The Principles of Office Design with Alison Pidgeon | GP 139

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A photo of Alison Pidgeon, LPC is captured. She is the owner of Move Forward Counseling, a group practice in Lancaster, PA and she runs a virtual assistant company, Move Forward Virtual Assistants. Alison is featured on the Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

How is the atmosphere within your office? Do you love your therapist chair? Is it possible to affordably and elegantly furnish your office space?

In this podcast episode, LaToya Smith speaks about the principles of office design with Alison Pidgeon.

Podcast Sponsor: Brighter Vision

An image of Brighter Vision Web Solutions is featured as the sponsor on Faith in Practice Podcast, a therapist podcast. Brighter Vision builds all in one websites for therapists.

It’s that time of year again!

My friends over at Brighter Vision are once again kicking off the fall season with a month-long digital conference event they call ‘Fall Into Cash’.

For the entire month of September, they’ll be teaming up with the top brands, consultants, and coaches in the mental health industry to provide you with the best advice, tools, content, podcasts, and giveaways; all centered around one main goal – helping you grow your practice and make more money.

Plus, in celebration of the 6th anniversary of ‘Fall Into Cash’, they’re also offering a very special discount exclusively for Practice of the Practice listeners.

From now until the end of the month, they’re offering $20/month off of any website service plan for your whole first year plus no signup fees – that’s a savings of over $200!

For more information and to take advantage of this great offer, head on over to brightervision.com/joe.

Meet Alison Pidgeon

A photo of Alison Pidgeon, LPC is captured. She is the owner of Move Forward Counseling, a group practice in Lancaster, PA and she runs a virtual assistant company, Move Forward Virtual Assistants. Alison is featured on the Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

Alison Pidgeon, LPC is the owner of Move Forward Counseling, a group practice in Lancaster, PA and she founded and sold a virtual assistant company, Move Forward Virtual Assistants.

She has helped over 70 therapist entrepreneurs start and grow their businesses, through mastermind groups and individual consulting.

Visit Alison’s website, and connect on FacebookInstagram, and LinkedIn. See also, Thera-Suite.

In This Podcast

  • The process of selling a company
  • Decorating your office with a smaller budget
  • Color in your practice

The process of selling a company

Alison has started and sold numerous businesses. Ultimately, each decision runs on a system. For selling a business, you may: 

  • Hire a business broker that evaluates the business and tells you how much they think it is worth
  • Reach out to any people privately, especially if it’s a niche business
  • Make a posting on a business buy-sell website
  • Continue word-of-mouth networking
  • Once you find a suitable buyer, let them see the ins and outs of the business
  • Complete any paperwork and hand the processes over

[Lastly] they were able to consult with me over the first 60 days if they needed help … and yes, that was about it.

Alison Pidgeon

This process can take anywhere from a couple of months to a year.

Decorating your office with a smaller budget

On Thera-Suite, there are design inspiration boards that are categorized from colors to office spaces to aesthetics and more. One of them is based on budget.

It’ll tell you, “If you only have less than $2500 to spend, these are all the boards that you could pick from”, and then there [are] tiers to the budget.

Alison Pidgeon

Some companies sell more affordable furniture that you can purchase, especially if you are just starting and need a handful of nice things to make the space work so that you can start seeing clients.

Color in your practice

Although it seems superficial, the way that you handle color in your practice is important.

From the color on the wall to the color in your logo and branding, it creates an impression with your clients and can either help them to come back or push them away.

Consider:

  • Neutral colors and off-white
  • Blues
  • Greens
  • Pastel colors
  • Earth tones
  • Soft and warm colors
  • Be careful with bright pops of color

[With bright colors] the room is very energizing but that’s not what you want [from] a therapy office.

Alison Pidgeon

Useful links mentioned in this episode:

  • From now until the end of the month, Brighter Vision is offering $20/month off of any website service plan for your whole first year plus no signup fees – that’s a savings of over $200! For more information and to take advantage of this great offer, head on over to brightervision.com/joe.
  • Visit Alison’s website, and connect on FacebookInstagram, and LinkedIn. See also, Thera-Suite.

