• Visit Mark’s website and connect on YouTube and LinkedIn. See also, The Main Street Business Podcast.

Books mentioned in this episode:

Mark J. Kohler – The Tax & Legal Playbook 

Mark J. Kohler – 8 Steps to Start & Grow Your Business 

Mark J. Kohler – The Business Owners Guide to Financial Freedom

Joe Sanok 00:00:00  Every single phase of private practice has its own unique challenges and its own unique opportunities. Whether you're starting and growing a solo practice, getting a group practice going, whether you're already a group practice boss or you want to go big and go national with the skills you have, every phase has its challenges. And, you know, doing that in community with people and learning from other folks and having that guidance is so, so important. That's why we have a membership community for every phase of practice. Next level practice is for solo practitioners to help you get organized, fill up your practice, and get that solo practice rocking. We have small groups, we have accountability partners. We have live events every single week. And also if in the first three months and the first 90 days, you're not satisfied, we have a 90 day money back guarantee. Next we have group practice launch. Group practice launch is a six month program specifically for you to launch a group practice. We have weekly meetings with that as well as well as guided courses, and you get full access to next level practice, and you're guaranteed to hire someone in the first six months, or you get to go through it again for free.

Joe Sanok 00:01:12  Next we have group practice boss. Group practice boss is for people that have group practices and want to continue to grow. All those ups and downs of having a group practice of changing that mindset, being in community with other people and getting that support from us. We with that as well, have weekly meetings and you get to come to next level practice events as well. So that's eight meetings a month that you could come to live to get extra help. Also, there's a 90 day money back guarantee. Lastly, we have audience building Academy. Audience building Academy is specifically for people that are ready to level up and go national. Maybe you want to get a traditionally published book. I have a podcast launch, some products and courses, and scalable income. Audience building Academy is specifically for you so that you can level up and go national. We'll walk you through exactly how you go from having a solo or a group practice to going national. We'll help you build your email list, get on podcasts, and really level up.

Joe Sanok 00:02:13  So no matter what your phase is, we have a membership community for you over at practice of the practice.com/memberships. You can read all about them and sign up. Go in there and decide which membership phase is for you and join today. Again, that's practice of the practice. Com forward slash memberships.

Joe Sanok 00:02:39  This is the practice of the.

Joe Sanok 00:02:40  Practice podcast with Joe Sarna session number 161. I'm Joe Santa, I'm your host. And welcome to the practice of the Practice Podcast. You know, I've told this story before, but it bears repeating. When I first started my counseling practice, so that would have been 2006. I took a friend of mine who was a CPA out to Panera Bread and said, like, what do I need to know? And he said, well, you got to file an LLC, a PLLC in Michigan, keep track of of what you spend money on from your business account, all these things. And for years, I would keep all of my receipts in a drawer in my desk.

Joe Sanok 00:03:21  And at the end of the year I would add them all up. I would, in fact, one year I even hired someone else to add them all up. because I was sick of going through the hundreds, if not thousands of receipts. this is before I knew about, you know, how QuickBooks could automatically connect with my credit cards and with my bank statements and all that. And I didn't know what I didn't know, but I was so scared of doing it wrong. I didn't have a regular accountant I was meeting with. I didn't have a regular attorney. I was bootstrapping it with this side gig counseling practice. And I still remember the year that I went and I sat down with an accountant and he's like, you should be a PLC filing as an S Corp. And like that first year, I want to say it was like 5 or $10,000 in taxes that I saved on just by not talking to someone that I was just using, you know, one of those softwares where you can buy the home and business and doing it myself, thinking I was being all great in being able to do it myself and not talking to a professional just messed up my game.

