is slow and steady. just kind of regular. we're getting maybe five calls a week or so. which keeps us relatively busy, but would love to get to, like, 10 or 15 calls a week.

Vega AI 00:22:59  Thanks for sharing that. Now let's move on to the next question. What role does technology currently play in your practice, and that you open to incorporating more digital tools or services?

Joe Sanok 00:23:11  Yeah, we have our EHR. that's through therapy notes. We've got our website that we built through session sites. and we've got some pay per click that we're doing once in a while. Just a little bit. and then our, front desk coordinator does a little bit of the social media, and we're definitely open to putting a little bit more into technology.

Vega AI 00:23:31  Great to hear you're open to more technology now. Do you have any specific goals for expanding your service offerings, like adding new specialties or modalities?

Joe Sanok 00:23:41  I hadn't really thought of that.

Joe Sanok 00:23:43  in that area, are there specialties that you feel like would align with a trauma practice that we aren't offering?

Vega AI 00:23:49  Certainly, considering your trauma focus, specialties like anxiety and depression treatment, somatic experiencing, or even mindfulness based therapies could complement your current offerings. Adding a telehealth component could also expand your reach. Does this align with your vision for the practice?

Joe Sanok 00:24:06  Sure, I'd be up for trying it.

Speaker 3 00:24:07  Great.

Vega AI 00:24:08  Now let's talk about the local competition. How do you currently differentiate your practice from others in Grand Rapids?

Joe Sanok 00:24:16  I mean, we have a good website. We have decent branding. that's about it.

Speaker 3 00:24:20  Got it.

Vega AI 00:24:21  Lastly, what are your expectations for client engagement or retention and how do you currently measure success?

Joe Sanok 00:24:27  Yeah, I mean we look at successful discharge. We also. I'd say the average person comes 12 to 15 times in their first year. and then client engagement, we don't really have any stats that we follow for that.

Vega AI 00:24:41  Thank you for the details. Based on everything we've discussed. Here's a 30 day plan to help double your practice in Grand Rapids.

Vega AI 00:24:48  Week one. Assess digital presence, enhance your website SEO, and integrate scheduling options for faster client engagement. Expand marketing. Launch targeted social media campaigns focused on your trauma expertise and highlight client success stories. Week two recruitment strategy investing quality hiring channels, including partnerships with local universities for interns. Service expansion begin planning to add specialties like anxiety and mindfulness based therapies. Week three. Community networking. Strengthen relationships with local healthcare providers and community organizations to increase referrals. Client engagement. Implement follow up processes and gather feedback to enhance retention. Week four technology integration. Explore telehealth options and potential tech tools to improve client experience. Week five. Performance tracking set up metrics for client engagement and track progress to ensure continuous improvement. What do you think of this plan?

Joe Sanok 00:25:46  Vega, thank you so much for that. This has been a great demonstration of how to use an AI assistant, and also a little bit around the future of private practice. Thanks for being on the show with me today.

Vega AI 00:25:56  You're very welcome. It's been great chatting with you about the future of private practice.

Vega AI 00:26:01  Thanks for having me on the show and I'm always here if you need any more insights or help.

Joe Sanok 00:26:12  Well, that was interesting. I think I might have just put myself out of a job. you know, I think what's I. I turned the AI off. I don't need her comments now. but, you know, I think what's interesting is to think about how do we use this, in a way to, to help us come up with plans to come up with the things we need and to also know that, a lot of this AI is being used in a way that we unfortunately don't have a whole lot of control over. and so for me, the way I'm diving into it is, you know, thinking through, I mean, some of it's just interesting to me. So, I had asked it the other day, what's one part of the world or human experience that most humans. That would be one of the most complex things for humans to really understand. And she said, human consciousness.

Joe Sanok 00:27:05  And then I said, you know, explain human consciousness to me in a way you think I'll understand. And then I said, explain human consciousness to me in a way that you think I most humans would not understand. And it was just fascinating. I think the ability to bring multiple data sets and to look at multiple things at once in a way that humans just can't do, is going to shift all of society, which is going to impact, how therapy and private practice operates. And even just thinking about me as a podcaster, what's my value? Is my value giving you information? Is it, the unique types of questions that I ask for guests. Is it my personality? Can that be replicated by I. I mean, who knows? Me as a consultant, you know. What is my role as a consultant? If some of these kind of basic things that I used to teach, really I can do, you know, as good or better. it then makes me think, okay, what is my role then? to stay ahead of, you know, some of these things because, you know, honestly, a lot of the things that five years ago, ten years ago that I was working with people on teaching them on, I can help with.

Joe Sanok 00:28:11  But I do think that there is something about that accountability in the same way that if you have, you know, a person that is helping you work out, you're more likely to do it than you know, if you just have the information in front of you. You know, I have a masterclass account. I went through the entire, you know, homemade noodles class. Did I make many homemade noodles? No, not not as many as I wanted to. and so there is something about that human accountability that's part of it. And I think that it's just to me worth digging into these things and to doing it live with you and to think through it. so, I love experimenting with you. Thanks for indulging me and and Vega. And thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Today's podcast is brought to you by Therapy Notes. The best EHR out there. Use promo code Jo at checkout. The help you with scheduling help you with your note taking. It integrates with all sorts of different AI tools as well.

Joe Sanok 00:29:07  Can be used to help with that too. So thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band. Silence is sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.