Check out these additional resources:

Meet LaToya Smith

An image of LaToya Smith is captured. She is a consultant with Practice of the Practice and the owner of LCS Counseling. LaToya is featured on the Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

LaToya is a consultant with Practice of the Practice and the owner of LCS Counseling and Consulting Agency in Fortworth Texas. She firmly believes that people don’t have to remain stuck in their pain or the place they became wounded. In addition to this, LaToya encourages her clients to be active in their treatment and work towards their desired outcome.

She has also launched Strong Witness which is a platform designed to connect, transform, and heal communities through the power of storytelling.

Visit LaToya’s website. Connect with her on FacebookInstagramStrong Witness Instagram, and Twitter.

Apply to work with LaToya.

Email her at [email protected]

Podcast Transcription

[LATOYA SMITH] The Grow A Group Practice Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice Network, a network of podcast seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like the Practice of the Practice podcast, go to www.practiceofthepractice.com/network. You are listening to the Grow A Group Practice podcast, a podcast focused on helping people start, grow, and scale a group practice. Each week you’ll hear topics that are relevant to group practice owners. I’m LaToya Smith, a practice owner, and I love hearing about people’s stories and real-life experiences. So let’s get started. Welcome to the Grow A Group Practice Podcast. I’m your host for season two, LaToya Smith. Today I have a guest that I am certain that everybody already knows. You know her because she’s the founder of this podcast. So I’m excited to have her on, like I have a big time VIP, celebrity guest, so I’m excited for today. Alison Pidgeon, thank you so much for being a part of this show. [ALISON PIDGEON] Oh, thank you for inviting me. That was such a nice introduction. [LATOYA] This is a big deal so I’m excited. I believe everybody knows you, but just in case they don’t, if you just want to do like a brief introduction of who you are, that’ll be great. [ALISON] Sure. I’m Alison Pidgeon, I’m a licensed professional counselor. In 2015, I started a group practice called Move Forward Counseling here in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where I live and just loved everything to do with building the business and started hiring people. We now have 46 employees. Over the course of the last seven years, I’ve done business consulting, excuse me, through Practice of the Practice, I started a virtual assistant company, which I’ve since sold and I started a website called TheraSuite, which I think we’ll talk about in a little bit. I also got into real estate investing, so I own one of the offices for the counseling practice. [LATOYA] Ooh, that’s a lot of good stuff. Then when you were just talking, I know you said seven years, but when you think 2015, I remember being younger and thinking years ahead, and it might as well have been like a billion years. But then you were older years it’s just like, ooh, they go by so fast. But you did this in 2015. You have accomplished so much since then. Yes, that’s — [ALISON] Yes, thank you. [LATOYA] Yes, if I had the sound effects, I’d push some buttons, like a round of applause but that’s really a big deal, like 46 employees. I know we’re going to get to there, sweet, I want to talk about that in a second but just even talking about where you started to where you are now, is this what you saw in growing? Is this the vision you always had? [ALISON] No, not at all. I thought like I’ll get to 10 or 12 therapists in the group practice, and then I’ll be making $100,000 a year, and then like, my life will be set. Then I realized like, oh, this is great, I love this and I could just keep going because we’re creating such a positive impact on the community. I also had opportunities to grow my income as well, which having three kids and a household and all of that, $100,000 sounds like a lot of money, but actually didn’t go very far. So yes, so I just, after that, I just kept growing. Now it’s even to the point where I’m like, where am I going to stop? I’m not really sure. I think I’m going to grow the business to $5 million a year, and then I’m going to take a pause and just reassess if I want to keep going or not. [LATOYA] Woo, that’s a good feeling then. $5 million, that’s a good feeling. But so let’s talk about this because I know you started this podcast, which, you started so many things, which I think are absolutely amazing. This podcast, like I said, I’m just, I’m here for season two but then you transitioned out of that. So I think a lot of what we see, what I see and what you do, that you can have a big vision and grow, but it’s okay to transition out of it. How does that feel for you to start it and then have it be your thing and the little things you’re saying, okay, it’s time for me to step away? Because sometimes we have a hard time getting started and then we have a hard time stepping away. You seem to have the rhythm of both. [ALISON] I think that, I don’t think it’s not hard. It still is hard, but I feel confident that that’s the right direction to go in. So I’m able to actually do it, if that makes sense. Like there were so many great things about what I was doing with business consulting and even