Joe Sanok 00:04:19  You know, think about all the extra money I could have had before, that I was just giving away. So today, capping off our even Best Year series all through January, we have been talking about so many interesting issues with the idea that rarely is it a New Year's resolution that changes our life. It's usually small steps in the right direction. It's learning from people that are working on interesting things and being able to say, how could I put a little bit of that into how I'm working? So, for example, back in episode 1152, we talked about writing progress notes with and without AI. Well, we can use AI for progress Notes. Now, what does that look like? we've talked about psychedelic assisted therapy in previous sessions this month. We've talked about, how to go from counseling to coaching large corporations, all these really influential people this month helping us say, let's have an even better year, through this series. And that's why I am so excited about our guests. Today, we have Mark J.

Joe Sanok 00:05:19  Koehler, who is a CPA, senior partner of Chaos Lawyers, co-founder of directed IRA, which is number 391 in Inc's 5000 and bestselling author, has built a career helping American small business owners and entrepreneurs achieve financial success. Mark. Welcome to the practice of the Practice podcast.

Mark Kohler 00:05:41  Joe, thanks for having me. I love your message and I am so honored to be able to speak with your listeners. They're my tribe as well, so I'm so excited to be here, I.

Joe Sanok 00:05:50  Love that, yeah. You know, I think it's so interesting. as I talked to therapists, I have seen a shift where when I first got out of grad school and probably the first 5 to 10 years or so of doing this podcast, it really was like we didn't learn any of this in grad school, and people were just like, starting from scratch. It does seem like in the last couple of years in general, our consulting clients, our members, people coming out of grad school are a little bit more educated than maybe they were, you know, coming out of grad school in the past.

Joe Sanok 00:06:21  tell me a little bit more about what you see in regards to any shifts you're seeing in regards to people looking at tax strategy, access to information, small business. Like what are you seeing shift.

Mark Kohler 00:06:32  Well, the the shift is really, something I've been working on the last two years to change. And that is the accounting industry is really broken in a lot of ways. And some of you coming out of school or you've been in practice for 20 plus years, you've maybe seen this deterioration or have just been frustrated yourself because accountants, the problem is accountants aren't great communicators. They went into accounting to do numbers. They were engineers of numbers, if you will, and they weren't the first ones to jump up and have a conversation with someone, or get proactive or take an aggressive position or this or that. And what's happened is has it gotten worse and worse and worse? And it the baby boomers that are accounts right now are walking away from their practices, they're frustrated, they're burned out. And enrollment in accounting programs across the country are down.

Mark Kohler 00:07:20  Kids see it as a barrier to entry, to go through a master's program, to get a CPA license, this rigorous lifestyle. And it's just got a really bad look. And I think the industry is on fire. I'm running into the building and I'm trying to talk about tax advisory, let I let software help prep the return. But more accounts have got to be having a conversation with their clients. So the shift I'm seeing in summary is many of you are starving for that conversation with an accountant that wants to strategize and advise. And when you find them, they're like gold. And because you're on the same side of the table working together, and that's the shift that's starting to happen. Accountants are figuring out advisory is where it's at, because AI is going to replace them as just preparers. They've got to figure this out and that's what I'm teaching.

Joe Sanok 00:08:08  So let's maybe start with how the average private practice owner is probably thinking about their taxes and their bookkeeping and kind of all that liability. let's start with probably the, the what they're doing wrong.

Joe Sanok 00:08:22  so what do you think the average. So in most of my listeners have under 50 employees or contractors, I would say on average we're looking at 5 to 10 clinicians. you know, maybe an intake coordinator to and then the owner is usually somewhat involved. They may not have a full caseload, but they're still seeing, you know, 15 or 20 clients a week. so that's a typical scenario. What would you say are mindsets or kind of things that it's just like, man, stop doing that.

Mark Kohler 00:08:49  Well, there's never one thing, but let me mention 2 or 3 that might resonate with some of you. The first one is what you talked about, where as a brand new practitioner, you were like afraid of something. Maybe the IRS auditing you or missing something or getting a nasty gram from the IRS. I want to assure people that's not the fear you should have. The fear you should have is you're going to miss a ride off, you're going to miss something, and you're going to pay way too much in tax.

