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What if most of what we believe about drugs and addiction is incomplete, or simply wrong? Are our drug policies protecting people, or preventing us from thinking critically about substance use? What are the correlations between living conditions and drug use?
In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok discusses why your view of addiction is completely wrong with Dr. Carl Hart | Explicit
Podcast Sponsor: Alma

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Meet Dr. Brad Larsen

Dr. Carl Hart is a neuroscientist, professor of psychology at Columbia University, and one of the world’s leading researchers on drug use and addiction. His work examines the behavioral and neuropharmacological effects of drugs in humans and challenges widely held assumptions about addiction and drug policy. Dr. Hart is the author of High Price: A Neuroscientist’s Journey of Self-Discovery That Challenges Everything You Know About Drugs and Society and Drug Use for Grown-Ups: Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear. Through his research and public writing, he advocates for evidence-based drug policy and a more honest conversation about substance use.
Visit Dr. Hart’s University Website and connect on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
In This Podcast
- What’s wrong with how we view drugs in America
- Damaging myths around drugs and why they persist
- What amplifies drugs for ⅓ of people
- Dr. Carl Hart’s advice to private practitioners
What’s wrong with how we view drugs in America
When we think about drugs in general, in our country, we often times talk about drugs starting with addiction, but the vast majority of people who use drugs don’t have a problem … And it also gets into this issue of who we are as a country. (Dr. Carl Hart)
The United States of America is founded on paper as a country that values freedom, the pursuit of happiness, and bodily autonomy. However, this intention is not consistent with what the reality is like on the ground. Some drugs, apart from nicotine and alcohol, are forbidden and made illegal.
Now, what you’re doing is that you are discouraging thinking. People are no longer thinking: “Why don’t we do that?” for one, and then you have to think through why you are doing this, and it gives you practice with thinking – and you want a society to always have practice with thinking. (Dr. Carl Hart)
Dr. Hart’s point is clear: making certain drugs illegal robs people of the chance to decide for themselves, which ultimately robs them of the chance of actually thinking through their decisions. Cultivating a population that can think is important for the functioning of a healthy and stimulated society.
Damaging myths around drugs and why they persist
While there are people who suffer from substance use disorder and meet the DSM criteria for treatment, there is no evidence that drug addiction is a brain disease.
I understand people like to use that sort of analogy to facilitate comparisons with other brain diseases like Parkinson’s disease, but when you start to actually start to compare other brain diseases to drug addiction, it all falls apart. (Dr. Carl Hart)
For example, people can die from symptoms related to Parkinson’s disorder. Whereas with drug addiction, the vast majority of people can recover once they stop using, without any specific medical treatments.
What amplifies drugs for ⅓ of people
There is a group of people, around ⅓ of drug users, who tend to struggle with addiction more heavily than other casual users. Some of the correlating risk factors may include:
- Young males
- Unemployment
- Uneducated
- Limited skills
However, these are common risk factors for many other issues as well. Remember this: risk factors are not causal. They do not necessarily cause drug use, but they are correlated with many people who do use drugs.
Some risk-taking is good, you need risk-taking, but then risk-taking that overdoes it is not … So, you have these same sort of risk factors: unemployment, limited opportunities … All of these sorts of things are tremendous risk factors. People not invested in society, or now allowed to be invested in society, not being allowed to participate in society … All of those things are risk factors. (Dr. Carl Hart)
Dr. Carl Hart’s advice to private practitioners
Your number one job, as a citizen, is to protect the rights of other people. Now, as a therapist and a clinician, sometimes they get seduced into believing that they know more about someone else’s life. Dr. Hart simply asks you to always question your assumptions.
Sponsors Mentioned in this Episode:
Learn more about how Alma could support you in building a thriving private practice at helloalma.com/joe. Work with us one-on-one!
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Visit Dr. Hart’s University Website and connect on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
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- Managing 130+ Clinicians: Leadership Lessons from Nichiren Buddhism and Gestalt with Dr. Brad Larsen | POP 1351
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- Group Practice Boss: www.practiceofthepractice.com/grouppracticeboss $149 a month
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Meet Joe Sanok

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners who are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.
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