like with the VA company, it was very hard to walk away from that but I just felt like I’m the person who will take on a challenge and then I feel like, okay, I’ve mastered this and then I want to move on to the next challenge. So I think for that reason, it’s still a mixed bag of emotions, but I think it’s easier because then I get excited about the next challenge and I want to take on the next thing. [LATOYA] I like how you worded that, so it’s the idea of just finding something else that challenges you, not that you don’t love what you’re pivoting from. [ALISON] Right [LATOYA] It’s just, yes, I need something else, which is great. I was just talking to somebody yesterday like, you just got to get started. Like take the first step, take the first step. I love what you said, like, listen, it’s not like I have a hard time stepping away, but what I also hear you saying, and you correct me if I’m wrong, there’s also, is there some fear there too, like, some man is this going to, is this going to work? Is this going to be too big? Or you like, you lean into that? [ALISON] Yes, so I actually realized, I don’t know in the past few months, like I have no fear when it comes to business. Like after going through the pandemic and just the past seven years of having a business and having that many employees, I feel like I’ve been through everything. So it’s just like at the point now I’m just like, if something else bad happens, I can handle it. Like I know I can because I’ve been through all these really difficult things and we’ve persevered and pivoted and all of that. So yes, I don’t, no, I don’t have any fear about that. [LATOYA] That’s a good feeling. [ALISON] It it [LATOYA] That’s a really good feeling. It’s a good place to be in. You’re like this quiet presence that’s like a big roar. You remind me of those athletes you hear. They like, yes, I’ve been doing this for a while. I’m ready to move on to my next season, this next challenge. That’s a good feeling. I like it. It’s motivating to hear these levels that you’ve gone up. So what does it look like? What’s the process of selling a company? You sold the VA company, what is that process like? [ALISON] So I hired a business broker. He was able to do evaluation of the business, so basically look at a bunch of different factors and tell you how much he thinks it’s worth. Then I just reached out to people privately at first to see if they would be interested because it’s such a niche business that I knew it’s not like buying a restaurant. It’s something that a lot of people don’t even understand what it is. I shopped it around a little bit, there was some interest, but nothing happened with it. So then we actually posted it on like a business buy, sell website that got some interest and then through word of mouth networking, we found these two women who were running like a general VA company who were interested. We sort of, all the people who express interest, we liked them the best so we went under contract with them and then they’re able to see any and all of the information about the company they want. They can see all the financials, they can ask any questions they want, it’s basically like you’re cracking open the safe full of all of your business processes and secrets and all of that. Then you, yes, go to, if they decide they want to buy you go to settlement, you sign the papers. That was all done electronically because they’re in a different state. Then it was just like a process of like handing things over to them and then they were able to consult with me over the first 60 days if they needed help, which they didn’t actually need that much help. Yes, that was about it. [LATOYA] So it was, that whole process took how long from the time, like I think I’m going to sell to the time it was like final? [ALISON] 10 months. [LATOYA] So in that time of 10 months, when did the idea of TheraSuite drop in your mind? When did you see that vision? [ALISON] Oh, I started that way before I put the VA company up for sale. I think I started that in maybe in the spring or the winter of 2021. So what was great about that was that really the whole thing has just built, it just needed a website built out and I hired a website developer to do that. So it wasn’t a whole lot of work on my end while the website was being built. [LATOYA] All right. Because in my mind, your mind is all these moving pieces of like big ideas and things are happening and one moves out the way another one comes. I want to transition to talking about TheraSuite, your newest business, unless you got another one I don’t know about, which I haven’t been introduced to yet. I’m sure you do, but the newest one we know about right. Share with the audience, like I was looking through looking through Instagram and I’m like, man, I really like this TheraSuite. I like this furniture, oh man, I got to get in touch with this person to get them on the podcast. I got to figure out. Then one day, because I would see in my stories and then I would see a little bit that would show up and the feed and then one day I’m scrolling through the page and I’m like, oh, Alison? I know you talked about it before and somewhere along the way I followed the page, but then it still didn’t, wasn’t two and two for me and I was like, let me just go ahead and have Alison and then see what’s up. So TheraSuite is beautiful. Tell me about the passion behind this. What made you say, okay what, this