Mark Kohler 00:09:15  That's the fear I'd rather have you worry about. The IRS isn't going to crash through your front door and take your house away or whatever, and if you get a nasty letter, who the hell cares? We deal with it. Let's make sure we're getting all of your write offs and your strategies and and put together. And so if any of you are having that anxiety of bookkeeping or anxiety of or fear of the IRS, let's shift that to being more proactive with better planning and being better organized. That's where the money's at is. And frankly, it's easier to save money than make money. That's the funny thing. and I think other people are looking for that perfect accountant. This is going to solve all this. It's not going to happen, people. You're not going to find this accountant that's just going to take all this off your shoulders. And they're going to be thinking about you all day long by the water cooler and know you have to captain your ship, have regular meetings and know what the general strategies are like.

Mark Kohler 00:10:10  You talked about the S Corporation critical strategy, and way too many accounts are taking too much of payroll, and you're still paying way too much FICA. There's the I swear 80% of the new clients we have are still screwing up their S corporation. So knowing the strategies, having a regular conversation, and not being afraid of the IRS, but being afraid of the missing something and taking that as a as a motivation, I think are some areas that could really benefit some people.

Joe Sanok 00:10:38  Yeah. I want to dig into what would you say the average small business owner is missing when it comes to tax strategy and thinking about, making sure they're taking legal write offs that maybe they're missing?

Mark Kohler 00:10:50  Oh you bet. I'm so glad you asked that. so many people I sometimes in I'm a guest on their show. I'm like, ask the great question. You know.

Joe Sanok 00:10:59  I'm like, I want the nitty gritty. Yeah, give me a freaking write off. I swear.

Mark Kohler 00:11:05  So I love that question. I'm going to rattle off 5 or 6, maybe ten, because again, it's not one thing.

Mark Kohler 00:11:10  Everybody has a different situation. Number one, nailing your S corporation, making sure you're having it. If you make more than $50,000 net, take home five grand or more a month after your expenses, you better be an S corporation then. Number two, not taking too much payroll. I have a payroll matrix. You can Google it. Color payroll matrix. I'll give you guys some resources here to find my writings and books. No one has more information on this than me out there. So we got to nail our S corporation, have it and use it. Right. Number two, are our family members on payroll? If we're gonna have kids under age 18 or kids over age 18, if we're helping them financially, we should have them on our board of advisors, our board of directors. Are we having a PLC should have a board of advisors, your spouse, your kids you're paying them to do janitorial and cleanup and this and that. If you have kids and you're helping them, they should be on the books.

Mark Kohler 00:11:58  They're in a lower tax bracket or no tax bracket at all. Third, you should be doing your family board meeting every year to maintain your entity. So you have good asset protection. And I'm writing off travel dining. Anything to do with the holidays? There should be a board meeting around your holiday travel. HSAs, health savings accounts, health reimbursement arrangements. The you see them in your practice. People use HSAs all the time. Are you using one? Do you have the right type of insurance policy? Medical expenses are the number one cause of bankruptcy, and so many people don't even know how to write them off. then we get into electronics equipment, making sure we're funding the right retirement account. All of you can have a Roth IRA at any income level. Doesn't mean you have to go get a big, expensive 401 K for all your employees. Are we maximizing our savings there? man, the list goes on and on, and it's all year end planning. December 31st. Is the buzzer.

Mark Kohler 00:12:51  Good. Call me in February. I can't help you. It's over. You missed.

Joe Sanok 00:12:55  It. Oh, well, it's too bad this is airing at the end of January. They've got 11 months to work through it, so we'll start the year off right, people? Yes, exactly. Oh, you're going to be an even better year. Well, I want to ask about one thing I keep seeing on TikTok. And so I know that, you know, especially, advice around taxes on TikTok. I'm never going to just take that advice. So, yeah, I'm seeing and it's probably because I've clicked and watch too much. So now the algorithm thinks I really want to know it, but I keep seeing this thing of and I'm not going to explain it well, and maybe you can re-explain it correctly and tell me if it's even worth thinking about. This idea of like a trust owning the LLC, and then the trust is paying for everything and you're not paying hardly any taxes. I actually had someone on the show that I interviewed, did the whole interview, sent it to my accountant and attorney, and they were like, do not air this.

