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Are the skills that make you a great therapist quietly undermining your effectiveness as a leader? Can you truly lead others if you don’t yet understand how you respond to conflict, pressure, and accountability yourself? Could the hard conversations you’re avoiding be the very ones that your culture and practice need?
In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok discusses what you don’t know about leadership with Dr. Michelle Perry
Podcast Sponsor: Alma
As a clinician, you probably chose this field because you wanted to support people in navigating challenges and finding personal growth. But many mental health care providers end up spending almost as much time on billing, insurance, and other documentation as you do in sessions with clients.
That’s where Alma can help.
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Learn more about how Alma could support you in building a thriving private practice at helloalma.com/joe.
Meet Dr. Michelle Perry
In This Podcast
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Misconceptions around leadership
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What makes a good leader
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Ways to get to know yourself better
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Traps that leaders can fall into
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Dr. Michelle Perry’s advice to private practitioners
Misconceptions around leadership
One of the classic misconceptions about leadership, especially in private practice settings, is that being a good therapist automatically makes you a good supervisor.
While there are some transferable skills, on the whole, each duty requires something different of the person, and it would be remiss to equate them as the same and expect someone to function well in both.
You know, with leaders, we really have to focus on holding people accountable. We can be compassionate, but compassion and accountability, these things aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s both-and, and how do we blend them really beautifully and creatively? (Dr. Michelle Perry)
Sometimes leaders may need to make unpopular decisions that would serve the practice as a whole, and they will need to stick to it, despite some negative feedback, because one cannot wear the therapist hat and the leadership hat simultaneously.
Those traits as a therapist actually undermine our leadership, and the skills that make us a good therapist are not the same skills that make you a good boss. (Dr. Michelle Perry)
What makes a good leader
Below are Dr. Michelle’s tips on how to cultivate your skills as a great boss and leader:
- You have to know yourself as a leader, even down to your attachment style, because it will give you insight into how you navigate conflict and what drives you
- How you hold boundaries, particularly when the other person struggles with accountability
- Work on your emotional regulation and how to stay calm in crises to lead the team forward
- On a more business note, how everything in your business is interconnected. You will need to understand how it all works, because changing one aspect of the practice may cause a ripple effect through the rest of it
I want them to understand that sometimes what we think is the solution ends up not being the correct one, and we get frustrated and give up and say something’s not fixable, rather than looking at everything as an experiment. (Dr. Michelle Perry)
Ways to get to know yourself better
Dr. Perry’s suggestion is to hire a coach or find a mentor, especially if you are a leader in private practice. Additionally, her bonus tip is to work with someone who has experience outside of the therapy world.
For example, Michelle worked as a civilian in the military for some time, and it taught her valuable lessons that she could carry over into her practice.
I have come to build an appreciation for why our field is just so different compared to other industries and appreciate that difference, but also sometimes recognize that we’ve got some blinders on about the ways that being a therapist sometimes gets in the way of truly helping somebody reach their capacity and their potential. (Dr. Michelle Perry)
Traps that leaders can fall into
While Dr. Michelle Perry will dive deeper into the different traps that leaders can get stuck in during her talk at the Group Practice Boss Conference, here’s a sneak peek for now:
- The rescuer reflex, where leaders overaccommodate for clinicians
- Conflict avoidance
Good culture is built one hard conversation at a time, and there is a way to blend accountability with compassion. Ultimately, when you have clear expectations, you’re gifting [that other person] the opportunity to rise to your standard or to grow and expand their capacity, hit their potential, whereas if you’re too gentle and indirect in your conversations … then they don’t get to meet that potential, and they don’t understand why you’re so frustrated with them. (Dr. Michelle Perry)
Dr. Michelle Perry’s advice to private practitioners
To the aspiring group practice owners, remember that culture is your most valuable asset, and you need to protect it relentlessly!
Sponsors Mentioned in this Episode:
Learn more about how Alma could support you in building a thriving private practice at helloalma.com/joe.
Sign up for the 2026 Group Practice Boss Conference!
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Visit CTSA and connect with Dr. Perry on Facebook and Psychology Today.
Work with us one-on-one!
Sign up for Group Practice Boss!
Check out these additional resources:
- Building Great Lakes Online Counseling Week 13: We’ve Got to Try Something Else for Recruiting | POP 1360
- Practice of the Practice Network
- Group Practice Launch
- Group Practice Boss: www.practiceofthepractice.com/grouppracticeboss $149 a month
- PoP Group Practice Owners Facebook Group
- Free resources to help you start, grow, and scale
- Work with us
- Practice of the Practice Network
Meet Joe Sanok
Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners who are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.
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