is my next one that I’m moving on to? [ALISON] I love interior design. Excuse me. I loved decorating my own therapy offices and my house and I pay a lot of attention to therapist groups online and see what they’re asking about and talking about. People are always saying like, what chair should I buy for my office? Or I’m going to get an office that’s 10 by 10 and it doesn’t have a window. How do I make it look not so dark or whatever? Just like lots of sort of interior design about therapy offices type questions. So I thought wouldn’t it be cool if people could just go to a website and get ideas. Then how we have it set up on TheraSuite is there’s boards that have everything you need to decorate and furnish an office space. So you actually, you buy the board and then you get all the links to buy all of the items and then you get them shipped to you directly and you can set up your office space. [LATOYA] That’s a, I love that actually. So I can play with the colors and the pieces first and then, wait, so you also sell furniture too or just? [ALISON] No, so everything is like from Amazon and Wayfair and Target and so you’re just, you’re getting the links to all of the items that are like, they’ve been curated and sort of pulled together. Like okay, all of these items would work together in one office space. We have them done by style so if like you like mid-century modern style, you can look at those boards. If you like more transitional style, we have those types of boards. [LATOYA] Did you do that yourself, you curated all the pieces? [ALISON] I had designers do some of them and then I did some of them myself, yes. [BRIGHTER VISION] It’s that time of year again. My friends over at Brighter Vision are once again kicking off the full season with a month-long digital conference event they call Fall Into Cash. For the entire month of September, they’ll be teaming up with the top brands, consultants and coaches in the mental health industry to provide you with the best advice, tools, content, podcasts and giveaways, all centered around one main goal, helping you grow your practice and make more money. Plus, in celebration of the sixth anniversary of Fall Into Cash that are also offering a very special discount exclusively for Practice of the Practice listeners from now until the end of the month, they’re offering $20 per month off of any website service plan for your whole first year plus no sign-up fees. That’s a saving of over $200. For more information and to take advantage of this great offer, head on over to brightervision.com/joe. [LATOYA SMITH] That’s exciting. [ALISON] Yes, it’s really fun. [LATOYA] I mean, I’m not like a decorate like that. I was actually looking for THAT yesterday for my place and I was like, man, that’s exciting. That’s a good time. Okay, so what are some, I know there’s a lot of questions that I hear people say and even questions that I had when I started and I’ll always tell the story. When I had my, started my practice, I had very little money. I found one couch. I don’t know if it was all on Facebook, that selling thing, I don’t know where it was. I drove 30, 40 minutes to get it, put it in my small SUV. People were like, it didn’t fit, I’m telling you that couch fit in that and people still don’t believe me and I did what I had to do to get that small cows back. So for people who start out and finances are small, what do you recommend? What do you piece together? [ALISON] I think that one of the things that we have updated on the website since we launched it was there’s actually like categories of the boards by budget. So it’ll tell you if you only have less than $2,500 to spend, these are all the boards that you could pick from. Then obviously there’s tiers to the budget. But I think that there’s so many companies now that sell really stylish furniture, may not be the most durable or last a long time, but it could at least get you started. Like I bought a really great upholstered armchair from Wayfair. A lot of our furniture has come from there. I think there’s certain things you can spend a little bit more money on, certain things you can save on. I will always spend a little bit more money on like any sort of upholstered furniture but then I might buy like cheaper side tables or something like that. So I guess it depends what your situation is, but yes, I think you could put together a really nice looking office, even if it is secondhand furniture or whatever just as long as you know how to put colors together. I think one of the most important things, too, is just for the office to be really like clean looking, uncluttered. People just want to come in and feel calm so you don’t need a whole bunch of stuff. You don’t have to fill up every square inch of space and even just like a fake plant could go a long way, too, if you have like an empty corner. [LATOYA] Yyou said secondhand, my friend does resale, she calls it pre-loved, pre-loved stuff. What do you feel like is the most important piece in an office space? [ALISON] The therapist chair because they’re going to be sitting in there all day. [LATOYA] I’ve seen some therapists like in my building and they got like the most, I’m thinking, man, I would fall asleep in that chair. Like it’s important because you wanted to be comfortable, but I’m like, man, I can’t be too comfortable because I don’t want to like be knocked out and then people just — [ALISON] Yes, you have to pick