Joe Sanok 00:13:45  Like, this is like, not like they're basically just selling you into this trust management type of thing. Do you know what I'm talking about? This whole, like, use of trust to pay almost no income taxes. Like. Can you explain it better than I did? And then tell me what you think.

Mark Kohler 00:13:59  I've got a really technical term here that will help explain it. scam. Wrong. Bullshit. It's wrong. So,

Joe Sanok 00:14:10  Yeah. All right.

Mark Kohler 00:14:12  There we go. now. And the sad part is, with any tax or legal strategy, it's usually based on a half truth. And then they exploit that. Use fear or some sort of motivating, you know, get rich quick scheme or watch out for this scheme and people buy into it. You know, it's so great to hear this. You know, it's like too good to be true. So so let me say this. Here's the half truth. I want every American to have a revocable living trust. Absolutely young or old, no kids, kids, married, single real estate, own a home.

Mark Kohler 00:14:45  What does not matter. A revocable living trust is your estate plan. It's a legacy all of you business owners should have one. You can use it for privacy. It's there to, leave all of your assets properly to the next generation. We're going to help avoid probate and fights with family. They are absolutely critical. And 50% of Americans don't even have a will. But will that trusts save you taxes? No. Is it going to give you asset protection? No. It's there for your legacy, your estate, your organization and privacy. That trust is going to own your home. It's going to own your LLC. It's going to own your PLC. It's going to own everything. Because when if something happens to you, it all goes to your trust, then some scam artists that's not even a lawyer starts to say, oh yeah, and then you can set up a bank account and run it all through here and write this off and blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're full of crap and they've exploited it.

Mark Kohler 00:15:36  And if you do an irrevocable trust and start filing a 1041, oh my gosh, the cost of it just goes through the roof. But they make money and you think you're in some land of promise and you're not. So be careful.

Joe Sanok 00:15:48  Okay. Thank you. I always like hearing those things and then running it by an expert and then being like, nope, I don't have to even think about that, because I think that taps into some of this. Like, oh, did I miss something? Like when I heard about the S Corp, I was like, this sounds like a scam. Why doesn't everybody do this? And then it's like, as you dig into it, you're like, oh, like most smart business people are doing it. Oh, and so it's like, I've missed things like that before. And then it's like, oh man, what if I had spent a decade not doing this trust thing that I saw on TikTok? So okay, good to know scam. But you.

Mark Kohler 00:16:18  Know what? You did well though. And everybody follow Joe's process. He heard something and he investigated it. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that's great. You hear something on TikTok, a Instagram reel. You're at a workshop and someone says, oh, you should have a C Corp and write off your home. Really sounds pretty cool. But let me look into that. Oh crap. But you look into it. That's why people, you've got to captain your own ship. It's okay. You start consuming some tax and legal. It's fun. Rich people do this. Successful people love to tax plan. Its fun and change your mindset. I know that sounds crazy tax planning fun, but that's saving money. You know at the mall. Keep that receipt. Show everybody how much you saved.

Joe Sanok 00:17:00  No Mark, I'm with you. I actually do find tax planning fun because it's like, I don't want to pay anything more than what I'm supposed to. And like the government's tax code incentivizes certain industries different than other ones.

Joe Sanok 00:17:13  And so it's like, you know, I just bought a multi-family home. two weeks ago, I closed on it. good man. So, so I'm and I also already have like a Airbnb. that's like a slower market because of just what's happened in Northern Michigan. There's been pure saturation. So, but it's a multifamily. It has three units and has renters that have been in there three years. They're all just like amazing people. I brought them pies after I closed on it and met them all. and they're like, hey, can we help with the leaves? Can we help with this? And, it's a great situation overall, but like, I'm working with my accountant to say, okay, what does that look like from a tax standpoint. So I'm repaying debt. Do I have to pay taxes on all these different things? And it's like I'll see articles or I'll listen to a podcast on real estate, you know, investments, and I'll make a list of different things for when I have my meeting with my accountant, and saying, okay, so this is something I read.

Joe Sanok 00:18:05  This is something I read. Is this true for my situation? So I'm coming to the table saying, I don't know if this is true or worth it, but like, could I do this? And then he's just like, oh yeah, I know what that is. There have been times when he's like, I don't even I've not even heard of that. He looks into it and he's like, oh, we can totally do that with your estate. And so it's I love what you're saying to say, like, don't just trust your accountant to figure it all out for you. you've got to, like, kind of do some of that research as well.

Mark Kohler 00:18:29  Yeah. And the scary part here is you've got a really unique accountant, because how many of you listening have taken an idea to your accountant, enrolled agent, CPA, whoever, and they're like, oh, you can't do that. And they're protected because they didn't come to you with the idea. So you bring in an idea that they don't know about makes them look bad.

Mark Kohler 00:18:48  So their first reaction is oh yea, that's high risk. You can't do that. And then deep down they're like, Holy crap, let's look into that. Maybe we should be doing that. And then it is so screwed up. The mentality of the accountant that thinks they know it all and I'm a CPA. You CPA is out there, you know what I'm saying? So back off. Just but but what what we're looking for everyone is that tax advisor status. Someone that's holding themselves out is not just a preparer, but they're willing to advise you and meet quarterly or semi-annual. And before we get off the show, I will give you all a resource where you can go, interview, research, find them. I don't make money on that network. I'm building an army around the country of tax advisors because I know how hard it is to find them. And, but that's our goal. We got to find somebody that's on the same side of the table as us that wants to roll up their sleeves and get creative.

Joe Sanok 00:20:05  I am so excited about alma. When I had my private practice, I struggled building my caseload, attracting the right clients, managing the business side. And honestly, one of the reasons I didn't take insurance was it was so difficult to navigate. So many of my consulting clients deal with these problems as well, and almost supports clinicians in building rewarding private practices with simplified insurance credentialing in under 45 days, enhanced reimbursement rates, and guaranteed two week payback, plus a free profile in their searchable Fillable Directory. Making it easy for clients who are the right fit for your practice to find you. Learn more about how alma could support your private practice at. Hello, alma. Com forward slash Jo. That's. Hello alma.com/jo to learn more. Now, when people start to grow, and I, just interviewed, earlier in the month, an employment attorney, that was talking about kind of adding to your team. so when we think about best practices of starting to add 1099 or W-2s, back in episode 1151. So that came out January 8th.

Joe Sanok 00:21:20  so just a couple of weeks ago, John talked about, you know, really classifying people properly. So I would definitely say that's a good kind of concurrent issue or, episode with today's as well. What should people think about as they're expanding their team? Like what what kind of tax IDs? What kind of like just keeping their liability lower? Like, what do they need to think about?

Mark Kohler 00:21:42  Well, so much. And I love talking about scaling and onboarding. I have my own podcast, the Main Street Business Podcast, and a two events a year semi-annual events where we talk about business, tax, legal, and growing your business. So this is your and your accountant should know this something you're like, well, you're an accountant. You shouldn't know. No, this is what accountants do. They talk to their clients about all their issues. You go into your banker. I mean, you're what? Your lawyer is going to help you with this. Your accountant, your tax advisors, your best resource when you are scaling up and leveling up and having these conversations so well, if you've already had a podcast on the definition between a subcontractor and employee, absolutely critical people go listen to that.

Mark Kohler 00:22:24  It's, states are really screwing, you know, going hard on this, putting down the screws on people that think they're a subcontractor relationship. And so they 1099 people because they don't want a W-2. The penalties for that, it is not fun. So if they look like a duck, walk like a duck, quack like it's a duck, don't try to make him a subcontractor when they're not. The other thing I would just want to say quickly, Joe, is when you're scaling and bringing on employees. There is a so many important steps along the way, creating the proper job description and SOP before you even interview, making sure that you're you're attracting the right candidate. And then in that meeting and in that interview and stages of interviews, going through the SOPs and really understanding if they are going to be able to accomplish what you're asking them to. And then the minute you hire them, that ongoing support and training that should be intense in the first 6 to 8 weeks, we call it that first hundred days, making sure they're getting reviews and support.