a chair that’s sort of like, you can’t be like leaning too far back. You have to be like sitting upright. You don’t want to look like you’re lounging. [LATOYA] Or stretch it out. But I do see that question a whole lot, like you said in in in groups on Facebook, what’s a good recommendation for a chair? I mean, I’ve seen that countless time. What about even the furniture that our clients sit in? I know that I had moved different offices recently and I asked them, I would, well, do you like that one chair? I would ask people like afterwards, the next time they came back they’re like, yes, I liked it. I liked the arms. It’s just interesting. I don’t know what made me ask those questions just to get their take [ALISON] I think the couch doesn’t have to be super comfy. They’re only going to be sitting on it for at most an hour. So if it’s a little on the firmer side, I don’t think that’s a big deal. Again, you don’t want people to feel like they’re like sinking into the couch or leaning so far back that they could take a nap. I think what’s really important is that actually the pillows that you have on the couch. It’s interesting how much people comment on the pillows, especially if they’re like textured in some way, people are like, ooh and they’re petting the pillows. And then I know some people also really like having like a throw blanket there in case they get cold or again, in case they want to have something to play with while they’re talking [LATOYA] Even footrest, like when I go to the hair salon, they put the foot stool in front of the sink when you wash your hair. It’s crazy the difference that makes of being able to put your feet up for like however many minutes as you’re sitting there getting your hair washed. [ALISON] Yes. I actually had a lot of people comment about that they wish there was a footrest there because they were shorter. I don’t, I’m 5’10, so it does not occur to me, but the shorter clients were like, “Ooh, it’d be really nice if you had a footrest.” So I should get some of those. [LATOYA] Yes, they’re cute. It makes, I never thought that it would make that big of a difference in my life, but it’s actually relaxing. [ALISON] Yes [LATOYA] Another big thing that I’ve hear people say or I know I thought about or colors, like, does the office, like how connected do we have to be to our brand colors? Does it always have to transition over to the office space, like in every room? You know what I mean? So when people do their brand colors, are they, should they automatically think the color of my office has to go with the color of my logo? [ALISON] Yes, I think in an ideal world, yes, you would have that all be consistent. So yes, I was just thinking about, I took my son to the orthodontist yesterday and they have great branding and the colors in their logo, they use the same colors in the office and then they have some cool art prints on the wall and it’s all the same colors that are in the logo. So they do a really nice job of that. For example, in my office everything is like blues and greens and neutral colors and our logo is blues and green, so can’t go wrong with that in a healthcare space. [LATOYA] What colors are the best colors, like the most soothing? [ALISON] Blues and greens. [LATOYA] Blues and greens, okay. [ALISON] Yep, yep. I tend to want to use lots of pops of color because I just really like that. It’s very energizing to me, but then you sort of are taking away from that calming element. So when I was working with a designer to help me with my offices, she had to like tell me, no, you can’t pick out a bright orange chair. Maybe we could pick out a pillow that’s more colorful but we’re going to get like very neutral colored furniture and blues and greens and just keep it that way because otherwise it’s like the room is very energizing, but that’s not what you want with a therapy office. [LATOYA] Yes, that’s a great point. Sometimes things that I don’t think, I mean I can think about myself, but I think most people don’t think about. I like bright orange and I’m going to be in this office all day, I’m going to put some bright orange in there but if somebody wants to come in and relax, it definitely does help set the mood. [ALISON] Yes. [LATOYA] You say blues and green, so you’re not talking like navy blue? [ALISON] No, I’m talking, really any shades of blue or green. I would say the only thing to watch out for is like, don’t pick up ice blue color that feels really cold but really any other shades of blues and greens is good. So yes, I just I’m opening an office in Pittsburgh in September and I’m picking out furniture right now and we picked out a dark green chair for the one office and a dark blue chair for the other office. [LATOYA] I’m loving this because green’s my favorite color and then green’s a big part of the logo. I’m doing better and I heard you too. That’s a big deal. So now you just stretch it all over the state of Pennsylvania. That’s good. Something you said a minute ago, which I think is huge, is to not have too much, so it seems like that less is more type of feel in the office space. So this is not like grandma’s house when you’re younger and everything you could ever think of is in there, you can reach for it. So this needs to be a less is more. What about like bookshelves? Are we doing all that in there and a bunch of books or even taking all that out? [ALISON] No, so we’ll have bookshelves in the office, but