Mark Kohler 00:23:26  The number one reason employees leave a job is because they're a direct supervisor, and making sure we have the right culture. That would be the third piece here is the right culture and leadership with your team, because if you're scaling a practice, you can't do it all. You're going to have a layer of management in there. How are your managers treating your employees, how are you treating your managers? And it comes from the top down culture, relationships, training, support. It's so expensive to onboard someone and train them. Oh my hell, you just can't burn through these people. Take the time to do it right so that you don't have to be back in the recruiting and hiring phase three months from now.

Joe Sanok 00:24:06  Yeah, absolutely. what are the opportunities that you're seeing for successful small businesses. So like what are the things that maybe would be things even beyond just the tax planning or you know, the most amount of write offs like like what else can can people be doing to optimize their tax situation.

Mark Kohler 00:24:25  Okay. I'm not going to go too well. Okay. Well you said not tax. And then you said optimize their taxes. So let me say yeah.

Joe Sanok 00:24:30  No you answer it however you want to.

Mark Kohler 00:24:35  Two part question there. First I want to tell her but we've obviously already been beaten up. The tax issue the legal structure. Make sure you're organized, find the right advisor, do regular planning, blah blah blah. And there's so much money on the table, people. And it's it does not have to be laborious, painful, boring. You can do this. Now, I love your question, Joe. What else am I seeing? See, I've done my 10,000 consults or more. I've been in this for 25 years. I have met with over 10,000 small business owners. And what do you think I see? I see patterns, I see patterns of success, patterns of failure. And what are they doing to make money or lose money? I see some clients. I'm like, don't do that.

Mark Kohler 00:25:13  Other clients, I'm like, okay. But they turned to their account because that's the one person they meet with every year. And we're tax lawyers. We have a law firm and accounting accounting network. And then our trust companies, we're meeting with them in multiple ways. But here's what I want to say on this point is when you're trying to scale and what opportunities are out there, it's finding additional sources of revenue. And more than ever in our amazing society and economy, We have the internet, we've got social media, we've got Etsy, we've got Upwork, we've got eBay, we've got thumbtack, we've got this, we got that. And finding product or education or training that you can sell online in the middle of the night. And this is the age old professional practice problem. You know, dentists hate this. Lawyers hate it. Doctors hate it when if you're our therapist, we all hate this, right? It's hourly work. Either we're making money. If we're not there, we're not making money.

Mark Kohler 00:26:16  We have got to find additional revenue sources where we can make money when we're sleeping. And that is so, more than ever possible with good website planning, digital marketing, educational training, products. And it's exciting. And when you can find those additional revenue sources, I've had therapists even walk away from the practice because they're making more Online. And so there is so much opportunity there. So reach out and put more irons in the fire.

Joe Sanok 00:26:50  I love that. And you know, we see that all the time with people optimizing their practices in a few different areas. I actually just right before you was doing a webinar with a partner, that was all about, you know, just not only filling your practice, but what we often call the sandwich approach. So it's like, what are the things that before people are ready for therapy that you could sell. So it could be a $9 digital download for how to make your dates better. It could be an e-course on improving couples sex life. It could be, you know, a five part series on how to handle tantrums with five year olds.

Joe Sanok 00:27:25  Like, like, what are those things before they're ready? What do I buy it?

Mark Kohler 00:27:28  I marry exactly.

Joe Sanok 00:27:29  Yeah. And then you've.

Joe Sanok 00:27:30  Got the therapy, which is the main part of the sandwich. But then afterwards, like, so you have this couple graduate from therapy. Do you do a quarterly check in, do you have retreats? Do you have like a, you know, couples that want a stronger partnership. you know, group that you lead and it's like, well curated, like for couples. And, I mean, there's so many ways that people do this, but then it's like, how do we then level up into that passive income and creating, you know, membership communities for these things? Like we have a consulting client, that she has one of the top autism assessment practices in the nation. I think they cover 39 states or something like that. And she realized that they have all these people they've done autism assessments on that aren't doing ongoing counseling, but they want support from therapists, but not as therapy.

Joe Sanok 00:28:12  And so they've launched this online community that people are paying 20, 30 bucks a month to be a part of. and it's as easy to run it for 100 people as it is to run it for ten people, as it is to run it for 500 people. So it has that scalability.

Mark Kohler 00:28:27  Yeah, totally. And I know let's think of a stop smoking program. Stop porn programs, stop this program. I mean, so many different, books, videos and training support classes that you can teach and duplicate yourself with recordings and doing it in the middle night. But I know, here's the problem. Here's the problem. I know many of you listening like that sounds great, Joe. That sounds great, Mark. But I don't have the technical skill. This is where the thumbtack and the Upwork and the a, expanding your horizons a little bit, bringing on a subcontractor that's part time. Maybe they're a local tech college type student, and you come in and go, I want to build an online program.

Mark Kohler 00:29:10  I want to have a membership site. I want to do this. Tell me how to do it. They have the APIs. They have the software, they have the plugins. They can help you build the right website for this. And you might invest 5 or 10 grand or two to whatever. Get multiple quotes. Be careful. You can get taken advantage out there, but start learning about how to build a membership site and start recording. You got to get comfortable in front of a camera. You're going to have to build a little studio, maybe, but it's okay. Just take baby steps and pretty soon, a year from now, you're selling something online. So it's doable.

Joe Sanok 00:29:43  Yeah. And I think that what I'm seeing in Mark as a podcast, you might see this too, that the guests, that are more and more attractive are the actual experts. Like for years podcasting had a bunch of armchair experts that were talking about how they cured depression with with walking or cured depression with this essential oil or whatever, you know, and it's like, wait, you have no degree.

Joe Sanok 00:30:06  You aren't a scientist at all. And you're saying that this is some magic here. And it seems like those that are experts already and licensed have such an advantage over all these armchair experts. And I think that's why we see so many Instagram influencers just blowing up that are licensed therapist, licensed doctor, doctorate level psychologist, that people want that level of expertise to parse out. Kind of the people that are just speaking from their own experience.

Mark Kohler 00:30:32  Totally. And and there are so many avenues there to really market yourself, even moving more into coaching and training and everything you talked about earlier. But on that note, dang, I was going to say is your, looking for dang. And it was right on the tip of my tongue. For those people out there that are, going into these areas anyway, let's keep rolling. Sorry.

Joe Sanok 00:30:59  Yeah. No. No. Good. No.

Mark Kohler 00:31:01  We're live and uncut.

Joe Sanok 00:31:02  So I can just. Yeah. We're moving forward. You were.

Joe Sanok 00:31:05  You were just so fully present that you weren't thinking about what you're going to say next.

Joe Sanok 00:31:09  You were letting me talk, and you are fully absorbing it, that's all.

Joe Sanok 00:31:12  So I lose.

Joe Sanok 00:31:14  Whenever I lose my train of thought, I'm like, yeah, it was just I.

Joe Sanok 00:31:16  Got it, I got it, I.

Mark Kohler 00:31:17  Remember now it's this. You were just talking about being the expert. So all of you therapists out there, can I just say, write a freaking book? Write an e-book? It's not that hard. Again, you can get support on Upwork and all the, you know, subcontractor sites out there with freelancers that'll help you ghostwrite design a cover. But Amazon makes it so easy with KDP publishing. To get something going, you can sell the damn book, but it just creates credibility. And when you can hold yourself out as an expert doing your own newsletter, your own little podcast for your members only, or a Facebook group, or alive on a closed group or this book thing or whatever. The more you can do that, then you're going to escalate your influence.

Mark Kohler 00:32:01  When you do go balls to the wall on social media. And so you can do this. You have the credibility, the credentials. Now just build on it.