we’ll keep it like very paired down in terms of what’s actually on them. So we’ll leave plenty of like white space in between collections of books or there might be like a couple nice looking storage containers on one shelf, but it’s not crammed with a whole bunch of stuff because that makes people anxious when they see a lot of clutter. [LATOYA] I know you said you can go to the website, we can look at the boards, we can move pieces around. Is it the type of thing too where people can call you directly and say, “Hey, this is the picture of my office space.” Like how does it work if I wanted to work with you personally? [ALISON] Yes, so what the options are there is we actually have designers that we have developed relationships with that understand healthcare design and then therapy offices. So you can reach out to them through our website and they can do custom work for you. So they can design a layout for you. They can pick all the furniture for you, they can just do a totally custom package, so that would be the option there. [LATOYA] Then how do people get in touch with you or the website or like Instagram, like I found you if they’re like, yoh, let me go take a look at this, I need an office makeover. [ALISON] The website is thera-suite.com, so like hotel suite, s u i t e and then the email, [email protected]. Then I believe that’s the same handle we use for social media, Thera Suite on Instagram and then Pinterest and Facebook. [LATOYA] I’ll bet you Pinterest is a great place to go look at your site too, like all the pieces. [ALISON] It is. That’s actually the most traction that we’ve gotten on social media, so far has been Pinterest. [LATOYA] Yes. Before we wrap up it seems like all your businesses are, they’re organic, but they’re just flow from your passion. Like, you’re not stepping any way out of your lane. [ALISON] Yes, I think that’s a good observation. [LATOYA] Yes. I know we’re about to get off in a second, but if you could just talk about that space. I think a lot of times too, we get caught up in the glitter in the lights instead of just letting things just flow in what you love and letting it develop. You seem to have mastered that in your challenge journey in life, like, this is what’s coming next. So anything else we should be looking out for you or checking for or anything? [ALISON] Well, of course. I’m working on a new business, but I’m trying to learn the lesson of not doing things too quickly and doing my research and sort of letting things unfold organically. For example, when I started the VA company from the time I decided to do it from the time I launched, it was five weeks. [LATOYA] Oh wow. [ALISON] So there was no business plan. You know what I mean? Like, I didn’t, I had no idea what I was doing. I was just like, great, we have one VA. I can make a website, we’ll just launch this into the world and see what happens. That wasn’t the best foundation, like looking back on n it now, hindsight being 2020 wasn’t the best foundation to start a business. So now I’m just trying to be really intentional about like doing my homework, writing a business plan. I’ve been working on this business plan for probably a good six months now and I do research and then I go back and change it. I mean, it’s like I’m not, I’m picking it up and then laying it down because I have other things to work on, but I’m just sort of letting it percolate so then I can feel really confident about the plan that I have once I do want to start it. [LATOYA] Yes, that’s really good. I hear you but we also see this again from 2015, which was not that long ago. But we also see this maturation process of you like, hey, five weeks let’s go. Then like, listen, I’m just going to sit with this and when it’s time I’m going to let it come forth. [ALISON] Yes, I think that’s a big, that was a big hard lesson for me to learn. [LATOYA] Yes, no, it’s good. You’re teaching us and you’re teaching me. I mean that’s something to always say, even in the consulting I do. Hey, when I started my first, when I turn to help people now I remember being in Alison’s Grow A Group Practice a while ago. So man, I think you’re amazing. I think not only with your practice with 46 employees and your second location coming soon or third well, different part of the state, I’ll say that much, coming soon, but also your other business especially TheraSuite, which I think is amazing of the real estate that you’re in. Alison, thank you so much. I appreciate you allowing me to interview you on the podcast that you started but also just to hear more about what you’re doing. And I love the idea of taking your time and letting things grow organically, chasing your passion, but also being challenged by things and not being afraid of that challenge and stepping into it to create something beautiful. So thank you so much and I appreciate you being on here and yes, I’m sure we’ll chat soon. [ALISON] Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, I think you’re doing a wonderful job with the podcast, so thank you for taking it over. [LATOYA] Thank you, ma’am. Thank you once again to Brighter Vision for sponsoring this episode. Remember to head on over to brightervision.com/joe to get your first three months of website service completely free. If you love this podcast, please be sure to rate and review. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.
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