Joe Sanok 00:32:09  Yeah, totally. Well, Mark, I feel like there's so much we could cover. you've just given us so much to start with here. the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening, what would you want them to know?

Mark Kohler 00:32:24  Well, I'm going to go back to my core mission and passion, and that is this business, tax and legal foundation that really unlocks your ability to succeed. And let me frame it this way everyone, you've got your business, your your product, your service, your great therapist, your great educator, you're a great something. You've got your your core value proposition. Then if you turn to the side a little bit, you've got to run this as a business. And you didn't go to school to be a business owner. You may not be a great business owner, but guess what? You got to embrace that issue and captain your ship.

Mark Kohler 00:33:08  Start learning in the areas where you're weak. Bring on the right support. Ask lots of questions. Just like Joe was saying, hey, you heard about a strategy. Let's let's figure it out. Let's find out if it's real and not be jumping at the first thing that's shiny and pretty, you know, and, and so I, I would challenge all of you to take a little time to work on the business, not in it. And, and be the captain of your ship, knowing the strategies and where you want the ship to go and, and then delegate the duties that are more specific, obviously that you know, you're going to need someone that's a technician to implement them, but you know, where you're headed and where and why. And I think so many people just put their head down and hope that's going to work itself out. But the real successful people take time there.

Joe Sanok 00:34:02  So awesome. Well, if people want to connect with you, if they want to get your books, listen to your podcast.

Joe Sanok 00:34:07  Where should we send them?

Mark Kohler 00:34:09  Oh, thank you so much. Well, my primary website is Mark J. Dot com super simple Mark J's and jolly.com. You can get to the law firm from there. And at the top is the Tax Pro network. And I think we've got over 300 people that are because they can turn on or off their their profile. There's kind of like a LinkedIn profile of accountants around the country, young and old, male and female, speak Spanish. No real estate, no this. Know that you can toggle it and find the right adviser and interview them. Don't feel like they have to be down the street, but find someone in that advisory group. And if you're a budding tax advisor or an accountant or an agent, a CPA, please sign up for a demo and see what we have. We know your pain points, and we know we can solve them and help you make more money, have better clients, and serve clients that are really going to respect you and need you.

Mark Kohler 00:35:02  And, but it's all there in my podcast. You can find it there. My blog articles, my books, blah blah blah. I hope some of you will put me as a regular, source for this tax and legal topic until you find someone better. But you got it. You got to have it somewhere, people. So hopefully I can be that source.

Joe Sanok 00:35:21  So awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the practice of the Practice podcast.

Mark Kohler 00:35:26  Oh, thanks for having me, Joe, I loved it.

Joe Sanok 00:35:36  We covered some ground today. So, take some action. this wraps up our whole series for this month of the Even Better Year series. Next month is marketing month. So we are talking marketing all month long. When we did our 2024 State of Private Practice survey with you, with our membership community, with our online followers. Marketing was the number one thing that people were saying. We don't know what to do. It's a sticking point that we need some help. So we are spending an entire month thinking about marketing, going deep on specific issues, going broad on other issues.

Joe Sanok 00:36:13  You're definitely going to want to check out Marketing Month that's coming up next. we've got a lot coming up here. also, we have a new partnership with session sites, which is a website designer session sites, dot com slash Joe. They're going to build your website in 14 days. That's not a sponsor. It's just wanted to let you know about that. because we have that coming up to session sites.com for slash Joe. They'll build your website in 14 days. And you know what? We couldn't do this without our sponsors. Our sponsor for today is alma. Alma is the very best way for you to get quickly credentialed. If you are trying to get onto insurances, they will get you credentialed in under 45 days that you better reimbursement rates in a guaranteed two week turnaround payback. It's awesome. It's what I wish I would have had when I had my private practice. Head on over to hello alma com slash Joe again. That's hello al McCombs. Joe, thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain.

Joe Sanok 00:37:10  Have a great day. I'll talk to you soon. Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for that intro music, and this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the producers, the publishers or guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.